Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Pietenpol "knock-offs" (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 05:22 AM - Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Michael D Cuy)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Steve)
4. 07:04 AM - Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 07:25 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (harvey rule)
6. 07:26 AM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites ()
7. 07:37 AM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Ed G.)
8. 08:18 AM - bracing wire tape (Gary Martens)
9. 08:33 AM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Glenn Thomas)
10. 08:33 AM - Re: bracing wire tape (Phillips, Jack)
11. 08:48 AM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Michael D Cuy)
12. 09:08 AM - Re: plans and modifications (Vote John Bell)
13. 09:14 AM - Re: bracing wire tape (harvey rule)
14. 09:28 AM - Re: GN-1 vs. Piet Airfoil-- rephrase the Question (Hans Vander Voort)
15. 09:35 AM - Re: bracing wire tape (Hans Vander Voort)
16. 09:35 AM - cable crossing locations (Michael D Cuy)
17. 09:40 AM - stall speed/ gps compared (Michael D Cuy)
18. 09:41 AM - bad news with good (DJ Vegh)
19. 10:19 AM - Re: plans and modifications (Vote John Bell)
20. 10:24 AM - Re: bad news with good (Eric Williams)
21. 10:33 AM - Re: plans and modifications (DJ Vegh)
22. 10:53 AM - Re: plans and modifications (Tom Bernie)
23. 11:09 AM - Re: plans and modifications (DJ Vegh)
24. 11:43 AM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (bike.mike)
25. 12:07 PM - St. Croix advertisement with photo of my NON-St. Croix plans built Pietenpol Air Camper (Michael D Cuy)
26. 12:24 PM - Re: St. Croix advertisement with photo of my NON-St. Croix plans built Pietenpol Air Camper (Phillips, Jack)
27. 01:38 PM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Gary Gower)
28. 01:50 PM - Re: stall speed/ gps compared (jimboyer@direcway.com)
29. 02:04 PM - Plans and mods (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
30. 02:56 PM - Re: bracing wire tape (walt evans)
31. 02:58 PM - Re: stall speed/ gps compared (Steve Eldredge)
32. 05:01 PM - Re: mystery plane in Manhattan (Catdesign)
33. 05:48 PM - Re: Plans and mods (Kip and Beth Gardner)
34. 06:31 PM - Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites (Mike Whaley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Pietenpol "knock-offs" |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
"Catdesign" wrote-
>There is the Pietenpol knock-off that was sold by some other company,
>but I cant remember the name right now.
I may be mistaken, but that might be Chad Wille's "St. Croix Aircraft"
offering, which I understand is simply the Flying & Glider Manual plans run
off on a copier. If I'm wrong about this, I apologize in advance.
(PS- although I own all of the Flying & Glider manual reprints, my plans and
supplements were proudly purchased directly from the Pietenpol family!)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
For Pietenpol Air Camper Plans: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
For GN-1 Aircamper Plans: http://www.gregagn-1.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Diesel powered piet |
I wonder if anybody is going to convert the new Honda diesel to fly.
Steve G
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesign
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet
Diesel powered piet
http://www.wilksch.com/
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Message 4
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| Subject: | Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Hey, Mike-
I think I pointed this out before, but this site-
http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm
purportedly showing the "St. Croix Aircraft Pietenpol Aircamper", has a
picture of your Piet as the display image.
"People feel fame gives them some kind of privilege to walk up to you and
say anything to you, of any kind of natureand it wont hurt your
feelingslike its happening to your clothing." --Marilyn Monroe
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Diesel powered piet |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
How much does it weigh?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
Cc: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
Mike,
I suppose you would have to assume that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
When you have the most visually recognizable Piet out there it's bound
to happen. That doesn't excuse them though for advertising their product with
your work.
---- Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Hey, Mike-
>
> I think I pointed this out before, but this site-
> http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm
> purportedly showing the "St. Croix Aircraft Pietenpol Aircamper", has a
> picture of your Piet as the display image.
>
> "People feel fame gives them some kind of privilege to walk up to you and
> say anything to you, of any kind of natureand it wont hurt your
> feelingslike its happening to your clothing." --Marilyn Monroe
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Correction..That doesn't excuse them from advertiseing someone else's
product (The Pietenpol Families' plans) with your workmanship...Ed G.
>From: <glennthomas@charter.net>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>CC: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web
>Sites
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 7:26:15 -0800
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
>
>Mike,
>I suppose you would have to assume that imitation is the sincerest form of
>flattery. When you have the most visually recognizable Piet out there it's
>bound to happen. That doesn't excuse them though for advertising their
>product with your work.
>
>---- Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
><taildrags@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Hey, Mike-
> >
> > I think I pointed this out before, but this site-
> > http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm
> > purportedly showing the "St. Croix Aircraft Pietenpol Aircamper", has a
> > picture of your Piet as the display image.
> >
> > "People feel fame gives them some kind of privilege to walk up to you
>and
> > say anything to you, of any kind of natureand it wont hurt your
> > feelingslike its happening to your clothing." --Marilyn Monroe
> >
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > San Antonio, TX
> > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | bracing wire tape |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Martens <gary_martens@umanitoba.ca>
Do you tie the bracing wires together in the wing where they cross? If
so, tape? What kind of tape? gary martens, manitoba, canada
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@charter.net>
True
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web
Sites
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Correction..That doesn't excuse them from advertiseing someone else's
> product (The Pietenpol Families' plans) with your workmanship...Ed G.
>
> >From: <glennthomas@charter.net>
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >CC: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web
> >Sites
> >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 7:26:15 -0800
> >
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <glennthomas@charter.net>
> >
> >Mike,
> >I suppose you would have to assume that imitation is the sincerest form
of
> >flattery. When you have the most visually recognizable Piet out there
it's
> >bound to happen. That doesn't excuse them though for advertising their
> >product with your work.
> >
> >---- Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> ><taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > Hey, Mike-
> > >
> > > I think I pointed this out before, but this site-
> > > http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm
> > > purportedly showing the "St. Croix Aircraft Pietenpol Aircamper", has
a
> > > picture of your Piet as the display image.
> > >
> > > "People feel fame gives them some kind of privilege to walk up to you
> >and
> > > say anything to you, of any kind of nature-and it won't hurt your
> > > feelings-like it's happening to your clothing." --Marilyn Monroe
> > >
> > > Oscar Zuniga
> > > San Antonio, TX
> > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | bracing wire tape |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
I used nylon cable ties
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Martens
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bracing wire tape
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Martens
<gary_martens@umanitoba.ca>
Do you tie the bracing wires together in the wing where they cross? If
so, tape? What kind of tape? gary martens, manitoba, canada
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Guys-- I agree with you all completely.
I have a lousy feeling about this Chad Willie guy anyway, but I've never
given him flack for using my photo for his
advertisement. I'm not sure what he's been up to all these years by
exploiting the Pietenpol family, but that is between
him and our maker. I might ruffle his feathers offline just to see what
his response is.
My feeling is that if he doesn't give a flip what the Pietenpol family,
God, or Pietenpol enthusiasts think of him, then he
probably has no regard for what we think of him.
Mike C.
please archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Vote John Bell <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
I'm almost finished with the woodworking phase on my GN-1 built from the CAD plans.
The full-size fittings are great, but there some serious errors in the airframe
drawings that have caused me endless grief. They probably happened in
the conversion to CAD and were not caught in the editing process. Also, there
are no illustrations or 3D drawings that would be extremely helpful. As a result
I
use the proven community standard Piet plans.
My two cents -- good luck.
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
>From: The Schuerrs <schuerrs@charter.net>
>Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:17 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans and modifications
>
>I have found lots of different plans and mods for the piet. Who has the easiest
to decipher? How about Keri-Ann's three piece wing? Gas tank? Are there cad
drawings? Thanks.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: bracing wire tape |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
The AME that is working with me,manufactured silver dollar sized nylon
discs that he drilled holes into and we wired the disc in the middle
between the two cables.We just used safety wire for this application.The
discs are only about 1/16 width.
Gary Martens wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Martens <gary_martens@umanitoba.ca>
>
> Do you tie the bracing wires together in the wing where they cross? If
> so, tape? What kind of tape? gary martens, manitoba, canada
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: GN-1 vs. Piet Airfoil-- rephrase the Question |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Yesterday evening it was perfect spring flying weather here in Texas, no
need for winter gear and light wind.
Took my Pietenpol up and decided to fly a track to compare GPS and ASI's
more accurately.
I flew a triangular track with 1 mile each leg and a constant speed of 60
Mph on my cockpit ASI.
I flew the track twice with the same speed.
Started the track with my handheld GPS (Garmin E-trex Vista) and resetting
the trip log.
The trip log gives you an average speed over a track.
The results where as follows:
Cockpit (Pitot) ASI 60 Mph
Johnson (home made) ASI 67 Mph
GPS average over track 65 Mph
In a previous e-mail a stated a stall speed of 28 Mph (Cockpit ASI) but
most likely my Factory calibrated Cockpit ASI is reading a bout 5 Mph to
low.
And stall speed is closer to 33 Mph.
At least the Cockpit ASI is indicating lower than actual, its error is on
the safe side.
Hans
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: bracing wire tape |
Cc: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com, pietenpol-list@matronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Gary,
I used chaffing tape, left over from the covering process, the fabric tape
that goes underneath the poly fiber and over sharp metal corners.
Wrapped the tape around the cables a few times and then tied it all up
with safety wire.
You want to avoid metal to metal (cable to cable) contact as it could wear
out the cable.
Hans
Message 16
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| Subject: | cable crossing locations |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Gary in Canada,
If you go to Home Depot, Lowes, or the aquarium section of the Wal Mart pet
department, you'll find Tygon clear
plastic flexible tubing. You can cut two small lengths of that and then
slice them longways so they open up like
a hot dog bun. You slip those over each cable where they X cross and then
use small zip ties or tye-wraps around
the affair in the center. Keeps the cables from rubbing against each
other and the zip tie keeps the tubing in place.
I simply used leftover 1/4" black plastic tubing that I had for when I ran
my pitot tube hose out to the wing. Works just
as good.
Another place to protect the cables from each other is in your wings---the
drag and anti-drag cables or rods where they cross
in the various wing bays.
Mike C.
PS---- I little tip on running your airspeed flexible plastic tubing----- I
was able to hide my tubing 100% by running it from my
ASI backside out up, under, and THRU the middle of one of my rear cabane
struts up into the wing center section ! All I did
was chamfer a little 45 degree nip from the backside bottom of one of the
cabanes on a grinding wheel, filed and sanded the edges
smooth (as per Tony B. and metalworking musts) and it allowed for the
tubing to be routed right up there, sight unseen.
Message 17
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| Subject: | stall speed/ gps compared |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Nice calibration work, Hans and good flying I'll bet !
I did a comparison of my ASI with the gps doing several runs, speeds,
stalls, and it turns out that my
ASI is surprisingly on target.
With a 625 pound empty wt. short fuselage Piet with a stock 65 Cont.
engine, 72-42P prop I cruise
at 71 mph at 2150 rpm and power off stalls occur at 29 to 30 mph.
Mike C.
PS-- Lomcevak entry speeds vary, but I pretty much just stick with around
90......
Message 18
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| Subject: | bad news with good |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
well good news and bad.
bad? I have decided to quit the unmanned aerial video/surveillance
business.... had an electronics mishap yesterday that cost me a helicopter.
I need to let technology get a little better before I put expensive gear in
the air.
good news? I can now focus on the GN-1!!! YES!! I'm already getting
pumped to pull her out of the shop.. dust her off, fire up the Corvair and
get my motivational juices flowing. I think within a month I'll start
working on her again. Hey with any luck and alot of work I could be flying
by years end!
DJ Vegh
www.imagedv.com/aircamper
www.azchoppercam.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Vote John Bell <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
I should have said -- if I had to do it all over again, I would not build the GN1.
Regards,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
>From: Vote John Bell <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Mar 10, 2006 12:08 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans and modifications
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Vote John Bell <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
>
>I'm almost finished with the woodworking phase on my GN-1 built from the CAD plans.
The full-size fittings are great, but there some serious errors in the
airframe drawings that have caused me endless grief. They probably happened in
the conversion to CAD and were not caught in the editing process. Also, there
are no illustrations or 3D drawings that would be extremely helpful. As a
result I
>use the proven community standard Piet plans.
>
>My two cents -- good luck.
>
>Tom Bernie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: The Schuerrs <schuerrs@charter.net>
>>Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:17 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans and modifications
>>
>>I have found lots of different plans and mods for the piet. Who has the easiest
to decipher? How about Keri-Ann's three piece wing? Gas tank? Are there
cad drawings? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | bad news with good |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805@msn.com>
That sounds great DJ - glad you didn't sell it last year. Just wondering -
have you been keeping up with all the recent Corvair crank discussions and
William Wynne's nitriding requirements? I recall watching the videos of
your really nice engine running so you've probably taken care of all that
but I just wondered.
Eric
>From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: bad news with good
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:38:24 -0700
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
>well good news and bad.
>
>bad? I have decided to quit the unmanned aerial video/surveillance
>business.... had an electronics mishap yesterday that cost me a
>helicopter.
>I need to let technology get a little better before I put expensive gear in
>the air.
>
>good news? I can now focus on the GN-1!!! YES!! I'm already getting
>pumped to pull her out of the shop.. dust her off, fire up the Corvair and
>get my motivational juices flowing. I think within a month I'll start
>working on her again. Hey with any luck and alot of work I could be flying
>by years end!
>
>DJ Vegh
>www.imagedv.com/aircamper
>www.azchoppercam.com
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I worked with Bob Grega when he decided to create the CAD drawings. I can
tell you that while they still need work they are of great improvement over
the original had drawn plans. The hand drawn plans were in need of serious
work.
Bob contantly makes revisions to the plans and sends them out to plans
holders. In fact he called me a several weeks ago and we talked for well
over an hour abotu some changes that needed made. About 2 weeks later I got
the revisions in the mail.
These things take time and before long the new GN1 CAD plans will be nearly
error free.
DJ
>
They probably happened in the conversion to CAD and were not caught in the
editing process. Also, there are no illustrations or 3D drawings that would
be extremely helpful.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tom Bernie <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
DJ,
Next time you talk to him, point out that the horizontal scale view of the fuselage
shows all diagonal and vertical members aft of station 3 at 1" wide (a scale
view should show those members as 1/2 and 3/4 inch).
Regards,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
>From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
>Sent: Mar 10, 2006 1:28 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans and modifications
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
>
>I worked with Bob Grega when he decided to create the CAD drawings. I can
>tell you that while they still need work they are of great improvement over
>the original had drawn plans. The hand drawn plans were in need of serious
>work.
>
>Bob contantly makes revisions to the plans and sends them out to plans
>holders. In fact he called me a several weeks ago and we talked for well
>over an hour abotu some changes that needed made. About 2 weeks later I got
>the revisions in the mail.
>
>These things take time and before long the new GN1 CAD plans will be nearly
>error free.
>
>DJ
>
>>
>They probably happened in the conversion to CAD and were not caught in the
>editing process. Also, there are no illustrations or 3D drawings that would
>be extremely helpful.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: plans and modifications |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
I think he reads this list.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans and modifications
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tom Bernie <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
>
> DJ,
>
> Next time you talk to him, point out that the horizontal scale view of the
fuselage shows all diagonal and vertical members aft of station 3 at 1" wide
(a scale view should show those members as 1/2 and 3/4 inch).
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: DJ Vegh <djv@imagedv.com>
> >Sent: Mar 10, 2006 1:28 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans and modifications
> >
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
> >
> >I worked with Bob Grega when he decided to create the CAD drawings. I
can
> >tell you that while they still need work they are of great improvement
over
> >the original had drawn plans. The hand drawn plans were in need of
serious
> >work.
> >
> >Bob contantly makes revisions to the plans and sends them out to plans
> >holders. In fact he called me a several weeks ago and we talked for well
> >over an hour abotu some changes that needed made. About 2 weeks later I
got
> >the revisions in the mail.
> >
> >These things take time and before long the new GN1 CAD plans will be
nearly
> >error free.
> >
> >DJ
> >
> >>
> >They probably happened in the conversion to CAD and were not caught in
the
> >editing process. Also, there are no illustrations or 3D drawings that
would
> >be extremely helpful.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
Mike, et al,
A bunch of lawyers in Hollywood make a very handsome living by representing famous
people whose images are appropriated without permission. Famous faces may
be all over the place, but that doesn't give people the right to use
them without permission. You can't use Reese Witherspoon's face, for example,
on your product just because it was in every paper after the Academy Awards.
Famous objects that become associated with individual people can be in the same
boat. Your exemplary Piet is a very famous object in this community, even though
most of us don't know what you look like. On this list, your airplane IS
you. Pictures of it can be legally recognized as your image.
The people at St. Croix Aircraft use your image of your airplane for their financial
gain. You put a lot of effort into what became a beautiful example of an
Aircamper. It was YOUR effort, but they are reaping the benefit.
Furthermore, YOUR image is now associated with those folks whose business practices
you have no control over. If they cheat someone, or they sell someone something
that causes a harm to someone, YOU are associated with that. This is
wrong.
Mike, if you haven't given permission to the St.Croix folks to use your airplane
to advertise their stuff, you can make them stop. You can also force them to
share some of the benefit they have already reaped from your hard work.
I don't recommend that you see a lawyer right off, talk to the guys at St. Croix.
They may turn out to be perfectly reasonable. If not, then call a lawyer.
It's your airplane, not theirs.
Mike Hardaway
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> >
> > Guys-- I agree with you all completely.
> >
> > I have a lousy feeling about this Chad Willie guy anyway, but I've never
> > given him flack for using my photo for his advertisement. I'm not sure what
he's been up to all these years by
> > exploiting the Pietenpol family, but that is between him and our maker.
I might ruffle his feathers offline just to see
> > what his response is.
> >
> > My feeling is that if he doesn't give a flip what the Pietenpol family,
> > God, or Pietenpol enthusiasts think of him, then he probably has no regard
for what we think of him.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
Message 25
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| Subject: | St. Croix advertisement with photo of my NON-St. Croix |
plans built Pietenpol Air Camper
Cc: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Dear Dave---
Just a note to let you know that I've notice that on your Ultralight
news.com web site that Chad Willie of St. Croix
aircraft plans has a classified ad there which totally mis-represents my
aircraft--the aircraft that I built using authentic
Pietenpol Family plans, not the St. Croix plans.
The classified ad implies that my plane was built using St. Croix plans
from Willie which is totally in error and fraudulent.
I have not contacted Chad in this matter since this is your web site, not
his, and am requesting that
you remove or replace the photo of my aircraft, NX48MC with another
aircraft that more accurately might represent what Chad is
trying to advertise.
I in no way endorse Chad's classified ad being posted in conjunction with a
photo of my aircraft (taken by me as well)
and would not like my aircraft to be associated in any way, shape, or form
to the St. Croix outfit or Willie.
Best regards,
Michael Cuy
216-433-3159
Ohio, USA
Message 26
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| Subject: | St. Croix advertisement with photo of my NON-St. Croix |
plans built Pietenpol Air Camper
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Attaboy, Mikeee
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:07 PM
Cc: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: St. Croix advertisement with photo of my
NON-St. Croix plans built Pietenpol Air Camper
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Dear Dave---
Just a note to let you know that I've notice that on your Ultralight
news.com web site that Chad Willie of St. Croix
aircraft plans has a classified ad there which totally mis-represents my
aircraft--the aircraft that I built using authentic
Pietenpol Family plans, not the St. Croix plans.
The classified ad implies that my plane was built using St. Croix plans
from Willie which is totally in error and fraudulent.
I have not contacted Chad in this matter since this is your web site,
not
his, and am requesting that
you remove or replace the photo of my aircraft, NX48MC with another
aircraft that more accurately might represent what Chad is
trying to advertise.
I in no way endorse Chad's classified ad being posted in conjunction
with a
photo of my aircraft (taken by me as well)
and would not like my aircraft to be associated in any way, shape, or
form
to the St. Croix outfit or Willie.
Best regards,
Michael Cuy
216-433-3159
Ohio, USA
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
Mike,
I am a peace person :-) So here is my point of view:
Would a good option could be that you write Ultralightsnews (where the add is)?
Tell them that YOUR Piet is not a St, Croix plans built and you will like your
airplane photo changed...
I bet they will ask for an example build trough their plans.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
"bike.mike" <bike.mike@charter.net> wrote:
Mike, et al,
A bunch of lawyers in Hollywood make a very handsome living by representing famous
people whose images are appropriated without permission. Famous faces may
be all over the place, but that doesn't give people the right to use
them without permission. You can't use Reese Witherspoon's face, for example,
on your product just because it was in every paper after the Academy Awards.
Famous objects that become associated with individual people can be in the same
boat. Your exemplary Piet is a very famous object in this community, even
though most of us don't know what you look like. On this list, your airplane
IS you. Pictures of it can be legally recognized as your image.
The people at St. Croix Aircraft use your image of your airplane for their financial
gain. You put a lot of effort into what became a beautiful example of
an Aircamper. It was YOUR effort, but they are reaping the benefit.
Furthermore, YOUR image is now associated with those folks whose business practices
you have no control over. If they cheat someone, or they sell someone
something that causes a harm to someone, YOU are associated with that. This is
wrong.
Mike, if you haven't given permission to the St.Croix folks to use your airplane
to advertise their stuff, you can make them stop. You can also force them to
share some of the benefit they have already reaped from your hard work.
I don't recommend that you see a lawyer right off, talk to the guys at St. Croix.
They may turn out to be perfectly reasonable. If not, then call a lawyer.
It's your airplane, not theirs.
Mike Hardaway
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> >
> > Guys-- I agree with you all completely.
> >
> > I have a lousy feeling about this Chad Willie guy anyway, but I've never
> > given him flack for using my photo for his advertisement. I'm not sure what
he's been up to all these years by
> > exploiting the Pietenpol family, but that is between him and our maker.
I might ruffle his feathers offline just to see
> > what his response is.
> >
> > My feeling is that if he doesn't give a flip what the Pietenpol family,
> > God, or Pietenpol enthusiasts think of him, then he probably has no regard
for what we think of him.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: stall speed/ gps compared |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com
What have you been smoking Mike?
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: stall speed/ gps compared
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
> Nice calibration work, Hans and good flying I'll bet !
>
> I did a comparison of my ASI with the gps doing several runs,
> speeds,
> stalls, and it turns out that my
>
> ASI is surprisingly on target.
>
>
> With a 625 pound empty wt. short fuselage Piet with a stock 65
> Cont.
> engine, 72-42P prop I cruise
>
> at 71 mph at 2150 rpm and power off stalls occur at 29 to 30 mph.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> PS-- Lomcevak entry speeds vary, but I pretty much just stick with
> around
> 90......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Schuerrs: I bought all of the Kerri Price mods plans. They are excellent
drawings. I only used the piano hinge ailerons, fuel tank and front
cockpit door. Dan (I think that was "his" name back then) was a regular
contributor to the Buckeye news letter and built a better than beautiful
Piet. I always wished the Pietenpol family had approached him to redraw
the Pietenpol plans. Speaking of the Price fiberglass fuel tank, at EAA
last month we had a frightening discussion about the govt. plans to put
alcohol in all gasoline. The rosins that stood up to gasoline may not
stand up to alcohol. One guy quoted an expert on the subject claims that
alcohol attacks aluminum and that you need to anodize the inside of
aluminum fuel tanks, al. fuel lines etc, More crap o be worried about.
Leon S. Worried about more crap in Kansas.
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: bracing wire tape |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
My mentor explained it this way. Use rib stitching cord, make about three
turns around the crotch of the "X", then about three whips horizontally,
around the cord in a horizontal plane. This gives a "standoff" of about 1/8"
and separates the cables. Pull the whole "knot" tight, and it will fall into
place. Double knots and cut the ends. Dab the whole thing with some varnish.
comes out great. I used this where ever two cables crossed. Wing
cables,cabane cables,wing cables. Keeps cables from rubbing each other, and
it's authentic from the 20's.
Tried and true for about 100 years.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Martens" <gary_martens@umanitoba.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bracing wire tape
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gary Martens
> <gary_martens@umanitoba.ca>
>
> Do you tie the bracing wires together in the wing where they cross? If so,
> tape? What kind of tape? gary martens, manitoba, canada
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | stall speed/ gps compared |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Eldredge" <steve@byu.edu>
I've had a hard time getting more than one or two revolutions in the
Lom... Just not enough weight and too much drag going end over end...
Steve E
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: stall speed/ gps compared
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Nice calibration work, Hans and good flying I'll bet !
I did a comparison of my ASI with the gps doing several runs, speeds,
stalls, and it turns out that my
ASI is surprisingly on target.
With a 625 pound empty wt. short fuselage Piet with a stock 65 Cont.
engine, 72-42P prop I cruise
at 71 mph at 2150 rpm and power off stalls occur at 29 to 30 mph.
Mike C.
PS-- Lomcevak entry speeds vary, but I pretty much just stick with
around
90......
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: mystery plane in Manhattan |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
mystery solved
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/LM/LM028-77WATERSTREET.htm
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv@imagedv.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: mystery plane in Manhattan
> Found this on Google earth today while working on a project for my
> employer.
>
> what in Sam Hill is an airplane doing on the roof of a high rise in
> Manhattan?
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Plans and mods |
Cc: pietenpol-list@matronics.com, lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
>Speaking of the Price fiberglass fuel tank, at EAA
>last month we had a frightening discussion about the govt. plans to put
>alcohol in all gasoline. The rosins that stood up to gasoline may not
>stand up to alcohol. One guy quoted an expert on the subject claims that
>alcohol attacks aluminum and that you need to anodize the inside of
>aluminum fuel tanks, al. fuel lines etc, More crap o be worried about.
>Leon S. Worried about more crap in Kansas.
Leon,
Ethanol, the type of alcohol going into gasoline, will attack
polyester resins, but not epoxy resins. There's been discussion about
this on the list before.
As for the so-called 'expert' regarding aluminum, this is a WIDELY
held misconception (probably had its origins in the Oil Co's. early
resistance to ethanol as a gas additive, so they tried to scare
people into not wanting it.). Methanol is the stuff that corrodes
aluminum. It is used in race cars & model airplane engine fuel, but
not in other engine applications to any degree. Ethanol CAN corrode
magnesium and will affect natural rubber tubing, so it's not
recommended for use in vintage applications, such as older cars that
had carbs made of magnesium & rubber fuel lines.
In the automotive world, all cars built in the past 20 years or so
were designed to be OK with ethanol in the fuel , and many of their
fuel system components are made of aluminum - no problems. In fact,
all vehicles are warrantied to take gas with up to 10% Ethanol, but
most can actually take much higher percentages with no problems.
For about the past 10 years, all American car mfrs. have made "flex
fuel" vehicles that can run on gas with any % ethanol up to 85% &
"E85" gas is becoming more common. These models are not significantly
different from their regular vehicles & certainly not with regard to
aluminum components in the fuel system.
In fact, you can run just about any fuel-injected car on 'gas'
containing up to 40-50% ethanol with NO mods & no harm to the
aluminum components in the fuel system. I'm in the process of
building a still (legally!) to process agricultural wastes into
ethanol, which I will blend with gas up to about 45% to run my
'commuter' car. Eventually, I'll install a new mass flow computer
that will allow me to run on 100% alcohol.
Ethanol is going to become a component of virtually all
gasoline-based fuels, like it or not & the FAA would do everyone a
service by getting off its duff & formulating AD's to allow the
necessary mods to certificated aircraft to deal with it.
Kip Gardner
--
North Canton, OH
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Authentic Pietenpol and Grega GN-1 Plans Web Sites |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
I recall getting a phone call at work from these same characters last year.
(I work for a well-known homebuilt plane company.) They wanted us to send
them plans... if I recall, I think they even asked about getting a free or
discounted copy... so that they could make kits and parts etc. of the same
stuff we sell. That's basically what they do, as far as I can tell, although
I think they *may* have been the ones to develop the Piet Aerial biplane.
>From what I've picked up here and there, the "services" they offer aren't
really that outstanding, though that's more of an impression I've gotten
from others, not based on first-hand experience. It's not that we were
worried about a loss of business, but it's just pretty sad to me that
someone would have the audacity to actually do that and apparently not even
feel ashamed of it. Unless an "OEM" offers poor service, has outlandish
prices, or is involved with something that really goes against your
sensibilities, then why do business with someone who just kind of dabbles
around in other people's designs?
Funny, I just searched Google for more info and came across a nearly
identical discussion about St. Croix using Mike's Piet photo, from this list
in 2003.
(In the interests of full disclosure, I have also "borrowed" a photo of Mike
C.'s plane w/out prior permission... it was last year, for an April Fool's
Day "news release" about a new "sport-pilot version" of our biplane, which
was simplified to the point of looking just like Mike's Piet. Hopefully
Mike's forgiven me by now. 8 months later the boss finally noticed it and I
got reamed a new one, but hey, it was well worth it :)
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
> Mike,
> I suppose you would have to assume that imitation is the sincerest form of
flattery. When you have the most visually recognizable Piet out there it's
bound to happen. That doesn't excuse them though for advertising their
product with your work.
>
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