---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/16/06: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:58 AM - Piet Project Available (Isablcorky@aol.com) 2. 04:51 AM - Re: Gear Leg Fabric & Crosswind Landings (harvey rule) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: Piet for Sale (Larry Nelson) 4. 08:20 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Rick Holland) 5. 09:45 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Rcaprd@aol.com) 6. 10:14 AM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Rick Holland) 7. 10:40 AM - Rudder Return Spring (Lynn Knoll) 8. 11:32 AM - Re: Rudder Return Spring (Isablcorky@aol.com) 9. 12:37 PM - Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... (Rob Stapleton) 10. 01:25 PM - [ Harvey Rule ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 11. 01:32 PM - [ Graham J. Hansen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 12. 01:35 PM - [ Chris Tracy ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 13. 05:11 PM - Re: Piet Project Available (Alan Lyscars) 14. 06:25 PM - Re: Piet Project Available (harvey rule) 15. 07:40 PM - Re: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... (Mark Blackwell) 16. 08:42 PM - Re: Landing Gear strength (Rcaprd@aol.com) 17. 08:42 PM - Re: Rudder Return Spring (Dick Navratil) 18. 10:16 PM - Re: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... (Rob Stapleton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:47 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available Pieters, Times change with aging and health. That is the total reason for this decision. It has become necessary for us to rid ourselves of all these hobby goodies and the only way is to go all the way. So I am offering my Piet project with all materials on hand, power tools, books, everything. Located in Shreveport, La 3 blocks east of I-49, 3 miles south of I-20. This will be the only notice to the net. If seriously interested contact me direct. _Isablcorky@aol.com_ (mailto:Isablcorky@aol.com) . I promise you a bargain and I won't be difficult to do business with. I'll have a complete inventory available for those interested as well as a price. I was taught never make a major decision at night, always sleep on it. I did. Corky, still in Louisiana Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:47 AM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gear Leg Fabric & Crosswind Landings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule Great info;thankyou. do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:39 AM PST US From: Larry Nelson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet for Sale --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Larry Nelson I am going to sell the Howard Henderson Pietenpol, N444MH. I have enjoyed flying it more than any other plane I own, but I have to shed myself of some "toys". I bought this plane from Joe Santana and he bought it from Howard. I moved the wing back 2.5" and it flies great with my 220# rear end in the rear cockpit. I showed it to a prospect this week. It had not been started for 3 months. She started first pull. $10,500, located in Springfield, MO. I think it has about 120 hours TT engine and airframe. I have all the builders logs, and an extra prop, plus new ELT which I never installed. There are plenty of articles and pictures on this plane on the internet, but I will send some if anyone is interested. My phone number is 417 882 8122. Larry Nelson Springfield, MO Beechcraft Bonanza V-35B N2980A Cessna 195 N9883A Pietenpol Air Camper N444MH 1963 GMC 4106-1618 SV/ Spirit of America ARS WB0JOT ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:09 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear strength A related question I posted a while back and didn't see any reply to was about the addition of a safety cable (for split type gear) to prevent the gear from totally collapsing. Anyone seen this on a Piet? RIck H. On 4/15/06, Mark Blackwell wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" < > markb1958@verizon.net> > > > >> > >> As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, > >> or even crack a longeron. I think we all have at least one > >> hard landing in our future, whether from a forced or > >> unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor > >> visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little > >> insurance here. > >> > >> Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? > >> What has anyone done in this regard? What would you do > >> differently with this in mind? > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > Something to think about though before you do beef it up. If you really > hit > that hard, do you really want the gear to stay intact? The energy is > going > to go somewhere. You could probably build the gear strong enough to take > it, but the energy of that impact is going to be transfered. In this case > the thing that could give is your back. Id rather fix a landing gear and > prop than order an electric wheel chair. How strong is too strong? I > don't > have the engineering expertise to say. Someone here might. Yet the Piet > has been around for an awful long time. There hasn't been what I would > consider a rash of gear failures in reasonable landing conditions that > some > airplanes have experienced. ( if there has been I haven't heard about it > and > would welcome the chance to be educated) If people were breaking gear all > the time, I would definately beef it up. Insurance doesn't always come in > the expected package. That breaking gear might be your insurance. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:04 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear strength In a message dated 4/16/2006 10:22:01 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: A related question I posted a while back and didn't see any reply to was about the addition of a safety cable (for split type gear) to prevent the gear from totally collapsing. Anyone seen this on a Piet? RIck H. Happy Easter to All !! Rick, The safety cable is there in the plans, on Drawing No. 3, bottom center of the page. It MUST be used with Bunji chords, in the event of a bunji chord failure. When I had Bunji's, I set the length of this cable to allow the suggested 2 1/2" of travel, but it seemed I would bottom out the suspension on this cable, even for just a moderately hard landing. It sent a hard BAM throughout the airframe. I could never get my bunji's tight enough, even after shortening them up, and re-tying them 6 or 8 times...no easy chore to re-install them. I think maybe 2 3/4" would be better, but tube inside would have to be longer if that safety cable were longer. Spring of '04, I finally gave up on the bunji's, after one of them came un-tied, and retrofitted with spring gear. It's not necessary with springs, because the slot the bolt rides in will only allow X amount of deflection. I like the springs MUCH better than the bunji's...relatively maintenance free (oil once in a while), and I have Never bottomed them out. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:17 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear strength Arn't safety cables sometimes used with spring type split gear also? Just in case a weld or something breaks on a hard landing? Rick H. On 4/16/06, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/16/2006 10:22:01 AM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > A related question I posted a while back and didn't see any reply to was > about the addition of a safety cable (for split type gear) to prevent the > gear from totally collapsing. Anyone seen this on a Piet? > > RIck H. > > Happy Easter to All !! > Rick, > The safety cable is there in the plans, on Drawing No. 3, bottom > center of the page. It MUST be used with Bunji chords, in the event of a > bunji chord failure. When I had Bunji's, I set the length of this cable to > allow the suggested 2 1/2" of travel, but it seemed I would bottom out the > suspension on this cable, even for just a moderately hard landing. It sent > a hard BAM throughout the airframe. I could never get my bunji's tight > enough, even after shortening them up, and re-tying them 6 or 8 times...no > easy chore to re-install them. I think maybe 2 3/4" would be better, but > tube inside would have to be longer if that safety cable were longer. > Spring of '04, I finally gave up on the bunji's, after one of them > came un-tied, and retrofitted with spring gear. It's not necessary with > springs, because the slot the bolt rides in will only allow X amount of > deflection. I like the springs MUCH better than the bunji's...relatively > maintenance free (oil once in a while), and I have Never bottomed them out. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:52 AM PST US From: "Lynn Knoll" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Return Spring We are going with pedals. We installed Piper return springs but something stronger is required. I can't seem to find any information in the archives. I know.......if we would have followed the plans and went with a rudder bar we wouldn't be in this predicament. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Lynn & Kevin Knoll Piet/Vair Wichita ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:32:06 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Return Spring Use a rudder bar for front pit feet, connect to pedals with a 3/8 4130 rod on either side and your problem is solved. That old dumb fellow in Louisiana ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:27 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... Hello, I am new to the list, but have been monitoring it and reading about the various projects and advice. Nice. Tuesday I made the decision to take over Rob Spoo's Pietenpol project and will be no doubt asking for advice from time to time. Does anyone know if a Pietenpol has been registered as an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft so that it can be used for instruction and flown on a Sport Pilot certificate? Pete Marsh and I run a Sport Pilot instruction center at Birchwood Airport and we want to use the Pietenpol to give rides to youth interested in aviation. I haven't asked the FAA about this yet, but wondered if there were any messages in the string on this. RS Rob Stapleton Photojournalist Anchorage Alaska 907-336-9425 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Harvey Rule ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Harvey Rule Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Engine Run Up http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/harvey.rule@bell.ca.04.16.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Graham J. Hansen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Graham J. Hansen Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Pietenpol, CF-AUN http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/grhans@cable-lynx.net.04.16.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Chris Tracy ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Chris Tracy Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Simple Jig for Drilling Holes When Installing Fittings http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/catdesign@intergate.com.04.16.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:58 PM PST US From: "Alan Lyscars" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available Corky, Please don't do this. You've come too far to dump 'er now! Can we possibly convince you otherwise? Can we help you fufill your dream? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available Pieters, Times change with aging and health. That is the total reason for this decision. It has become necessary for us to rid ourselves of all these hobby goodies and the only way is to go all the way. So I am offering my Piet project with all materials on hand, power tools, books, everything. Located in Shreveport, La 3 blocks east of I-49, 3 miles south of I-20. This will be the only notice to the net. If seriously interested contact me direct. Isablcorky@aol.com. I promise you a bargain and I won't be difficult to do business with. I'll have a complete inventory available for those interested as well as a price. I was taught never make a major decision at night, always sleep on it. I did. Corky, still in Louisiana Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:33 PM PST US From: harvey rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule I for one have really gotten a lot out of Corky's posts.I hope he will stay with the web page.I understand the reasoning behind what he has to do though ,sad as it is.The times they are a changing. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:14 PM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... Rob there would be no reason to if you are going to build it. Registering it as an ELSA would get you out of the 51% requirement for building. I also think that the factory at that point can have maintenance training courses that can certify owners to do maintenance, but that might be only SLSA. If you build it under the amature built, you get the Repairmans Certificate if you build at least 51% without any additional paperwork or training. If the aircraft meets Light Sport Aircraft specs, then it can be operated by an properly certified pilot. That includes LS pilots with the proper sign offs and certifications. Neither ELSA or just experimental will allow any commercial operations so you couldn't charge for the rides you would give. SLSA allows only flight training if memory is correct. As far as asking the FAA, the FAA here is pretty set against most anything LSA. Its not surprising really when you think about how the organzation is structured. Asking someone to sign off an ELSA might be the first one that inspector has done and they don't like signing off things that they haven't done before. A more conventional experimental is something most have done for a while and would raise no paperwork concerns or red flags that could get them in trouble. If anyone else could think of a reason why he should even ask about it, Im all ears as well cause I looked at the same thing. (Only just for me not giving rides) I couldn't find a single reason why ELSA would be any better for a scratch built airplane than experimental. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Stapleton To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... Hello, I am new to the list, but have been monitoring it and reading about the various projects and advice. Nice. Tuesday I made the decision to take over Rob Spoo's Pietenpol project and will be no doubt asking for advice from time to time. Does anyone know if a Pietenpol has been registered as an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft so that it can be used for instruction and flown on a Sport Pilot certificate? Pete Marsh and I run a Sport Pilot instruction center at Birchwood Airport and we want to use the Pietenpol to give rides to youth interested in aviation. I haven't asked the FAA about this yet, but wondered if there were any messages in the string on this. RS Rob Stapleton Photojournalist Anchorage Alaska 907-336-9425 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:52 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear strength In a message dated 4/16/2006 12:15:24 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Arn't safety cables sometimes used with spring type split gear also? Just in case a weld or something breaks on a hard landing? Rick H. I've never seen them on spring gear, in fact I don't know how you would do it. As the gear takes on weight, the springs compress. Kind of strange looking when you watch the gear actuate by rocking the plane back & forth. I've done some runway hardness tests, and the gear holds up just fine. Chuck G. Home Pietenpol NX770CG ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:52 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Return Spring Do you have front pedals also? Are the front and rear linked? If so, I used a bungee cord pre made and tied it around a eye in the firewall and hooked it to each pedal, it works great. Let me know if you would like to see a pic. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Knoll To: pietenpol list Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Return Spring We are going with pedals. We installed Piper return springs but something stronger is required. I can't seem to find any information in the archives. I know.......if we would have followed the plans and went with a rudder bar we wouldn't be in this predicament. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Lynn & Kevin Knoll Piet/Vair Wichita ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:48 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... Mark, I have no intention of charging for the rides, I want to do it on behalf the EAA program for free. As for the ELSA program and the FAA, it is my understanding that you can charge for instruction while flying an ELSA. While the category is very restrictive (ie.no night flights, and no flights over 10,000 ft etc.) it is our mission to advance interest in flying and I think the Pietenpol will attract attention and can be used as an example. Now, whether I can find the time to work on this project and finish it, is a far deeper question on my mind. Thanks for your reply I will let you know what I am going to do, after I talk with the local FSDO about it. Regards, Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Blackwell Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... Rob there would be no reason to if you are going to build it. Registering it as an ELSA would get you out of the 51% requirement for building. I also think that the factory at that point can have maintenance training courses that can certify owners to do maintenance, but that might be only SLSA. If you build it under the amature built, you get the Repairmans Certificate if you build at least 51% without any additional paperwork or training. If the aircraft meets Light Sport Aircraft specs, then it can be operated by an properly certified pilot. That includes LS pilots with the proper sign offs and certifications. Neither ELSA or just experimental will allow any commercial operations so you couldn't charge for the rides you would give. SLSA allows only flight training if memory is correct. As far as asking the FAA, the FAA here is pretty set against most anything LSA. Its not surprising really when you think about how the organzation is structured. Asking someone to sign off an ELSA might be the first one that inspector has done and they don't like signing off things that they haven't done before. A more conventional experimental is something most have done for a while and would raise no paperwork concerns or red flags that could get them in trouble. If anyone else could think of a reason why he should even ask about it, Im all ears as well cause I looked at the same thing. (Only just for me not giving rides) I couldn't find a single reason why ELSA would be any better for a scratch built airplane than experimental. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Stapleton Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... Hello, I am new to the list, but have been monitoring it and reading about the various projects and advice. Nice. Tuesday I made the decision to take over Rob Spoo's Pietenpol project and will be no doubt asking for advice from time to time. Does anyone know if a Pietenpol has been registered as an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft so that it can be used for instruction and flown on a Sport Pilot certificate? Pete Marsh and I run a Sport Pilot instruction center at Birchwood Airport and we want to use the Pietenpol to give rides to youth interested in aviation. I haven't asked the FAA about this yet, but wondered if there were any messages in the string on this. RS Rob Stapleton Photojournalist Anchorage Alaska 907-336-9425