---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/12/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:51 AM - Re: Plans and mods (Kip and Beth Gardner) 2. 06:49 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Frank Metcalfe) 3. 07:18 AM - Re: Plans and mods (Mark Blackwell) 4. 08:18 AM - Bernard Pietenpol (TBYH@aol.com) 5. 08:24 AM - Price gas tank (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 6. 11:39 AM - Updates to my Web Site (Rcaprd@aol.com) 7. 02:39 PM - 3 piece wing (Richard Schreiber) 8. 02:39 PM - Steaming cap- strips (brian jardine) 9. 03:15 PM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (Dick Navratil) 10. 03:15 PM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (walt evans) 11. 03:21 PM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (gcardinal) 12. 03:28 PM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (Richard Schreiber) 13. 04:08 PM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 14. 06:32 PM - Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Rick Holland) 15. 06:44 PM - Front aluminum turtle deck attachment (Rick Holland) 16. 07:04 PM - Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment (jboatri@emory.edu) 17. 07:24 PM - Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment (Dick Navratil) 18. 07:42 PM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Dick Navratil) 19. 07:55 PM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Rick Holland) 20. 09:48 PM - Seeking input.... (Kenneth M. Heide) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:44 AM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans and mods Cc: , "The Schuerrs" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Kip and Beth Gardner Actually, "his" name was Gary Price. At some point a few yrs. ago 'he' became Keri-Ann Price. Doesn't change her plans any, but has been a little confusing to keep track of :). Kip Gardner At 10:28 PM -0600 3/11/06, The Schuerrs wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "The Schuerrs" > >What do you mean "Dan" WAS his name? >----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 4:03 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans and mods > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) >> >>Schuerrs: I bought all of the Kerri Price mods plans. They are excellent >>drawings. I only used the piano hinge ailerons, fuel tank and front >>cockpit door. Dan (I think that was "his" name back then) was a regular >>contributor to the Buckeye news letter and built a better than beautiful >>Piet. I always wished the Pietenpol family had approached him to redraw >>the Pietenpol plans. Speaking of the Price fiberglass fuel tank, at EAA >>last month we had a frightening discussion about the govt. plans to put >>alcohol in all gasoline. The rosins that stood up to gasoline may not >>stand up to alcohol. One guy quoted an expert on the subject claims that >>alcohol attacks aluminum and that you need to anodize the inside of >>aluminum fuel tanks, al. fuel lines etc, More crap o be worried about. >>Leon S. Worried about more crap in Kansas. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:29 AM PST US From: "Frank Metcalfe" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule > > How much does it weigh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:50 AM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans and mods --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) >> >> Schuerrs: I bought all of the Kerri Price mods plans. They are excellent >> drawings. I only used the piano hinge ailerons, fuel tank and front >> cockpit door. Dan (I think that was "his" name back then) was a regular >> contributor to the Buckeye news letter and built a better than beautiful >> Piet. I always wished the Pietenpol family had approached him to redraw >> the Pietenpol plans. Speaking of the Price fiberglass fuel tank, at EAA >> last month we had a frightening discussion about the govt. plans to put >> alcohol in all gasoline. The rosins that stood up to gasoline may not >> stand up to alcohol. One guy quoted an expert on the subject claims that >> alcohol attacks aluminum and that you need to anodize the inside of >> aluminum fuel tanks, al. fuel lines etc, More crap o be worried about. >> Leon S. Worried about more crap in Kansas. >> Well Leon in most places alcohol may already be in the gas, and it may not necessarily be listed on the pump that its in the gas. Its a fairly simple test to find out, but I am not really sure what you can do about it anymore. There was a time when you could drive down the street and get some without it. The days of 80 oct avgas for most places are long gone and 100ll may not be a viable option without the infamous TCP additive to deal with the extra lead. What I am going to do is to make sure I have as easy access to both inspection, maintenance and replacement of fuel system parts ect so I can hopefully head off problems if they occur. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:45 AM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Pietenpol Went to funeral of my cousin's wife's mother yesterday (Saturday, 3/11) at St. John's Evangelical Lutheran Church in Wykoff, MN. As we were walking out to the church cemetery one of my cousin's friends pointed out Bernard Pietenpol's (and his wife's) grave marker...so paid my respects there to the fellow who designed the great little airplane we all love and enjoy. My cousin's friend grew up near Cherry Grove and recalled seeing Bernard and his airplanes during the late 40s, 50s and 60s -- he never got a ride in one though. Maybe when mine is finished. On the way home we drove past Fountain, MN, where they now have one of Bernard's hangars at the Fillmore County Museum...but was closed. I imagine it will be open during summer months. Some great aviation history in that area...nearby St. Charles, MN, was home to Art Donahue -- one of only seven Americans to fly in combat with the RAF during the Battle of Britain...later earned the DFC flying Hurricanes in defense of Singapore in 1942. He returned to England and went back to flying Spits but was lost over the Channel after shooting up a Ju-88 on 9/11/1942. If anyone is interested, send me a buck ( to cover copying and postage) and I'll send you a copy of an article that I wrote about Art for the Battle of Britain Historical Society's annual magazine a couple years ago. By the way, I just finished reading a great little book called "Flyers" about the Wright Brothers by Noah Adams, who used to be on National Public Radio. Barnes & Noble had 'em on their special table for $5.98 (or was it $4.98)...a quick but great read and very interesting...learned a few things about the Wrights I hadn't known. Anyway, for $5 each I bought a few copies and gave 'em away to friends. It's starting to seem like spring here in the Great White North of the Upper Mississippi River region... As for my Piet, the fuselage is now suspended from basement ceiling joists while the straight axle landing gear spreader bars are being fabricated. This has cleared the workbench and so I have been working on the tail feathers...should have her on the landing gear soon! Regards to all, Fred Beseler 1619 Cass St. La Crosse, WI 54601 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:04 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Price gas tank --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Kip: You are right, I was wrong. His name was Gary. Dan Price is the man who makes al. heads and other performance parts for the Model A engine. My apologies to Dan. Just before I built my tank I called Gary to get some advice about fiberglassing since I had never done that before, when out of the blue he told me that he was :going threw "the change of life" , then went into some detail. and it wasn't the changes we all think about! (male menopause?) To each their own, I guess. The conversation cooled after that as I really didn't know what to say, so I wished him luck. What can you say to a man who is about to have his "junk" surgically removed? I built my tank with the gasoline proof polyester rosin at least 4 years ago and before I joined this list. It was also before the govt. demanded it be put in all gas, so I will probably start building another one. This one will probably be soldered galvanized steel. (turnplate? ) Kip is right, her drawings are first class. Nothing changed about that. And Kip thanks for all the info on alcohol. I haven't kept up on a lot of things since I haven't flown for several years. Leon S. A mans man. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:10 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Updates to my Web Site Hey All, I've been doing a lot of updating to my web site, especially the Wing page, and the Fuel page. I've got lots more planned. Eventually a page dedicated to Brodhead. In fact if anyone has pictures they would like to see there, and if the file is not too big, you can e-mail them directly to me, with all pertinate info about the pictures like who, what and when. I would also like to hear any suggestions to improve the site. Chuck G. http://nx770cg.com/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:19 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing I have stated building the center wing section from the Vi Kapler plans. I have a couple of questions that I am unclear on. First,.... Should the lower bolt on the aileron pulley support be an AN Bolt or a common wood screw? If I use a bolt, how do you get clearance with the 3/8" x 1-3/4" compression strut. Secondly,...I am using 3/4" spars on the center section and the main wing panels and my ribs are built for 3/4" spars. It appears that the center section spars do not have any plywood under the spar butt joint straps. The spar butt joint straps lie directly on the spruce spars. The 3/32" plywood is just a triangle below, but not under, the butt joint strap. The plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against. Am I reading the plans correctly? What has everyone else done? If the plans do call for the butt straps to be mounted on the raw spruce, would there be a problem with wood compression with time? Thanks, Rick Richard Schreiber lmforge@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:19 PM PST US From: brian jardine Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:50 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Most havent bothered with a steamer, I never did. I borrowed one of my wifes tall vases and filled with water and let the ribs set overnight. It's only the 12" on the top cap that have stress. After making many ribs, I even quit soaking them. I have only broken 2 cap strips. Just be sure to ask the wife first, before borrowing the vase. Thats where the ribs really get broken. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: brian jardine To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:50 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Brian, You don't really need a "steamer". I did like others,,,got a piece of 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" PVC pipe about 18" long, and secured the bottom with either a PVC cap or a wooden base. When it's time to bend cap strips, I would fill the tea kettle with water and boil. when I heard the whistle, fill the PVC pipe like a big tea cup and add the cap strips. After about 10 minutes the strips are ready and they bend like taffy. I usually did one a night. Pulled last nights out of the jig and did the other side gussets, then put this capstrip in and bent it, and made the next one. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: brian jardine To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:56 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Hi Brian, No pictures but I simply used a 24" length of 3" copper pipe with a cap soldered on one end. Used it to boil two cap strips at a time just before they went into the jig. You only need to boil the front 12 - 18 inches. Boil for 15 - 20 minutes and bend slowly. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: brian jardine To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:54 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Brian: I just used a 3 foot section of PVC pipe that was 1.5 to 2" in diameter. Cap one end with an end cap fitting. To soften the capstrips, stand the tube upright, boil enough water to fill the tube 3/4 full. Pour the hot water into the tube and then slide in the capstrip. Let the capstrip soak for about 1/2 hour, remove and then slide your capstrip into a bending form. Let the capstrip dry for 24 hours and then remove. This system worked well. All my capstrips formed easily. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: brian jardine Sent: 3/12/2006 4:41:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:23 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips If you have one, a Wagner wallpaper steamer hooked up to a piece of 3" PVC schedule 4 pipe works great. Perfect temperature and all you need is about 5 minutes of heat to make your cap-strip pliable enough to fit in your jig. Very neat and no mess. This idea comes from the esoteric world of skin on frame kayak building. Here my buddy Brian Nystrom uses one hooked up to a box made of foil face insulation board to steam ribs for a Greenland skin on frame kayak. http://community.webshots.com/photo/87936216/1088670558044194919LkzVTn michael silvius scarborough, maine ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:34 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:40 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment What is the best way to attach front aluminum turtle deck (covering the cowl tank area and front instrument panel)? Short wood screws into the longerons? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:21 PM PST US From: jboatri@emory.edu Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jboatri@emory.edu That's what our Piet has. Quoting Rick Holland : > What is the best way to attach front aluminum turtle deck (covering the cowl > tank area and front instrument panel)? Short wood screws into the longerons? > > > Thanks > > Rick > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:04 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment Rick I used SS screws every 1.5" on the sides of the turtle deck. First, I used # 6 wood screws to locate the exact position. Then I reamed the holes to accept a brass thread insert. They screw into the hole and accept a #8x32 screw. Inserts are available at most hardware stores. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment What is the best way to attach front aluminum turtle deck (covering the cowl tank area and front instrument panel)? Short wood screws into the longerons? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:18 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Hi again Problem is that most bike pumps and fittings leak a bit. We do a lot of pressure testing at work and some of the guidelines we use are; Pump to a pressure of no more than 4 psi. Pressure should maintain for 3 minutes. If using a bike pump, get adapters to adapt from your outlet and install a sensitive pressure gauge then a ball valve, then to the pump. Use dish soap and water to identify leaks. Have a grease pencil available to mark problems. To build the adapter you will need a pipe nipple to go from 1/4 or 3/8 npt, which ever you installed to a 1/4" Tee, a pressure gauge mounts there and another 1/4" nipple to a 1/4" ball valve. Then adapt to 1/8" with a bushing and 1/8" nipple. That should screw into a bike pump. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Wow Dick you really know your pipe fittings, thank you. Rick do not archive On 3/12/06, Dick Navratil wrote: > > Hi again > Problem is that most bike pumps and fittings leak a bit. We do a lot of > pressure testing at work and some of the guidelines we use are; Pump to a > pressure of no more than 4 psi. Pressure should maintain for 3 minutes. > If using a bike pump, get adapters to adapt from your outlet and install a > sensitive pressure gauge then a ball valve, then to the pump. Use dish soap > and water to identify leaks. Have a grease pencil available to mark > problems. > To build the adapter you will need a pipe nipple to go from 1/4 or 3/8 > npt, which ever you installed to a 1/4" Tee, a pressure gauge mounts there > and another 1/4" nipple to a 1/4" ball valve. Then adapt to 1/8" with a > bushing and 1/8" nipple. That should screw into a bike pump. > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:30 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank > > Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) > and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck > and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the > bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to > screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into > that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure > with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? > > Thanks > > Rick > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:04 PM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seeking input.... Members of the list: Fellow Pieter's: While reading through my WW conversion manual I came across a few good pages on carburetors. My interest is in what other builders are having success with when applying a gravity feed carb to their set-up. I like the Aero-Carb for instance, but do not know of any Pieter's using it. So here goes.....tell me what you are using or plan to use in your conversion of the Corvair engine. I am just wondering since I am out shopping for same used parts and you never know what comes your way! Just curious and seeking input! Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.