---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/07/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:02 AM - when is Brodhead this year? (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: CAD programs (Jim Markle) 3. 06:29 AM - Brodhead Dates (Michael D Cuy) 4. 06:31 AM - Re: when is Brodhead this year? (Egan, John) 5. 06:41 AM - error in my posting ! (Michael D Cuy) 6. 07:06 AM - Re: error in my posting ! (Rick Holland) 7. 07:40 AM - Re: CAD programs (Roman Bukolt) 8. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: CAD programs (Sayre, William G) 9. 10:24 AM - Design CAD Express (Michael Turrell) 10. 05:52 PM - Re: (Tom Stinemetze) 11. 06:16 PM - Build or Fly? (Tom Stinemetze) 12. 06:38 PM - Re: (Robison) 13. 06:42 PM - CAD (Rcaprd@aol.com) 14. 08:01 PM - first rides (Oscar Zuniga) 15. 10:11 PM - Making Metal Fittings (Catdesign) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:05 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: when is Brodhead this year? Can someone give me the Brodhead dates for this year? thanks, Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:05 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: CAD programs RE: CAD programsWOW! Cool stuff Bill! I want THAT CAD program! But....I was in a local used book chain store yesterday and they had 2 copies of Turbo Cad V6 for $20 each....that would save me $4,980.....better go with Turbo Cad... Those hinges look better in the drawing than they did when I made them! Very interesting....thaks for sharing Bill! Jim in Plano TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: CAD programs Jim Markle wrote: ...drawing programs like AutoCad. (Maybe because I'm too lazy to learn one, but I'll bet there are some good ones out there nowadays.) Jim (and others), As an example of the CAD programs "out there nowadays", take a look at the hinge drawings I was able to produce using the latest in CAD. These are JPG images of the type of "drawings" done in CAD nawadays. This program, called SolidWorks (which I am just learning how to use) models everything in 3D. Traditional "drawings" (i.e. three views, orthagonal projections, etc.) are automatically produced with the click of a button, once the "model" is built. As I said, I am just learning how to use the program, so as a form of "practice" during off-work hours I am slowly building a CAD model of the Air Camper airframe. When I finally finish, I will share the model with the list. Of course, that might take a little while - so far I have only completed the horizontal stabilizer. Oh yeah, one drawback.the program will set you back about $5000. <> <> P.S. Does the hinge look familiar, Jim? Thanks for sharing your grid paper sketch of your hinge. Bill ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:22 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Dates Douwe--- generally it is the weekend before Oshkosh begins but since this year's EAA begins on Friday the 24th of July I'll bet that would be the first of the two to three day Brodhead gathering. The two events overlapped in 1998 as I recall also. Maybe we'll hear a more certain date from someone else. Mike C. EAA's web site says this today: 5 Months 2 Weeks 3 Days to EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2006! July 24 - 30, 2006 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: when is Brodhead this year? From: "Egan, John" Hi, Check out the chapter website at www.eaa431.org. The event is July 21-23. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 7:59 AM To: pietenpolgroup Subject: Pietenpol-List: when is Brodhead this year=3F =09 =09 Can someone give me the Brodhead dates for this year=3F thanks, Douwe This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:49 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: error in my posting ! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Aggggh---what a nucklehead ! I was looking at February's calandar instead of July for the Brodhead dates. Thanks, John for the correct dates ! (Friday July 21st, 22nd. & 23rd with Oshkosh beginning on Monday July 24th) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:28 AM PST US From: Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: error in my posting ! No problemo Mike, we all have our senior moments occasionally. RH no not archive On 2/7/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy < > Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > Aggggh---what a nucklehead ! I was looking at February's calandar > instead > of July for the Brodhead dates. > > Thanks, John for the correct dates ! (Friday July 21st, 22nd. & 23rd > with Oshkosh beginning on Monday July 24th) > > Mike C. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:41 AM PST US From: "Roman Bukolt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD programs If you want an easy to learn CAD program that doesn't cost $5000, check out Design CAD by Upperspace. It includes a 460 page manual that clearly explains every key stroke. If I remember right the cost of mine was lest than $300. They also make a cheapy called Modelcad for designing model airplanes but works fine for any 2D drw. for under $100. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: CAD programs From: "Sayre, William G" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" As an inexpensive introduction to CAD programs (and certainly capable of 2D pattern development) look at CadStd Lite at http://www.cadstd.com/. The Lite version is free and the complete Pro version is only $25. CadStd Lite can export files as DXF so you can share your drawings to your friends with other CAD programs like Autocad. Bill Sayre ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:46 AM PST US From: "Michael Turrell" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Design CAD Express Someone mentioned Design CAD Express at around $300 ,I bought mine at Staples for under $50 Canadian .The close to 400 page manual and training cd that came with the program make it a real buy in my humble opinion.http://www.upperspace.com 2cents,Mike ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:19 PM PST US From: "Tom Stinemetze" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol-List: How did you resolve the accuracy of transferring your computer image to print? How accurate is it and how accurate do you need it? I've had difficulties with the printing process altering the drawing and ending up with odd dimensions on at least one axis. Jim Ash Jim: Most of the good CAD programs out there will allow you to either print out to a specific scale (i.e. 1 inch equals 1 inch for full scale) or opt to make the print fit a specific size of media. If that is not working for you then you may have a conflict in communication between your printer (plotter) and the computer. You can always print to file and then take the plot file to a nearby facility dealing in commercial blueprinting to have it accurately plotted out. Most modern print shops can do this. As to what CAD software to use - it just depends on who you ask. Autocad and MicroStation are the two big names but you are talking about $2,000-$3,000 for a single user license and a BIG learning curve. I ran across one I learned quickly and easily a few years ago called DesignCAD. It will draw in both 2D and 3D if desired and is currently selling new for about $89, See http://www.imsisoft.com/faminfo.asp?fam=2 for more information. Since I started drawing in CAD I have about forgotten how to do it with straight edge and pen. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/stinemetze.htm ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:44 PM PST US From: "Tom Stinemetze" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build or Fly? For those of you who are following my builder's link there will probably not be a lot going on for a while. I have the fortunate opportunity to start my flying lessons this week by taking instruction from a family friend who also taught one of my sons to fly. Won't have the time OR THE MONEY to build while that is going on. I don't have the time to go into the hassle of getting my 3rd class medical but I've got it now and can't wait to get started. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/stinemetze.htm ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:44 PM PST US From: "Robison" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol-List: What about the free CAD program that you can download from e-machine shop. It will let you store files and print from it and it's 3D. Scott Robison ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:40 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: CAD Yesterday, I bought TurboCAD Deluxe Version 11, at Best Buy, for $100. It says it has Powerful 2D & 3D CAD. It has one thick manual, and one CD. Haven't loaded it yet...seems I just added another iron to the fire !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:13 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: first rides --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Yeah, sure, I'd love to move the hands of the clock back to when I was 9 or 10 years old and our family friend Wally took us out to the old Laredo AFB Auxiliary Field (later to be Laredo Airport) and gave me my first airplane ride ever, in a Luscombe. I sat in his lap and I'll never, ever forget the feeling and the impressions I had as I watched the brown grass disappear beneath the wheels, as I looked out the side windows. I don't remember what we saw, or flew over, or what maneuvers we did- but I'll never forget the feeling of watching the ground melt away beneath the tires of that shiny airplane as Wally manipulated the controls and we took to the air. And I've never lost that feeling, that same feeling I get whenever I fly a J-3 or a Super Cub, or anything with an open cockpit. You hang your head over to the side and watch the ground melt away under the fat little tires... This is why I want to fly Pietenpols, and why you do, too... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:49 PM PST US From: "Catdesign" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Metal Fittings All this discussion about CAD has prompted me to speak up and relate my experience with making fitting per the drawings. I drew up all the fittings using TurboCAD. I like TurboCAD and will likely upgrade to their 3D version when the price comes down. I knew from Mike Cuy's posts on this list that many of the fittings need to be a bit longer. On some fittings I think this is due to not allowing for the bend allowance when they were drawn. On others, I just don't know why. So when drawing each fitting I included the bend allowance (even put in bend lines) as shown in "Making Fittings" by Tony Bingelis ( The Sport Plane Builder Book from the EAA [catch that reference Mike?]). It worked well to glue on the printed fitting templates and cut them out. After cutting, grinding then sanding you end up with a fitting that is very close to the drawing. The crosshair in the bolt hole is very helpful in placing a dimple exactly where the plans show the center of the hole. But there is the problem, not all the fittings I've made seem to fit my fuselage and tail like I think they should. Fortunately, a much wiser builder then I told me not to make the fitting until I need them, just for this reason. I think the problem lies in the way the plans were drawn and the inaccuracies of building. Now, I am not saying the plans are wrong. All I am saying is that in places the fitting could fit the location better. So here is what I now do. I make a template using cardboard, paper, light aluminum or whatever is handy, right on the completed structural element. I make my template large enough to layout the holes where the plans say to do it. Then I adjust the center of these holes to the best spot on the structure. Usually this is to the centerline of the wood member or away from a glue joint. I then adjust the outside dimension of the fitting to maintain the setback away from the edge. Holes hanging out in space I located per the drawing but a bit farther away (ie longer tabs, as Mike suggests). I mostly follow the plans but the CAD drawings were, for me, a waste of time. The thing about fittings is you need to look at what they are supposed to do and make them fit your plane not the plans. If I can, I do all the bending before drilling any holes. As for holes, leave them undersize clamp them in place and drill the matching holes on the wood member. Then I do the final trimming down to the correct shape and size. On doubled up fittings (you know where there is one on the inside and one on the outside) only drill holes on one then clamp both on the fuselage drill an undersize hole all the way through the other fitting. Then enlarge the hole to the proper size and then finish to the shape and size. That's the way I see it. Now I haven't made that many fittings yet so this might be my problem and more experienced builders may not encounter this. I'm new to metal work but I'm finding the learning curve to be fun. My wood construction is as close as I can come but trust me I know it's not perfect. Oh, one more thing, because I feel that this advice, to not build the fittings first, has saved me a bunch of money, I have chosen to not give out the CAD files because I would feel terrible if someone used them to make the fittings and they did not fit. Sorry about the long post Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca