Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 02/08/06


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:21 AM - Re: Making Metal Fittings (Phillips, Jack)
     2. 05:28 AM - Chris Tracy's post....& Bud paper stock (Michael D Cuy)
     3. 05:40 AM - Re: Design CAD Express (Steve Glass)
     4. 06:25 AM - another experimental takes off to set another record (Michael D Cuy)
     5. 07:12 AM - Re: another experimental takes off to set another record (harvey rule)
     6. 07:53 AM - Re: another experimental takes off to set another record (harvey rule)
     7. 10:45 AM - Re: Making Metal Fittings (jimboyer@direcway.com)
     8. 07:10 PM - Re: Chris Tracy's post....& Bud paper stock (John Hofmann)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:21:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Making Metal Fittings
    From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
    Chris that's exactly the way I made all my fittings. Worked well. The only thing I can add is that I found an ideal source of pattern cardboard to be a 12 pack or case of Budweiser. The cardbaord they make those cases out of is perfect for patterns - thin, nice and stiff, and easy to cut. Of course, there's all that beer you've got to get rid of but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Jack Phillips Hoping for good flying weather this weekend -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesign Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Metal Fittings All this discussion about CAD has prompted me to speak up and relate my experience with making fitting per the drawings. I drew up all the fittings using TurboCAD. I like TurboCAD and will likely upgrade to their 3D version when the price comes down. I knew from Mike Cuy's posts on this list that many of the fittings need to be a bit longer. On some fittings I think this is due to not allowing for the bend allowance when they were drawn. On others, I just don't know why. So when drawing each fitting I included the bend allowance (even put in bend lines) as shown in "Making Fittings" by Tony Bingelis ( The Sport Plane Builder Book from the EAA [catch that reference Mike?]). It worked well to glue on the printed fitting templates and cut them out. After cutting, grinding then sanding you end up with a fitting that is very close to the drawing. The crosshair in the bolt hole is very helpful in placing a dimple exactly where the plans show the center of the hole. But there is the problem, not all the fittings I've made seem to fit my fuselage and tail like I think they should. Fortunately, a much wiser builder then I told me not to make the fitting until I need them, just for this reason. I think the problem lies in the way the plans were drawn and the inaccuracies of building. Now, I am not saying the plans are wrong. All I am saying is that in places the fitting could fit the location better. So here is what I now do. I make a template using cardboard, paper, light aluminum or whatever is handy, right on the completed structural element. I make my template large enough to layout the holes where the plans say to do it. Then I adjust the center of these holes to the best spot on the structure. Usually this is to the centerline of the wood member or away from a glue joint. I then adjust the outside dimension of the fitting to maintain the setback away from the edge. Holes hanging out in space I located per the drawing but a bit farther away (ie longer tabs, as Mike suggests). I mostly follow the plans but the CAD drawings were, for me, a waste of time. The thing about fittings is you need to look at what they are supposed to do and make them fit your plane not the plans. If I can, I do all the bending before drilling any holes. As for holes, leave them undersize clamp them in place and drill the matching holes on the wood member. Then I do the final trimming down to the correct shape and size. On doubled up fittings (you know where there is one on the inside and one on the outside) only drill holes on one then clamp both on the fuselage drill an undersize hole all the way through the other fitting. Then enlarge the hole to the proper size and then finish to the shape and size. That's the way I see it. Now I haven't made that many fittings yet so this might be my problem and more experienced builders may not encounter this. I'm new to metal work but I'm finding the learning curve to be fun. My wood construction is as close as I can come but trust me I know it's not perfect. Oh, one more thing, because I feel that this advice, to not build the fittings first, has saved me a bunch of money, I have chosen to not give out the CAD files because I would feel terrible if someone used them to make the fittings and they did not fit. Sorry about the long post Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Espanol - Deutsch - Nederlands - Francais - Italiano - Norsk - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:28:48 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Chris Tracy's post....& Bud paper stock
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> That post was excellent Chris...and thanks for endorsing my late Uncle Tony's books:) The only difference I had is that I used Labatt Blue 12 pack paper stock vs. Jack Phillip's Budweiser........ but he does (along with John Hofmann) have excellent taste in scotch. do not archive Mike C.


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:40:56 AM PST US
    From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Design CAD Express
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com> Hi I have used Design Cad as well and find it great. I have worked with different Cad systems and they all seem to have their good and quirkey points. It is really just a matter of learning your system and practising with it. The best learning tool is being able to talk to somebody who is also using the same system. You will each be able to tell each other little tips and shortcuts how to do different operations. The same task can usually be done many different ways. Some easy and some not so easy. Best regards Steve G >From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit@3web.net> >To: <Pietenpol-List@matronics.com> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Design CAD Express >Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:22:33 -0500 > >Someone mentioned Design CAD Express at around $300 ,I bought mine at >Staples for under $50 Canadian .The close to 400 page manual and training >cd that came with the program make it a real buy in my humble >opinion.http://www.upperspace.com > >2cents,Mike


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:25:15 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: another experimental takes off to set another record
    and the Wright Flyer was an experimental too......just like our Pietenpol Air Campers ! CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Aviation adventurer Steve Fossett shot down a three-mile runway in an experimental aircraft Wednesday and took off on an attempt to break the airplane flight distance record. The goal: 27,000 miles.


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:12:53 AM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: another experimental takes off to set another record
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca> The rights only wish they had a plane as good as the Pietenpol! Michael D Cuy wrote: > > and the Wright Flyer was an experimental too......just like our > Pietenpol Air Campers ! > > CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Aviation adventurer Steve Fossett shot > down a three-mile runway in an experimental aircraft Wednesday and > took off on an attempt to break the airplane flight distance record. > The goal: 27,000 miles.


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:53:04 AM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: another experimental takes off to set another record
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca> He can be tracked live on blueskynetwork.com;he's past Hamilton Island,so far so good.That last message should have been Wrights not rights.Sorry about that,my apologies to the Wright family.Do not archive Michael D Cuy wrote: > > and the Wright Flyer was an experimental too......just like our > Pietenpol Air Campers ! > > CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Aviation adventurer Steve Fossett shot > down a three-mile runway in an experimental aircraft Wednesday and > took off on an attempt to break the airplane flight distance record. > The goal: 27,000 miles.


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:45:41 AM PST US
    From: jimboyer@direcway.com
    Subject: Re: Making Metal Fittings
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com Hi Chris, I had some of the same adjustments to do to the fittings I have made. Good message Chris. Jim Santa Rosa ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Metal Fittings > All this discussion about CAD has prompted me to speak up and > relate my experience with making fitting per the drawings. I drew > up all the fittings using TurboCAD. I like TurboCAD and will > likely upgrade to their 3D version when the price comes down. > > > > I knew from Mike Cuy's posts on this list that many of the > fittings need to be a bit longer. On some fittings I think this > is due to not allowing for the bend allowance when they were > drawn. On others, I just don't know why. So when drawing each > fitting I included the bend allowance (even put in bend lines) as > shown in "Making Fittings" by Tony Bingelis ( The Sport Plane > Builder Book from the EAA [catch that reference Mike?]). > > > > It worked well to glue on the printed fitting templates and cut > them out. After cutting, grinding then sanding you end up with a > fitting that is very close to the drawing. The crosshair in the > bolt hole is very helpful in placing a dimple exactly where the > plans show the center of the hole. But there is the problem, not > all the fittings I've made seem to fit my fuselage and tail like I > think they should. Fortunately, a much wiser builder then I told > me not to make the fitting until I need them, just for this > reason. I think the problem lies in the way the plans were drawn > and the inaccuracies of building. Now, I am not saying the plans > are wrong. All I am saying is that in places the fitting could > fit the location better. > > > > So here is what I now do. I make a template using cardboard, > paper, light aluminum or whatever is handy, right on the completed > structural element. I make my template large enough to layout the > holes where the plans say to do it. Then I adjust the center of > these holes to the best spot on the structure. Usually this is to > the centerline of the wood member or away from a glue joint. I > then adjust the outside dimension of the fitting to maintain the > setback away from the edge. Holes hanging out in space I located > per the drawing but a bit farther away (ie longer tabs, as Mike > suggests). I mostly follow the plans but the CAD drawings were, > for me, a waste of time. The thing about fittings is you need to > look at what they are supposed to do and make them fit your plane > not the plans. > > > > If I can, I do all the bending before drilling any holes. As for > holes, leave them undersize clamp them in place and drill the > matching holes on the wood member. Then I do the final trimming > down to the correct shape and size. On doubled up fittings (you > know where there is one on the inside and one on the outside) only > drill holes on one then clamp both on the fuselage drill an > undersize hole all the way through the other fitting. Then > enlarge the hole to the proper size and then finish to the shape > and size. > > > > That's the way I see it. Now I haven't made that many fittings > yet so this might be my problem and more experienced builders may > not encounter this. I'm new to metal work but I'm finding the > learning curve to be fun. My wood construction is as close as I > can come but trust me I know it's not perfect. > > > > Oh, one more thing, because I feel that this advice, to not build > the fittings first, has saved me a bunch of money, I have chosen > to not give out the CAD files because I would feel terrible if > someone used them to make the fittings and they did not fit. > > > > Sorry about the long post > > > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca >


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:10:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Chris Tracy's post....& Bud paper stock
    From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com> Ahh the scotch and sausages back in the woods is a great memory. I introduced Jack and Mike to "The Great White" kalberwurst and even some local beers (Bitter Woman comes to mind). Jack brought a "wee dram of the creature" and it was a memorable weekend. My wife refers to it as "Stinky, smelly, boy weekend" or the gathering of "The Farty Boys." TakeCare, -john- Do not archive > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > That post was excellent Chris...and thanks for endorsing my late Uncle > Tony's books:) > > The only difference I had is that I used Labatt Blue 12 pack paper stock > vs. Jack Phillip's Budweiser........ > but he does (along with John Hofmann) have excellent taste in scotch. > > do not archive > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > >




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