Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: height (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
2. 04:02 AM - Re: height (walt evans)
3. 07:03 AM - low speed lateral control (stall characteristics) (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
4. 08:45 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (gbowen@ptialaska.net)
5. 08:53 AM - Re: height (Ben Ramler)
6. 10:10 AM - Rudder bar or rudder pedals (John and Phyllis Smoyer)
7. 10:10 AM - Rudder horn location (John and Phyllis Smoyer)
8. 11:09 AM - [ Chris Tracy ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
9. 03:28 PM - Re: Need information (Kenneth M. Heide)
10. 05:42 PM - Corvair parts info (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 07:33 PM - Re: Need information (HVandervoo@aol.com)
12. 09:59 PM - Re: Landing Gear strength... NO! (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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In a message dated 2/17/2006 11:18:38 AM Central Standard Time,
ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com writes:
When you say weight is an issue what would you or others say the max weight
would be for someone sitting in the front?
I use a limited length on the front seat belt...If ya can't get it buckled,
you're too fat to go !! :)
Actually, last summer, I had a passenger in there that weighed 240 lbs, and
he's about 6' 2". He had to really 'suck in the gut' to get the belt buckled,
but he finally got it, and after 3 high speed taxi runs down the hard surface
runway to see how the plane handled, off we went !! The Density Altitude was
2500', the temp was about 80=BA, and I had about a half load of fuel (10 gal.).
It was a shallow climb rate, but the plane handled normally, during the 25
minute flight. It's really a lot of fun to see how enthusiastic my passengers
are. I've probably had about 50 or 60 passengers, and every one of them really
loved it !! I recently acquired a pair of headsets with a built in
intercom, but have yet to use it in flight. Should open a whole new realm of
enjoyment, now that I can use voice communication with my passenger...as opposed
to
hand signals !! I don't have the controls in the front cockpit, so I can more
easily carry all the stuff for extended cross country flight, and besides
that...I'm just not ready for my passenger to kill me !!
As rule of thumb: You should be at 70% of the take off velocity, by the time
you reach 50% of the available runway...if not, pull power, and you have
plenty of runway to get 'er stopped.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 2
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Dick,
No that's alright. I'll do the leg work. I appreciate the heads up on where to
look.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
Hey Walt
There were some pics on the list last winter sometime as part of a discussion
on cold weather flying. I'll start going thru archives as I get a chance.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
Dick,
Any chance to see pics of the full canopy? Don't care what it looks like,
I'd build it and use it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
Ben
There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full
canopy for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course,
watching the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to
North of St. Paul.
On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem
is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried
carrying more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I
know some have carried much more.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: height
Hello Listers,
Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height
so let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit?
Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so
are really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the
next best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything
for carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger?
Thanks for the input,
Ben Ramler
SW Minnesota
Message 3
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| Subject: | low speed lateral control (stall characteristics) |
Tim Willis and I have been discussing a few things off list and lately about
washout. For all of you guys with flying Piets,
1) how much washout do you have?
2) have you ever tried changing it any to see if handling is improved?
I recently found an interesting article about the subject. (link below) It is
a a NACA report done by engineers at Texas A&M in 1953 using washout tests on
a Taylorcraft. (I have been trying to investigate to see if it was my
Taylorcraft. It was owned by A&M at that time). Anyway - The tests looked at
the
effects of washout and slots on lateral control near stall. The washout was
varied from zero to 8 degrees. They used tufts all across the top surface of
the wing to detect disturbed airflow. The idea is to have the inboard and
center section of the wing stall first with the singtips still flying, so that
the
ailerons remain effective throughout the stall.
I believe the NACA report conclusion was that 4 degrees washout was optimal
for the taylorcraft and thus recommended for light planes.
http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1953/naca-tn-2948/index.cgi?thumbnail11
It might be interesting to consider tests of such on the Piet wing to
determine its optimum. Any thoughts?
Terry B.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Landing Gear strength |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
Tom,
I picked up N-1033B a couple years ago wrecked and cheap because the
original builder under-engineered the cub style gear and didn't include the
necessary stop cables so the gear tubes wouldn't expand beyond the bungees
max strength. Couple recommendations----never ever undersize the bungees
and their attachments to the gear, use the exact system the cub uses with
the exact oversized bungees. You may get a little harder bounce on
landing, but you can learn to grease landings, you cannot substitute
underengineering for saving a few hunderd bucks on this part of the plane.
The guy who put the most money into building N-1033B lost his investment to
me for rebuilding due to an engine failure and an unexpected off-field
landing that would have been sucessful if the gear had not expanded too far
outboard and he didn't have safety stop cables. Wreck caused bent struts,
wings and longerons.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Tim Willis strategyguy536@yahoo.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear strength
I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die
springs, instead of bungees.
I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in
Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case
the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the
right LG to splay out.
As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even
crack a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our
future, whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly
variable winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a
little insurance here.
Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone
done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind?
Thanks.
---------------------------------
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Message 5
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Greg you have been?
my email is ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com
Ben Ramler
gcardinal <gcardinal@mn.rr.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gcardinal"
Last summer we flew NX18235 as follows:
Empty weight - 616#
Engine A-65
Pilot - 225#
Passenger - 200#
Fuel - 90#
Baggage - 60#
Temp about 80 - 85F
It climbed about 200 - 250 fpm with a somewhat coarse prop.
Greg Cardinal
P.S. Ben Ramler, I've been trying to contact you off list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com"
>
>
> The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total
> load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if
> considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm
> 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if
> possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if
> people can speak to that, it would be interesting.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
>
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Rudder bar or rudder pedals |
Pieters: from a pilot's point of view, which is preferred? If rudder pedals are
used, how big should the pedals be, and where should they be located? Thanks.
John Smoyer
Message 7
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| Subject: | Rudder horn location |
Pieters:
Have any of you ever experimented with the vertical position of the rudder horn?
I've located it about where the plans indicate, although that location is not
dimensioned. What would happen if the horn were at a lower location? Reason
I ask is that it seems like this would make for an easier (straighter) cable
run from the rudder bar, maybe even avoid the need for a pulley or hard wood
block to guide the control cable back to the horn. Thanks and best regards,
John Smoyer
Message 8
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| Subject: | [ Chris Tracy ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Chris Tracy <ctracy@water.ca.gov>
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Walt Bowe's Ford powered Pietenpol
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ctracy@water.ca.gov.02.18.2006/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
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Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Need information |
Excellent information.....Thank You
Also.....If you find a supplier for the cub style landing gear please advise......
Ken Heide
Fargo, ND
HVandervoo@aol.com wrote:
Ken,
The blue bosch coil you can get from JCWhitney, see link:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=bosch+coil&searchbtn.x=11&searchbtn.y=10
All other ignition parts, sparkplug wires and coil switcher, from Summit racing,
see link;
http://www.summitracing.com/
Of course Clarks for all corvair engine parts
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main
Hope this helps.
Hans
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| Subject: | Corvair parts info |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Ken (Heide) asked about descriptions and maybe pictures of some of the parts
needed in the Corvair conversion per William Wynne's manual. One resource
is William's website, http://www.flycorvair.com . If you look at the
various info pages on that site, you'll see not only individual parts but
assemblies as well. His "at the hangar" pages show various assemblies, too.
But for pieces that William sells specifically for the conversion, his
online catalog has photos of the pieces and how they go together. On the
product description page,
http://www.flycorvair.com/products.html , you can go down the list of parts
and click on the link to see pictures and descriptions of each part or
assembly that he sells.
One other resource for parts, besides Clark's Corvairs, is The Corvair
Underground. Website is at http://www.corvairunderground.com and they have
been around a long, long time. Be aware that William does not endorse this
source any longer, although he listed the company in earlier editions of his
manual and showed the owner, Lon Wall, as a good person to deal with. I
have found Lon to be fair and honest and his prices to be competitive. He
is not a pilot nor an experimental aircraft builder but he knows Corvairs
inside and out.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Need information |
Ken,
Sorry, can't help you with the Cub style gear.
I made mine myself as per drawings.
Wagareo can supply cub gears but is not cheap.
_http://store.wagaero.com/index.php?cPath=37_86_675_
(http://store.wagaero.com/index.php?cPath=37_86_675)
If you buy the Cb gear, no doubt, have to make some changes to fit the Piet
Hans
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear strength... NO! |
The landing gear (in probably all the aiplanes) is kind of a "fuse" to brake when
the landing is too hard... is better to break or bend part of the lannding
gear or/and the propeller, etc. than to break the pilots and passengers back...
Remember G's have to be taken by as much parts as possible in the airplane
before the pilots body...
I will rather spend my money rebuilding the plane or better (once the plane is
flying) this time and money practicing touch and goes, than in hospital bills
treating my back... :-) thats why the new cars are completly diferent built
from the post war DeSoto...
Think light flys better.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Tim Willis <strategyguy536@yahoo.com> wrote:
I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs,
instead of bungees.
I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets.
In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held,
but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out.
As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a
longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether
from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor
visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here.
Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done
in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind?
Thanks.
< BR>
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