---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/05/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - Re: aluminum-to-aluminum gluing with T-88 (Gene Beenenga) 2. 06:39 AM - 1/8" Lexan----no heating req'd (Michael D Cuy) 3. 06:46 AM - Dick N. is right-- you can heat form Lexan too (Michael D Cuy) 4. 09:30 AM - lexan (Dick Navratil) 5. 10:55 AM - off subject - experimental ladder plane (tmbrant1@netzero.com) 6. 11:56 AM - Re: lexan (harvey rule) 7. 11:56 AM - Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane (harvey rule) 8. 11:58 AM - Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane (Catdesign) 9. 11:59 AM - Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane (Robert Gow) 10. 12:54 PM - Re: 1/8" Lexan----no heating req'd (walt evans) 11. 01:43 PM - Plexiglass (Michael D Cuy) 12. 03:35 PM - Re: Plexiglass (walt evans) 13. 05:10 PM - Newbie on a mission (Bill Morelli) 14. 07:17 PM - Re: Plexiglass (Steve) 15. 10:22 PM - Re: Clif Dawson's handle wraps (Clif Dawson) 16. 10:56 PM - Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane: Pouchel. (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:32 AM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aluminum-to-aluminum gluing with T-88 --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga Michael, I am not quite clearn on whether you pre-formed your lexan windscreen prior to affixing it to the cowl or did you just bend it cold and then bolt it to the cowling. what thickness lexan? Ken B -----Original Message----- >From: Michael D Cuy >Sent: Apr 4, 2006 11:02 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum-to-aluminum gluing with T-88 > > >As a side note, I found that if you need to glue alum. sheet to alum sheet. >that if you sand the glue surfaces with 80 or 100 grit, clean with > >a solvent and glue, you get a fantastic glue joint. > >When I bent up my Lexan windshields (bowed them into position) and secured >them to my three brackets they distorted the 2024-T3 aluminum > >instrument panel covers !!! I removed the windshields and glued three >discs of aluminum sheet (about 2.5" dia) to the underside of the curved > >alum. cockpit/inst. panel covers, let cure and wha-la, no more distortion >of the surface when I re-attached the windshields. > >This saved some riveting where I normally would have had some unwanted rivets. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:00 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1/8" Lexan----no heating req'd --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Ken-- In the Tony Bingelis books he describes the differences between Plexiglas and Lexan. Lexan can be DRILLED......cut with a SABRE saw or band saw.....and bent all over the place without breaking. Lexan can also be filed and sanded on the edges without fear of cracking it. So to answer, I simply made posterboard patterns for my windshields, transferred them to the Lexan sheet (1/8" thick) and cut with a sabre saw, drilled with normal drill bits, sanded the edges and bent cold to install. The Lexan of course wants to spring flat so this puts quite a strain on your brackets and that put a strain on my alum. cockpit/inst. panel covers which were are .025" alum. That is why I installed the T-88 glued-in reinforcing patches under each bracket bolt hole on the underside of my curved alum. covers. Plexiglass is very touchy with regard to all of these operations and must be heated to be formed. Mike C. PS-- Lexan scratches easier...so you have to be kind to it. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:54 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick N. is right-- you can heat form Lexan too --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Dick is right about his point that you can heat form Lexan as well as Plexiglass, I just didn't know it at the time ! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:22 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Pietenpol-List: lexan One more small point on lexan. It wil crack badly with the use of alchohol based window cleaners, Windex and such. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:55:44 AM PST US From: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Subject: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Anyone ever see a website devoted to an experimental airplane constructed out of extension ladders? I'm not making this up! I can't seem to find the site any more. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:11 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lexan --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule Especially when touched and I mean just touched by gas.She's a gonner if you get it near.Garanteed! > Dick Navratil wrote: > > One more small point on lexan. It wil crack badly with the use of > alchohol based window cleaners, Windex and such. > Dick N. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:51 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule I remember seeing the site and seeing the plane but I don't have the site info ,sorry.No your not nuts,it's real. "tmbrant1@netzero.com" wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" > > Anyone ever see a website devoted to an experimental airplane constructed out of extension ladders? I'm not making this up! I can't seem to find the site any more. > > Tom B. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane From: "Catdesign" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" http://www.fly5k.org/MEM/GaryPouchel/GaryGower1.htm Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=26634#26634 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:51 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Gow" I remember it. It was pretty funny -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of tmbrant1@netzero.com Sent: April 5, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Anyone ever see a website devoted to an experimental airplane constructed out of extension ladders? I'm not making this up! I can't seem to find the site any more. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:18 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1/8" Lexan----no heating req'd --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Mike et al, I finally made my windshields from plexiglass, after I experimented with it with heat and found how easy it was. Also plexiglass is a fraction of the cost of lexan. Found out what diameter curve I needed, and made two plywood ends of that curve, and nailed a piece of scrap galvanized sheet metal around the curve. Covered the curve with an old tee shirt. Put it in an oven set at about 300f, and kept an eye on it till it started to droop. Doesn't take but a few minutes. Put on a pair of cotton/cloth gloves, reach in and lay the glass down around the curve. I worried that the plexiglass would take on the texture of the cloth, but it doesn't, still crystal clear. Pull the whole thing out of the oven, and hold the glass to the shape till it cools, just a minute or two. It's truely simple to do. After perfecting the system, took the cutout windshield shapes and made the windshields. both took 10 minutes tops. Once cool it stays beautifully in shape. Just buy a piece big enough for the two pieces,cut them, and use the scraps for the practice. If anyone wants to see the form, I think it's still around somewhere for a picture. Let me know. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1/8" Lexan----no heating req'd > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Ken-- In the Tony Bingelis books he describes the differences between > Plexiglas and Lexan. > > Lexan can be DRILLED......cut with a SABRE saw or band saw.....and bent > all over the place without breaking. Lexan can also be filed and sanded > on the edges > without fear of cracking it. So to answer, I simply made posterboard > patterns for my windshields, transferred them to the Lexan sheet (1/8" > thick) and cut with a sabre saw, drilled with normal drill bits, sanded > the edges and bent cold to install. The Lexan of course wants to spring > flat so this puts quite a strain on your brackets and that put a strain on > my alum. cockpit/inst. panel covers which were are .025" alum. That is > why I installed the T-88 glued-in reinforcing patches under each bracket > bolt hole on the underside of my curved alum. covers. > > Plexiglass is very touchy with regard to all of these operations and must > be heated to be formed. > > Mike C. > > PS-- Lexan scratches easier...so you have to be kind to it. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:17 PM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plexiglass --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Walt-- good story of how you made your windshields. How did you cut and drill the Plexi sheet without cracking it ? I know Tony shows how you can grind a drill bit so it doesn't "grab" and crack the glass. I guess cutting was my worry. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:43 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plexiglass --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Mike, Yeah,by memory, regrind the bit tip so there is no angle for cutting. The bit just spins and heats up and melts thru. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL In NJ , where we had a blinding snow storm today, with a quick 1/2" accumulation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plexiglass > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Walt-- good story of how you made your windshields. > > How did you cut and drill the Plexi sheet without cracking it ? > > I know Tony shows how you can grind a drill bit so it doesn't "grab" and > crack the glass. I guess cutting was my worry. > > Mike C. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:12 PM PST US From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie on a mission Pietenpol Guys (and possibly Gals) Being new to this list I would like to tell a bit about myself and the situation I find myself in. This may get a bit convoluted but please bear with me. I am an A&P at a small airport in northern Vermont and have built and am flying a Zenith Zodiac 601-HDS. Fun to build and fly. Now has 450 hours on it. A fellow A&P I work with, Dan, is a master welder and has repaired and built many aircraft fuselages (4130 tube). For the past couple of years, Dan has been assisting and elderly gentleman, Rene, in building a GN-1 Aircamper using a 4130 tube frame. They had come a long way since starting but as fate would have it, Rene has a terminal illness and is only expected to last a few days or so. Rene, asked Dan if he would continue the project and see it through to the end to make it fly. Dan said he would and he subsequently asked me and another fellow if we would help to complete Rene's dream airplane. We all agreed to finish it. Here is what we have: - Airframe (4130 tube) complete and welded - Tail structures complete (less covering) - One outboard wing panel mostly complete (ribs attached to spars, etc.) - Other outboard wing panel pieces ready for assembly - Center wing mostly complete - Set of J3 landing gear ready to go - A65 engine reworked and ready to go Anyway, my first task is to complete the center wing section. I don't have much wooden aircraft experience other than in my RC model days but I'm anxious to learn. We are working from a set of GN-1 Aircamper plans dated July 22, 1987 I'm sure I will have many questions but for now I will search the archives and then go form there. Thanks for your time. If any of you are interested, I have a web site (link below) that shows off my Zodiac. Regards, Bill web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:47 PM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Plexiglass --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve" Hi One of the tips I learned for brass and plexiglass is to grind a slight flat on the cutting face of the drill bit. The side bevel stays the same. Nice clean non melted holes thru plastic and brass. Best regards Steve G -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plexiglass --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" Mike, Yeah,by memory, regrind the bit tip so there is no angle for cutting. The bit just spins and heats up and melts thru. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL In NJ , where we had a blinding snow storm today, with a quick 1/2" accumulation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plexiglass > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > Walt-- good story of how you made your windshields. > > How did you cut and drill the Plexi sheet without cracking it ? > > I know Tony shows how you can grind a drill bit so it doesn't "grab" and > crack the glass. I guess cutting was my worry. > > Mike C. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:20 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clif Dawson's handle wraps --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson Thanks Mike. The top and bottom "wraps" are called Running Turks Heads. There is an excellent set of instructions in " The Marlinspike Sailor " by Hervey Garret Smith. All kinds of other neat stuff in there as well. If anyone wants the two pages I can scan them and send as attachments. Or just send them here. They're black and white so probably wouldn't take up much space. Clif > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy > > > > Cliff--your web pages are just great and I enjoyed seeing how you > developed your teardrop/streamlined shape > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:06 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane: Pouchel. Hello Tom, Sure, I build and fly one! Great airplane. Is the Pouchel, French design from the Flying Flea by Daniel Dalby, mine was # 3 built, got a special Diploma sent to me, only for the firsts 5 or 10 (?) built and flown. Both wings spars, the fuselage and the rudder are made from aluminum ladders. In my project, the ladder wings were tested to 10G and didnt break. Empty weight is 110 kgs (about 240 lbs) This is one page that mentions my project: http://www.fly5k.org/MEM/GaryPouchel/GaryGower1.htm This is my web page (in spanish): http://aviaciondeportiva.tripod.com/ open "projectos aeronauticos" and in the right side click is the construction photo pages. The safest plane to fly... Yes was built with only $ 1,200.oo US invested including basic instruments, I also carved the propeller(s), but not including in my cost the 447 Rotax engine. Was flown first with a loaned engine, now I just finished rebuilding one used engine I bought. Hopefully will be flying one more time this summer.. Enjoy Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. "tmbrant1@netzero.com" wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" Anyone ever see a website devoted to an experimental airplane constructed out of extension ladders? I'm not making this up! I can't seem to find the site any more. Tom B. ---------------------------------