Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:15 AM - Re: Update Lower Cabain Fitting (walt evans)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: Drag wires, now BRS (Mark Blackwell)
3. 06:35 AM - Crash Survivability (TBYH@aol.com)
4. 07:15 AM - meeting place (Sealion330@cs.com)
5. 07:38 AM - meeting place (Sealion330@cs.com)
6. 08:15 AM - Re: meeting place (Jim Ash)
7. 09:33 AM - Re: Update Lower Cabain Fitting (Rick Holland)
8. 10:06 AM - Re: Cable brace wires (Rick Holland)
9. 10:13 PM - Re: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo (Gene Hubbard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Update Lower Cabain Fitting |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
Chris,
Get a piece of something 1" to 1 1/2" thick,,,Like a block of
aluminum,steel, even an Ash block. Use the drill press to drill 3/16" and
1/4" holes in the block, nice and straight. Now this is your guide. Put
the bit thats in your hand drill, all the way thru the block up to the
chuck, put the bit tip right on the hole mark, slide the block down to the
work, by pressing the block lightly to the work, you can feel that you are
drilling a nice hole.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Update Lower Cabain Fitting
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign"
> <catdesign@intergate.com>
>
> snip...>>>
> Ok so now I know where to install the fitting how the heck do I drill the
> hole perpendicular to the side of the fuselage. I have tried to drill a
> strait hole through a block of wood to use as a guide but all I
> accomplished all day was to find out I cant do it on my small drill press
> accurately enough.
>
>>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Drag wires, now BRS |
----- Original Message -----
From: HVandervoo@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Drag wires, now BRS
Mark,
Yes, I knew about the Cirrus case and wondered how that would holdup in "court".
The point is this, if you have an in-flight emergency say an engine out or prop
failure.
You could make a safe emergency landing.
Or pull the cord and damage the plane.
Would an insurance company payout?
You could make a case that the damage was cause intentionally.
I am not a lawyer, don't want to be one, but some lawyer will make that case
I guess time will tell.
Hans
Well that's one of the problems. People tend to pull the handle for times when
the manurfacturer really didn't call for it in the manual. Engine failure
the airplane is still flyable and in such a case the last I heard the recommendation
was to still fly the airplane. To take that to an extreme, an engine that
sheared the mounts to the airplane and left the airplane would so upset the
weight and balance that it would likely not be flyable and the chute would be
the only out.
The last I heard, they were paying the claims, but the insurance was very expensive.
The last number I heard was a couple of years ago and was about $9-10,000
per year for coverage.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Crash Survivability |
We should just build airplanes out of whatever they make those black boxes
out of -- problem solved! ; )
Fred B.
Message 4
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Fellow pieters. I have seen on the list that a lot of you are going to sun n
fun. Is there a place where we can all meet? If not, then ,I am camping under
my C140 at the vintage camping area. My plane is silver-N3533V. Come visit. I
plan to arrive Monday AM. See you there- Gardiner Mason
Message 5
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Fellow Pieters. I forgot to mention that I will have a red USMC VMA324 cap on
and I will probably be in or near the wood shop, welding shop, fabric shop,
or sheet metal shop. Gardiner Mason.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: meeting place |
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Update Lower Cabain Fitting |
Chris
I was in the same place as you about a year ago. You see this notation right
at the top of long fuse plans "3/4" x 3" Filler For Strut Fitting". No
problem I will just bolt my strut fittings there just like the instructions
say. Then, like usual, I start thinking too much. The long fuselage is
identical to the improved fuselage in that area so why don't all the Piet
builders need this filler? Especially since several other items from the
long fuse plans are adapted to all Piets like the longer, more angled flying
strut fitting and the upper motor mount fitting.
So I posted a message on this newgroup about this and like most things I got
mixed opinions. One person said the the key word in the notation was the
word 'For', that it is filler FOR the vertical that you attach the strut
fitting too, not filler to attach the struct fitting too (kind of like
Clinton's definition of the word 'AT', or was that the word 'TO'). My
question was, if the long fuse vertical needs 'filler' why don't all Piets
need 'filler'? The qeometry is identical in this area, wings, cabanes, and
fuselage.
Bernard must be sitting up in heaven laughing his ass off listening to us.
Kind of like the da Vinchi Code, he left all these clues around for us to
figure out. But if it makes him happy I am glad to do it.
As you can see from my picture yesterday I bolted my fitting to the
'filler', it allows you to fit your cabane in there without cutting off the
ends of the headrest. As you mentioned your cabanes will not be parallel to
each other. You get a trapezoid instead of a parallelogram. I hope this
doesn't start another online debate about the strength of parallelograms
compared to trapezoids (although I am sure that a trapezoid is superior, its
a square with one or two triangles added, an we all know how strong
triangles are, your entire fueslage is just a bunch of them). But I digress.
Now, as far as drilling the perpendicular hole in something I use a solid
metal cylinder that is a part of a unit I bought at Home Depot (see pic)
just clamp it to the side of something and drill. It came with holes for
several drill sizes and when I needed a couple other sizes I just put it on
the drill press and drill a couple more.
Good luck making your 'strut filler' decision.
Rick H.
On 3/26/06, Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com
> >
>
> Ok, so I went and looked at the plans for the long fuselage, which I am
> building, and it clearly states to put the fitting on the 3/4"x3" block
> behind the upright. Note to self, look at the plans don't just assume. I'm
> ok with putting it there. I guess. The question is why doesn't the front
> one also move back too? The lower ends will now be something like 29-1/2"
> apart when the wing spars are 28-3/4" apart. I know not much of a
> difference but it's killing me that I must be missing something here. I
> would think any one installing it on upright would have to trim the front
> headrest.
>
> Ok so now I know where to install the fitting how the heck do I drill the
> hole perpendicular to the side of the fuselage. I have tried to drill a
> strait hole through a block of wood to use as a guide but all I
> accomplished
> all day was to find out I cant do it on my small drill press accurately
> enough.
>
> The only good thing to come from today's labor was a net way to collect
> the
> dust off my table saw.
>
> Man am I stressing out or what. I hate drilling holes. There so final.
> Can't wait to start stressing out about drilling holes for the landing
> gear
> fittings.
>
> AAArrrrrrrggggggggg going to bed.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cable brace wires |
Concerning the diagonal brace tube, one other thing William Wayne mentioned
to me based on experience from his Piet crash was to ensure sufficient
strength for that tube as it can prevent the entire wing/cabane structure
from collapsing (on your head) in a rollover. The GN-1 plans call for 1/2" x
.035 which seems thin . William recommended 7/8" x .058 which seems heavy
(but what do I know? I have never flow a Piet much less survived a crash in
one). Many people use streamline tubing for the diagonal, some even add a
threaded fork at the top to allow wing position adjustment.
Rick H.
On 3/26/06, Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com
> >
>
> Actually it's quite clear and your right it will push it back, so what
> size
> tubing did you use?
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks@webtv.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:14 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable brace wires
>
>
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
> >
> > In one of the old Buckeye News letters, Frank Pavaglia(?) wrote that he
> > was removing the 3/32 "X" brace wires (roll wires?) from between the
> > front and rear cabanes, and replacing them with 1/8 cable as the 3/32
> > cable was stretching. ( don't ask, I'm just reporting what he said )Hans
> > is using 1/8 there, I guess I will too. On the problem with the cabane
> > fitting being only 3/4 behind the former, I don't recall having a
> > problem there. Remember that the widest part of the streamline tube
> > where you will drill and put the bushing and bolt is closer to the front
> > of the tube than from the trailing edge of the streamline cabane strut
> > tube. this will locate the cabane farther back inside the fittings
> > (away from that former). I'm sure thats clear as mud, but I don't
> > remember having a problem there. Also when I bought tubing, I wanted to
> > buy .032 or something like that, and no one had it, so I used .049.
> > Since using stronger tubing I went with a smaller size. That made that
> > fit a lesser problem also, Also the thicker tubing made it easier to
> > weld the bushing stock in. Leon S.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo |
Jack,
Sorry I missed you when you were out here. I've been spending all of my
spare time on the Piet so I'm not saying much on the list. .The engine
started on the first blade (after several years not running) and I did
my first low-speed taxi last weekend. I finished the carb heat muff
today, and it's pretty much down to nits now. Getting to be time for
registering it and scheduling an inspection.
I've been following your tailwheel discussion--mine is built to the
plans too. Did your tailwheel break on landing or taxiing? Do you
think differential braking had anything to do with it (I have a single
brake handle and no breakaway tailwheel). Let me know when you're in
the area again.
Gene
Phillips, Jack wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
>
>
> When I had the forced landing and broke the axle, the subsequent
> groundloop destroyed the leaf spring tailwheel, and cracked the lower
> longeron. I elected to change to the BHP design thinking it would be
> lighter and stronger. No, Ken didn't build it. I built it, then
> built another, stronger one as I described to Walt after the first one
> built to the plans proved unsatisfactory.
>
>
>
> I'm in California on business, but I'll try to find some pics and send
> them to you.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips, PE
> Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
> Clinical Technologies and Services
> Cardinal Health
> Creedmoor, NC
> (919) 528-5212
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesign
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
>
>
>
> Hey Jack, I have pictures of your plane with a leaf spring tail wheel
> and the Pietenpol designed A-arm style. What are you running now and
> when did you switch. The A-arm looks like the one Ken Perkins builds.
> Is this one of them? Got any good pictures of you reinforced A-Arm?
>
>
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: walt evans <mailto:waltdak@verizon.net>
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:01 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
>
>
>
> Jack,
>
> Yeah, I thought all was OK, till someone said that the wheel was
> laying over. Then it made perfect sense. The height of the wheel
> is a lever that can twist those tubes with not much pressure. So
> I discussed it with my mentor, and he gave me the general Idea,
> and where the loads were. I came up with this which was added to
> the original tubes. He approved, so I painted it and put it on.
> No problems with it except for the fact that it added a smidge to
> the already heavy tail.
>
> AIN"T LIFE GRAND!! :
)
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:40 PM
>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
>
>
>
> Walt, looking at your tailwheel setup it is obvious you
> discovered the same problem with the BHP design I did - the
> darn thing wants to twist when the tailwheel is turned. I
> ended up making my A-arm of 5/8" x .049 wall tubing, and added
> cross pieces to prevent twisting (after breaking the one I
> made per the plans after only 3 hours of flying). Of course
> Bernard designed this mount for a tailskid which by its nature
> can't force the kind of twisting loads that a swiveling
> tailwheel can. The coil spring does nothing to resist the
> A-arm twisting and the whole assembly can go through some
> alarming gyrations, which make for some interesting
> ground-handling characteristics.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of walt evans
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:26 PM
> To: piet list
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
>
>
>
> Pardon the grass.
>
>
>
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/joepiet/album?.dir=5f03
>
>
>
>
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>
>_________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>_________________________________________________
>
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proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
>
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