Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 01/30/06


Total Messages Posted: 22



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:09 AM - Re: Pietenpol logo....... (Glenn Thomas)
     2. 06:33 AM - pictures of Corvair Piet (Oscar Zuniga)
     3. 06:36 AM - Re: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally" (Bill Church)
     4. 08:38 AM - Hat Mania! (Steve Eldredge)
     5. 10:33 AM - A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation (Michael D Cuy)
     6. 10:39 AM - Re: Pietenpol logo....... (Kenneth M. Heide)
     7. 10:49 AM - Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation (Phillips, Jack)
     8. 11:04 AM - Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation (Michael D Cuy)
     9. 11:10 AM - Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation (Carl Vought)
    10. 11:56 AM - Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation. (Gary Gower)
    11. 12:02 PM - Time estimates (Jan and Sam Marinucci)
    12. 12:25 PM - Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation (Scott S.)
    13. 12:29 PM - Sam M. (Michael D Cuy)
    14. 12:32 PM - Re: Time estimates (Hans Vander Voort)
    15. 01:52 PM - Progress? (ANNCARLEK@aol.com)
    16. 02:38 PM - time to build (walt evans)
    17. 04:02 PM - Re: piet for sale again (James)
    18. 05:27 PM - Re: fuel tank (Tom Stinemetze)
    19. 05:41 PM - Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation (Catdesign)
    20. 07:23 PM - Re: Progress? (DOUGLAS BLACKBURN)
    21. 09:18 PM - [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
    22. 09:19 PM - Re: pictures of Corvair Piet (Rcaprd@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:09:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo.......
    From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> Same here. If you'd let a couple go before Brodhead I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8082#8082


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:33:17 AM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: pictures of Corvair Piet
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> There are a couple of pictures of Bernard Pietenpol and his "last original", Corvair-powered Piet, on the photoshare at http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/grhans@cable-lynx.net.12.29.2006/index.html The oldest application of the Corvair aero conversion is in the Pietenpol airframe... 40 years, I believe. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:36:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Fred and others, For quite some time, attachments have been available to those list members who are registered for "real time" postings. Those who opted for the "digest" version missed out on the attachments. But just recently, the matronics lists have a new feature - the BBS Web Forum. it's basically the same as the old List, but it is in a slightly different format, and it allows attachments to be viewed by all. You can access this format here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3D7&sid=3D2ed4da73b54366540c0d90 5c0d06a3a6 Of course, it's nice to have photos submitted to photoshare, because they are all stored in one location - easier to go back and find a photo later. Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TBYH@aol.com Sent: January 29, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally" I can't see the pictures of Bernard that were mentioned -- how do I access them? Fred B. La Crosse, WI


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:38:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Hat Mania!
    From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu> Well not really, but some of you asked, so forgive the blatant spam... If you would like a new hat before Brodhead 2006, specify the color, Black, Green, Red, or Gold Include your check for $20 and return address to: Steve Eldredge 2810 E Canyon Rd Spanish Fork, UT 84660 And I'll have it too you ASAP! These are the 75th Pietenpol Anniversary Edition. (cool gold thread included) I'll take any questions offline @ Steve@byu.edu Thanks, Stevee PS Chuck G... I'll take you up on your swap hat for video offer! Send me your address to me and I'll drop another in the mail to you! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol logo....... --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> Same here. If you'd let a couple go before Brodhead I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8082#8082


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:33:14 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
    Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:39:21 AM PST US
    From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Pietenpol logo.......
    Steve, I would be interested in the purchase of a few caps...Can you list the mailing address to send a check. Thanks, Ken Heide Fargo, ND Steve Eldredge <steve@byu.edu> wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I modified one that I saw years ago by Frank Pavliga originally ( I think) I had it digitized so I could have it embroidered on baseball caps. See attached pictue. I also painted it on the side of my plane with a swoosh stripe. Steve E PS I still have hats for sale $20 shipped. I hope to make it to Brodhead this year and sell the rest. The plan is to fly the stinson and the pietenpol look for the big E on the tails! Stevee --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth M. Heide Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo....... Fellow Pieter's Another perplexing comment from the village idiot.............. Has there been a logo designed for the pietenpol besides just the name? Seems to me that several aircraft decals can be purchased from various aircraft suppliers. So hence the question....do we as pietenpoler's have a designed logo? Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- ---------------------------------


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:49:53 AM PST US
    Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
    Good observations Mike, I would say my experience mirrors yours. My project took considerably longer than yours (8 years, although for 2 years I never touched the Piet while I designed and built my house). Eventually I just accepted that whatever timeframe I thought I could hit, I multiplied it by 2 and it was always pretty close. Even after a forced landing damaged the plane considerably, I made an estimate of 8 months of work to get it flying again because I really thought I could do it in 4 months. It took 8 months. The biggest source of frustration for me was having to remake a part when my first attempt didn't come out right. Eventually I came to expect it and began ordering about half again as much material as I needed (that was a big source of frustration - I would order enough material to make a part, then screw it up and have to wait while more material came in. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty must have loved me). Just chalk up such experiences to education and enjoy the process. I'm going to start building a kit plane this fall. It will be interesting to see how a kit progresses compared to the real challenge of scratchbuilding. I'm estimating about 4 years to finish the airplane. I wonder if it will really take 8 years again? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:04:09 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Jack's post is very sound about having to order more materials after botching a job on the first set of materials. The encouraging news is that as you get better and better at making steel fittings, stack drilling parts, bending, filing, and welding, I found that my scrap rate went down to nearly zero as time passed. When trying to learn the daunting task (or so it seemed to me at the time) of fabric covering, rib stitching, and finishing, I asked a very good friend and WWII veteran at the airport "how long will it take before I'm good at this ?" and he told me that I'd be really good at fabric work about the time the fabric work is completed ! Mike C.


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:10:52 AM PST US
    From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
    Subject: Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
    We retirees have a solution to this...Don't bother to estimate!..Just keep on keepinon....Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:56:05 AM PST US
    From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
    Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation.
    Hello Jack, I will give my point of view, I just finished a kit plane a few months ago, The time (hours to build) the kit seller estimates in his advertisement has to be multipied: By 3. If you are really good in building, multiply by 2. If you want a "show winner" plane by 4 or 5! If you are lucky to have a hard working helper(s), his hours helping will count as such (your hours by 2) If he keeps talking (and both drink beer) divide YOUR single hours in half :-) Just one advise: The few mistakes we made when building our kit, were because "that step" looked so simple that we screw it, Double check the instructions, plans and messurements before the final cut, or drill or rivet or glue (depend in type of construction you are doing). In some kits plans you have enough info to build the spare part, in some others you need to order a new part and this takes some time... Good luck and lots of patience Saludos Gary Gower. "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote: Good observations Mike, I would say my experience mirrors yours. My project took considerably longer than yours (8 years, although for 2 years I never touched the Piet while I designed and built my house). Eventually I just accepted that whatever timeframe I thought I could hit, I multiplied it by 2 and it was always pretty close. Even after a forced landing damaged the plane considerably, I made an estimate of 8 months of work to get it flying again because I really thought I could do it in 4 months. It took 8 months. The biggest source of frustration for me was having to remake a part when my first attempt didnt come out right. Eventually I came to expect it and began ordering about half again as much material as I needed (that was a big source of frustration - I would order enough material to make a part, then screw it up and have to wait while more material came in. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty must have loved me). Just chalk up such experiences to education and enjoy the process. Im going to start building a kit plane this fall. It will be interesting to see how a kit progresses compared to the real challenge of scratchbuilding. Im estimating about 4 years to finish the airplane. I wonder if it will really take 8 years again? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike --------------------------------- Bring words and photos together (easily) with


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:02:49 PM PST US
    From: "Jan and Sam Marinucci" <jansam@comcast.net>
    Subject: Time estimates
    Mike, You're absolutely right about the time it takes to fabricate a part. I went through enough steel for three Air Campers. This Piet project was supposed to take 3 years....Boy was I wrong! I'm in my 5th year now and still probably have 2 years left on it. At least I hope I can complete it in 2 years and fly it to Brodhead. My patient and very understanding wife still keeps asking me when will it be finished and my stock answer still is "3 more years, Honey". Sam Marinucci N115SM (reserved number)


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:25:22 PM PST US
    From: "Scott S." <covertspecialops@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
    I think it's because time estimates don't include things like moving the car so you'll have room to reposition the fuselage, or moving the riding mower with a dead battery so you can then move the car so you can then move the fuse so it'll be closer to your tool box which contains every drill size known to man...except for the one you lost and are having to take a trip to Lowe's for. It's all that kinda crap that frustrates me on projects, where simply drilling a hole or gluing a part becomes twelve distinct steps totally unrelated to the task at hand. Scott in TN On 1/30/06, Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy < > Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > Jack's post is very sound about having to order more materials after > botching a job on the first set of materials. > > The encouraging news is that as you get better and better at making steel > fittings, stack drilling parts, bending, filing, > and welding, I found that my scrap rate went down to nearly zero as time > passed. > > When trying to learn the daunting task (or so it seemed to me at the time) > of fabric covering, rib stitching, and finishing, > I asked a very good friend and WWII veteran at the airport "how long will > it take before I'm good at this ?" and he told > me that I'd be really good at fabric work about the time the fabric work > is > completed ! > > Mike C. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:29:24 PM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Sam M.
    Hello Sam ! Good to hear that you are still plugging away and that your wife is very supportive. (and that you are still on the list !) It was good to see you a few years ago when you and your wife stopped out to see my Pietenpol in Valley City. I'm now at a really fancy airport about 3 miles to the north that actually has a paved runway, lights, and a credit card gas pump. I mean they have a sit down indoor-plumbed toilet and sink in the office area too ! Nice to see that Sabreliner jet instructors like you still have a passion for open cockpit low and slow wooden aero machines ! Mike C. do not archive


    Message 14


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    Time: 12:32:20 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Time estimates
    From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> The second greatest thrill known to man is flying. Landing is the first. The above is 10 fold in your own home build Pietenpol, no matter how long it takes to build. Building and flying your own airplane is a privilege only known to very few. Even in the current EAA only a small percentage of it's members have achieved this. Don't get discouraged about how long it takes, enjoy the experience, become part of the few. Hans


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:52:58 PM PST US
    From: ANNCARLEK@aol.com
    Subject: Progress?
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com Well, today marks the first day of my fifth year of building Pietra. And she's coming along all right. It was easy and quick to build the fuse and the tailfeathers. Others have reported that it took them a year and a half to build t he wings. I'm retired, can spend a lot ot time on t he project, but even so, I have to confirm that it takes at least a year and a half to build the wings! I went to William Wynne's seminar at Hanford, CA last year. I thought that it was very worthwhile.and I do have a Corvair engine ready for installation and the final details, such as intake manifold, exhaust piping, etc. I'm planning on using a single Bing carburetor, a take-off from a Jabiru 3300. The woodwork is all done, except for fasteners, etc. for the hardware.Bernard's hinges turned out to be a real problem for me, I made several sets, and did end up wit h a pretty good set, but decided to build a set of U pieces that didn't require any welding. I used piano hinges for the ailerons. If I were starting to build again, I'd use these for the tail feathers too. I used good Fir and AS&S Basswood plywood, and weight hasn't been an issue. The fuse is 71 lbs, tailfeathers are 14pounds, spars are 10 pounds each, and all the ribs for one wing come in at only 5 pounds. I used full dimensions throughout, but would reduce thicknesses a little if I did another one. I've got the controls to do, then the covering. I do believe that Pietra could be flying this summer, but I'm not a flyer, so there's no real incentive to go faster. I love the airport environment, and the hangar, and with the big door open, I can see the snow-capped mountains in behind the approach to LAX. The big news here is that the county has paid for a big pile of ballistic shielding materials which we are putting up around the hangar to protect us from all the bullets fflying around(43 holes!). See you all at Brodhead, Carl Lekven, Compton Airport, CA


    Message 16


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    Time: 02:38:38 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: time to build
    I so enjoyed building my Piet because I never guesstimated how long a task would take. Worked on it nearly every day. Some days just didn't feel like it,,,so I didn't. Really enjoyed the rainy or snowy days where you were locked in your shop doing the thing that you loved best. Never had a clock in the shop. Never punched a clock in the shop. Never logged my hours in a building log in the shop. never forget the saying..... "Build to build, Don't build to fly" A friend of mine, Bob Cook, who built the most beautiful Fisher Celebrity <sp> you've ever seen, said that he took the time to do a special paint scheme on his plane,,,even though it took an additional year! That set my head straight as far as building. He's the one who got me into building wooden airplanes. My second project was a Pietenpol. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL


    Message 17


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    Time: 04:02:03 PM PST US
    From: "James" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
    Subject: piet for sale again
    Hi Carl, Is this plane still for sale? I would be MOST interested in it. $3,500.00 is all? Why so cheap? Please let me know all the specifics. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:19 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Pietenpol-List: piet for sale again Greetings All, It's been a while since I have posted, although I still love reading the posts all of you put in here. Last year, because of my health, I decided to try to sell my piet project. I put it on Ebay and got a buyer but he backed out after the auction was over. This left me mixed feelings, great I still have it and POed because he blew others off that were bidding also. Anyway, I have decided again that as much as I want to finish it and fly it, I'm not physically capable anymore of doing that. So, I have decided to ask in here first if anyone is looking for a project that needs work,( been in the hanger for two years now) and looking rough, but it has a good corvair on it with prop, all instruments, horrible paint job, but has great potential to give someone a great finishing project and years of fun flying. I will have to dig out some pics of it, but some old pics of when I was building it can be found here, http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage1.html I am asking 3500$ for it. The buyer will have to go and pull the wings and trailer it home. I would rather see it bought here than on ebay so I will wait a while before going that route. It is currently hangered at Betz airfield, Blissfield Michigan... about 30miles nw of Toledo, OH. Take care all Carl Loar


    Message 18


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    Time: 05:27:50 PM PST US
    From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: fuel tank
    > My question is.....who out their is building wing tanks for sale in our piets? >Or...is there a place where one can order one specific for the piet? Are >other members adding extra fuel tanks more extended flight? if so describe and >inform if you would please. If you are interested, my center section wing tank is nearing completion as we speak (er - write.) I am doing a fiberglass tank with internal baffles, flush mounted filler cap and electric (universal type) fuel level sender. So as to save time on this list, you may view it on my builder's log at http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas ____ | ____ \8/ / \


    Message 19


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    Time: 05:41:29 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
    Don't forget Steve Eldrege built his in two years, is still is married and has lots young kids... It can be done just not by me 5 years into my 3 year project................. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:23:03 PM PST US
    From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Progress?
    Hey Carl, Glad to hear of your progress. I like many others have many family issues that have precluded my starting on the Piet. I have been lurking for about three/four years or so. Sometimes, this is one of the few good things that come my way just reading how everyone is doing. MY garage is only lacking the countertops, and the cabinets need finish painting. Other then that, I have all the wood in the rafters, a Corvair tore down, and just need the metal as far as parts go to make all the brackets. I have a wife that is disabled from back problems/surgeries, but I have the hope of you who have gone before me, to assure me I will accomplish this one day. Keep up the posts. For those of you that don't know Carl, he has probably forgotten more about planes then most of us will ever learn about them. Good job Carl, I'll try and get up to Compton in late February. When is the next meeting for your club? Doug Blackburn Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn Yucaipa California www.inlandsloperebels.com<http://www.inlandsloperebels.com/> AMA #3761 W.W. conversion manual, #3202,#5782 www.flycorvair.com<http://www.flycorvair.com/> ----- Original Message ----- From: ANNCARLEK@aol.com<mailto:ANNCARLEK@aol.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: ANNCARLEK@aol.com<mailto:ANNCARLEK@aol.com> Well, today marks the first day of my fifth year of building Pietra. And she's coming along all right. It was easy and quick to build the fuse and the tailfeathers. Others have reported that it took them a year and a half to build t he wings. I'm retired, can spend a lot ot time on t he project, but even so, I have to confirm that it takes at least a year and a half to build the wings! I went to William Wynne's seminar at Hanford, CA last year. I thought that it was very worthwhile.and I do have a Corvair engine ready for installation and the final details, such as intake manifold, exhaust piping, etc. I'm planning on using a single Bing carburetor, a take-off from a Jabiru 3300. The woodwork is all done, except for fasteners, etc. for the hardware.Bernard's hinges turned out to be a real problem for me, I made several sets, and did end up wit h a pretty good set, but decided to build a set of U pieces that didn't require any welding. I used piano hinges for the ailerons. If I were starting to build again, I'd use these for the tail feathers too. I used good Fir and AS&S Basswood plywood, and weight hasn't been an issue. The fuse is 71 lbs, tailfeathers are 14pounds, spars are 10 pounds each, and all the ribs for one wing come in at only 5 pounds. I used full dimensions throughout, but would reduce thicknesses a little if I did another one. I've got the controls to do, then the covering. I do believe that Pietra could be flying this summer, but I'm not a flyer, so there's no real incentive to go faster. I love the airport environment, and the hangar, and with the big door open, I can see the snow-capped mountains in behind the approach to LAX. The big news here is that the county has paid for a big pile of ballistic shielding materials which we are putting up around the hangar to protect us from all the bullets fflying around(43 holes!). See you all at Brodhead, Carl Lekven, Compton Airport, CA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:18:07 PM PST US
    Subject: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
    From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com> A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jack Phillips <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Wire Wheels http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com.01.30.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:19:03 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: pictures of Corvair Piet
    In a message dated 1/30/2006 8:34:59 AM Central Standard Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: The oldest application of the Corvair aero conversion is in the Pietenpol airframe... 40 years, I believe. The oldest application of the Ford Model A Engine aero conversion is the Pietenpol airframe...77 years ago, I believe. The Grandpappy of Homebuilt Aviation !! Chuck G. NX770CG




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