---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/14/06: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:02 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (harvey rule) 2. 07:00 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Bill Church) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Hans Vander Voort) 4. 07:12 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (harvey rule) 5. 07:15 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Rick Holland) 6. 07:20 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Rick Holland) 7. 07:31 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (Rick Holland) 8. 07:32 AM - Re: Inspirations from the Piet Net (Rick Holland) 9. 07:32 AM - Re: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank (harvey rule) 10. 07:56 AM - Re: Diesel powered piet (Ed G.) 11. 08:36 AM - Model A engine costs (Mark Blackwell) 12. 02:35 PM - Warner 145 radial (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 02:42 PM - Re: 3 piece wing (Rcaprd@aol.com) 14. 02:50 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Peter W Johnson) 15. 02:50 PM - Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment (Rcaprd@aol.com) 16. 02:50 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Peter W Johnson) 17. 05:50 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Carl Vought) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:47 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule Thanks a lot;I know it has nothing to do with the Piet page but I could and might use that engine on my N3 Pup.I am using an 80 hp Franklin on my Piet.Parts are hard to come by I understand. Frank Metcalfe wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harvey rule" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule > > > > How much does it weigh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet From: "Bill Church" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" The manufacturer's website http://www.wilksch.com/ lists the weight of the WAM 100 as 119 kg (262 lb). This weight includes the propellor, muffler and exhaust, radiator and coolant. The horsepower is rated at 90 bhp @ 2650 rpm. This is a three cylinder engine that can run on diesel or jet fuel (kerosene). The only real drawback seems to be the price - 11,000 pounds ($19,000 US) ouch. Bill C. -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Was that 119 pounds or kilograms? I deleted the site but I was wondering about the weight too. The Britts go by kilograms which if I remember right is 2.3 lbs per kilogram which would put the weight at 273 lbs. Very light weight for a diesel and very doable for the Piet. I didn't see anything about horsepower. Did they give it anywhere? A diesel would give great range and dependability and almost no fire hazard. Interesting set up.... Ed G. > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > >Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule >>--> >> >>How much does it weigh? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Bill, Yeah, but rolling up to the pump in your Pietenpol Aircamper and tell them to fill'r up with Jet A1, (10 gallons worth) priceless..... Hans "Bill Church" To Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject RE: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet 03/14/2006 09:00 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" The manufacturer's website http://www.wilksch.com/ lists the weight of the WAM 100 as 119 kg (262 lb). This weight includes the propellor, muffler and exhaust, radiator and coolant. The horsepower is rated at 90 bhp @ 2650 rpm. This is a three cylinder engine that can run on diesel or jet fuel (kerosene). The only real drawback seems to be the price - 11,000 pounds ($19,000 US) ouch. Bill C. -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Was that 119 pounds or kilograms? I deleted the site but I was wondering about the weight too. The Britts go by kilograms which if I remember right is 2.3 lbs per kilogram which would put the weight at 273 lbs. Very light weight for a diesel and very doable for the Piet. I didn't see anything about horsepower. Did they give it anywhere? A diesel would give great range and dependability and almost no fire hazard. Interesting set up.... Ed G. > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > >Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule >>--> >> >>How much does it weigh? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:06 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule woh!horsey!I can't put that on the front of an N3 Pup.I'm maxed out at 123lbs.That's everything.Back to the drawing board for me!If things didn't work out for my 80 hp Franklin then that engine would do nicely on my Piet. Bill Church wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" > > The manufacturer's website > http://www.wilksch.com/ > lists the weight of the WAM 100 as 119 kg (262 lb). This weight includes > the propellor, muffler and exhaust, radiator and coolant. The horsepower > is rated at 90 bhp @ 2650 rpm. This is a three cylinder engine that can > run on diesel or jet fuel (kerosene). The only real drawback seems to be > the price - 11,000 pounds ($19,000 US) ouch. > > Bill C. > > -----Original Message----- > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." > > Was that 119 pounds or kilograms? I deleted the site but I was wondering > about the weight too. The Britts go by kilograms which if I remember > right is 2.3 lbs per kilogram which would put the weight at 273 lbs. > Very light weight for a diesel and very doable for the Piet. I didn't > see anything about horsepower. Did they give it anywhere? A diesel > would give great > range and dependability and almost no fire hazard. Interesting set > up.... > Ed G. > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > > > > >Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > > > > > > > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule > >>--> > >> > >>How much does it weigh? > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:30 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank Talked to William Wayne (the Corvair guy) and he had no problem with the idea. I am mounting it as high as it can go behind the firewall. Rick On 3/13/06, Jack T. Textor wrote: > > Great pictures Rick, thanks! Will the tank sit high enough for gravity > fuel flow? I'm contemplating a 0-200. > > Jack Textor > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Monday, March 13, 2006 8:01 AM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel > tank > > > I am using the long fuselage plans and extended the front 6 inches (per > Bernard's recommendation). It measures 17" deep x 17" wide x 16 1/2" high in > front and 12 1/2" high in back. Could have easily have been 20 gallons by > making it wider but I didn't figure I would need that much. You don't need > the fuselage extension to get that much volume though, my fuel tank adviser, > Mike Cuy has an almost 17 gallon tank in his standard fuselage cowl. > > Attached some pictures, made a small posterboard model, then a full size > posterboard model, then cut, bent, and welded the aluminum. Still have to > pressure test it, Will be a miracle if it doesn't have any leaks. Not real > proud of the way the welds look, I am taking a couple of thin lengths of the > .040 sheet I used for this to SNF and am going to ask one of the Lincoln or > Miller PhD welding experts to demonstrate the way an 'expert' welds this > stuff. > > Rick H. > > On 3/13/06, *Jack T. Textor* wrote: > > Rick, > How did you find room for 17 gallons? > Thanks, > Jack Textor > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rick Holland > Sent: Sun 3/12/2006 8:30 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank > > > Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) > and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck > and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the > bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to > screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into > that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure > with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? > > Thanks > > Rick > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:47 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank A condom! Yes, that's the best idea yet, I was thinking about going out and look for some really big balloons but all this time the 'tools' I needed were right under my nose! (Have to make sure that none of the wife's friends come into the garage when I am doing this test). Thanks everyone for all the great fuel tank leak testing methods, I never would have dreamed that there were so many different ways to do it. Rick On 3/13/06, Gary Gower wrote: > > You dont need too much pressure to test it. We plug all the oulets but > two: one for the hand pump bicycle valve well sealed., and in another one > we use the best latex tester... a condon. Jut seal them with a thin > strip of good old duct tape and inflate it, we left it overnight when no > inmediate holes are present, If it looses volume look closely for the > holes with soapy water. > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > > > *Rick Holland * wrote: > > Just finished welding a 17 gal. aluminum cowl fuel tank (.040 5052 sheet) > and now have to pump it up with air to test for leaks. I have a filler neck > and cap on top which I think is air tight and the outlet connector on the > bottom which the shutoff value will connect to. Question, is it possible to > screw some kind of adapter into the oulet and screw an auto tire value into > that so I can pump the tank up with a bicycle pump an monitor the pressure > with a tire gauge? Any better ways to do this? > > Thanks > > Rick > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > ------------------------------ > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail > makes sharing a breeze. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:26 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank I think you are correct Bill, the long fueslage plans are 4" longer measured from the base of the rear seat to the firewall. Wouldn't be hard sawing off a few inches if needed. May be the first Piet with the cabanes leaning forward instead of backward. Rick On 3/13/06, Bill Church wrote: > > > Rick, > > You say that you are using the long fuselage plans (supplementary plans > 1966?) AND extending the front 6 inches. > As I have read, I believe Pietenpol's recommendation to extend the > fuselage by 6" was referring to the 1933-34 improved Air Camper plans, > before the supplementary plans had been drawn up. (see following link to > 1956 article with letter written by BHP) > > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=3Dpage2.jpg&PhotoID=3D2271 > > Unless I am mistaken (and that's QUITE possible) I think the fuselage > extension was already incorporated into the "long" fuselage of the > supplementary plans. > > Of course, as long as your weight and balance work out (i.e. the new > firewall position allows enough room to mount your engine), the only > difference would be the length of your motor mounts, and you get to make use > of that "empty" space that some have ended up with when their W&B > calculations indicated that they needed to extend their motor mounts by > several inches. It will be interesting to see how your numbers work out - > keep us all posted. > > Bill > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* March 13, 2006 9:15 AM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel > tank > > I am using the long fuselage plans and extended the front 6 inches (per > Bernard's recommendation) ... > > Rick H. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:25 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspirations from the Piet Net Would be interested in info on more sq ft wing. Rick On 3/13/06, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote: > > Pieters, > > I didn't know that it was allowed for an interested to promote (his or > her) alternate designs of our favorite flying machine. I've a few changes > I'd like to promote such as Corky-Sue's wider fuselage and Corky-Sue's EZ > front pit ingress and egress and more sq ft wing surface. > Man, what's this net and the world coming to?????????????????/ > > You know who > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:40 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pressure testing a welding aluminum fuel tank --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule Make sure you take some Calis or Viagra before you do the test,eh! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:20 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Thanks for the info Bill..Great looking set up..I've never seen a 2 cycle diesel without a mechanically driven blower before..The 19 grand is a tad outside of my Piet budget though.....ED >From: "Bill Church" >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diesel powered piet >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:00:10 -0500 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" > > > >The manufacturer's website >http://www.wilksch.com/ >lists the weight of the WAM 100 as 119 kg (262 lb). This weight includes >the propellor, muffler and exhaust, radiator and coolant. The horsepower >is rated at 90 bhp @ 2650 rpm. This is a three cylinder engine that can >run on diesel or jet fuel (kerosene). The only real drawback seems to be >the price - 11,000 pounds ($19,000 US) ouch. > >Bill C. > >-----Original Message----- > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." > > >Was that 119 pounds or kilograms? I deleted the site but I was wondering >about the weight too. The Britts go by kilograms which if I remember >right is 2.3 lbs per kilogram which would put the weight at 273 lbs. >Very light weight for a diesel and very doable for the Piet. I didn't >see anything about horsepower. Did they give it anywhere? A diesel >would give great >range and dependability and almost no fire hazard. Interesting set >up.... >Ed G. > > > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" > > > > > >Web Site says 119 lbs flying ?? > > > > > > > > > >>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule > >>--> > >> > >>How much does it weigh? > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:39 AM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engine costs --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" Well trying to finish out my plan of what exactly I am going to do before I get started and engine choice seems to be the biggest issue. Well that an the fact that I am about 6ft an 230. I am trying to decide cost vs performance with my weight and yes it should come down a bit (I am working on it) but Im never going to be the size of Mr. Pietenpol. First question is just how much in a real world sense is an A model engine going to cost including everything tohave it running right. Ive run into a lot of things that seem to be less expensive, but once you got into it you really didn't save any money in the first place. Second is it going to create enough power to handle my weight? Thanks in advance ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:00 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:16 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing In a message dated 3/12/2006 4:40:24 PM Central Standard Time, lmforge@earthlink.net writes: I have stated building the center wing section from the Vi Kapler plans. I have a couple of questions that I am unclear on. First,.... Should the lower bolt on the aileron pulley support be an AN Bolt or a common wood screw? If I use a bolt, how do you get clearance with the 3/8" x 1-3/4" compression strut. Secondly,...I am using 3/4" spars on the center section and the main wing panels and my ribs are built for 3/4" spars. It appears that the center section spars do not have any plywood under the spar butt joint straps. The spar butt joint straps lie directly on the spruce spars. The 3/32" plywood is just a triangle below, but not under, the butt joint strap. The plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against. Am I reading the plans correctly? What has everyone else done? If the plans do call for the butt straps to be mounted on the raw spruce, would there be a problem with wood compression with time? Thanks, Rick Rick, I notice nobody has responded yet, so I'll chime in on this one, even though I built the one piece wing. Lynn K. and I talked about that lower bolt on the aileron pulley bracket a couple of months ago, and we concluded it would be alright to make a radius notch at the lower aft corner of the compression strut, just enought to clear the tip of the bolt, with the nut on it. DO NOT use a wood screw. You are correct in that the Center Section Spars do Not have plywood under the spar butt joint straps, and the plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against.. However, there IS plywood under both sides of the Wing spar butt joint straps. This would be so the Wing Straps go on the outside of the center section straps. If you look at the drawing, the grain of that plywood runs differently than the grain of the spar. Just be sure you have all the wood cut and pre-fit, before you start making these fittings...or you will likely be doing the fittings over again. Lynn K. might chime in on this one...or anyone else ?? Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:30 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Oscar, Check out http://www.wilksch.com/pics_aircamper.html Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2006 9:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net -- -- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:30 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment In a message dated 3/12/2006 8:45:32 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: What is the best way to attach front aluminum turtle deck (covering the cowl tank area and front instrument panel)? Short wood screws into the longerons? Thanks Rick Rick, I don't think it's a good idea to violate the longerons with any unnecessary holes, like for those wood screws. It is a path for moisture to infiltrate. I glued the top fabric stand off strip on the top edge of the fuselage, and used this 1/4" X 1/2" strip to anchor the wood screws into...just make sure you don't drill through the fabric stand off, and that your screws are not long enough to protrude into the longerons. B.H.P. calls those strips "1/2" X 1/4" Spruce Filler Strips between the Fittings". I think my small Phillips head screws are 2" or 3" apart. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:30 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Oscar, Sorry wrong Piet I think. Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, 15 March 2006 9:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net -- -- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:24 PM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial I've got a small one that I took at Brodhead. I'll try to attach it.....Carl Vought ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > > > Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? > > Thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > >