Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 02/15/06


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:57 AM - Piet side view (Jack T. Textor)
     2. 04:10 AM - Re: picture wanted (harvey rule)
     3. 06:03 AM - Re: Starting Troubles. (Mark Blackwell)
     4. 06:23 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Carb Heat (TBYH@aol.com)
     5. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Carb Heat (harvey rule)
     6. 11:25 AM - photos (Oscar Zuniga)
     7. 11:39 AM - Re: photos (Bill Church)
     8. 11:44 AM - beautiful women fly first........ (Michael D Cuy)
     9. 12:10 PM - Re: beautiful women fly first........ (harvey rule)
    10. 06:13 PM - Re: Starting troubles (kmordecai001@comcast.net)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:57:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Piet side view
    From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
    Can't remember who requested, but here is a side view picture I took at Brodhead in 04. Jack Textor


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:10:49 AM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: picture wanted
    I hope this helps a little;it's the only one I could find. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> > > Anybody have a picture of a side view of a Piet (any Piet) with a passenger > in the front cockpit? Please send it to me off-list or if it's on a > webpage, send me the URL. I'm trying to get an idea of geometry and general > physical arrangement. > > Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:03:37 AM PST US
    From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Starting Troubles.
    Gary Carb heat only enriches the mixture when there is actually some heat there to apply. The heat from most systems comes from the exhaust manifold. Hot air is less dense than cold air so the fuel air mixture is enriched. Unless the engine has run enough to warm the exhaust system, there is no heat. The same thing can happen with an engine failure due to carb ice. Unless the heat is applied fairly quickly after the failure, the engine exhaust manifold can cool and then no heat is available leaving you with an unplanned landing. The heat comes from switching the path the air takes to the carb at the carb heat box. It does by pass the filter though and if a filter is clogged, it will breath more freely. Well I guess it would at any time but it shouldn't be significant if all is well with the filter. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles. I think Steve has a point in this posting. I have heard about it for long time. The reason could be that the carb heat, making the air go though all that places, makes it dificult and doing some suck of the gasoline in the carb, similar as a butterfly choke acts, orf the hand over the old grass cutter engine, this to get more gasoline in the system, Some pilots use it in cold weather when they think that too much primer could flood the engine with crude gasoline. Using the carb heat will finally make a little richer than normal air/gasoline mist go inside the ignition camera, helping the correct fire and for this reason the start of the engine. At least this is the way I have undertood it. I could be wrong. Saludos Gary Gower Mark Blackwell <markb1958@verizon.net> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" To: Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" > > going to full carb heat on cold days works wonders when hand propping > too. > > stevee > Carb heat for most engines will do absolutely nothing till the engine is running. All it does is pull unfiltered air by the exhaust manifold to warm it before sending it to the in carb. All it will do till the engine is running is allow for something to get pulled into places you don't want it. Things like ice, slush ect can make for an annoying if n ot expensive day. When an engine doesn't start properly, there is a reason. Just because it will sooner or later go doesn't mean the problem is not there and rarely if ever do airplane parts wind up on a clearance sale. Might as well find and fix the problem. I suspected it might be the impluse coupler and the previous post confirmed it. That should fix the problem. Just be glad you only got tired arms to find. it. I know of one case where a company renting a 152 had the same problem with the same symptoms. They just kept cranking on it until they had to fix not only the impluse coupler which is expensive enough, but also had to replace the $500 starter to go with it. When an airplane does not work like it should, its trying to tell you something. Those that are wise listen. Mark


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:23:25 AM PST US
    From: TBYH@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Carb Heat
    Trying to start the engine with the carb heat on, which should be permanently on with a Model A powered Piet, shouldn't have an effect on starting. There is little resistance to the intake air when hand propping...unless you've actually got an air filter in the intake and it is extremely dirty. Assuming you've got air and fuel (and no water contamination) to the engine, then the only thing left would be ignition --- either weak or no spark or the timing is off...or weak compression. That's how I'd approach a hard starting engine...my 2 cents...if the carb float is off it may flood or it should at least fire, though it may quit... Fred B. La Crosse, WI


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:53:48 AM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Carb Heat
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca> If the gas is old,it will also cause hard starting.


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:25:46 AM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: photos
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Thanks to all who responded. To those who posted a photo to the list and not to my email personally... I'll never see it! I'm on the digest version of the list, which does not pass attachments through. I got a beautiful side view picture of Mike Hayes riding passenger in Bill Rewey's Piet. Should give me the info I needed. Also got a very useful picture of a lovely lady riding passenger in Mike Cuy's Piet. Mike seems to be a chick magnet with his airplane, not to mention that he is now infamous for that clip on his video where he provides a helping hand to a female's backside to get her into the passenger cockpit. You'll never live that one down, Mike ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:39:44 AM PST US
    Subject: photos
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com> Oscar, You CAN see the photos. Just use the Matronics Forum (use this link) http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=2ed4da73b54366540c0d90 5c0d06a3a6 Attachments are there, so Digest subscribers can see them without needing to be subscribed to the real-time List. Bill -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" --> <taildrags@hotmail.com> To those who posted a photo to the list and not to my email personally... I'll never see it! I'm on the digest version of the list, which does not pass attachments through. Oscar Zuniga


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:44:18 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: beautiful women fly first........
    Oscar--- Yep, good old Tom's wife getting a ride in my Piet. I let him take his wife for a ride in my Piet because he's a better taildragger pilot than I'll ever hope to be, plus I get nervous flying pretty women....not to mention distracted. Mike C. do not archive


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:10:56 PM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: beautiful women fly first........
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca> That's about all I could ever get into my Piet;a pretty skinny small women or a midget.The people who flew this thing in the twenties must have been built like midgets.The only way I can get into the front seat is head first with no way to turn around and a frantic feeling of never being able to get out again.The only way I could get into the back seat pryor to installing the flop door was by sitting on the turtle deck and doing the limbo.I'm 5'4" on a good day and weigh 200lbs.Now you are looking at an upside down bowling pin right,----------right! Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Oscar--- Yep, good old Tom's wife getting a ride in my Piet. I let him > take his wife for a ride in my Piet because > he's a better taildragger pilot than I'll ever hope to be, plus I get > nervous flying pretty women....not to mention distracted. > > Mike C. > > do not archive > > Name: Kathiride.jpg > Kathiride.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) > Encoding: base64


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:13:04 PM PST US
    From: kmordecai001@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Starting troubles
    Hi Folks, On the recent posts on hard starting, I've found that the old Stromberg NAS-3 needs it's idle mixture richened up about 1/4 to 1/2 turn in the cold weather. I had overhauled the carb as per the manual, installed the steel needle, and set the float level by the book last summer. Ran great, plugs were perfect, idle mixture screw was at about 1 turn (set for best hot idle, like the book says). Pull thru 4-5 blades, switch on, crack the throttle, and she'd pop right off and idle, although a little rough until it warmed up. Now that it's cold (well, as cold as it gets around here), she'll pop right off, run for 4-5 seconds, and die. This would be repeated a couple of times until she would finally stay running (carb heat on). Opened up the idle mixture 1/4 turn or so yesterday and it's about 90% better. Still died once, but stayed running on the second attempt. My old BMW motorcycle needs seasonal idle mixture tweaks, and so did the old Porsche, so I suppose this is to be expected with a simple carb with no manifold heat. My 2 cent's worth :-) Dave Mordecai Panacea, FL Hi Folks, On the recent posts on hard starting, I've found that the old Stromberg NAS-3 needs it's idle mixture richened up about 1/4 to 1/2 turn in the cold weather. I had overhauled the carb as per the manual, installed the steel needle, and set the float level by the booklast summer.Ran great, plugs were perfect, idle mixture screw was at about 1turn (set for best hot idle, like the book says). Pull thru 4-5 blades, switch on, crack the throttle, and she'd pop right off and idle, although a little rough until it warmed up. Now that it's cold (well, as cold as it gets around here), she'll pop right off, run for 4-5 seconds, and die. This would be repeated a couple of times until she would finally stay running (carb heat on). Opened up the idle mixture 1/4 turn or so yesterday and it's about 90% better. Still died once, but stayed running on the second attempt. My old BMW motorcycle needs seasonal idle mixture tweaks, and so did the old Porsche, so I suppose this is to be expected with a simple carb with no manifold heat. My 2 cent's worth :-) Dave Mordecai Panacea, FL




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