---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/03/06: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: tint for dope? (Philip_Miller) 2. 01:27 AM - Re: I've been robbed (Wizzard187@aol.com) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: I've been robbed (Dick Navratil) 4. 05:27 AM - Barber Airport happenings [off-topic] (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 06:59 AM - Google Earth (off topic) (Bill Church) 6. 07:11 AM - Re: Google Earth (off topic) (Bill Church) 7. 07:12 AM - Re: Google Earth (off topic) (Jim Markle) 8. 07:54 AM - RE. 1/4X1/2 CAPSTRIP (Norman Neff) 9. 07:55 AM - Re: Feedback from my local EAA chapter on 1/4" x 1/2" (Glenn Thomas) 10. 08:00 AM - Landing on paved runways (Glenn Thomas) 11. 10:00 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Galen Hutcheson) 12. 10:19 AM - Re: Landing on paved runways (harvey rule) 13. 01:33 PM - 1/4 x 1/4 rib material (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 14. 06:12 PM - Re: I've been robbed (Rcaprd@aol.com) 15. 06:32 PM - Re: 1/4 x 1/4 rib material; rib design & construction (Graham Hansen) 16. 07:07 PM - Re: Barber Airport happenings [off-topic] (Kip and Beth Gardner) 17. 10:06 PM - Re: Landing on paved runways (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tint for dope? From: "Philip_Miller" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Philip_Miller" For model airplanes, we use RIT dye disolved in thinner, then add the dope. The color that comes out is amazing. Reds, blues, greens, are all quite brilliant - if that's what your looking for. Put it on the structure underneath, and use clear dope on the coverin and you get color coded structure under a clear covering. Looks good on antique models. I've never used it with epoxy though, and I intend to seal my Piet with epoxy as Poly-Fiber recommends. -------- Phil Miller PietenVair Altadena, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19319#19319 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:42 AM PST US From: Wizzard187@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I've been robbed Gang, Does anyone know how to start a VCR and camera with a motion detector? Seems like a good system for long term protection. Ken Conrad with a farm house that has been ripped in cool Iowa ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:51 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I've been robbed After several thefts at my business, I installed hidden cameras with a digital recorder. There are several very inexpesive ones out there. Even models that will link to your computer to view from remote locations. Dont worry about color, get low light, high resolution. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Wizzard187@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I've been robbed Gang, Does anyone know how to start a VCR and camera with a motion detector? Seems like a good system for long term protection. Ken Conrad with a farm house that has been ripped in cool Iowa ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:05 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Barber Airport happenings [off-topic] --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Hey, Mike Cuy- Do you know these guys? Don't you operate out of Barber Field? [from AOPA eNews]: "Two Ohio men have a dream of building a helium-aided 990-foot-long lifting vehicle that can hoist 200 tons or more of supplies in a 150-foot-long cargo bay. While their ultimate goal is the larger vehicle, they also plan to offer intermediate-size hybrid aircraft. Robert Rist, originator of the idea, and co-president Brian Martin, now have interest from the military and aerospace industry in their project. They have raised about $500,000, mostly from friends, but will need $100 million to develop the largest vehicle. The smallest could cost less than $500,000 to purchase and is claimed to operate for $250 an hour, while the largest will cost less than $87 million. The vehicle is called a Dynalifter and is built by their firm, Ohio Airships. But first the one-eighth-scale model must fly, and it is ready and waiting in its hangar at Barber Airport in Alliance, Ohio. Forrest Barber, owner of the airport, will step into an ultralight cockpit slung beneath the shark-like 110-foot-long body and power up two Rotax engines for the first flight this spring. The ground at the grass-runway airport must firm up enough for the flight test. Half the weight of the present 2,600-pound vehicle is lifted by helium contained in 30 cells." do not archive Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Google Earth (off topic) From: "Bill Church" Hey everyone, Remember about a year ago there was discussion on the list about Google's latest free service called Google Maps? Did you know they have another, more powerful and user-friendly version called Google Earth? It's very easy to navigate anywhere on earth, with satellite images (some high definition, some not) of the entire earth's surface. Unfortunately, Brodhead is in a low definition area, but many airports and other interesting spots are not. It does require a FREE download of about 11Megs, but it's very cool (there are two, more advanced levels available for a yearly fee, but I don't know what extras they offer for the money). I found that by manipulating your mouse, you can use it to simulate low and slow flying over any part of the world. You zoom in to a low level (the display tells you how high above the earth your "eye" is), then click and hold the middle mouse button while you move the mouse to change the angle of view. Then, click and hold the left mouse button and slide the mouse to "drag the earth" in the direction you want to "travel" and release the mouse button, and Voila! you are flying. For a little treat, punch in the following coordinates (either in Google Earth or Google Maps) 52 20 10.87N, 0 11 43.34W. Some guy in Britain was looking for his house, and found this little time warp surprise. It seems that the satellite photo was snapped just as a refurbished Lancaster bomber was flying over. Have fun. Bill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Google Earth (off topic) From: "Bill Church" Oh yeah, Here's the link to get Google Earth: http://earth.google.com/ click in the upper right corner where it says Get Google Earth Free Version (oops, sorry) Bill ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:38 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Google Earth (off topic) Also, tilt the view down and "fly" through the Grand Canyon....the satellite picture of that area has enough resolution for a terrific 3D view...and you can actually pick out the switch back hiking trails going up and down the sides of the hills.... Very cool. Jim Markle Plano, TX 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Google Earth (off topic) Hey everyone, Remember about a year ago there was discussion on the list about Google's latest free service called Google Maps? Did you know they have another, more powerful and user-friendly version called Google Earth? It's very easy to navigate anywhere on earth, with satellite images (some high definition, some not) of the entire earth's surface. Unfortunately, Brodhead is in a low definition area, but many airports and other interesting spots are not. It does require a FREE download of about 11Megs, but it's very cool (there are two, more advanced levels available for a yearly fee, but I don't know what extras they offer for the money). I found that by manipulating your mouse, you can use it to simulate low and slow flying over any part of the world. You zoom in to a low level (the display tells you how high above the earth your "eye" is), then click and hold the middle mouse button while you move the mouse to change the angle of view. Then, click and hold the left mouse button and slide the mouse to "drag the earth" in the direction you want to "travel" and release the mouse button, and Voila! you are flying. For a little treat, punch in the following coordinates (either in Google Earth or Google Maps) 52 20 10.87N, 0 11 43.34W. Some guy in Britain was looking for his house, and found this little time warp surprise. It seems that the satellite photo was snapped just as a refurbished Lancaster bomber was flying over. Have fun. Bill ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:33 AM PST US From: Norman Neff Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE. 1/4X1/2 CAPSTRIP Stick to the plans t.e may break between aielerons [BPA 1980's] regards NORMAN --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Feedback from my local EAA chapter on 1/4" x 1/2" From: "Glenn Thomas" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" I'm sticking with 1/4" x 1/2" but since the gentelman who agreed to test-fly it when I'm done made the recommendation to go with 1/4" x 1/4", knowing he will be in it the first time it takes to the air, made me wonder about saving weight here. Would probably work but I don't have enough background in this area to rely on any guess-work. Tomorrow I'm going down to work on the Pober Jr. Ace with my new area building contact. I'm sure the topic will come up again tomorrow. Thanks! -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19355#19355 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways From: "Glenn Thomas" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who tried to talk me out of building a Piet) and he said he landed the one that he test flew last year on a paved runway. He said there aren't any grass strips in Connecticut. I haven't heard of anyone doing this yet. Would the J3 cub style landing gear (like Chuck has on his plane) be a must for this type of scenario? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:47 AM PST US From: Galen Hutcheson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Glenn, landing a tail-wheel airplane does take more experience that tri-gears require. Landing on paved runways only complicates the problem. Getting the gear straight (tracking straight) would be very important. Having some differential braking is also helpful. But nothing is as good as good old practice, practice, practice... Tail wheel planes are not the demons some make them out to be, but they do need some respect. Don't listen to the evils of tail wheels, it will only plant the seed of doubt in your mind and make it harder to adjust to them. Get with an experienced tailwheel pilot and do a lot of work. Best wishes. Doc (H) --- Glenn Thomas wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" > > > At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who > tried to talk me out of building a Piet) and he said > he landed the one that he test flew last year on a > paved runway. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:31 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule If your having problems with tracking on the ground ,just taxi fast enough to get that tail wheel off the ground,then when you get to where you want to be just slam on those brakes!No problem eh guys!;) Galen Hutcheson wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson > > Glenn, landing a tail-wheel airplane does take more > experience that tri-gears require. Landing on paved > runways only complicates the problem. Getting the > gear straight (tracking straight) would be very > important. Having some differential braking is also > helpful. But nothing is as good as good old practice, > practice, practice... > > Tail wheel planes are not the demons some make them > out to be, but they do need some respect. Don't > listen to the evils of tail wheels, it will only > plant the seed of doubt in your mind and make it > harder to adjust to them. Get with an experienced > tailwheel pilot and do a lot of work. > > Best wishes. > > Doc (H) > > --- Glenn Thomas wrote: > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" > > > > > > At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who > > tried to talk me out of building a Piet) and he said > > he landed the one that he test flew last year on a > > paved runway. > > > > -------- > > Glenn Thomas > > N????? > > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19358#19358 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:18 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1/4 x 1/4 rib material --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) A year or two ago someone posted that he recovered ( or helped recover ) a couple of Piets that were around 30 years old and found that the cap strips sagged down between the diagonal bracing. I always thought that the Piet ribs looked like they ought to have more bracing with the joints closer together. but I built mine to the plans. If 1/4 x 1/2 sagg over time, I would bet 1/4 x 1/4 start sagging much sooner. Chuck: sorry to hear that you had been robbed. I useto take my kids shooting and they would talk about it in school to their friends. Well, as the years go by, some friends got into gangs and drugs but their memory remained clear that I had a collection of military rifles and.......you guessed it. They were caught after they got rid of everything, but did no time for my loss because other crimes they committed were far worse. MORAL..Tell your kids to keep their mouths shut about anything you have at home. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:03 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I've been robbed In a message dated 3/3/2006 3:31:17 AM Central Standard Time, Wizzard187@aol.com writes: Gang, Does anyone know how to start a VCR and camera with a motion detector? Seems like a good system for long term protection. Ken Conrad with a farm house that has been ripped in cool Iowa Thank you all for your comments on this subject. It has been a real eye opener for me. I now have a lot more security in place, with more to come, including video surveillance. I suppose if you already have the camera and VCR, you could start it with one of those motion detector lights. Just tap in the wire inside the unit to turn on the camera and VCR. The type that Dick N. mentioned would be much better, though. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:03 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1/4 x 1/4 rib material; rib design & construction --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" As Leon Stefan said, the capstrips on Pietenpol ribs tend to sag between clusters with age. My Pietenpol is over 35 years old and the 1/4" x 1/2" inch spruce upper capstrips have been sagging for perhaps the past fifteen years. Not much, but enough to make a visible irregularity in the once-smooth curvature. What this does to the airplane's performance is difficult to measure; in fact, it seems to fly as well as it ever did. (But it sure doesn't look very good!) The rib truss is essentially a Warren type which has rather long unsupported capstrip lengths. Over time, fabric tension tends to straighten them. I regret not installing extra vertical members (see tip rib construction in plans) when I recovered my airplane twenty years ago. Since then, I repaired the wings from another Pietenpol which exhibited upper capstrip sagging, and installed 1/4" x 1/2" vertical members, using epoxy adhesive and a single 3/8" brass nail to hold one end in position until the epoxy cured. The other end fits in the gusseted cluster and is held in place by a dab of epoxy. No additional gussets are necessary. [If you are incorporating this modification when building a new set of ribs, take care to position the vertical members so they will clear the drag/antidrag bracing!] This reduces the unsupported length of the capstrip by about one half. Ergo, no more sagging problems. In my humble opinion, one should stay with the 1/4" x 1/2" rib material and install these extra vertical members. The small amount of extra weight is well-justified in providing long-term durability. Using 1/4" x 1/4" spruce isn't worth the weight savings--and would in any case make the addition of the extra vertical members essential to prevent sagging. Rather than skimping on the rib structure to save weight, significant weight savings could be achieved by using a formed .016", or .020", 2024 T3 leading edge instead of the very "sturdy" wooden leading edge. If this approach isn't acceptable, then remove excess wood from this part by routing. A vee-shaped aluminum channel for the trailing edge could save some weight. It really isn't a good idea to try to save a few ounces in the wing ribs--which are perhaps the most fragile parts of a fabric-covered light airplane. Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:25 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Barber Airport happenings [off-topic] --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner Hi Oscar, No, not Mike, ME! Frank Pavliga and Don Emch keep their Piets at Barber, Mike is now located somewhere northwest of Akron, I believe. As for the DynaLifter, I toured thier 'facility' (a giant hoop hangar) late last winter, and this is quite a neat project. Here's a brief description based on what I saw: The ship gets its strength and load lifting capacity (if I recall correctly, Bob & Brian say that their large version will have a greater load capacity than a C5-A) because its primary structure is a trussed aluminum beam that runs the entire length of the fuselage. Cables run from a central king post to the fore & aft ends of the beam to brace the whole thing. Basically, it's rigged like the horizontal boom of a large construction crane & can support significant weight along a large percentage of its length. Light aluminum c-channels are bent to form ribs that create the exterior shape, which is a lifting body. Two small wings extend from the bottom of the body at ~40-50% aft of the nose to provide additional lift & stability. All the structual parts are attached to, or tie back to, the central beam. Light fabric goes over the ribs to form the body shape. Inside, the ribs, beam and rigging form a series of bays, into which helium cells are placed. The helium reduces the 'effective' gross weight of the ship to the point where it will fly on the lift generated by the lifting body. It's not a lighter than air craft & takes off & lands like a conventional airplane. It won't be fast, but will be significantly faster than a blimp. It really is an innovative design - I've never seen anything like it. We hope to arrange for a tour of this project as part of the Corvair Fly-In in June. Forrest has done a taxi test, but the nose of ship suffered some storm damage late in 2005, and I am not sure of the repair status. This project might receive DARPA funding. Among other things, it has some interesting potential for UAV applications because it can easily carry enough fuel to have a very long flight duration. Regards, Kip Gardner (Corvair Fly-In, Barber Field (2D1), Alliance, OH, June 2-4, 2006.) At 7:26 AM -0600 3/3/06, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > >Hey, Mike Cuy- > >Do you know these guys? Don't you operate out of Barber Field? >[from AOPA eNews]: > >"Two Ohio men have a dream of building a helium-aided 990-foot-long >lifting vehicle that can hoist 200 tons or more of supplies in a >150-foot-long cargo bay. While their ultimate goal is the larger >vehicle, they also plan to offer intermediate-size hybrid aircraft. >Robert Rist, originator of the idea, and co-president Brian Martin, >now have interest from the military and aerospace industry in their >project. They have raised about $500,000, mostly from friends, but >will need $100 million to develop the largest vehicle. The smallest >could cost less than $500,000 to purchase and is claimed to operate >for $250 an hour, while the largest will cost less than $87 million. >The vehicle is called a Dynalifter and is built by their firm, Ohio >Airships. But first the one-eighth-scale model must fly, and it is >ready and waiting in its hangar at Barber Airport in Alliance, Ohio. >Forrest Barber, owner of the airport, will step into an ultralight >cockpit slung beneath the shark-like 110-foot-long body and power up >two Rotax engines for the first flight this spring. The ground at >the grass-runway airport must firm up enough for the flight test. >Half the weight of the present 2,600-pound vehicle is lifted by >helium contained in 30 cells." > >do not archive > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:48 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing on paved runways Hi Glenn Doc is right, keeping yourself proficient in taildraggers is a life insurance, in fact Budd Davisson in at least one of his articles, advises to take some hours a year (to tricicle pilots) to improve and mantain the landing skills. Read his great articles here: http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How I have (for myself) printed most of them and carry them in a 3 ring binder, I get them out of my truck, everytime a line has to be done or wait for the doctor, dentist, etc. All the material in his web page is 100% good aviation. Hope you enjoy. Saludos Gary Gower. Galen Hutcheson wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Glenn, landing a tail-wheel airplane does take more experience that tri-gears require. Landing on paved runways only complicates the problem. Getting the gear straight (tracking straight) would be very important. Having some differential braking is also helpful. But nothing is as good as good old practice, practice, practice... Tail wheel planes are not the demons some make them out to be, but they do need some respect. Don't listen to the evils of tail wheels, it will only plant the seed of doubt in your mind and make it harder to adjust to them. Get with an experienced tailwheel pilot and do a lot of work. Best wishes. Doc (H) --- Glenn Thomas wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" > > > At the last EAA meeting I talked with our DAR (who > tried to talk me out of building a Piet) and he said > he landed the one that he test flew last year on a > paved runway. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.