---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/14/06: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:42 AM - Re: Wood Sources (Phillips, Jack) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: Re: Wood Sources (Lou Wither) 3. 04:57 AM - Aircraft wood (TBYH@aol.com) 4. 05:35 AM - Re: Wood Sources (Glenn Thomas) 5. 05:49 AM - Re: Wood Sources (Glenn Thomas) 6. 06:07 AM - Re: Turk's Head knot (at7000ft) 7. 06:18 AM - axle shims (Oscar Zuniga) 8. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Building logs??? (Ben Charvet) 9. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Building logs??? (Rick Holland) 10. 08:04 AM - looking for... (Egan, John) 11. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Building logs??? (Ken) 12. 07:09 PM - Re: looking for... (Dick Navratil) 13. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Wood Sources (Dick Navratil) 14. 11:12 PM - Flying in the Kansas Wind (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood Sources From: "Phillips, Jack" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" I concur with Dick. Wicks has great quality wood, cut accurately to your dimenison, and much faster than Aircraft Spruce (why do they call the company that name?). Typically Aicraft Spruce quotes 4 to 6 weeks delivery. Wicks can usually do it in 2 weeks or less. Jack Phillips Glad to finally have good Pietenpol weather, and be exercising Icarus Plummet again -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" For my first project I bought from Aircraft Spruce. Wood was great quality, but took a long time to get delivered. Second project, I tried cutting my own, that didn't work too well, so I ordered from Wicks. Great quality, quick delivery and about the same price as ACS. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Thomas" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Sources > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" > > > Question: If you were buying wood to build ribs with, where would you go > to get it? I didn't want to buy Sitka Spruce boards and cut them with my > tablesaw. I'm interested in finding out if I bought the wrong type of > wood. > > I didn't buy a lot but in talking with the establishment I bought it from, > I was VERY surprised to hear their last statement on dealing with this > problem. (In the end, if I do have to eat the wood I bought I'm only out > $300 and much better educated, perhaps worth the $300) > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com Working together. For life.(sm) This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:07 AM PST US From: Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources Glen, There is a place in New London that sells Sitka spruce. You can pick out your own boards and look over their selection. I purchased "Aircraft Quality" spruce spars from a friend that restores Waco's. Frankly, I couldn't see the differenct between that and what I got in New London. I cut mine on a table saw and finished them to size with a jointer. I used a micrometer to make sure they were all exactly the same, it is pretty easy to hold them to +/- .005". You get a lot of loss, but you can hand pick what you want for the cap strips and use the other pieces for the structural pieces with larger sections. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:13 AM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft wood I bought my spruce from McCormack's in Madison, WI -- very reasonable and I live only two hours away. What I like is that you can pick out your own wood and so, obviously, you know exactly what you're hauling home. Had to cut it myself into strips for the longerons and uprights for fuselage, but with a good sharp table saw blade and two of my boys (16 and 19)to help feed it through the saw (one at each end of the 14-foot lengths and me at the saw-- I didn't want them losing a finger if something slipped) it was relatively easy to cut the longerons out. As for capstrips, I bought a complete set of ribs from the late Charlie Rubeck -- that's "cheating" a little, but once my Piet flies, we'll be literally and figuratively flying on Charlie's "wings" -- and I can't think of a better way to honor his memory! Today I plan to finish up the vertical stab and then glue up the rudder. With the rudder finished all the tailpieces will be finished -- then I can assemble the landing gear and she'll be on wheels! Last weekend was spent, mostly, finishing up the painting and installing chair rail in the kitchen. That compound, laser-guided miter saw that my wife bought me for Christmas a couple years ago-- and which I claimed was for household jobs, heh-heh-heh - sure came in handy for that chair rail! All the corners came out so nice -- my wife thinks I'm a stinking genius! And you know, some of that fancy chair rail would look great around the perimeter of my Piet's cockpit...hmmmm.... Just kidding! Only 90-some days to Brodhead! Happy building/flying everyone! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources From: "Glenn Thomas" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" A Pober Jr. Ace (wood wing) builder in my area ordered his wood from Wicks and has been happy what everything he's received. I'm still working this out with AS&S. I'm not the type that goes out to smear people but thought that other new builders sizing up their sources for lumber might want to know what they're getting into. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28338#28338 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources From: "Glenn Thomas" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" Hi Lou, I thought about it. You've told me about that place before. I just don't have the tablesaw for that right now. My saw is about 50 years old and I need to pull the tilt assembly out and figure out why the blade won't quite make it to 90 degrees. Otherwise it's a great saw. Then I would need a planer (which I don't have) to get the precise dimensions. I figured while I focused on building the ribs with store-bought capstrip, I could put away my pennies for the planer. I almost went out and bought the Rigid one from Home Depot ($350.00) 2 weeks ago. When I bought the wood there was (and still is) a notice on the website that says... NOTICE We supply only certified aircraft grade spruce. Do not accept lower grades of spruce for lower prices in your project. It is no bargain. Demand top quality. No Packaging Charges on Spruce I've reminded them of the notice and asked what they use as a measure for certified "aircraft grade" and asked who certifies it. I'm going by FAA Advisory Circular 43.13. Although the Customer Service folks try to be nice I get the sense that they are getting bounced back and forth like ping pong balls, trying to help me and then told to do otherwise by their management. Getting the order placed was an ordeal too. They wanted to ship from California but they also have a storefront in Georgia which cuts freight in half. It took 5 days for them to figure out how to ship it. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28345#28345 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:38 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turk's Head knot From: "at7000ft" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "at7000ft" Thanks Clif, I am at at7000ft@gmail.com. -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28349#28349 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:44 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: axle shims --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" What is it about axle shims that makes them so expensive? I need to correct a little camber on one side and got to looking at prices of shims. Anybody have any shortcuts or tips on axle shims? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:44 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building logs??? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet At a forum at Sun-N-Fun it was also mentioned that if you keep track of how much time you spend on your project it can count as experience hours if you ever decide you want to get an AP certification. I think I forgot to mention this in my first reply. Living in Mims is great, and I have my shop right here on my property. Always love to have people come look at the project, just give my a few minutes warning so I can clean the shop up a little. :-[ Ben Launchpad wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Launchpad" > >Thanks so much Ben for the info. That is exactly what I was looking for. > Say, hows life in Mims? Former Cocoa Beach area guy here. Miss the south. Would enjoy meeting and checking out your plane on my next trip down.. >Brian > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:11 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building logs??? Now we just need to convince a couple schools to provide college credit for time building an airplane. do not archive On 4/14/06, Ben Charvet wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet > > At a forum at Sun-N-Fun it was also mentioned that if you keep track of > how much time you spend on your project it can count as experience hours > if you ever decide you want to get an AP certification. I think I > forgot to mention this in my first reply. Living in Mims is great, and > I have my shop right here on my property. Always love to have people > come look at the project, just give my a few minutes warning so I can > clean the shop up a little. :-[ > > Ben > Launchpad wrote: > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Launchpad" < > launchpad@chartermi.net> > > > >Thanks so much Ben for the info. That is exactly what I was looking for. > > Say, hows life in Mims? Former Cocoa Beach area guy here. Miss the > south. Would enjoy meeting and checking out your plane on my next trip > down.. > >Brian > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking for... From: "Egan, John" Hello all, I would like to get in touch with Piet builder P.F. Beck from Barnwell, S.C. whose name I found on the Piet Frapper site. I would like local information regarding the area. If you (P.F. B.) are out there, would you please contact me off-line=3F Do not archive Thanks, John This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:26 PM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building logs??? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken Thomas Edison State College in NJ will give college credit for you A&P certificate. They also give college credit for pilot certificates. Check them out at http://www.tesc.edu/. I guess give is not really a good term because there is a fee involved. Ken Rick Holland wrote: > Now we just need to convince a couple schools to provide college credit > for time building an airplane. > > do not archive > > On 4/14/06, *Ben Charvet* < bcharvet@bellsouth.net > > wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet < > bcharvet@bellsouth.net > > > At a forum at Sun-N-Fun it was also mentioned that if you keep track of > how much time you spend on your project it can count as experience > hours > if you ever decide you want to get an AP certification. I think I > forgot to mention this in my first reply. Living in Mims is great, and > I have my shop right here on my property. Always love to have people > come look at the project, just give my a few minutes warning so I can > clean the shop up a little. :-[ > > Ben > Launchpad wrote: > > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Launchpad" < > launchpad@chartermi.net > > > > >Thanks so much Ben for the info. That is exactly what I was > looking for. > > Say, hows life in Mims? Former Cocoa Beach area guy here. Miss > the south. Would enjoy meeting and checking out your plane on my > next trip down.. > ==================================================ist Features > Navigator to browse ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> > ================================================== out the All New > Matronics Email List Wiki! ========================= - > List Contrib &nb-> > http://www.matronic============================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:40 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: looking for... John P.F. Beck probably lurks here, if not, pfbeck@barnwellsc.com Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Egan, John To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking for... Hello all, I would like to get in touch with Piet builder P.F. Beck from Barnwell, S.C. whose name I found on the Piet Frapper site. I would like local information regarding the area. If you (P.F. B.) are out there, would you please contact me off-line? Do not archive Thanks, John This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:32 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Glenn I have a very good quality table saw, and I still found it very difficult to cut those small dimension pieces accurately. For as nice of a job that Wicks does, I don't think it's worth the savings. A couple of other comments. Aircraft Spruce got it's name because thats what they started out doing years ago and expanded from there. Certified Aircraft Grade of course is just the basic 8 grains per inch and the grain to run in accordance with FAA specs. They spell out the specs on page 53 of their cataloug. I'm sure I'm not saying anything new here. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Thomas" Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" > > > Hi Lou, > I thought about it. You've told me about that place before. I just don't > have the tablesaw for that right now. My saw is about 50 years old and I > need to pull the tilt assembly out and figure out why the blade won't > quite make it to 90 degrees. Otherwise it's a great saw. Then I would > need a planer (which I don't have) to get the precise dimensions. I > figured while I focused on building the ribs with store-bought capstrip, I > could put away my pennies for the planer. I almost went out and bought > the Rigid one from Home Depot ($350.00) 2 weeks ago. > > When I bought the wood there was (and still is) a notice on the website > that says... > > NOTICE > > We supply only certified aircraft grade spruce. Do not accept lower grades > of spruce for lower prices in your project. It is no bargain. Demand top > quality. No Packaging Charges on Spruce > > I've reminded them of the notice and asked what they use as a measure for > certified "aircraft grade" and asked who certifies it. I'm going by FAA > Advisory Circular 43.13. Although the Customer Service folks try to be > nice I get the sense that they are getting bounced back and forth like > ping pong balls, trying to help me and then told to do otherwise by their > management. Getting the order placed was an ordeal too. They wanted to > ship from California but they also have a storefront in Georgia which cuts > freight in half. It took 5 days for them to figure out how to ship it. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28345#28345 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:58 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying in the Kansas Wind On Wednesday I went out to face a stiff, gusty, east crosswind. A couple of buddies showed up, who I told I would give 'em a Pietenpol Ride, but I wanted to do some solo landings before I took on a passenger. There was about 3/4 sock exposed at almost direct crosswind, which made it Pilot's discretion as to which runway to use. Initially, the Skydivers plane was using 35, but when I finished pre-flight, they took off on 17. I've been looking for an opportunity to practice crosswind technique, and this one really laid it out for me. Taxiing in the wind was not really difficult, just remember Climb into a quartering headwind, and dive away from a quartering tailwind. It did rock the wings back & forth some, but was very manageable. Just before back taxi on 17, two of the skydivers were landing behind me, and to the right...I didn't and couldn't see them coming. I'm glad they decided not to land on top of me !! Left crosswind takeoff was not too bad...just keep the left aileron in during the takeoff run, and gradually bring it back to close to neutral until rotation. Break ground, and she immediately weathervanes into the wind, and I fly sideways the rest of the way down the runway, and turn left soon after the end of the runway, to take advantage of the more forgiving terrain. Stayed in the pattern to do some landings, & back taxi. Base to final I overshot the grass strip, and the first landing was a third of the way down the 1500' grass strip, and a pretty good bounce, so I went full power for a go around...don't even try to save a bad landing...just go around. The next attempt was much better, but still a bounce. I was trying to carry too much speed on final approach, with the upwind wing down, so the instant the mains made contact, I blipped some forward stick to keep it on the ground, for a wheel landing. I disappointed my friends when I told them it was too rough to risk taking a passenger in these conditions. I was bouncing all over the place on downwind. I did another flight later on in the evening, after the wind died down some, went south about 5 miles, and did some steep turns about a point...Smoke On !! Came back and made 3 pretty good landings. Remember : If you can walk away, it was a good landing...if you can use the plane again, it was a Great Landing !! On Thursday, there was a Full sock of wind, right down the runway. I had less than a half load of fuel, and was by myself today, so I thought I would see how short the takeoff roll would be...maybe even a Vertical takeoff !! I rolled the plane out of the hanger, and pointed 'er right into the wind, for pre-flight. She just wouldn't stand still long enough for me to pre-flight !! She kept tippee toeing, lifting one wheel off the ground, then the other, then the tail would come up. I couldn't even walk away from the plane !! I had to hold 'er from rolling backwards, too. I thought maybe I would have to chalk the Back of the tires !! This went on for about 10 minutes, before I decided to put 'er back in the barn (hanger). If I had a helper, I could have flown that day, but this launch was beyond my solo capacity. Ah, yesss...the Kansas Winds - always challenging...practice, practice, practice !!! Chuck G. Wichita, KS NX770CG