Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:40 AM - Red Betsy (walt evans)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Weight of a completed wing (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
3. 07:31 AM - Re: Weight of a completed wing (Rick Holland)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: Weight of a completed wing (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
5. 07:41 AM - Re: Weight of a completed wing (BARNSTMR@aol.com)
6. 08:58 AM - Electric alternatives running an A65 (Rock-a-Wing)
7. 09:01 AM - More "height "discussion-- focus on cabanes (Tim Willis)
8. 09:01 AM - More "height "discussion-- focus on cabanes (Tim Willis)
9. 09:55 AM - Re: Electric alternatives running an A65 (Rcaprd@aol.com)
10. 10:37 AM - Re: Electric alternatives running an A65 (Rock-a-Wing)
11. 03:50 PM - Cabane info for Tim Willis (Mike Luther)
12. 05:00 PM - Re: Cabane info for Tim Willis (Isablcorky@aol.com)
13. 07:22 PM - Re: Cabane info for Tim Willis (Mike Luther)
Message 1
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Got wondering about "Red Betsy" Guess it's still making it's way around the country.
Out on the west coast right now.
For you newer guys, This movie has a Pietenpol in it. Not alot of scenes, but
good shots.
Here's the site where you can download the Trailer. Also follow show times
http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of a completed wing |
Rick,
My wings are covered with Ceconite 102. Dope is through the penetration coat
only, no silver, and no color. Weight with the cables inside is 59 pounds
each. I did some rough preliminary W&B stuff on mine. I have put out the link
below with a file I created to estimate the engine location.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=53
Hope this helps.
Terry B
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of a completed wing |
Thank you Terry, how about the center section? Nice work with the spread
sheet.
Rick H.
On 2/25/06, BARNSTMR@aol.com <BARNSTMR@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Rick,
> My wings are covered with Ceconite 102. Dope is through the penetration
> coat only, no silver, and no color. Weight with the cables inside is 59
> pounds each. I did some rough preliminary W&B stuff on mine. I have put
> out the link below with a file I created to estimate the engine location.
>
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=3D53
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Terry B
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of a completed wing |
OH... the center section cables and cabanes were included with the fuselage
weight.
Terry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Weight of a completed wing |
center section not covered.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Electric alternatives running an A65 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca@us.army.mil>
I heard a few are using small wind generators but, Has anyone tried using a small
solar panel to keep their battery charged, would it handle a Transponder,
Handheld radio and Portable Garmin GPS unit.
John [Question] [Rolling Eyes]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14931#14931
Message 7
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| Subject: | More "height "discussion-- focus on cabanes |
> You may recall the "height" discussion a week or so ago about how a passenger
would get into the front of a Piet. There was good advice given on doors, hardware
and cabanes. Let's focus a moment just on cabanes.
Advice was given to make the cabanes " a couple of inches longer." I have looked
over my entire blueprint set several times, but have found no dimension for
the cabanes. I have seen some cabanes on a semi-finished Piet that, as I recall,
had a 21" front cabane length and 20" rear cabane. That aircraft also
had a small passenger door.
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. First what is "normal" for cabane length? What is spelled out by BP, and
where? (For instance, is it in a "Flying and Glider Manual"?)
>
> 2. I am also seeing on a BP print a 2-degree incidence for the wing off the
front cabane. (This is on Drawing 1, dated 1-19-33.) I read it as "2 degrees
positive incidence" (upwards at the front). Is this right, and if so, does this
mean:
a) that the line across the top of the cabanes, from front-to-rear, is inclined
2 degrees higher than the rear, thus 1 inch higher (28.75"ctr-to-ctr. X .0349);
or is it
b) 2 degrees positive angle of incidence for the "wing," as measured from the
chord of the airfoil to the top longeron, which would yield a much smaller difference?
>
> 3. How high (give me inches, pls, both Front and Rear) has everyone made their
cabanes, and why?
>
> 4. What is the highest you have seen on anyone's plane?
>
> 5. Has anyone experimented with longer and shorter cabanes, either both Front
and Rear, or changing the angle by changing one vs. the other? (I am talking about
changing it on the same aircraft, and noting what happened.) Or, for instance,
have you flown someone else's plane with different length cabanes and noted differences
in piloting the craft that you believed were likely due to differential
cabane lengths?
>
> 6. If you were to change this one factor on your plane--length of the cabanes--
what would you do differently, and why?
>
> 7. In an extreme case, if someone made both cabanes 6 inches taller than the
BP standard, what would be the negatives?
> Since this might allow a big guy easier entry into the front seat, how do these
negatives compare with the negatives (e.g., loss of strength or gained weight,
complexity) in adding a door?
> What would be the flying considerations from such tall cabanes-- such as: Handling?
Aileron control? Slips? Landing configurations? More or less turbulence?
Rudder masking?
> Would anything other than visibility and entry be made more positive by so
much higher cabanes?
>
> As you can see, I am trying to come at this problem from several different angles,
to bound the problems, but answer any way that makes sense to you. And
please bear, as you have, with a newbie to Piets and aircraft construction.
Thanks,
>
> Tim
> strategyguy536@yahoo.com
> timothywillis@earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
Message 8
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| Subject: | More "height "discussion-- focus on cabanes |
> You may recall the "height" discussion a week or so ago about how a passenger
would get into the front of a Piet. There was good advice given on doors, hardware
and cabanes. Let's focus a moment just on cabanes.
Advice was given to make the cabanes " a couple of inches longer." I have looked
over my entire blueprint set several times, but have found no dimension for
the cabanes. I have seen some cabanes on a semi-finished Piet that, as I recall,
had a 21" front cabane length and 20" rear cabane. That aircraft also
had a small passenger door.
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> 1. First what is "normal" for cabane length? What is spelled out by BP, and
where? (For instance, is it in a "Flying and Glider Manual"?)
>
> 2. I am also seeing on a BP print a 2-degree incidence for the wing off the
front cabane. (This is on Drawing 1, dated 1-19-33.) I read it as "2 degrees
positive incidence" (upwards at the front). Is this right, and if so, does this
mean:
a) that the line across the top of the cabanes, from front-to-rear, is inclined
2 degrees higher than the rear, thus 1 inch higher (28.75"ctr-to-ctr. X .0349);
or is it
b) 2 degrees positive angle of incidence for the "wing," as measured from the
chord of the airfoil to the top longeron, which would yield a much smaller difference?
>
> 3. How high (give me inches, pls, both Front and Rear) has everyone made their
cabanes, and why?
>
> 4. What is the highest you have seen on anyone's plane?
>
> 5. Has anyone experimented with longer and shorter cabanes, either both Front
and Rear, or changing the angle by changing one vs. the other? (I am talking about
changing it on the same aircraft, and noting what happened.) Or, for instance,
have you flown someone else's plane with different length cabanes and noted differences
in piloting the craft that you believed were likely due to differential
cabane lengths?
>
> 6. If you were to change this one factor on your plane--length of the cabanes--
what would you do differently, and why?
>
> 7. In an extreme case, if someone made both cabanes 6 inches taller than the
BP standard, what would be the negatives?
> Since this might allow a big guy easier entry into the front seat, how do these
negatives compare with the negatives (e.g., loss of strength or gained weight,
complexity) in adding a door?
> What would be the flying considerations from such tall cabanes-- such as: Handling?
Aileron control? Slips? Landing configurations? More or less turbulence?
Rudder masking?
> Would anything other than visibility and entry be made more positive by so
much higher cabanes?
>
> As you can see, I am trying to come at this problem from several different angles,
to bound the problems, but answer any way that makes sense to you. And
please bear, as you have, with a newbie to Piets and aircraft construction.
Thanks,
>
> Tim
> strategyguy536@yahoo.com
> timothywillis@earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electric alternatives running an A65 |
In a message dated 2/25/2006 10:59:53 AM Central Standard Time,
john.rocca@us.army.mil writes:
I heard a few are using small wind generators but, Has anyone tried using a
small solar panel to keep their battery charged, would it handle a
Transponder, Handheld radio and Portable Garmin GPS unit.
John [Question] [Rolling Eyes]
John,
Spring of '04 I installed a small solar panel about 9" X 14" (photovoltaic
cell) on the top of the wing, just to the port side of the cockpit. I bought
it from Harbor Freight for about $20. I removed the plastic frame, protected
the sharp glass edge with several layers of electrical tape, installed it
between the ribs, and used 2" fabric tape to retain the panel. The battery is
a
small sealed battery with spade terminals (about $20 from Interstate Battery)
and runs the smoke pump, GPS, and handheld ICOM 5 radio. The solar panel is a
trickle charge, and might barely keep up with the GPS & handheld, but it will
not keep up if I do a lot of Smokin'. It definitely helps though. Drawback,
is it needs to be facing directly into the sun to be at peak efficiency, so
when I tie down, I try to position the plane so the cell receives direct
sunlight, and leave the 4 amp breaker pushed in.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
converting sunlight into Smoke !!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electric alternatives running an A65 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca@us.army.mil>
Thxs Chuck-
By chance are you running a Facet pump or some type of car windshield pump.
Would like to see this set upperhaps, in your next up coming grammy award winning
video [Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14949#14949
Message 11
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| Subject: | Cabane info for Tim Willis |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mike Luther <luther@gci.net>
Hi Tim,
I just took another look at my plans to see where I came up with my cabane length,
and you are correct, there aren't any definite numbers, except for the 2 degree
wing incidence. So, then I was wondering where I came up with my numbers.
On page 75 of the Pietenpol Manual the answer to the first question reads: "Looking
at the plans the rear cabane strut is 1" shorter than the front cabane strut:
the distance between the two is 28.75" (this would then be 2 degrees)
My front cabane strut is 23 1/4 inch and my rear cabane strut is 22 1/4 inch.
I am 5'8" and this configuration gives me 4 1/2" of space between the top of my
head and the bottom of the wing center section, when I am sitting in the pilot
seat.
I am still flexible enough to use the "throw your leg over and slide under the
wing" technique for getting into my Piet, but I truly understand somebody's need
to have doors, hinged center sections, foot-cups, etc.
Another interesting consideration is the fact that I can roll my fuselage in and
out of my "standard size" single car garage and still have 1/2" clearance between
the top of the fuel cap and the bottom of the open garage door.
Hope this info helps.
Mike Luther
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane info for Tim Willis |
In a message dated 2/25/2006 5:51:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
luther@gci.net writes:
I just took another look at my plans to see where I came up with my cabane
length, and you are correct, there aren't any definite numbers, except for the
2 degree wing incidence. So, then I was wondering where I came up with my
numbers.
Please, look carefully and you will find all the dimensions for building on
the 1934 Hoopman plans. I've read for years builders complaining and accusing
BHP for publishing incomplete plans. JUST READ.
For your latest (aren't) I refer you to the plan sheet "Complete wing strut
details for improved air camper" Dated 3-26-34. (That's 5 months before I rode
in a Model A Ford rumble seat from Shreveport, La to Chicago, Ill to take in
the 1934 Worlds Fair) 12 yrs old.
This plate (sheet) shows the tail skid details in the upper right quarter of
the plate. Carefully look to the left of that diagram past two vertical lines
and you will clearly see the cabane strut outlines. and to the immediate
left of this you will see two vertical lines with arrows at either ends stating
Front Strut 21 1/4 and Rear Strut 20 1/4. Need I say more.
I'm in no way attempting to be a smartie as that is the last thing I am but
I do get a bit tired of those who want to critique the old plans as they are
lacking. Mr Piet and Hoop assumed that most attempting to build an aircraft
knew how to read mechanical drawings and professed enough mechanical ability to
choose and use proper hand and mechanical tools.
Someone who hopes he can finish what he has started
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cabane info for Tim Willis |
Hi guys:
Thanks to Isablcorky. I stand corrected. Drawing number 6 is the answer. Drawing
number 1 that shows an elevation view of the fuselage and cabanes and center
section is not the answer.
Mike Luther
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane info for Tim Willis
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2006 5:51:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> luther@gci.net writes:
>
> I just took another look at my plans to see where I came up with
> my cabane
> length, and you are correct, there aren't any definite numbers,
> except for the
> 2 degree wing incidence. So, then I was wondering where I came
> up with my
> numbers.
>
>
>
>
> Please, look carefully and you will find all the dimensions for
> building on
> the 1934 Hoopman plans. I've read for years builders complaining
> and accusing
> BHP for publishing incomplete plans. JUST READ.
> For your latest (aren't) I refer you to the plan sheet "Complete
> wing strut
> details for improved air camper" Dated 3-26-34. (That's 5 months
> before I rode
> in a Model A Ford rumble seat from Shreveport, La to Chicago, Ill
> to take in
> the 1934 Worlds Fair) 12 yrs old.
> This plate (sheet) shows the tail skid details in the upper right
> quarter of
> the plate. Carefully look to the left of that diagram past two
> vertical lines
> and you will clearly see the cabane strut outlines. and to the
> immediate
> left of this you will see two vertical lines with arrows at
> either ends stating
> Front Strut 21 1/4 and Rear Strut 20 1/4. Need I say more.
> I'm in no way attempting to be a smartie as that is the last thing
> I am but
> I do get a bit tired of those who want to critique the old plans
> as they are
> lacking. Mr Piet and Hoop assumed that most attempting to build an
> aircraft
> knew how to read mechanical drawings and professed enough
> mechanical ability to
> choose and use proper hand and mechanical tools.
>
> Someone who hopes he can finish what he has started
>
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