Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 03/15/06


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:49 AM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Bill Church)
     2. 07:06 AM - aileron cable interference (Douwe Blumberg)
     3. 09:49 AM - Re: 3 piece wing (Bill Church)
     4. 02:03 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Bill Church)
     5. 02:19 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (bike.mike)
     6. 03:51 PM - Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment (Rick Holland)
     7. 04:56 PM - Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment (Rcaprd@aol.com)
     8. 06:23 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Catdesign)
     9. 06:45 PM - Re: 3 piece wing (Richard Schreiber)
    10. 06:53 PM - Re: 3 piece wing (Richard Schreiber)
    11. 08:48 PM - Re: Warner 145 radial (Cinda Gadd)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:49:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Warner 145 radial
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com> Oscar, I have this one posted to Photoshare (from Brodhead 2004) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eng@canadianrogers.com.07.29.2004/NX 497AR.jpg Bill C. - --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" --> <taildrags@hotmail.com> Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:06:55 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: aileron cable interference
    Has anyone else had trouble with the lower aileron cable getting awfully close to a bolt head in the spar fitting for the little brace strut? I'm hoping that with tension it'll stand off, but if not what should I do? about the only two options I see are" 1. fabricate a plastic rub pad 2. change the spar fairleads a bit to increase the standoff as it passes that bolt. any other thoughts? thanks Douwe


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:49:32 AM PST US
    Subject: 3 piece wing
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Rick, I believe you are reading the plans correctly. Stay away from wood screws for fastening anything like this. You might want to give some thought to using blindnuts so that you can use machine screws. Then the nut does not need to interfere with the compression strut, and your bolt length is simply the 3/4" spar thickness plus two layers of 3/32" ply plus the fitting thickness (1/16") =3D 1". Of course, my ideas are rarely original - to see what I'm referring to, check out Jim Markle's well documented project at MyKitplane.com. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=3D373 &PlaneID=3D52 <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=3D37 3&PlaneID=3D52> This link also clearly shows the spar butt joint straps without any plywood underneath. The plywood is only to act as a spacer for the cabane fittings and pulley. I don't think you need to worry about wood compression, as the straps have quite a large area in contact with the wood, to spread out whatever compressive forces you manage to impart on the wood through your mounting bolts. Just be careful that the holes you drill through your spars are just big enough to allow the bolts to pass through (no slop). ________________________________ In a message dated 3/12/2006 4:40:24 PM Central Standard Time, lmforge@earthlink.net writes: I have stated building the center wing section from the Vi Kapler plans. I have a couple of questions that I am unclear on. First,.... Should the lower bolt on the aileron pulley support be an AN Bolt or a common wood screw? If I use a bolt, how do you get clearance with the 3/8" x 1-3/4" compression strut. Secondly,...I am using 3/4" spars on the center section and the main wing panels and my ribs are built for 3/4" spars. It appears that the center section spars do not have any plywood under the spar butt joint straps. The spar butt joint straps lie directly on the spruce spars. The 3/32" plywood is just a triangle below, but not under, the butt joint strap. The plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against. Am I reading the plans correctly? What has everyone else done? If the plans do call for the butt straps to be mounted on the raw spruce, would there be a problem with wood compression with time? Thanks, Rick


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:03:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Warner 145 radial
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Was just looking at the photo submitted by Carl Vought compared to the one I took at Brodhead 2004. It's the same plane with clearly two different engine mounts - one quite a bit longer than the other. Don't know the story behind it. Bill C. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" --> <eng@canadianrogers.com> Oscar, I have this one posted to Photoshare (from Brodhead 2004) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eng@canadianrogers.com.07.29.2004/NX 497AR.jpg Bill C. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" --> <taildrags@hotmail.com> Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:19:22 PM PST US
    From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Warner 145 radial
    RE: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radialDifferent engines, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial Was just looking at the photo submitted by Carl Vought compared to the one I took at Brodhead 2004. It's the same plane with clearly two different engine mounts - one quite a bit longer than the other. Don't know the story behind it. Bill C. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" --> <eng@canadianrogers.com> Oscar, I have this one posted to Photoshare (from Brodhead 2004) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eng@canadianrogers.com.07.29.2004/NX497AR.jpg Bill C. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" --> <taildrags@hotmail.com> Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:51:00 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment
    So you used 1/4" long phillips wood screws for all your aluminum turtle deck attachment? Rick H On 3/14/06, Rcaprd@aol.com <Rcaprd@aol.com> wrote: > > In a message dated 3/12/2006 8:45:32 PM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > What is the best way to attach front aluminum turtle deck (covering the > cowl tank area and front instrument panel)? Short wood screws into the > longerons? > > Thanks > > Rick > > Rick, > I don't think it's a good idea to violate the longerons with any > unnecessary holes, like for those wood screws. It is a path for moisture to > infiltrate. I glued the top fabric stand off strip on the top edge of the > fuselage, and used this 1/4" X 1/2" strip to anchor the wood screws > into...just make sure you don't drill through the fabric stand off, and that > your screws are not long enough to protrude into the longerons. B.H.P. > calls those strips "1/2" X 1/4" Spruce Filler Strips between the > Fittings". I think my small Phillips head screws are 2" or 3" apart. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 7


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    Time: 04:56:10 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Front aluminum turtle deck attachment
    In a message dated 3/15/2006 5:52:40 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: So you used 1/4" long phillips wood screws for all your aluminum turtle deck attachment? Rick H Yes, they do NOT go into the longerons. After the cowl is all pre-fit with the screws in place, I remove them, and put a few drops of the thin C A glue (thin super glue) so it wicks into the wood fibers, and let it cure all the way before re-installing any screws. I have never had any come out. I bought a bag full of 'em at the Yard Store here in Wichita, and use this same screw for many things on the plane to keep my inventory down...like the front cover for the instrument panel. I painted them the same red as the rest of the plane. Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:23:22 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: Warner 145 radial
    RE: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radialI always thought this was Mr. Franks plane. But I guess I was wrong. Do not archive Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: bike.mike To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial Different engines, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Warner 145 radial Was just looking at the photo submitted by Carl Vought compared to the one I took at Brodhead 2004. It's the same plane with clearly two different engine mounts - one quite a bit longer than the other. Don't know the story behind it. Bill C. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" --> <eng@canadianrogers.com> Oscar, I have this one posted to Photoshare (from Brodhead 2004) http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eng@canadianrogers.com.07.29.2004/NX497AR.jpg Bill C. --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" --> <taildrags@hotmail.com> Does anyone have a picture of Lowell Frank's Warner 145 powered Piet? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:45:02 PM PST US
    From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: 3 piece wing
    Chuck, I'll plan on doing the same thing with the compression strut, notch the corner and/or move it slightly to get clearance. I never really considered using any wood screws, I just wanted to find out what every one else was doing. As far as the plywood plates on the center section spars. My original thoughts were if I used 1/16" under the center section spar butt joint straps, the width of the 3/4 " spar plus plywood, plus the two 0.08" straps would only be 1.035". With the proper ply thickness under the wing spar butt straps everything would still fit. However, you are probably right, with all of the metal bearing surfaces, plus the plywood under the cabane straps and aileron pulley, the plywood is probably overkill. Thanks, Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: 3/14/2006 4:45:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing In a message dated 3/12/2006 4:40:24 PM Central Standard Time, lmforge@earthlink.net writes: I have stated building the center wing section from the Vi Kapler plans. I have a couple of questions that I am unclear on. First,.... Should the lower bolt on the aileron pulley support be an AN Bolt or a common wood screw? If I use a bolt, how do you get clearance with the 3/8" x 1-3/4" compression strut. Secondly,...I am using 3/4" spars on the center section and the main wing panels and my ribs are built for 3/4" spars. It appears that the center section spars do not have any plywood under the spar butt joint straps. The spar butt joint straps lie directly on the spruce spars. The 3/32" plywood is just a triangle below, but not under, the butt joint strap. The plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against. Am I reading the plans correctly? What has everyone else done? If the plans do call for the butt straps to be mounted on the raw spruce, would there be a problem with wood compression with time? Thanks, Rick Rick, I notice nobody has responded yet, so I'll chime in on this one, even though I built the one piece wing. Lynn K. and I talked about that lower bolt on the aileron pulley bracket a couple of months ago, and we concluded it would be alright to make a radius notch at the lower aft corner of the compression strut, just enought to clear the tip of the bolt, with the nut on it. DO NOT use a wood screw. You are correct in that the Center Section Spars do Not have plywood under the spar butt joint straps, and the plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against.. However, there IS plywood under both sides of the Wing spar butt joint straps. This would be so the Wing Straps go on the outside of the center section straps. If you look at the drawing, the grain of that plywood runs differently than the grain of the spar. Just be sure you have all the wood cut and pre-fit, before you start making these fittings...or you will likely be doing the fittings over again. Lynn K. might chime in on this one...or anyone else ?? Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:53:44 PM PST US
    From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Subject: 3 piece wing
    Bill, As I just mentioned to Chuck Gantzer I will be sure to use all AN hardware. Not putting any plywood under the spar butt straps as shown on the plans will certainly make life easier. I made up my Aileron pulley brackets yesterday usingTony Bengelis' information on Bend Allowance and Set backs. I was amazed how accurate it all works out dimensionally if you measure accurately and take your time. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church Sent: 3/15/2006 11:52:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3 piece wing Rick, I believe you are reading the plans correctly. Stay away from wood screws for fastening anything like this. You might want to give some thought to using blindnuts so that you can use machine screws. Then the nut does not need to interfere with the compression strut, and your bolt length is simply the 3/4" spar thickness plus two layers of 3/32" ply plus the fitting thickness (1/16") = 1". Of course, my ideas are rarely original - to see what I'm referring to, check out Jim Markle's well documented project at MyKitplane.com. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=373&PlaneID=52 This link also clearly shows the spar butt joint straps without any plywood underneath. The plywood is only to act as a spacer for the cabane fittings and pulley. I don't think you need to worry about wood compression, as the straps have quite a large area in contact with the wood, to spread out whatever compressive forces you manage to impart on the wood through your mounting bolts. Just be careful that the holes you drill through your spars are just big enough to allow the bolts to pass through (no slop). In a message dated 3/12/2006 4:40:24 PM Central Standard Time, lmforge@earthlink.net writes: I have stated building the center wing section from the Vi Kapler plans. I have a couple of questions that I am unclear on. First,.... Should the lower bolt on the aileron pulley support be an AN Bolt or a common wood screw? If I use a bolt, how do you get clearance with the 3/8" x 1-3/4" compression strut. Secondly,...I am using 3/4" spars on the center section and the main wing panels and my ribs are built for 3/4" spars. It appears that the center section spars do not have any plywood under the spar butt joint straps. The spar butt joint straps lie directly on the spruce spars. The 3/32" plywood is just a triangle below, but not under, the butt joint strap. The plywood basically forms a level surface for the aileron pulley support, the cabane fittings and the compression struts to bear against. Am I reading the plans correctly? What has everyone else done? If the plans do call for the butt straps to be mounted on the raw spruce, would there be a problem with wood compression with time? Thanks, Rick


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:48:21 PM PST US
    From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Warner 145 radial
    Chris, This Piet was built at Brodhead in the 1980's by Francis Saunders, Dick Weeden and Ted Davis. It was powered by a Labond, 90 HP I think. First Piet I ever had a ride in! Last I knew, last summer it was owned by Don Campbell, the aircraft was still at Brodhead and had a Model A. Skip ----- I always thought this was Mr. Franks plane. But I guess I was wrong. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca




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