Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:44 AM - Re: height (Dick Navratil)
2. 09:05 AM - Re: using oven (Tim Willis)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: using oven (Tim Willis)
4. 09:17 AM - Re: height (Ben Ramler)
5. 09:18 AM - Landing Gear strength (Tim Willis)
6. 09:18 AM - Landing Gear strength (Tim Willis)
7. 09:49 AM - Re: height (Jdavis2a@wmconnect.com)
8. 10:00 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Hans Vander Voort)
9. 10:17 AM - max passenger weight (Michael D Cuy)
10. 10:52 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (harvey rule)
11. 10:58 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Hans Vander Voort)
12. 12:09 PM - Re: height (walt evans)
13. 01:17 PM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Rick Holland)
14. 02:13 PM - Re: height (tmbrant1@netzero.com)
15. 03:35 PM - Re: height (gcardinal)
16. 05:21 PM - Need information (Kenneth M. Heide)
17. 06:39 PM - Re: Need information (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
18. 06:47 PM - Re: height (Dick Navratil)
19. 07:41 PM - Re: Need information (HVandervoo@aol.com)
20. 08:14 PM - Re: height (Mark Blackwell)
Message 1
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Ben
There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy
for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching
the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North
of St. Paul.
On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem
is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying
more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know
some have carried much more.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: height
Hello Listers,
Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let
me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let
me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really
cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best
choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying
extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger?
Thanks for the input,
Ben Ramler
SW Minnesota
Message 2
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After you use your oven to heat the part, clean the oven with oven cleaner.
Then, while the wife is still out, bake a cheap cake or loaf of bread in it.
Then throw this loaf away. Open the kitchen window during all these processes.
Never tell the wife of any of this.
I know about trouble. Many years ago I used the home oven to unwarp 50-60 thin
lathe-turned steel parts. Even after cleaning beforehand, they had miniscule
cutting oil residue (water soluble "monkey milk") on them. I cleaned the oven
as carefully as I could afterwards, but the next baking experience was a disaster,
and I heard about it for years, as was noted on this board. Once the
cake absorbed the fumes, all was OK, except for the cake.
---------------------------------
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Message 3
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After you use your oven to heat the part, clean the oven with oven cleaner.
Then, while the wife is still out, bake a cheap cake or loaf of bread in it.
Then throw this loaf away. Open the kitchen window during all these processes.
Never tell the wife of any of this.
I know about trouble. Many years ago I used the home oven to unwarp 50-60 thin
lathe-turned steel parts. Even after cleaning beforehand, they had miniscule
cutting oil residue (water soluble "monkey milk") on them. I cleaned the oven
as carefully as I could afterwards, but the next baking experience was a disaster,
and I heard about it for years, as was noted on this board. Once the
cake absorbed the fumes, all was OK, except for the cake.
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 4
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Thanks Dick,
When you say weight is an issue what would you or others say the max weight would
be for someone sitting in the front?
Dick Navratil <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
Ben
There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy
for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching
the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North
of St. Paul.
On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem
is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying
more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know
some have carried much more.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: height
Hello Listers,
Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let
me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let
me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really
cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best
choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying
extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger?
Thanks for the input,
Ben Ramler
SW Minnesota
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Landing Gear strength |
I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs,
instead of bungees.
I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets.
In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held,
but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out.
As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a
longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether
from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor
visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here.
Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done
in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind?
Thanks.
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Landing Gear strength |
I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs,
instead of bungees.
I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets.
In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held,
but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out.
As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a
longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether
from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor
visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here.
Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done
in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind?
Thanks.
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 7
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I flew a guy who was at least 250. ROC was a little slow but I never had any
doubt it would fly. My plane is about 625 empty and powered with a Corvair.
The day I flew the guy was about 80 F with about 10 gal. fuel. Runway was
grass, 2400 ft. long JIM
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear strength |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Tim,
I have the setup as you described, original Pietenpol split landing gear
with compression spring in place of bungees.
I have the same concern is it really strong enough?
Although it's my own welding quality that I question most.
So far only about 15 hours flying with about 30 or more Landings (short
flights and some Touch and Go's)
But one of-field landing in a freshly harvest cornfield, no stalks just 6
to 8 inch ruts, and I landed across the ruts.
Some bouncy landings, flaring to soon and stalling a foot or so high.
So far nothing bend or broken.
When I have made a less than smooth landing I will inspect the landing gear
for cracks or other distortions.
Plus every few flights you typically end up cleaning the landing gear and a
inspection goes with it.
I believe the design is pretty sound.
The only recommendation that I can give you: make strong welding, two
layers if needed.
And stress relief the welding afterwards.
Plus Inspect frequently specially during the test phase
Hans
Message 9
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| Subject: | max passenger weight |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Ben-- I'd like to chime in here by saying that there are some huge
variables that dictate how much a particular Pietenpol can
carry in the front cockpit and I'll list the ones I think are important:
1) Your airplane's empty weight. The more the empty weight, the less
useful load, the smaller your passenger has to be.
This is really a big deal in a Piet so
unless you really need a starter, battery, generator, alternator, wheel pants,
radios, air conditioning (scratch
that---it comes standard) ILS marker beacons, strobes, front cockpit
instruments,
and upholstered sidewalls, don't add
them !
2) Engine performance-- I have seen souped up Model A Piets take 175 lb.
passengers up on warm days, but a standard Model A
that is weak or has seen better
days...be careful. A Corvair or 65 Continental are subject to the same
issues when considering carry a
passenger---how strong is the engine ? When my engine was new I took
my 205 pound brother flying on an 80
degree day from a 2700 foot grass strip with 1/2 tank of fuel (8.5 gallons)
but after putting 400 plus hours on it
the engine is not as strong and I wouldn't ever consider doing that ride
under the same conditions. I could
probably carry a 140 pound person out of that strip today, same weather.
3) Fuel Load & OAT On 80 F days when taking a passenger I fly with a
partial fuel tank. My normal fuel holds 17 gallons or 102 pounds.
With 7 gallons on board I reduce the
planes takeoff weight by 60 pounds--that is a big help.
Temperature/density altitude greatly
affect takeoff performance with a passenger---be choosy and pick the
thinner folks.
4) Rigging/wing area An improperly rigged Piet will be fighting excess
drag and decreased efficiency in all phases of flight, reducing the
planes ability to lift by a certain
factor. Planes like Bill Rewey's of Madison, Wisconsin, that are equipped
with a
stock 65 hp Continental engine but have
added 3 foot (I believe it is three feet) of wingspan can lift more weight on
less power on warmer days.
5) Runway conditions Flying off of pavement is pretty much the same
everywhere, but when you take a passenger out of a grass airport
simple things like taller grass, short
grass, softer sod, firm soil, and tire inflation pressures play very
important roles
in passenger selection/decisions.
MIke
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear strength |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
I have the same setup as you and would like to switch to springs as
well.What kind or type of springs did you use.Is there a part number or
name for them.I would like to weld them in place of the bungees.I just
don't trust those bungees.They appear to be an accident looking for a
place to happen ,to me.Thanks.
Hans Vander Voort wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> Tim,
>
> I have the setup as you described, original Pietenpol split landing gear
> with compression spring in place of bungees.
> I have the same concern is it really strong enough?
> Although it's my own welding quality that I question most.
>
> So far only about 15 hours flying with about 30 or more Landings (short
> flights and some Touch and Go's)
>
> But one of-field landing in a freshly harvest cornfield, no stalks just 6
> to 8 inch ruts, and I landed across the ruts.
> Some bouncy landings, flaring to soon and stalling a foot or so high.
>
> So far nothing bend or broken.
>
> When I have made a less than smooth landing I will inspect the landing gear
> for cracks or other distortions.
> Plus every few flights you typically end up cleaning the landing gear and a
> inspection goes with it.
>
> I believe the design is pretty sound.
> The only recommendation that I can give you: make strong welding, two
> layers if needed.
> And stress relief the welding afterwards.
>
> Plus Inspect frequently specially during the test phase
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear strength |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Harvey,
Follow the link:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=75
Or if the link does not work go to mykitplane.com, under files section and
my name you can find the same file
Hans
Message 12
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Dick,
Any chance to see pics of the full canopy? Don't care what it looks like, I'd
build it and use it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
Ben
There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy
for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching
the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North
of St. Paul.
On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem
is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying
more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know
some have carried much more.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: height
Hello Listers,
Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so
let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit?
Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are
really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next
best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for
carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger?
Thanks for the input,
Ben Ramler
SW Minnesota
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear strength |
Tim
I also wanted Cub style gear on my Piet with springs. Since the GN-1 gear is
really just reverse engineered Cub gear I bougth a set of GN-1 plans and
merged the two designs. Haven't heard of a lot of Cubs breaking their gear.
To prevent prop and fuselage damage if a main gear collapses I have heard of
people installing a safety cable between the two axles (although I have
never seen one on a Piet), has anyone installed something like this?
You will also notice in the picture that I went for bolt on axles which can
be shimmed later if my measuring, cutting, grinding, and/or welding is off a
bit (a very distinct possibility). Am using Matco axles and wheels.
Rick H
On 2/17/06, Tim Willis <strategyguy536@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die
> springs, instead of bungees.
>
> I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in
> Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case
> the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right
> LG to splay out.
>
> As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack
> a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future,
> whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable
> winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little
> insurance here.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone
> done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind?
>
> Thanks.
>
> < BR>
>
> ------------------------------
> Use Photomail<http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D38867/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com>to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 14
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total load
is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if considered
on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm 200 lbs and
would like to carry passengers around the same weight if possible... I'm sure
it's different with different powerplants so if people can speak to that, it
would be interesting.
Tom B.
Message 15
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
Last summer we flew NX18235 as follows:
Empty weight - 616#
Engine A-65
Pilot - 225#
Passenger - 200#
Fuel - 90#
Baggage - 60#
Temp about 80 - 85F
It climbed about 200 - 250 fpm with a somewhat coarse prop.
Greg Cardinal
P.S. Ben Ramler, I've been trying to contact you off list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
> <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
>
> The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total
> load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if
> considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm
> 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if
> possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if
> people can speak to that, it would be interesting.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Need information |
Fellow Pieter's:
As I read through my Corvair builders manual from William Wynne I can across
some parts that are not very clear in their description. Can any fellow corvair
builders assist in part descriptions and where you purchased them?..... things
such as coils, flywheel, starters,...etc.....
I need more specific information in order to hit the parts store to purchase.
Also, I do plan on buying certain parts from William Wynne.....just wanted to
save $$ in parts I can buy locally and purchase machined part from him.... Any
input is good input.
Ken Heide
Fargo, ND
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Need information |
Keith:
Clarks corvairs is where you go.
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi?category=3Dhome
there are a few others if you google, you'll find them.
you also will want to sign up on the corvaircrafters buletin board.
here is the directions on that one.
http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
if you go to;
http://mylist.net/listinfo/CorvAircraft
http://mylist.net/archives/corvaircraft/
you can find a wealth of info on the corvaircrafters archives
michael silvius
scarborough, maine
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth M. Heide
. Can any fellow corvair builders assist in part descriptions and where you purchased
them?..... things such as coils, flywheel, starters,...etc.....
I need more specific information in order to hit the parts store to purchase.
Message 18
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Hey Walt
There were some pics on the list last winter sometime as part of a discussion
on cold weather flying. I'll start going thru archives as I get a chance.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
Dick,
Any chance to see pics of the full canopy? Don't care what it looks like, I'd
build it and use it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
Ben
There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy
for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching
the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North
of St. Paul.
On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem
is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried
carrying more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know
some have carried much more.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: height
Hello Listers,
Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so
let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit?
Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are
really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next
best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for
carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger?
Thanks for the input,
Ben Ramler
SW Minnesota
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Need information |
Ken,
The blue bosch coil you can get from JCWhitney, see link:
_http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=b
osch+coil&searchbtn.x=11&searchbtn.y=10_
(http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=bosch+coil&searchbtn.x=11&searchbtn.y10)
All other ignition parts, sparkplug wires and coil switcher, from Summit
racing, see link;
_http://www.summitracing.com/_ (http://www.summitracing.com/)
Of course Clarks for all corvair engine parts
_http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main_ (http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main)
Hope this helps.
Hans
Message 20
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
Tom let me throw out some things for you to think about, many of them have
already been mentioned.
First engine selection and horsepower are going to vary so much that for a
specific airplane its going to be different, maybe very different for each
airplane. A strong 85 hp is going to have very different abilities than a A
model needing work.
The airframes are going to vary as well. A little rigging difference here,
an angle variation could make very big differences in the what you can
carry.
Personally this is one of the things Id want to work out during the testing
period at the longest runway with the least obstructions that I could find
nearby. Record everything, Temp, wind, pressure, fuel loads, weight then
actual performance in flight. Add weight just a little at a time so you
don't find out you have an airplane that just simply will not go and if you
even suspect much less have solid indications that it might not fly abort
the takeoff. Work out the density altitudes so you can compare apples to
apples with regards to performance and then decide what you are comfortable
with an then don't exceed it for any reason.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
> <tmbrant1@netzero.net>
>
> The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total
> load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if
> considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm
> 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if
> possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if
> people can speak to that, it would be interesting.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
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