---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/13/06: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:28 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Jack T. Textor) 2. 05:43 AM - fuel tank testing (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 05:45 AM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (Hans Vander Voort) 4. 05:57 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Hans Vander Voort) 5. 05:59 AM - Re: Seeking input.... (MICHAEL SILVIUS) 6. 06:01 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Rick Holland) 7. 06:02 AM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (Steve Eldredge) 8. 06:07 AM - Bendix mag harness (Oscar Zuniga) 9. 06:54 AM - Re: fuel tank testing (gbowen@ptialaska.net) 10. 07:33 AM - Chad Willie St Croix (Sayre, William G) 11. 08:15 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Jack T. Textor) 12. 12:44 PM - Re: Steaming cap- strips (walt evans) 13. 01:02 PM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Bill Church) 14. 01:29 PM - Re: Chad Willie St Croix (Bill Church) 15. 02:25 PM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Ed G.) 16. 03:10 PM - Re: Plans and mods (Isablcorky@aol.com) 17. 03:58 PM - Re: Chad Willie St Croix (bike.mike) 18. 04:01 PM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Steve) 19. 05:03 PM - Inspirations from the Piet Net (Isablcorky@aol.com) 20. 05:32 PM - On a far more serious note (Isablcorky@aol.com) 21. 08:57 PM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank From: "Jack T. Textor" Rick, How did you find room for 17 gallons? Thanks, Jack Textor ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rick Holland Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 8:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:41 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank testing --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Jack asks- >How did you find room for 17 gallons? NX41CC has 16 gallons in the tank and I'm sure it could have been made a tad wider to get 17. With a Corvair or Continental, you don't need the magneto "shelf" behind the firewall, leaving plenty of room for a generous tank. As far as pressure testing your tank, you don't really need to run up the pressure. I've heard of just putting an inflated balloon over the filler neck and watching it over a day or so to see if the balloon deflates. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips From: Hans Vander Voort Brian, I used the BBQ setup, see attached pictures. (See attached file: BBQ Ribs.pdf) Hans brian jardine To Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips 03/12/2006 04:37 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Rick, I just used a Balloon, the some what larger Party Balloons are perfect. Seal of the tank, connect a 3/8' piece of tubing where the fuel line goes. Blow up the balloon (basket ball size) and quickly slip it over the 3/8" tubing, ti-off with a ti-wrap. Balloon will deflate some what until pressure in tank and balloon is equal. Let it sit overnight, if balloon is still inflated in the morning, you have a sealed tank, if not find the leak. If there is a leak it will deflate within the hour. B-T-W when you have you fuel tank installed you can test the whole fuel system, valves, gascolator the whole lot, the same way. Hans "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank 03/12/2006 08:30 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:27 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seeking input.... Ken: I believe DJ experienced some frustrations with the Aerocarb, but I may be wrong. There are at least 4 Stromberg NAS3b on ebay right now. I have been watching them over the last couple of weeks and most go for around $250.00. WW, in his manual indicates this is his choice for a gravity fed set up. The one with the 1&3/8" venturi yields the more favorable results. I found one recently rebuilt for that price from a local A&P. michael silvius scarborough, maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seeking input.... Members of the list: Fellow Pieter's: While reading through my WW conversion manual I came across a few good pages on carburetors. My interest is in what other builders are having success with when applying a gravity feed carb to their set-up. I like the Aero-Carb for instance, but do not know of any Pieter's using it. So here goes.....tell me what you are using or plan to use in your conversion of the Corvair engine. I am just wondering since I am out shopping for same used parts and you never know what comes your way! Just curious and seeking input! Ken Heide Fargo, ND Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:46 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank I am using the long fuselage plans and extended the front 6 inches (per Bernard's recommendation). It measures 17" deep x 17" wide x 16 1/2" high in front and 12 1/2" high in back. Could have easily have been 20 gallons by making it wider but I didn't figure I would need that much. You don't need the fuselage extension to get that much volume though, my fuel tank adviser, Mike Cuy has an almost 17 gallon tank in his standard fuselage cowl. Attached some pictures, made a small posterboard model, then a full size posterboard model, then cut, bent, and welded the aluminum. Still have to pressure test it, Will be a miracle if it doesn't have any leaks. Not real proud of the way the welds look, I am taking a couple of thin lengths of the .040 sheet I used for this to SNF and am going to ask one of the Lincoln or Miller PhD welding experts to demonstrate the way an 'expert' welds this stuff. Rick H. On 3/13/06, Jack T. Textor wrote: > > Rick, > How did you find room for 17 gallons? > Thanks, > Jack Textor > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rick Holland > Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 8:30 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank > > > Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) > and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck > and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the > bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to > screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into > that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure > with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? > > Thanks > > Rick > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips From: "Steve Eldredge" Just cap the end of a 2-3 inch dia pvc pipe and fill it with 18" of water and then add 1/2cup ammonia. Drop your cap strips in overnight and put them in a jig the next day and in 24 more hours your done drying them and they can be built into ribs! For my drying jig? I used three nails in a board that forced the cap strip into the shape I wanted. Steve E ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian jardine Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT ________________________________ Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:38 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bendix mag harness --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Pieters; After endless fiddling with trying to replace one of the spark plug leads on my left mag, unsuccessfully, I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to fly behind a mag harness that I've Mickey-Mouse'd together. Can someone recommend a good shop or parts house that can work with me on a new harness? It's a Bendix S4RN-20 mag. The magneto ends of the wires have small screw-on springs that I believe are what Slick uses, this makes it easy to remove the wires from the plate that holds the ends of the wires and also the orange-brown insulating gasket that goes behind the plate. I have these parts off and can send them to a shop to install new ignition leads in it rather than have to buy a new plate and insulator. A harness with plate and all is more than $250 from what I see in the catalogs and I'd like to cut that way down. This is for an A-65, lower plugs, and I understand that with the new flexible ignition wiring and no tight cowl, I can dispense with the metal elbows at the spark plug ends but I'm still learning. I ordered the "Magneto book" from Sacramento Sky Ranch to help educate myself on these babies. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:20 AM PST US From: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank testing --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" You can test the entire fuel system by doing the following: a) disconnect hose at carb., put in shut off valve at this point, b) seal off the gas cap with little silicone and solid block wood or AL, c) connect vacuum hose to fuel tank overflow/tank vent at filler neck and connect this hose to an altimeter, d) now pull vacuum on carb hose so the altimeter reads about 5000', e) close off hose at carb and see if altimeter holds at 5000'. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: Oscar Zuniga taildrags@hotmail.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank testing --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Jack asks- >How did you find room for 17 gallons? NX41CC has 16 gallons in the tank and I'm sure it could have been made a tad wider to get 17. With a Corvair or Continental, you don't need the magneto "shelf" behind the firewall, leaving plenty of room for a generous tank. As far as pressure testing your tank, you don't really need to run up the pressure. I've heard of just putting an inflated balloon over the filler neck and watching it over a day or so to see if the balloon deflates. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chad Willie St Croix From: "Sayre, William G" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" Mike, Oscar, and Piet list members, This bit about Chad Willie comes up from time to time and it got to the point he no longer participates, preferring to build and fly - not argue. I remember the period when Bernard was having trouble printing and shipping prints (during the IPA days before the BPA). It's my understanding that Chad was given permission to replicate and distribute the prints in the interest of keeping the design going from Bernard himself. I don't know if he sells them any longer. I think you'll find that http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm is the ultralight news website, not Chad Willies. Chad Willie has been and still is a strong supporter of the design and Bernard's skills and he respects that heritage. I have corresponded with him over the years and benefited from his advice and skills. This group has (over the years) forced out an extremely talented person that knew Bernard and had visited with him personally. He did try to design what in essence was a biplane-Pietenpol but called it the "Aerial". Not a Scout biplane or an Air Camper biplane not even a Pietenpol biplane, but he felt it important to give just reference to Bernard out of respect since the basic design came from him and for this he has been crucified ever since. I told Chad years ago, I wouldn't write something like this, but I'm tired of listening to a good person torn down - just like I'd defend Michael Cuy if some group were blasting him. I've titled the subject line in the hopes the searches in the future about this matter will bring this up and hope to leave it at that. Anyone wanting information about metal fuselages would find vast knowledge from Chad, and he makes beautiful wooden propellers - even convinced me to change and go with the original design that Bernard used with his Model-A. I sure hope this can put an end to the negative comments about a Pietenpol enthusiast. Bill Sayre ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank From: "Jack T. Textor" Great pictures Rick, thanks! Will the tank sit high enough for gravity fuel flow? I'm contemplating a 0-200. Jack Textor ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank I am using the long fuselage plans and extended the front 6 inches (per Bernard's recommendation). It measures 17" deep x 17" wide x 16 1/2" high in front and 12 1/2" high in back. Could have easily have been 20 gallons by making it wider but I didn't figure I would need that much. You don't need the fuselage extension to get that much volume though, my fuel tank adviser, Mike Cuy has an almost 17 gallon tank in his standard fuselage cowl. Attached some pictures, made a small posterboard model, then a full size posterboard model, then cut, bent, and welded the aluminum. Still have to pressure test it, Will be a miracle if it doesn't have any leaks. Not real proud of the way the welds look, I am taking a couple of thin lengths of the .040 sheet I used for this to SNF and am going to ask one of the Lincoln or Miller PhD welding experts to demonstrate the way an 'expert' welds this stuff. Rick H. On 3/13/06, Jack T. Textor wrote: Rick, How did you find room for 17 gallons? Thanks, Jack Textor ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rick Holland Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 8:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:32 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Brian, Forgot to mention,,,The steamed caps don't have to be put into a bending jig. They go right into the rib jig, and can be glued immediatly. Assuming you are using T-88. It works fine on wet wood walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Brian, You don't really need a "steamer". I did like others,,,got a piece of 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" PVC pipe about 18" long, and secured the bottom with either a PVC cap or a wooden base. When it's time to bend cap strips, I would fill the tea kettle with water and boil. when I heard the whistle, fill the PVC pipe like a big tea cup and add the cap strips. After about 10 minutes the strips are ready and they bend like taffy. I usually did one a night. Pulled last nights out of the jig and did the other side gussets, then put this capstrip in and bent it, and made the next one. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: brian jardine To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steaming cap- strips Does anyone have any pictures of the steamer set-ups they used to steam the 1/2 cap strips for the wing ribs? If you have some please, email me off list. Thanks. Brian Jardine Clinton, UT Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:58 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank From: "Bill Church" Rick, You say that you are using the long fuselage plans (supplementary plans 1966?) AND extending the front 6 inches. As I have read, I believe Pietenpol's recommendation to extend the fuselage by 6" was referring to the 1933-34 improved Air Camper plans, before the supplementary plans had been drawn up. (see following link to 1956 article with letter written by BHP) http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=3Dpage2.jpg&Ph otoID=3D2271 Unless I am mistaken (and that's QUITE possible) I think the fuselage extension was already incorporated into the "long" fuselage of the supplementary plans. Of course, as long as your weight and balance work out (i.e. the new firewall position allows enough room to mount your engine), the only difference would be the length of your motor mounts, and you get to make use of that "empty" space that some have ended up with when their W&B calculations indicated that they needed to extend their motor mounts by several inches. It will be interesting to see how your numbers work out - keep us all posted. Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: March 13, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank I am using the long fuselage plans and extended the front 6 inches (per Bernard's recommendation) ... Rick H. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Chad Willie St Croix From: "Bill Church" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Just did a web search and found Chad Wille's St. Croix website. http://stcroix.50webs.com/ Can't find any reference to him offering plans for sale for the Air Camper or the Sky Scout. Only a note that plans are available for the "Pietenpol Aerial", which he developed and built. And NO pictures of Mike Cuy's plane anywhere. I hadn't heard Bill Sayre's story about Chad Wille having permission from BHP to distribute the plans, and if that's the case, maybe he should be cut a little slack. I am sure that if the Pietenpol family decided that they no longer wanted to be bothered with all the paperwork and hassles of copying and distributing the plans to all of us, we would no doubt be relieved to know that someone was willing to do the work to allow this great little plane to live on. As it stands, we can (and should) all buy our plans directly from the Pietenpol family (which I did) but if they had not been available from them at the time when I decided to take the plunge, I probably would have bought them from whoever was offering them. Would you have decided not to build only because you could not buy directly from the descendants of the designer? Probably not. .02 Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sayre, William G Sent: March 13, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chad Willie St Croix --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" --> Mike, Oscar, and Piet list members, This bit about Chad Willie comes up from time to time and it got to the point he no longer participates, preferring to build and fly - not argue. I remember the period when Bernard was having trouble printing and shipping prints (during the IPA days before the BPA). It's my understanding that Chad was given permission to replicate and distribute the prints in the interest of keeping the design going from Bernard himself. I don't know if he sells them any longer. I think you'll find that http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm is the ultralight news website, not Chad Willies. Chad Willie has been and still is a strong supporter of the design and Bernard's skills and he respects that heritage. I have corresponded with him over the years and benefited from his advice and skills. This group has (over the years) forced out an extremely talented person that knew Bernard and had visited with him personally. He did try to design what in essence was a biplane-Pietenpol but called it the "Aerial". Not a Scout biplane or an Air Camper biplane not even a Pietenpol biplane, but he felt it important to give just reference to Bernard out of respect since the basic design came from him and for this he has been crucified ever since. I told Chad years ago, I wouldn't write something like this, but I'm tired of listening to a good person torn down - just like I'd defend Michael Cuy if some group were blasting him. I've titled the subject line in the hopes the searches in the future about this matter will bring this up and hope to leave it at that. Anyone wanting information about metal fuselages would find vast knowledge from Chad, and he makes beautiful wooden propellers - even convinced me to change and go with the original design that Bernard used with his Model-A. I sure hope this can put an end to the negative comments about a Pietenpol enthusiast. Bill Sayre ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:19 PM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Was that 119 pounds or kilograms? I deleted the site but I was wondering about the weight too. The Britts go by kilograms which if I remember right is 2.3 lbs per kilogram which would put the weight at 273 lbs. Very light weight for a diesel and very doable for the Piet. I didn't see anything about horsepower. Did they give it anywhere? A diesel would give great range and dependability and almost no fire hazard. Interesting set up.... Ed G. >From: "Frank Metcalfe" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:48:14 -0500 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > >Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:24 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule >> >>How much does it weigh? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:06 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans and mods Leon, Don't limit your worries to Kansas. That stuff is everywhere. A worrier down soouth ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:18 PM PST US From: "bike.mike" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chad Willie St Croix --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bike.mike" I think several of us were under a misconception about the St.Croix website (I was, at least). When I wrote about St. Croix mis-appropriating Mike Cuy's airplane photo as advertising for their plans sets, I was looking, as were others, at the Ultralight News website. http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm It was, apparently, the folks at UltralightNews in Canada who used an exemplary Piet (Mike Cuy's) to advertise the St. Croix plans. This may have been done without examination or approval by Chad Willie. Mike C communicated with the people running the UltralightNews site and, miraculously, the beautiful blue Ohio AirCamper disappeared and the "Pietenpol Aerial", to which Chad Willie apparently owns some interest (according to one posting), appeared. Note that, under Canadian rules, the Pietenpol Aircamper does seem to qualify as an ultralight, even though it does not in US FARs. It is unfortunate that Willie got blamed, in my mind at least, for taking Mike's airplane photo for personal gain. Another thing to remember is that the Pietenpol plans originally drawn by the teenaged Orrin Hoopman, no matter how our emotions indicate, have long since been in the public domain, letting anyone sell copies legally. Willie has done nothing illegal in that regard. Mike Hardaway > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" > > Just did a web search and found Chad Wille's St. Croix website. > > http://stcroix.50webs.com/ > > Can't find any reference to him offering plans for sale for the Air > Camper or the Sky Scout. Only a note that plans are available for the > "Pietenpol Aerial", which he developed and built. And NO pictures of > Mike Cuy's plane anywhere. > > I hadn't heard Bill Sayre's story about Chad Wille having permission > from BHP to distribute the plans, and if that's the case, maybe he > should be cut a little slack. I am sure that if the Pietenpol family > decided that they no longer wanted to be bothered with all the paperwork > and hassles of copying and distributing the plans to all of us, we would > no doubt be relieved to know that someone was willing to do the work to > allow this great little plane to live on. As it stands, we can (and > should) all buy our plans directly from the Pietenpol family (which I > did) but if they had not been available from them at the time when I > decided to take the plunge, I probably would have bought them from > whoever was offering them. Would you have decided not to build only > because you could not buy directly from the descendants of the designer? > Probably not. > > .02 > > Bill C. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sayre, > William G > Sent: March 13, 2006 10:45 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chad Willie St Croix > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" > --> > > Mike, Oscar, and Piet list members, > > This bit about Chad Willie comes up from time to time and it got to the > point he no longer participates, preferring to build and fly - not > argue. > > I remember the period when Bernard was having trouble printing and > shipping prints (during the IPA days before the BPA). It's my > understanding that Chad was given permission to replicate and distribute > the prints in the interest of keeping the design going from Bernard > himself. I don't know if he sells them any longer. > > I think you'll find that > http://www.ultralightnews.com/plansbuyerguide/pietenaircamper.htm is the > ultralight news website, not Chad Willies. > > Chad Willie has been and still is a strong supporter of the design and > Bernard's skills and he respects that heritage. I have corresponded > with him over the years and benefited from his advice and skills. This > group has (over the years) forced out an extremely talented person that > knew Bernard and had visited with him personally. He did try to design > what in essence was a biplane-Pietenpol but called it the "Aerial". Not > a Scout biplane or an Air Camper biplane not even a Pietenpol biplane, > but he felt it important to give just reference to Bernard out of > respect since the basic design came from him and for this he has been > crucified ever since. > > I told Chad years ago, I wouldn't write something like this, but I'm > tired of listening to a good person torn down - just like I'd defend > Michael Cuy if some group were blasting him. I've titled the subject > line in the hopes the searches in the future about this matter will > bring this up and hope to leave it at that. > > Anyone wanting information about metal fuselages would find vast > knowledge from Chad, and he makes beautiful wooden propellers - even > convinced me to change and go with the original design that Bernard used > with his Model-A. > > I sure hope this can put an end to the negative comments about a > Pietenpol enthusiast. > > Bill Sayre > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:56 PM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve" 2.2 lbs per kilo -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Was that 119 pounds or kilograms? I deleted the site but I was wondering about the weight too. The Britts go by kilograms which if I remember right is 2.3 lbs per kilogram which would put the weight at 273 lbs. Very light weight for a diesel and very doable for the Piet. I didn't see anything about horsepower. Did they give it anywhere? A diesel would give great range and dependability and almost no fire hazard. Interesting set up.... Ed G. >From: "Frank Metcalfe" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:48:14 -0500 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > >Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:24 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule >> >>How much does it weigh? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:12 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspirations from the Piet Net Pieters, I didn't know that it was allowed for an interested to promote (his or her) alternate designs of our favorite flying machine. I've a few changes I'd like to promote such as Corky-Sue's wider fuselage and Corky-Sue's EZ front pit ingress and egress and more sq ft wing surface. Man, what's this net and the world coming to?????????????????/ You know who DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:55 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: On a far more serious note Pieters, On a far more serious note than my last transmission, Him or HER, I wish to ask if there are any members of the Order of Daedalians on the Piet net. Let me know by e mail. My reason for asking is that I've been invited to be the program this Thursday evening at Barksdale AFB, Subject: Building and Flying a Pietenpol Air Camper for the monthly meeting of our 51st Flight, Claire Chennault, Order of Daedalians. Claire Chennault was a native of Louisiana, the reason for our patron. Off the record, Mr Chennault, brother of Claire, lived across the street from me when I was a kid growing up, and after the war I was told he had a famous brother. I hope I present, in a favorable way, a good impression of our designer and all the enthusiasm of builders the last 77 years. I'll let you know the reactions and outcome. My audience will be mostly Air Force jockies and retirees from 2Lt to Lt Gens. Corky the Kernal PSBABS DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:15 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank You dont need too much pressure to test it. We plug all the oulets but two: one for the hand pump bicycle valve well sealed., and in another one we use the best latex tester... a condon. Jut seal them with a thin strip of good old duct tape and inflate it, we left it overnight when no inmediate holes are present, If it looses volume look closely for the holes with soapy water. Saludos Gary Gower. Rick Holland wrote: Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? Thanks Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" --------------------------------- Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.