Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 03/25/06


Total Messages Posted: 22



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:07 AM - Re: Drag wires (harvey rule)
     2. 06:05 AM - Re: Drag wires and other sacrificial parts (bike.mike)
     3. 06:44 AM - Re: Drag wires and other sacrificial parts (harvey rule)
     4. 02:24 PM - Lower Cabain Fitting (Catdesign)
     5. 02:37 PM - Corvair parts.... (Kenneth M. Heide)
     6. 03:06 PM - Feedback Request (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine (Cory Emberson)
     7. 03:32 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (jimboyer@direcway.com)
     8. 04:18 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (Catdesign)
     9. 04:58 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (Rick Holland)
    10. 05:09 PM - Re: Drag wires (del magsam)
    11. 06:07 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (Catdesign)
    12. 06:15 PM - Cable brace wires (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
    13. 06:45 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    14. 07:38 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (HVandervoo@aol.com)
    15. 07:50 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (jimboyer@direcway.com)
    16. 07:54 PM - Re: Cable brace wires (HVandervoo@aol.com)
    17. 08:08 PM - Re: Drag wires, now BRS (HVandervoo@aol.com)
    18. 09:28 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (walt evans)
    19. 11:31 PM - Update Lower Cabain Fitting (Catdesign)
    20. 11:31 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (Catdesign)
    21. 11:33 PM - Re: Cable brace wires (Catdesign)
    22. 11:42 PM - Re: Lower Cabain Fitting (Catdesign)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:07:44 AM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: Drag wires
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca> With regard to the Piet;could that mean a sliver up your ass? Mark Blackwell wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net> > > Hans did you know in the new I think its the Cirrus that when you pull the > handle for the chute, you total the airplane. The landing impact is such > that the airplane is sacrificed to protect you. Airplane is scrapped. > > Ballastic chute landings are not soft landings, but they are ones you can > walk away from > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag wires > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort > > <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> > > > > Mark, > > > > You are correct in that you can design in survivability for the pilot > > and/or other parts of the airplane. > > Military airplanes are another example. > > But these modifications weigh more and need lots of power to fly. > > > > To make the whole airplane survive a crash it would weigh so much it would > > never leave the runway. > > > > Or you install a BRS system. > > > > Hans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mark Blackwell" > > <markb1958@verizo > > n.net> To > > Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > > owner-pietenpol-l cc > > ist-server@matron > > ics.com Subject > > Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag wires > > > > 03/24/2006 11:54 > > AM > > > > > > Please respond to > > pietenpol-list@ma > > tronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" > > <markb1958@verizon.net> > > > > Hans lots of airplanes are effectively designed to crash and they fly just > > fine. Just look at most of the crop dusters working. They have heavy > > roll > > > > cages built into a structure, and yes they weigh a lot more but they fly > > well for what they do. The trick is to find the right balance for the > > type > > > > of flying that one plans to do. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:15 AM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag wires > > > > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort > >> <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> > >> > >> Guys, > >> > >> We engineer airplanes to be safe for flying. > >> > >> Looking at points of the airframe that break during a crash is not > >> necessarily relevant. > >> During a crash impact, loads are distributed on the airframe are > >> completely > >> different. > >> > >> But more importantly: if engineered to handle crash impacts, it will > > also > >> be to heavy to fly. > >> > >> By the way, on my Pietenpol I used 3/32" stainless steel wire on all but > >> two places. > >> The cross bracing between the Lift struts is 1/8" and tail bracing wires > >> are 1/16". > >> > >> Hans > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> "Rick Holland" > >> <at7000ft@gmail.c > >> om> To > >> Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> owner-pietenpol-l cc > >> ist-server@matron > >> ics.com Subject > >> Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag wires > >> > >> 03/23/2006 11:58 > >> PM > >> > >> > >> Please respond to > >> pietenpol-list@ma > >> tronics.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Graham > >> > >> When I was talking to William Wayne about his Piet crash he mentioned > > that > >> the impact caused his 3/32" flying strut cables to break (the nicopress > >> held). He recommended 1/8" cable for these. > >> > >> Rick H > >> > >> On 3/23/06, Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham Hansen" < > >> grhans@cable-lynx.net> > >> > >> Hans, > >> > >> The original plans specify 3/32" cable for the drag/antidrag bracing. I > >> have > >> never heard of any breaking during normal operations. > >> > >> About 15 years ago two Pietenpols met head-on, at a grass airstrip near > >> here, and each wound up with smashed right wings. The pilots were > >> uninjured, > >> but substantial damage to both aircraft resulted. An expensive lesson, > >> for > >> sure. Both a/c were soon repaired and are still in service. > >> > >> No.1 Piet had 1/8" cable bracing and No.2 had 3/32" cable bracing. The > >> wing > >> of No.2 was virtually destroyed and the 3/32" inboard drag cable broke. > >> The > >> 1/8" cable of the No.1 did not break, but did stretch somewhat, and its > >> wing > >> required a leading edge section repair, a new front spar (due to > > evidence > >> of > >> a tiny compression failure) and many rib repairs. The leading edge is > >> much > >> over-strength and this resulted in damage to most of the rib nose > >> sections > >> of both machines. While extensive, the damage to No.1's wing was light > >> compared to the wing of the other Pietenpol, which had to be totally > >> rebuilt > >> with new spars, ribs, etc. The leading edge "bone" of No.2 only required > >> a > >> new section about three feet long, and was the largest surviving wooden > >> part! > >> > >> One could conclude from this episode that the 3/32" cable is adequate. > >> However, being of a suspicious nature, I had used 1/8" 7 x 19 galvanized > >> cable bracing on my Pietenpol for all internal and external wing bracing > >> long before the above incident happened. If I were to build another > > Piet > >> > >> (which I won't), I would use 1/8" cable inboard and 3/32" cable for the > >> outboard bay in order to save a bit of weight--and I would use a sheet > >> aluminum, or 1/16" plywood, leading edge instead of the over-strength, > >> overweight "bone" for the same reason. > >> > >> BTW, my own Pietenpol was not involved in this incident, and it still > > has > >> "no damage history" after 35 years (Touch wood!). > >> > >> Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada) > >> ========================= - The Pietenpol-List Email = the many > >> List utilities such as the Subscriptions page, > >> > >> > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > >> ========================= - List Contribution Web Sip; > >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > >> ================================================ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Rick Holland > >> > >> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:05:48 AM PST US
    From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Drag wires and other sacrificial parts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@charter.net> With regard to a Pietenpol, the airplane IS a BRS, in constant usage. ----- Original Message ----- [snip] [snip] > > > > > > Or you install a BRS system. [snip] [snip]


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:44:50 AM PST US
    From: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Subject: Re: Drag wires and other sacrificial parts
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo that sounds like a slight against our aircraft! "bike.mike" wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@charter.net> > > With regard to a Pietenpol, the airplane IS a BRS, in constant usage. > > ----- Original Message ----- > [snip] > [snip] > > > > > > > > Or you install a BRS system. > > [snip] > [snip] > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:24:12 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Lower Cabain Fitting
    I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings (called the center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them up with the vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between the center of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is this enough room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting back to give myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull if I slope it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, Hans, Walt, Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or did your struts fit? Thanks Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:37:28 PM PST US
    From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Corvair parts....
    Members of the list: I have purchased two corvair engines which I have completely torn down. If you are seeking parts please contact me and I will pass on the saving to you. I can be reached at kmheidecpo@yahoo.com or 218-486-1963 home in the evenings... Ken do not archive ---------------------------------


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:06:19 PM PST US
    From: Cory Emberson <bootless@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Feedback Request (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine
    Hello all, I would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm compiling a builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an installation that's flown for a minimum of 300 hours, and is currently flying. Also, we will not address any rotary engines, since a separate article will cover those engines. For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay you $100 for the write-up. I'll be at Sun 'n Fun until late morning on Friday (April 7), so if you fly in, I'd be happy to take the photos there. If not, we would also need at least 2-3 good photos, including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft. Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at least 300 dpi. I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate, but we can handle that off-line. Please feel free to contact me off-line at: bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net (my despammed email address). Thank you so much! best, Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine


    Message 7


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    Time: 03:32:16 PM PST US
    From: jimboyer@direcway.com
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com HI Chris, I have my fittings made just like you but was waiting until I got the cabane strut material before figuring out their exact location. Thanks for presenting this problem first, like many things on this list it will benefit me and I'm sure others. cheers, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings > (calledthe center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them > up with the > vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between > the center > of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is > this enough > room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting > back to give > myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull > if I slope > it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, > Hans, Walt, > Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or > did your > struts fit? > > Thanks > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca >


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:18:18 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com> Ya, I would do that too but I have a lot of , well I'll wait until......... I need to get something done so I can make some progress. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: <jimboyer@direcway.com> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com > > HI Chris, > I have my fittings made just like you but was waiting until I got the > cabane strut material before figuring out their exact location. Thanks for > presenting this problem first, like many things on this list it will > benefit me and I'm sure others. > cheers, Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> > Date: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:21 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > >> I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings >> (calledthe center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them >> up with the >> vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between >> the center >> of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is >> this enough >> room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting >> back to give >> myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull >> if I slope >> it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, >> Hans, Walt, >> Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or >> did your >> struts fit? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris Tracy >> Sacramento, Ca >> > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 04:58:38 PM PST US
    From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    If you are building to the Improved plans you may need to cut off the edges of the headrest to fit in the cabanes. The long fuselage specifies an extra piece of 1" x 3/4" glued to the upright. If the fitting is bolted to that then you don't have to cut off the headrest (see attached picture). Of course their is an ongoing debate about whether the fitting should be bolted to this. Rick H. On 3/25/06, Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote: > > I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings (called > the center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them up with the > vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between the > center > of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is this > enough > room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting back to > give > myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull if I > slope > it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, Hans, > Walt, > Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or did your > struts fit? > > Thanks > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:09:09 PM PST US
    From: del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Drag wires
    Not scrapped.....but they are damaged, and are repaired/rebuilt. Del Mark Blackwell <markb1958@verizon.net> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" Hans did you know in the new I think its the Cirrus that when you pull the handle for the chute, you total the airplane. The landing impact is such that the airplane is sacrificed to protect you. Airplane is scrapped. Ballastic chute landings are not soft landings, but they are ones you can walk away from Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" ---------------------------------


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:07:02 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    Ahh, Yes that would work. What's wrong with putting it there? I put a larger doubler under the gusset back when I built the fuselage (long fuse). Maybe Mr. Pietenpol was looking over my shoulder. Just wish he would smack me upside the head before I make a stupid mistake. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting If you are building to the Improved plans you may need to cut off the edges of the headrest to fit in the cabanes. The long fuselage specifies an extra piece of 1" x 3/4" glued to the upright. If the fitting is bolted to that then you don't have to cut off the headrest (see attached picture). Of course their is an ongoing debate about whether the fitting should be bolted to this. Rick H. On 3/25/06, Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote: I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings (called the center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them up with the vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between the center of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is this enough room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting back to give myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull if I slope it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, Hans, Walt, Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or did your struts fit? Thanks Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:15:03 PM PST US
    From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
    Subject: Cable brace wires
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) In one of the old Buckeye News letters, Frank Pavaglia(?) wrote that he was removing the 3/32 "X" brace wires (roll wires?) from between the front and rear cabanes, and replacing them with 1/8 cable as the 3/32 cable was stretching. ( don't ask, I'm just reporting what he said )Hans is using 1/8 there, I guess I will too. On the problem with the cabane fitting being only 3/4 behind the former, I don't recall having a problem there. Remember that the widest part of the streamline tube where you will drill and put the bushing and bolt is closer to the front of the tube than from the trailing edge of the streamline cabane strut tube. this will locate the cabane farther back inside the fittings (away from that former). I'm sure thats clear as mud, but I don't remember having a problem there. Also when I bought tubing, I wanted to buy .032 or something like that, and no one had it, so I used .049. Since using stronger tubing I went with a smaller size. That made that fit a lesser problem also, Also the thicker tubing made it easier to weld the bushing stock in. Leon S.


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:45:09 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    Chris, It appears your finger is on the right rear cabane strut fitting, and you don't have any holes located for your instrument panel. Keep the holes of the fitting in the center, and aligned with, the vertical # 5 strut. The panel you call the passenger's headrest needs to be cleared, or notched if you will, to clear that attachment fitting. That 3/4" dimension you point out is not part of that structure, and doesn't really have any bearing on the cabane strut, but in the plans drawing No. 1, it appears the fitting is more aft than what you have. Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:38:47 PM PST US
    From: HVandervoo@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    As Rick already stated the long fuselage has the extra 1" x 3/4" piece. This is where I bolted my fitting. Hans


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:50:27 PM PST US
    From: jimboyer@direcway.com
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com For sure, this last year has been a lost one as I got married last April 16th and we have been spending the year consolidating two hourses instead of working on my Piet, but starting to go work on it again. Going to Sun-n-Fun next week so that will get me going again. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" > <catdesign@intergate.com> > Ya, I would do that too but I have a lot of , well I'll wait > until......... > I need to get something done so I can make some progress. > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <jimboyer@direcway.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:30 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: jimboyer@direcway.com > > > > HI Chris, > > I have my fittings made just like you but was waiting until I > got the > > cabane strut material before figuring out their exact location. > Thanks for > > presenting this problem first, like many things on this list it > will > > benefit me and I'm sure others. > > cheers, Jim > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> > > Date: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:21 pm > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > > > >> I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings > >> (calledthe center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them > >> up with the > >> vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between > >> the center > >> of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is > >> this enough > >> room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting > >> back to give > >> myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull > >> if I slope > >> it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, > >> Hans, Walt, > >> Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or > >> did your > >> struts fit? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Chris Tracy > >> Sacramento, Ca > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:54:04 PM PST US
    From: HVandervoo@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Cable brace wires
    Leon, I have 1/8" cable in the cross brace of the lift struts (the one that attaches mid wing at about 30 degrees) I have no cables between cabanes (length wise) , but instead the tubing to the front engine mount. Spanwise cable I have 3/32" The main reason I use 1/8" between lift struts is I wanted redundancy, if all my welding failed on the lift strut I know the cable would hold the wing. Yes, I know drag wires standard 3/32 but lift struts one up. I too over engineer in places it all comes down what you feel comfortable with. It is your butt in the plane after all. Coming to that point; Today was a gorgeous day here in the Houston area, spend 2 hours in the air flying ....Flying .... My butt....ah well........ Hans


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:08:43 PM PST US
    From: HVandervoo@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Drag wires, now BRS
    Mark, Yes, I knew about the Cirrus case and wondered how that would holdup in "court". The point is this, if you have an in-flight emergency say an engine out or prop failure. You could make a safe emergency landing. Or pull the cord and damage the plane. Would an insurance company payout? You could make a case that the damage was cause intentionally. I am not a lawyer, don't want to be one, but some lawyer will make that case I guess time will tell. Hans


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:28:49 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    Chris, This pic shows the fuselage pointing the other direction, but the space for the bracket is obvious. Mine seems to be farther from the panel. Just don't remember it being a problem. I'll check more into my old photos. Did you do short or long fuse?? Mine is long, right to the plans. This is my argument to not change the plans. You change one little thing, and four other things down the line are affected. I'll see what I can find. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings (called > the center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them up with the > vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between the > center > of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is this > enough > room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting back to > give > myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull if I > slope > it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, Hans, > Walt, > Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or did your > struts fit? > > Thanks > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca >


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:31:27 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Update Lower Cabain Fitting
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com> Ok, so I went and looked at the plans for the long fuselage, which I am building, and it clearly states to put the fitting on the 3/4"x3" block behind the upright. Note to self, look at the plans don't just assume. I'm ok with putting it there. I guess. The question is why doesn't the front one also move back too? The lower ends will now be something like 29-1/2" apart when the wing spars are 28-3/4" apart. I know not much of a difference but it's killing me that I must be missing something here. I would think any one installing it on upright would have to trim the front headrest. Ok so now I know where to install the fitting how the heck do I drill the hole perpendicular to the side of the fuselage. I have tried to drill a strait hole through a block of wood to use as a guide but all I accomplished all day was to find out I cant do it on my small drill press accurately enough. The only good thing to come from today's labor was a net way to collect the dust off my table saw. Man am I stressing out or what. I hate drilling holes. There so final. Can't wait to start stressing out about drilling holes for the landing gear fittings. AAArrrrrrrggggggggg going to bed. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca


    Message 20


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    Time: 11:31:48 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    Hey Rick, Can you give me the dimensions of that tubing (X,. Y and wall thickness). Thanks for the help. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting If you are building to the Improved plans you may need to cut off the edges of the headrest to fit in the cabanes. The long fuselage specifies an extra piece of 1" x 3/4" glued to the upright. If the fitting is bolted to that then you don't have to cut off the headrest (see attached picture). Of course their is an ongoing debate about whether the fitting should be bolted to this. Rick H. On 3/25/06, Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote: I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings (called the center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them up with the vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between the center of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is this enough room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting back to give myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull if I slope it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, Hans, Walt, Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or did your struts fit? Thanks Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"


    Message 21


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    Time: 11:33:30 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: Cable brace wires
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com> Actually it's quite clear and your right it will push it back, so what size tubing did you use? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable brace wires > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > In one of the old Buckeye News letters, Frank Pavaglia(?) wrote that he > was removing the 3/32 "X" brace wires (roll wires?) from between the > front and rear cabanes, and replacing them with 1/8 cable as the 3/32 > cable was stretching. ( don't ask, I'm just reporting what he said )Hans > is using 1/8 there, I guess I will too. On the problem with the cabane > fitting being only 3/4 behind the former, I don't recall having a > problem there. Remember that the widest part of the streamline tube > where you will drill and put the bushing and bolt is closer to the front > of the tube than from the trailing edge of the streamline cabane strut > tube. this will locate the cabane farther back inside the fittings > (away from that former). I'm sure thats clear as mud, but I don't > remember having a problem there. Also when I bought tubing, I wanted to > buy .032 or something like that, and no one had it, so I used .049. > Since using stronger tubing I went with a smaller size. That made that > fit a lesser problem also, Also the thicker tubing made it easier to > weld the bushing stock in. Leon S. > > >


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:42:06 PM PST US
    From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
    Subject: Re: Lower Cabain Fitting
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com> Walt, I had to laugh at the cat. I grew up with cats around the house and they would get into every thing. My mom loves them, so much so that my initials spell CAT. Do you happen to remember what tubing you used for the struts? I honestly don't think I changed the plans, well at least not here. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > Chris, > This pic shows the fuselage pointing the other direction, but the space > for > the bracket is obvious. Mine seems to be farther from the panel. Just > don't > remember it being a problem. I'll check more into my old photos. Did you > do short or long fuse?? Mine is long, right to the plans. > This is my argument to not change the plans. You change one little thing, > and four other things down the line are affected. > I'll see what I can find. > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:21 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower Cabain Fitting > > >> I'm ready to drill the holes for the rear lower cabain fittings (called >> the center strut fittings on the plans). When I line them up with the >> vertical brace on the fuselage it seems I only have 3/4" between the >> center >> of 1/4" hole and the back of the front headrest (see photo). Is this >> enough >> room for a strut to fit in there or should I slope the fitting back to >> give >> myself something like 1-1/4". I don't like the way it will pull if I >> slope >> it back to much. I need some help on this. Jack , Mike, Corky, Hans, >> Walt, >> Chuck, Jim and everyone else did you move your fittings back or did your >> struts fit? >> >> Thanks >> >> Chris Tracy >> Sacramento, Ca >> >




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