---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/10/06: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:22 AM - Re: wanted: intake spider for 0200 Continental (Phillips, Jack) 2. 05:51 AM - Re: nose fuel tank (Egan, John) 3. 06:06 AM - Re: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? (hvandervoo@aol.com) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? (Rick Holland) 5. 06:53 AM - Re: nose fuel tank (Rick Holland) 6. 07:17 AM - Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane (Rick Holland) 7. 07:22 AM - Re: off subject - experimental ladder plane (Rick Holland) 8. 09:52 AM - Re: nose fuel tank (Dick Navratil) 9. 10:03 AM - Stromberg Carb (Kenneth M. Heide) 10. 01:23 PM - Re: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? (Ben Charvet) 11. 01:40 PM - Re: nose fuel tank (Mark Blackwell) 12. 01:52 PM - Pietenpol looking kit plane (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 13. 07:12 PM - Re: nose fuel tank (Dick Navratil) 14. 07:12 PM - Re: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? (Rcaprd@aol.com) 15. 07:20 PM - Re: Stromberg Carb (Dick Navratil) 16. 07:24 PM - Re: Pietenpol looking kit plane (Dick Navratil) 17. 08:09 PM - Flying ATL to Brodhead: grass strips? (Jeff Boatright) 18. 08:54 PM - Re: nose fuel tank (Mark Blackwell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wanted: intake spider for 0200 Continental From: "Phillips, Jack" I think I've got an extra one for an A65. Are they the same part? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wanted: intake spider for 0200 Continental Anyone know of one, please let me know. thanks walt evans NX140DL Working together. For life.(sm) This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank From: "Egan, John" Polyethylene Fuel Tank: I recently looked at one of these at a local store and thought it may make a good Piet tank. A person would have to have an access panel in the cowl to fill the tank, they could probably install a cork float on the top of the tank for a capacity indicator (to keep it simple), and I was wondering how to adapt the red polyethylene tank into a gravity feed system where the fuel runs out the bottom with out leaking. Any thoughts on this=3F I think the tank I looked at was the 14.5 gallon (11-1/4" x 28-1/2" x 15-3/4") and it cost something like $25. It was a rugged tank. Here in Wisconsin, they sell these at the "Farm n' Fleet" stores. ________________________________ =46rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Hey all I was just going thru a new West Marine cataloug. They are what it sounds like, a boating supply cataloug. They have really increased the line of fuel tanks they carry. There are several that look like would work for the Piet for the nose. Here are a couple of examples; 13 gal aluminum 18.5"lx16 3/8"w x 10 3/8"h $189.99 11.5 gal polyeythelene 20"l x 14 1/4"w x 11 1/2" h $129.99 These tanks have fills, pick ups and fuel level senders installed. There are several pages of tanks and fittings. They also have online cataloug at www.westmarine.com Dick N. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:01 AM PST US From: hvandervoo@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? Ben, I spoke about this with William about two years ago, his comment was that the original Pietenpol motor mount is way over designed. The WW motor mounts are much lighter and should be tested. Of course it does not hurt to do a simple test on the original Pietenpol design. I made a test stand (to test run and break in the engine) utilizing the motor mount. With motor mounted (250 LBs) and added weight of another 250 it did not break. ( 2 G's) Did this before and after break in period. Keep in mind that engine vibration can be much more harmful than a plain static load. Engine mount should be inspected every change you get, I inspect it every time I have the cowling off. Another tip, paint the motor mount white, if a welding crack develops it will show better. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Ben Charvet Sent: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 09:52:03 -0400 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet Hi All, I'm building a Pietenpol and have welded up a motor mount per Pietenpol plans. In WW's book he talks about stress testing the motormount. I'm not clear if he is talking about new designs, or just to stress test your particular welding skills. My mount turned out pretty nice, but I'm far from a professional welder. My mount was welded up right on the firewall and turned out very true and straight, meaning all the holes line up easily. I'm curious how many of you have stress tested your motor mounts. This subject keeps coming to me at 2AM. I saw the quote "Nature can always find the hidden flaw" somewhere the other day, and it sure makes you want to pay attention to the details. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:51 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? Hello Ben I was thinking of building a Corvair engine test stand that I can bolt my motor mount to as you have done. If you have any pictures of yours I would appreciate seeing them to help me design mine. I will be tig welding my test stand. Also, what kind of material did you use (or would you recommend) to build it? Thank you Rick Holland On 4/10/06, hvandervoo@aol.com wrote: > > Ben, > > I spoke about this with William about two years ago, his comment was that > the original Pietenpol motor mount is way over designed. > The WW motor mounts are much lighter and should be tested. > > Of course it does not hurt to do a simple test on the original Pietenpoldesign. > > I made a test stand (to test run and break in the engine) utilizing the > motor mount. > With motor mounted (250 LBs) and added weight of another 250 it did not > break. ( 2 G's) > Did this before and after break in period. > > Keep in mind that engine vibration can be much more harmful than a plain > static load. > Engine mount should be inspected every change you get, I inspect it every > time I have the cowling off. > > Another tip, paint the motor mount white, if a welding crack develops it > will show better. > > Hans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Charvet > To: Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft ; > pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 09:52:03 -0400 > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet > > > > Hi All, > > I'm building a Pietenpol and have welded up a motor mount per Pietenpolplans. In > WW's book he talks about stress testing the motormount. I'm not clear if > he is talking about new designs, or just to stress test your particular > welding skills. My mount turned out pretty nice, but I'm far from a > professional welder. My mount was welded up right on the firewall and turned > out very true and straight, meaning a > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:32 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Could probably get some ideas by looking at the poly tanks that come with most Ultralights, (and looking through the ultralight parts catalogs) they have used these type of tanks for years. On 4/10/06, Egan, John wrote: > > Polyethylene Fuel Tank: I recently looked at one of these at a local > store and thought it may make a good Piet tank. A person would have to have > an access panel in the cowl to fill the tank, they could probably install a > cork float on the top of the tank for a capacity indicator (to keep it > simple), and I was wondering how to adapt the red polyethylene tank into a > gravity feed system where the fuel runs out the bottom with out leaking. > Any thoughts on this? I think the tank I looked at was the 14.5 gallon > (11-1/4" x 28-1/2" x 15-3/4") and it cost something like $25. It was a > rugged tank. Here in Wisconsin, they sell these at the "Farm n' Fleet" > stores. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dick Navratil > *Sent:* Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:17 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank > > > Hey all > > I was just going thru a new West Marine cataloug. They are what it sounds > like, a boating supply cataloug. They have really increased the line of > fuel tanks they carry. There are several that look like would work for the > Piet for the nose. Here are a couple of examples; > > 13 gal aluminum 18.5"lx16 3/8"w x 10 3/8"h $189.99 > > 11.5 gal polyeythelene 20"l x 14 1/4"w x 11 1/2" h $129.99 > > These tanks have fills, pick ups and fuel level senders installed. There > are several pages of tanks and fittings. > > They also have online cataloug at www.westmarine.com > > Dick N. > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. > ------------------------------ > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:33 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane They have one in a hanger in Broadhead. You have to be a fairly small person to fit in one from what I heard. http://www.fly5k.org/MEM/GaryPouchel/GaryGower1.htm On 4/5/06, tmbrant1@netzero.com wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" < > tmbrant1@netzero.net> > > Anyone ever see a website devoted to an experimental airplane constructed > out of extension ladders? I'm not making this up! I can't seem to find the > site any more. > > Tom B. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:22 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off subject - experimental ladder plane You think that's funny, check you this seaplane at SNF. Its built from a regular old aluminum fishing boat. Has a plastic lawn chair bolted down for a seat, even retractable gear. On 4/5/06, tmbrant1@netzero.com wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "tmbrant1@netzero.com" < > tmbrant1@netzero.net> > > Anyone ever see a website devoted to an experimental airplane constructed > out of extension ladders? I'm not making this up! I can't seem to find the > site any more. > > Tom B. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:37 AM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank The advantage to the tanks I was looking at is there is a fuel fill neck installed. An extension filler hose could be installed. Also, an electric fuel level sensor is already installed. You could install a small battery to power it and handheld. Picking up fuel from the top of the tank might be added safety. If there is a leak in the line inside of the firewall, fuel would not flow. Better to have the engine quit than fill the cockpit with fuel with the engine running. Only my opinion. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Egan, John To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Polyethylene Fuel Tank: I recently looked at one of these at a local store and thought it may make a good Piet tank. A person would have to have an access panel in the cowl to fill the tank, they could probably install a cork float on the top of the tank for a capacity indicator (to keep it simple), and I was wondering how to adapt the red polyethylene tank into a gravity feed system where the fuel runs out the bottom with out leaking. Any thoughts on this? I think the tank I looked at was the 14.5 gallon (11-1/4" x 28-1/2" x 15-3/4") and it cost something like $25. It was a rugged tank. Here in Wisconsin, they sell these at the "Farm n' Fleet" stores. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Hey all I was just going thru a new West Marine cataloug. They are what it sounds like, a boating supply cataloug. They have really increased the line of fuel tanks they carry. There are several that look like would work for the Piet for the nose. Here are a couple of examples; 13 gal aluminum 18.5"lx16 3/8"w x 10 3/8"h $189.99 11.5 gal polyeythelene 20"l x 14 1/4"w x 11 1/2" h $129.99 These tanks have fills, pick ups and fuel level senders installed. There are several pages of tanks and fittings. They also have online cataloug at www.westmarine.com Dick N. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:43 AM PST US From: "Kenneth M. Heide" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carb Members of the list: I have a question concerning the rebuilding of my stromberg carb. Can anyone tell me if I should jet and resize the venturi according to the engine displacement? I was informed to jet the carb and replace the venturi for the engine HP when rebuilding the carb. Then again, I understand the logical aspects about why my mechanic is asking for displacement information in order to make the correct settings for the carb/engine courtship. However, what are some of the recommendations for the jetting and venturi set-ups? Several calls to the WW hangar go unreturned.......Hello?.....anybody home! Ken Fargo, ND Where the movie failed and the money went missing...... --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:54 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet Now that I've re-read Williams article on testing the motor mount, I think I can make a simple horizontal platform for my mount out of plywood and 2X4 lumber that I can bolt the mount to, then make a lever with the 90degree arm. with the 10:1 ratio. He suggests a 2500 pound pull, which would be 10G's. Seems like if I ever pulled 10 G's in a Piet the wings would come off before the engine fell off. Anyway I'll do some sort of testing , up to 5 G's before test flying. I painted the mount with a nice hardened acrylic enamel (white)over the weekend. Thanks for all the advice. I'll sleep better now. Ben > > I spoke about this with William about two years ago, his comment > was that the original Pietenpol motor mount is way over designed. > The WW motor mounts are much lighter and should be tested. > > Of course it does not hurt to do a simple test on the original > Pietenpol design. > > I made a test stand (to test run and break in the engine) > utilizing the motor mount. > With motor mounted (250 LBs) and added weight of another 250 it > did not break. ( 2 G's) > Did this before and after break in period. > > Keep in mind that engine vibration can be much more harmful than a > plain static load. > Engine mount should be inspected every change you get, I inspect > it every time I have the cowling off. > > Another tip, paint the motor mount white, if a welding crack > develops it will show better. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:13 PM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Dick There are a couple of things that I would challenge you to think about. First of all is the fact that unless the fuel is drawn from the lowest part in the tank, you will be carrying around fuel which you can not use in any situation. That might not seem like much till you run into weather one afternoon and need that fuel to get to your second alternate. Yes if you had a MAJOR fuel leak that might happen. The more likely situation though would be that it would start with a small drip at first. That would leave a smell that you should be able to detect even in an open cockpit airplane. The engine could still be shut down, but you not fate would be in control of when it quits. There might be situations that could develop where one might want to risk running the engine a minute or two longer to get to a place where it could be shutdown and a safe landing made vs having it quit over rugged terrain and have to try to land it on the side of a mountain. Finally I'd make sure I have a drain at the lowest point of the tank as well as the lowest point in the fuel system. Many is the time I have had a gas cap fail letting water in, or just condensation form enough water to create a big enough slug that an engine ingesting that at takeoff power at 300 ft would have not made for a fun day. Something to think about. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank The advantage to the tanks I was looking at is there is a fuel fill neck installed. An extension filler hose could be installed. Also, an electric fuel level sensor is already installed. You could install a small battery to power it and handheld. Picking up fuel from the top of the tank might be added safety. If there is a leak in the line inside of the firewall, fuel would not flow. Better to have the engine quit than fill the cockpit with fuel with the engine running. Only my opinion. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Egan, John To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Polyethylene Fuel Tank: I recently looked at one of these at a local store and thought it may make a good Piet tank. A person would have to have an access panel in the cowl to fill the tank, they could probably install a cork float on the top of the tank for a capacity indicator (to keep it simple), and I was wondering how to adapt the red polyethylene tank into a gravity feed system where the fuel runs out the bottom with out leaking. Any thoughts on this? I think the tank I looked at was the 14.5 gallon (11-1/4" x 28-1/2" x 15-3/4") and it cost something like $25. It was a rugged tank. Here in Wisconsin, they sell these at the "Farm n' Fleet" stores. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Hey all I was just going thru a new West Marine cataloug. They are what it sounds like, a boating supply cataloug. They have really increased the line of fuel tanks they carry. There are several that look like would work for the Piet for the nose. Here are a couple of examples; 13 gal aluminum 18.5"lx16 3/8"w x 10 3/8"h $189.99 11.5 gal polyeythelene 20"l x 14 1/4"w x 11 1/2" h $129.99 These tanks have fills, pick ups and fuel level senders installed. There are several pages of tanks and fittings. They also have online cataloug at www.westmarine.com Dick N. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:26 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol looking kit plane --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Just for something to look at, on page 66 of the newest Sp. Av. ( April 06 ) there is a Kitplane out of Italy called Sport Camper..."a new reality for old fashioned dreams..." (www.aerolab.it) It's a Pietenpol looking airplane that can be built as a parasol wing, low wing or bi plane. Lom, or Rotec radial engine. Kind of pricy though, 17K for the hi wing kit, another 7K for the fwf kit (minus the engine) I wonder how they will do? If I could afford that kind of $$$, I would be looking at an RV-8 or something. Or perhaps the hi rolling RV-8 ers would build this after completing their first project. Neat plane, but give me the real thing. Leon S. in WIND blown Ks. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:14 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Mark I see the point you are getting to, however, tanks that have the pickup on the top will have a tube that goes down to the bottom of the tank internally. If the line is ruptured the whole tank wont drain instantly and how does that get you closer to the runway? Don't get me wrong, these are all worthwile things to discuss. As for the point on condensation in the tank, a point well taken, just yesterday i finished a complete going over of my entire fuel system that included removing the main wing tank, cleaning installing finger strainer, replacing the fuel line to the nose header tank, cleaning out the header tank, removing and cleaning the cascolator and carb bowl. I take the annual inspection seriously for fuel. It probably causes more engine failures than anything in flight. Dick N. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Blackwell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Dick There are a couple of things that I would challenge you to think about. First of all is the fact that unless the fuel is drawn from the lowest part in the tank, you will be carrying around fuel which you can not use in any situation. That might not seem like much till you run into weather one afternoon and need that fuel to get to your second alternate. Yes if you had a MAJOR fuel leak that might happen. The more likely situation though would be that it would start with a small drip at first. That would leave a smell that you should be able to detect even in an open cockpit airplane. The engine could still be shut down, but you not fate would be in control of when it quits. There might be situations that could develop where one might want to risk running the engine a minute or two longer to get to a place where it could be shutdown and a safe landing made vs having it quit over rugged terrain and have to try to land it on the side of a mountain. Finally I'd make sure I have a drain at the lowest point of the tank as well as the lowest point in the fuel system. Many is the time I have had a gas cap fail letting water in, or just condensation form enough water to create a big enough slug that an engine ingesting that at takeoff power at 300 ft would have not made for a fun day. Something to think about. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank The advantage to the tanks I was looking at is there is a fuel fill neck installed. An extension filler hose could be installed. Also, an electric fuel level sensor is already installed. You could install a small battery to power it and handheld. Picking up fuel from the top of the tank might be added safety. If there is a leak in the line inside of the firewall, fuel would not flow. Better to have the engine quit than fill the cockpit with fuel with the engine running. Only my opinion. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Egan, John To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Polyethylene Fuel Tank: I recently looked at one of these at a local store and thought it may make a good Piet tank. A person would have to have an access panel in the cowl to fill the tank, they could probably install a cork float on the top of the tank for a capacity indicator (to keep it simple), and I was wondering how to adapt the red polyethylene tank into a gravity feed system where the fuel runs out the bottom with out leaking. Any thoughts on this? I think the tank I looked at was the 14.5 gallon (11-1/4" x 28-1/2" x 15-3/4") and it cost something like $25. It was a rugged tank. Here in Wisconsin, they sell these at the "Farm n' Fleet" stores. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Hey all I was just going thru a new West Marine cataloug. They are what it sounds like, a boating supply cataloug. They have really increased the line of fuel tanks they carry. There are several that look like would work for the Piet for the nose. Here are a couple of examples; 13 gal aluminum 18.5"lx16 3/8"w x 10 3/8"h $189.99 11.5 gal polyeythelene 20"l x 14 1/4"w x 11 1/2" h $129.99 These tanks have fills, pick ups and fuel level senders installed. There are several pages of tanks and fittings. They also have online cataloug at www.westmarine.com Dick N. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:51 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stress testing Corvair motor mounts? In a message dated 4/10/2006 8:07:03 AM Central Standard Time, hvandervoo@aol.com writes: Keep in mind that engine vibration can be much more harmful than a plain static load. Engine mount should be inspected every change you get, I inspect it every time I have the cowling off. Another tip, paint the motor mount white, if a welding crack develops it will show better. Good advise here. I have a big magnifying glass that use to inspect my white engine mount, whenever I have the cowl off. Keep in mind, the white paint should be a very HARD Non-Flexible paint, when cured. If it is a flexible paint, it will streach over a crack, and the crack will never show up. If you have ever seen paint in the welded area of crane type equipment that has required periodic inspection (sometimes it is silver), it is called 'Crack Paint'. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:22 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carb Will Wynne is probably at Sun n Fun this week and out of touch. It started on the 3rd and goes for another day or two. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stromberg Carb Members of the list: I have a question concerning the rebuilding of my stromberg carb. Can anyone tell me if I should jet and resize the venturi according to the engine displacement? I was informed to jet the carb and replace the venturi for the engine HP when rebuilding the carb. Then again, I understand the logical aspects about why my mechanic is asking for displacement information in order to make the correct settings for the carb/engine courtship. However, what are some of the recommendations for the jetting and venturi set-ups? Several calls to the WW hangar go unreturned.......Hello?.....anybody home! Ken Fargo, ND Where the movie failed and the money went missing...... ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:41 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol looking kit plane --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" If you have any interest in the Rotec engine go to www.rotecradialengines.com and clic on Dicks Pietenpol on the left side of the home page to see my new project progress. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol looking kit plane > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > Just for something to look at, on page 66 of the newest Sp. Av. ( April > 06 ) there is a Kitplane out of Italy called Sport Camper..."a new > reality for old fashioned dreams..." (www.aerolab.it) It's a Pietenpol > looking airplane that can be built as a parasol wing, low wing or bi > plane. Lom, or Rotec radial engine. Kind of pricy though, 17K for the > hi wing kit, another 7K for the fwf kit (minus the engine) I wonder how > they will do? If I could afford that kind of $$$, I would be looking at > an RV-8 or something. Or perhaps the hi rolling RV-8 ers would build > this after completing their first project. Neat plane, but give me the > real thing. Leon S. in WIND blown Ks. Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:19 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying ATL to Brodhead: grass strips? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright I'm pondering flying the Piet up to Brodhead this summer. I prefer to land at grass strips. Do you guys know if there are flight planning tools that allow searching for waypoints based on runway surface? Thanks, Jeff ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:10 PM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank I see your point, but I think it would be a risk that I could manage without going into the top of the tank. That down pipe simply can not get the fuel in the bottom of the tank. Now if you did have a bit of water there, the fuel pickup would not get to it, but its still unusable fuel. That helps no one. To get that water out of the tank, you are going to need a drain. That drain has the same risk of a leak as a fuel line. Now if that fuel line did break from the bottom, it would not be fun. But when I hear fuel lines, I think metal not automotive hoses. Such a line is not going to dry out, get accidently cut very easily, and would avoid 99% of the problems associated with fuel leaks. Now that internal downward hose is going to need some sort of means to get the fuel up to get to the line. It would either need a fuel pump or some sort of means to pressurize the fuel tank. Fuel pumps are another failure mode, more connections and more possiblities of problems. Gravity has not yet failed. If you have a leak down from the pump, that fuel is now under pressure so it would spray rather than run/drip ect. Its sort of like putting your finger over the end of a water hose and see how far you can make the water/fuel spray. The weight of the fuel pump would likely be more than some metal fuel lines (I think they are stainless if my memory is correct, but honestly cant be sure) Finally a fuel leak IF the lines are run properly just might not result in a fire. Running the fuel lines below anything that might start a fire and if you get a leak, the fuel falls downward into the airflow. It would also likely give a bit of warning before the engine totally fails. You might need that engine for a minute or two to get to a cow pasture or any other safe landing place. It may not be an airport, but depending on where you happen to be it might. Finally you are far more likely to need that fuel you couldn't get to going in from the top to get yourself out of a bad situation, than you are likely to have a fuel line problem with either method of installation. I do commend your dedication in the maintenance of your fuel system. If more people paid that much attention to one of the most critical systems in the airplane their would be fewer problems. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Mark I see the point you are getting to, however, tanks that have the pickup on the top will have a tube that goes down to the bottom of the tank internally. If the line is ruptured the whole tank wont drain instantly and how does that get you closer to the runway? Don't get me wrong, these are all worthwile things to discuss. As for the point on condensation in the tank, a point well taken, just yesterday i finished a complete going over of my entire fuel system that included removing the main wing tank, cleaning installing finger strainer, replacing the fuel line to the nose header tank, cleaning out the header tank, removing and cleaning the cascolator and carb bowl. I take the annual inspection seriously for fuel. It probably causes more engine failures than anything in flight. Dick N. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Blackwell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Dick There are a couple of things that I would challenge you to think about. First of all is the fact that unless the fuel is drawn from the lowest part in the tank, you will be carrying around fuel which you can not use in any situation. That might not seem like much till you run into weather one afternoon and need that fuel to get to your second alternate. Yes if you had a MAJOR fuel leak that might happen. The more likely situation though would be that it would start with a small drip at first. That would leave a smell that you should be able to detect even in an open cockpit airplane. The engine could still be shut down, but you not fate would be in control of when it quits. There might be situations that could develop where one might want to risk running the engine a minute or two longer to get to a place where it could be shutdown and a safe landing made vs having it quit over rugged terrain and have to try to land it on the side of a mountain. Finally I'd make sure I have a drain at the lowest point of the tank as well as the lowest point in the fuel system. Many is the time I have had a gas cap fail letting water in, or just condensation form enough water to create a big enough slug that an engine ingesting that at takeoff power at 300 ft would have not made for a fun day. Something to think about. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank The advantage to the tanks I was looking at is there is a fuel fill neck installed. An extension filler hose could be installed. Also, an electric fuel level sensor is already installed. You could install a small battery to power it and handheld. Picking up fuel from the top of the tank might be added safety. If there is a leak in the line inside of the firewall, fuel would not flow. Better to have the engine quit than fill the cockpit with fuel with the engine running. Only my opinion. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Egan, John To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:50 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Polyethylene Fuel Tank: I recently looked at one of these at a local store and thought it may make a good Piet tank. A person would have to have an access panel in the cowl to fill the tank, they could probably install a cork float on the top of the tank for a capacity indicator (to keep it simple), and I was wondering how to adapt the red polyethylene tank into a gravity feed system where the fuel runs out the bottom with out leaking. Any thoughts on this? I think the tank I looked at was the 14.5 gallon (11-1/4" x 28-1/2" x 15-3/4") and it cost something like $25. It was a rugged tank. Here in Wisconsin, they sell these at the "Farm n' Fleet" stores. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:17 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: nose fuel tank Hey all I was just going thru a new West Marine cataloug. They are what it sounds like, a boating supply cataloug. They have really increased the line of fuel tanks they carry. There are several that look like would work for the Piet for the nose. Here are a couple of examples; 13 gal aluminum 18.5"lx16 3/8"w x 10 3/8"h $189.99 11.5 gal polyeythelene 20"l x 14 1/4"w x 11 1/2" h $129.99 These tanks have fills, pick ups and fuel level senders installed. There are several pages of tanks and fittings. They also have online cataloug at www.westmarine.com Dick N. This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.