Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:38 AM - Re: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo (Phillips, Jack)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo (Phillips, Jack)
3. 05:56 AM - cabane struts and braces (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: cabane struts and braces (Rick Holland)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Cable brace wires (Roman Bukolt)
6. 08:08 AM - It's........SMOKING SEASON ! (Michael D Cuy)
7. 08:17 AM - Re: It's........SMOKING SEASON ! (Phillips, Jack)
8. 08:30 AM - Re: It's........SMOKING SEASON ! (Michael D Cuy)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: Update Lower Cabain Fitting (Kenneth M. Heide)
10. 11:06 AM - Re: It's........SMOKING SEASON ! (Isablcorky@aol.com)
11. 05:57 PM - Re: It's........SMOKING SEASON ! (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo |
Hi Gene,
I figured you were pretty busy. I was only in San Diego for a couple of
days and really didn't have enough free time to try to get together.
Good to hear you've got the engine running, and are down to the final
few details.
I broke my original tailwheel on the forced landing, after the axle
broke and the plane groundlooped in a ditch. I built the BHP design
without any provisions to resist torsion and flew it for about 4 hours,
with pretty poor ground handling (tailwheel steering inputs mostly went
into torsion of the assembly, rather than turning the tailwheel).
Finally as I was taxiing for takeoff one day, I hit a small rut in the
taxiway and broke the tailwheel off the A-Arm, continuing to taxi on the
skid that remained and wondering why my tailwheel steering seemed even
less effective than usual. Fortunately I looked behind me before taking
off and saw the tailwheel being dragged along by the steering cables
behind the airplane!
The current re-designed BHP type works fine, with good steering. I
currently have about 75 hours on it.
Let me know how your project progresses, and good luck with your first
flight! I'll be in SD again the first week in May. If you are going to
fly it then I would love to be there.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Hubbard
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Jack,
Sorry I missed you when you were out here. I've been spending all of my
spare time on the Piet so I'm not saying much on the list. .The engine
started on the first blade (after several years not running) and I did
my first low-speed taxi last weekend. I finished the carb heat muff
today, and it's pretty much down to nits now. Getting to be time for
registering it and scheduling an inspection.
I've been following your tailwheel discussion--mine is built to the
plans too. Did your tailwheel break on landing or taxiing? Do you
think differential braking had anything to do with it (I have a single
brake handle and no breakaway tailwheel). Let me know when you're in
the area again.
Gene
Phillips, Jack wrote:
Hi Chris,
When I had the forced landing and broke the axle, the subsequent
groundloop destroyed the leaf spring tailwheel, and cracked the lower
longeron. I elected to change to the BHP design thinking it would be
lighter and stronger. No, Ken didn't build it. I built it, then built
another, stronger one as I described to Walt after the first one built
to the plans proved unsatisfactory.
I'm in California on business, but I'll try to find some pics and send
them to you.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catdesign
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Hey Jack, I have pictures of your plane with a leaf spring tail wheel
and the Pietenpol designed A-arm style. What are you running now and
when did you switch. The A-arm looks like the one Ken Perkins builds.
Is this one of them? Got any good pictures of you reinforced A-Arm?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans <mailto:waltdak@verizon.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Jack,
Yeah, I thought all was OK, till someone said that the wheel was
laying over. Then it made perfect sense. The height of the wheel is a
lever that can twist those tubes with not much pressure. So I
discussed it with my mentor, and he gave me the general Idea, and where
the loads were. I came up with this which was added to the original
tubes. He approved, so I painted it and put it on. No problems with it
except for the fact that it added a smidge to the already heavy tail.
AIN"T LIFE GRAND!! :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my
Yahoo
Walt, looking at your tailwheel setup it is obvious you
discovered the same problem with the BHP design I did - the darn thing
wants to twist when the tailwheel is turned. I ended up making my A-arm
of 5/8" x .049 wall tubing, and added cross pieces to prevent twisting
(after breaking the one I made per the plans after only 3 hours of
flying). Of course Bernard designed this mount for a tailskid which by
its nature can't force the kind of twisting loads that a swiveling
tailwheel can. The coil spring does nothing to resist the A-arm
twisting and the whole assembly can go through some alarming gyrations,
which make for some interesting ground-handling characteristics.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:26 PM
To: piet list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my
Yahoo
Pardon the grass.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/joepiet/album?.dir=3D5f03
walt evans
NX140DL
Working together. For life.(sm)
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo |
Oops! Sorry guys - I meant for this to go privately to Gene Hubbard.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Phillips, Jack
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Hi Gene,
I figured you were pretty busy. I was only in San Diego for a couple of
days and really didn't have enough free time to try to get together.
Good to hear you've got the engine running, and are down to the final
few details.
I broke my original tailwheel on the forced landing, after the axle
broke and the plane groundlooped in a ditch. I built the BHP design
without any provisions to resist torsion and flew it for about 4 hours,
with pretty poor ground handling (tailwheel steering inputs mostly went
into torsion of the assembly, rather than turning the tailwheel).
Finally as I was taxiing for takeoff one day, I hit a small rut in the
taxiway and broke the tailwheel off the A-Arm, continuing to taxi on the
skid that remained and wondering why my tailwheel steering seemed even
less effective than usual. Fortunately I looked behind me before taking
off and saw the tailwheel being dragged along by the steering cables
behind the airplane!
The current re-designed BHP type works fine, with good steering. I
currently have about 75 hours on it.
Let me know how your project progresses, and good luck with your first
flight! I'll be in SD again the first week in May. If you are going to
fly it then I would love to be there.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Hubbard
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Jack,
Sorry I missed you when you were out here. I've been spending all of my
spare time on the Piet so I'm not saying much on the list. .The engine
started on the first blade (after several years not running) and I did
my first low-speed taxi last weekend. I finished the carb heat muff
today, and it's pretty much down to nits now. Getting to be time for
registering it and scheduling an inspection.
I've been following your tailwheel discussion--mine is built to the
plans too. Did your tailwheel break on landing or taxiing? Do you
think differential braking had anything to do with it (I have a single
brake handle and no breakaway tailwheel). Let me know when you're in
the area again.
Gene
Phillips, Jack wrote:
Hi Chris,
When I had the forced landing and broke the axle, the subsequent
groundloop destroyed the leaf spring tailwheel, and cracked the lower
longeron. I elected to change to the BHP design thinking it would be
lighter and stronger. No, Ken didn't build it. I built it, then built
another, stronger one as I described to Walt after the first one built
to the plans proved unsatisfactory.
I'm in California on business, but I'll try to find some pics and send
them to you.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catdesign
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Hey Jack, I have pictures of your plane with a leaf spring tail wheel
and the Pietenpol designed A-arm style. What are you running now and
when did you switch. The A-arm looks like the one Ken Perkins builds.
Is this one of them? Got any good pictures of you reinforced A-Arm?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans <mailto:waltdak@verizon.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my Yahoo
Jack,
Yeah, I thought all was OK, till someone said that the wheel was
laying over. Then it made perfect sense. The height of the wheel is a
lever that can twist those tubes with not much pressure. So I
discussed it with my mentor, and he gave me the general Idea, and where
the loads were. I came up with this which was added to the original
tubes. He approved, so I painted it and put it on. No problems with it
except for the fact that it added a smidge to the already heavy tail.
AIN"T LIFE GRAND!! :
)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my
Yahoo
Walt, looking at your tailwheel setup it is obvious you
discovered the same problem with the BHP design I did - the darn thing
wants to twist when the tailwheel is turned. I ended up making my A-arm
of 5/8" x .049 wall tubing, and added cross pieces to prevent twisting
(after breaking the one I made per the plans after only 3 hours of
flying). Of course Bernard designed this mount for a tailskid which by
its nature can't force the kind of twisting loads that a swiveling
tailwheel can. The coil spring does nothing to resist the A-arm
twisting and the whole assembly can go through some alarming gyrations,
which make for some interesting ground-handling characteristics.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 4:26 PM
To: piet list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Added tailwheel pics to my
Yahoo
Pardon the grass.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/joepiet/album?.dir=3D5f03
walt evans
NX140DL
Working together. For life.(sm)
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and
may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information.
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately
and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano -
Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska:
www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Working together. For life.(sm)
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privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
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- Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Working together. For life.(sm)
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privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
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or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
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Message 3
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| Subject: | cabane struts and braces |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
Thought I'd pitch in my two cents on the matter of the cabane struts and
their braces. NX41CC has the brace tubing forward to the motor mount attach
points (no X-brace wiring between cabanes), parallel cabanes, slightly
canted (aft) wing. I believe one of the advantages to having the cabanes
parallel to each other is the ability to cant them forward or aft to tweak
the CG relative to the wing chord (or center of lift, if you will), despite
the cautions from everyone that you should NOT rely on this to correct lousy
construction or CG calculation.
You should try to get the geometry as close as possible by building your
engine mount to balance the CG, or maybe move things that can be moved, but
as a last resort the cabanes can be angled to tweak the wing and improve CG
location if the tail is heavy. 41CC has its cabanes that way and I would
encourage you to study the possibility of mounting your cabanes in a
parallelogram, rather than a trapezoid, fashion for this advantage. For
more on this subject, Doc Mosher posted an excellent and clear email that is
in the archives and is worth reading if you're working on your CG or
cabanes.
As far as strength, 41CC went over on its nose and flipped onto its back in
the landing gear collapse. The forward cabanes failed in compression
buckling, and the forward cabane brace tubes were damaged as a result. You
can make the cabanes stiffer to form a "roll cage", but I believe they are
plenty strong as they are and they did their job in this case. Certainly
the rear cabanes held up until the tip of the vertical stabilizer hit the
ground and the dust stopped. You can see photos of the cabane damage at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/incident.html .
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: cabane struts and braces |
Oscar
What size were these cabane brace tubes?
>
>
> As far as strength, 41CC went over on its nose and flipped onto its back
> in
> the landing gear collapse. The forward cabanes failed in compression
> buckling, and the forward cabane brace tubes were damaged as a
> result. You
> can make the cabanes stiffer to form a "roll cage", but I believe they are
> plenty strong as they are and they did their job in this case. Certainly
> the rear cabanes held up until the tip of the vertical stabilizer hit the
> ground and the dust stopped. You can see photos of the cabane damage at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/incident.html .
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cable brace wires |
William Wynne pointed out to me at EAA last summer, DO NOT put that adjustable
fitting on the diagonal brace.
That's what failed in his crash resulting in a ruptured fuel line, dousing him
and causing severe burns He felt that if that diagonal brace was solid at both
ends the wing would not have shifted forward. He also said the rest of the
plane, structurally was really built tough and held up well in the crash until
ir burnt to a crisp.
Message 6
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| Subject: | It's........SMOKING SEASON ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Common Chuck----- the weather here is going to be hitting the 60's by
Thursday so I feel the need for......well, er,
not much speed, but to do some Pietenpol SMOKING !!!!
If you got em, smoke em !
Mike C. in Ohio
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | It's........SMOKING SEASON ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
It's gonna be in the low 70's here Saturday. Gotta finish up my exhaust
system work so I can get "Icarus Plummet" back up in the sky where she
belongs. I haven't flown her since January.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's........SMOKING SEASON !
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
<Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Common Chuck----- the weather here is going to be hitting the 60's by
Thursday so I feel the need for......well, er,
not much speed, but to do some Pietenpol SMOKING !!!!
If you got em, smoke em !
Mike C. in Ohio
do not archive
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
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Message 8
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| Subject: | It's........SMOKING SEASON ! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Jack, Group---same here when we had one very nice day in January and I got
to fly the Piet.
Didn't get chilled or anything. Amazing.
Hope you get your exhaust system completed and back in the air-----and
mostly, for light and variable winds !
(it helps keep the smoke in place longer after you lay it down)
Mike
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Update Lower Cabain Fitting |
Say Chris.....
I fell your pain......but remember we are not building a Lear Jet.... I found
the best way to make sure you have the hole in the right place is to hang the
plans on the back of the door, turn and walk 12 steps from door, right face and
begin throwing darts....After the four darts have landed.....drill like there
is no tomorrow! tee-hee-hee
I too read to much into the plans to the point where I have to sleep on it for
a day or so!
Villiage Idiot
Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign"
Ok, so I went and looked at the plans for the long fuselage, which I am
building, and it clearly states to put the fitting on the 3/4"x3" block
behind the upright. Note to self, look at the plans don't just assume. I'm
ok with putting it there. I guess. The question is why doesn't the front
one also move back too? The lower ends will now be something like 29-1/2"
apart when the wing spars are 28-3/4" apart. I know not much of a
difference but it's killing me that I must be missing something here. I
would think any one installing it on upright would have to trim the front
headrest.
Ok so now I know where to install the fitting how the heck do I drill the
hole perpendicular to the side of the fuselage. I have tried to drill a
strait hole through a block of wood to use as a guide but all I accomplished
all day was to find out I cant do it on my small drill press accurately
enough.
The only good thing to come from today's labor was a net way to collect the
dust off my table saw.
Man am I stressing out or what. I hate drilling holes. There so final.
Can't wait to start stressing out about drilling holes for the landing gear
fittings.
AAArrrrrrrggggggggg going to bed.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: It's........SMOKING SEASON ! |
It will hit 74 in SHV today. Got a drivers lic but no Pietenpol.
CMC
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: It's........SMOKING SEASON ! |
In a message dated 3/27/2006 10:10:21 AM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov writes:
Common Chuck----- the weather here is going to be hitting the 60's by
Thursday so I feel the need for......well, er,
not much speed, but to do some Pietenpol SMOKING !!!!
Over the weekend I installed my re-worked prop, pulled all inspection covers
off the wing and had a good close look at everything, and buttoned it all up.
I bored a 1" hole in the back of the eyebrow panels to bypass some of the
cooling air, because I just don't think the engine is coming up to a hot enough
temperature. I have tin plugs that snap in, if I'm in a hot summer condition.
Working on a new seat cushion, too. This evening I finished the Condition
Inspection, after I tightened the turnbuckle 1 1/2 turns on the bottom of the
bellcrank, that goes up to the stick. The past 3 days have had wind gusts close
to 40 mph, and I thought about trying a vertical take-off and / or landing !!
Except for a couple more little details, and cleaning 'er up, she's all
ready to go for tomorrow evening, if the winds are a little calmer. I haven't
had
'er in the air since late last year...and I'm getting real ansey !! I'll be
staying in the pattern and shoot some landings, stop and check the prop, take
off and do some more landings, and of course...make sure the Smoke System is
working properly !!
YEEE HAAWWW !! Smoking Season is finally here !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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