Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 AM - Re: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... (Rob Stapleton)
2. 03:55 AM - Re: tire pressure (harvey rule)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: tire pressure (harvey rule)
4. 06:17 AM - Re: (OT) Moving to Orlando, FL? (Jim Ash)
5. 08:27 AM - Science-engineering and accuracy (Sayre, William G)
6. 08:47 AM - Re: Science-engineering and accuracy (Phillips, Jack)
7. 09:13 AM - Re: tire pressure (Kenneth M. Heide)
8. 09:50 AM - Tail bracing turnbuckles (Kirk Huizenga)
9. 09:53 AM - Re: Science-engineering and accuracy (Ken)
10. 10:06 AM - Re: Science-engineering and accuracy (Isablcorky@aol.com)
11. 10:08 AM - Re: Tail bracing turnbuckles (Phillips, Jack)
12. 10:10 AM - Re: Tail bracing turnbuckles (Hans Vander Voort)
13. 10:11 AM - Re: tire pressure (Ken)
14. 10:13 AM - Re: Science-engineering and accuracy (Phillips, Jack)
15. 10:25 AM - specs can be wrong (Michael D Cuy)
16. 11:32 AM - Flying and Glider (Brown Gravy)
17. 12:25 PM - Re: Flying and Glider (Phillips, Jack)
18. 12:39 PM - Re: Flying and Glider (Jeff Boatright)
19. 03:13 PM - engineering, tire pressures, ant's-eye views (Oscar Zuniga)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Piet Project Available (Paul Carter)
21. 05:56 PM - Re: Piet Project Available (Alan Lyscars)
22. 06:29 PM - Re: Piet Project Available (Launchpad)
23. 07:27 PM - Re: Piet Project Available (Isablcorky@aol.com)
24. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Piet Project Available (Isablcorky@aol.com)
25. 10:30 PM - Re: Flying and Glider (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alaska Pietenpol project begins again... |
Mark,
I spoke with the FAA local DAR today. And he thinks that the Pientenpol
could be registered as an ELSA, but he also said that a Sport Pilot can fly
any aircraft that fits the category less than 1320 lbs.etc. I can use it for
Sport Pilot instruction, and can get signed off for night flights, use on
skis, floats etc. as needed as an endorsement for SP. He is not sure how
this would affect a normal CFI. I am looking into becoming a SP CFI so this
could work.
RS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again...
Yes you can charge for instruction in an airplane provided by the student.
You just can't rent an ELSA. I believe you can rent an SLSA. If you
registered it as an regular experimental and put lights ect on it, you would
have no night restriction or altitude restrictions on the airplane. As an
ELSA you would course how many Pieters fly at night?
For the nature of the EAA young eagles program, it would be a different
looking airplane that should be a ride they won't forget. You might even
consider it long term advertising because it was a simple flight like that,
that started an interest in aviation that one day lead me to get to an
airport and learn to fly. Sad thing is most of that type of work goes
unrewarded in a society that is so mobile. By the time that the kids you
give a ride to can afford to start, they have gone off to college and found
a job somewhere that usually isn't back home. Still worth doing in my
opinion and a whole lot of fun.
I would be interested in what your FSDO tells you and their overall attitude
toward LSA. Around here its name is mud.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Stapleton <mailto:foto@alaska.net>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 1:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again...
Mark,
I have no intention of charging for the rides, I want to do it on behalf the
EAA program for free. As for the ELSA program and the FAA, it is my
understanding that you can charge for instruction while flying an ELSA.
While the category is very restrictive (ie.no night flights, and no flights
over 10,000 ft etc.) it is our mission to advance interest in flying and I
think the Pietenpol will attract attention and can be used as an example.
Now, whether I can find the time to work on this project and finish it, is a
far deeper question on my mind.
Thanks for your reply I will let you know what I am going to do, after I
talk with the local FSDO about it.
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again...
Rob there would be no reason to if you are going to build it. Registering
it as an ELSA would get you out of the 51% requirement for building. I also
think that the factory at that point can have maintenance training courses
that can certify owners to do maintenance, but that might be only SLSA.
If you build it under the amature built, you get the Repairmans Certificate
if you build at least 51% without any additional paperwork or training. If
the aircraft meets Light Sport Aircraft specs, then it can be operated by an
properly certified pilot. That includes LS pilots with the proper sign offs
and certifications.
Neither ELSA or just experimental will allow any commercial operations so
you couldn't charge for the rides you would give. SLSA allows only flight
training if memory is correct.
As far as asking the FAA, the FAA here is pretty set against most anything
LSA. Its not surprising really when you think about how the organzation is
structured. Asking someone to sign off an ELSA might be the first one that
inspector has done and they don't like signing off things that they haven't
done before. A more conventional experimental is something most have done
for a while and would raise no paperwork concerns or red flags that could
get them in trouble.
If anyone else could think of a reason why he should even ask about it, Im
all ears as well cause I looked at the same thing. (Only just for me not
giving rides) I couldn't find a single reason why ELSA would be any better
for a scratch built airplane than experimental.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Stapleton <mailto:foto@alaska.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again...
Hello,
I am new to the list, but have been monitoring it and reading about the
various projects and advice. Nice.
Tuesday I made the decision to take over Rob Spoo's Pietenpol project and
will be no doubt asking for advice from time to time. Does anyone know if a
Pietenpol has been registered as an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft so
that it can be used for instruction and flown on a Sport Pilot certificate?
Pete Marsh and I run a Sport Pilot instruction center at Birchwood Airport
and we want to use the Pietenpol to give rides to youth interested in
aviation. I haven't asked the FAA about this yet, but wondered if there were
any messages in the string on this.
RS
Rob Stapleton Photojournalist
Anchorage Alaska
907-336-9425
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
I love this message;it's stuff like this that makes this web page really
worth while.
do not archive
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Mikee wrote-
>
> >What I like to do is kneel down and sight down the tire tread at ant level.
>
> Do you know what this does to an engineer? Drives him/her nuts!!! We need
> values, numbers, tangibles, measurables! None of this touchy-feely stuff
> that you can't measure with something. It's like standing an engineer in a
> round room and telling him to go stand in the corner... drives us nuts ;o)
>
> Now Hans gave me something that I can write down, measure, and define.
> Thank you, Hans... and Mikee- go stand in the corner at ant level ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga ( do not archive )
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
I'd really drive you nuts.I get on the old piston hand pump and jump up
and down till it looks about right.Then if the tire isn't just right
I'll find out when I land and I bounce too high or not high
enough.HAHA!Hows that for engineering!
do not archive.
harvey rule wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: harvey rule <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
>
> I love this message;it's stuff like this that makes this web page really
> worth while.
>
> do not archive
>
> Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> >
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Mikee wrote-
> >
> > >What I like to do is kneel down and sight down the tire tread at ant level.
> >
> > Do you know what this does to an engineer? Drives him/her nuts!!! We need
> > values, numbers, tangibles, measurables! None of this touchy-feely stuff
> > that you can't measure with something. It's like standing an engineer in a
> > round room and telling him to go stand in the corner... drives us nuts ;o)
> >
> > Now Hans gave me something that I can write down, measure, and define.
> > Thank you, Hans... and Mikee- go stand in the corner at ant level ;o)
> >
> > Oscar Zuniga ( do not archive )
> > San Antonio, TX
> > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: (OT) Moving to Orlando, FL? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
I lived in the Orlando area for 12 years and moved out 4 years ago. I lived in
Deltona and Winter Springs, and worked in Longwood and Maitland. There are several
grass-friendly airports around, but I don't know about hangar availability.
My J-3 was hangared at Bob Lee's in Deland originally. I haven't seen the place
in 7-8 years and can't speak for it's current condition. It was pretty ratty
then (lots of junk laying around everywhere), but the runway was good and
hangar rents were cheap. There was a big fire there 5-6 (?) years ago and a number
of old ragwings were destroyed. I don't know if they rebuilt the burned-up
hangars or not. After that, I moved the Cub to Bob White in Zellwood to a shade
hangar for a time. They have real T-hangars there with doors but they were
full-up at the time. Bob White was an OK airport and I would have had no problem
leaving my plane there long-term. From there I moved it to Mid-Florida airport
in Eustis to a community hangar. I keep up with some friends there and the
airport has changed ownership recently. Apparently the airport is in a state
of flux. Hangar rents went up and I guess the regulars are a little torqued at
some of the changes imposed by the new management. There are those expecting
it won't be open within 2-3 years. I was paying $150/month 4 years ago. Just
north of Eustis is Umatilla, where the Eustis regulars are said to be migrating.
Umatilla is a nice little airport, but it's asphalt. There is also a grass
airport called Orlando Country in Apopka, but I know nothing of the airport or
it's hangars.
Depending on where you're living/working there are other options. I was on the
north side of Orlando and favored that side for airports. There seemed to be more
on the north side anyhow. Sanford has had a waiting list as long as I can
remember. Orlando Executive is grossly expensive, but it is smack downtown if
that's your thing. On those occasions I did fly out of Exec, I was never less
than #4 or 5 in the runup. Way too much traffic to suit me, and I don't like
having kerosene-burners hot on my tail on the approach. On the south side, Kissimmee
is a pretty good-sized airport but last I knew the hangar rents there were
astronomical ($300+). Out east, Arthur Dunn had some nice folks, but I don't
know about hangar availability.
There might be one or two others, but those are the significant ones.
There are EAA chapters around, including #635 in Deland which I was a member of,
one in Longwood and I think there's one out at Arthur Dunn. The EAA has a pretty
good web site for finding local chapters.
If you don't have an airplane already and are just looking to start building, find
a home with a large garage or some shop space and do your work there. You'll
get a lot more done when you don't have to drive to the airport every time
you're inspired to work on it. Bear in mind virtually no homes in that area have
basements. Finding water usually requires 10 minutes work with a shovel, so
basements are just not practical.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 17, 2006 10:20 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: (OT) Moving to Orlando, FL?
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt@hotmail.com>
>
>Folks - I've recently accepted a position working in Orlando, FL. I'd love
>to talk to anyone who lives in the area about both the city in general and
>the GA/homebuilding "scene" in particular. Particularly, I'd be interested
>in finding a GA airport in the area with reasonable hangar space/costs (so I
>can finally start the aircraft project I've been planning now for some
>years.)
>
>Please contact me off the list if you have any comments - I'd love to hear
>them!
>
>Do not archive, please.
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard T. Perry perryrt@hotmail.com
>"Fraser, there's a guy on my corner who asks me every
>morning if I've seen God; do you really think he
>expects me to point Him out?"
>"Well, you know, Ray, if you did, perhaps he'd stop
>asking."
>
>Ray Vecchio and Benton Fraser, "Hawk and a Handsaw", Due_South
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Science-engineering and accuracy |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
I have enjoyed the engineering banter towards tire pressure a great
deal. The method employed by Michael Cuy is referred to as "Eyeball
Engineering" in my circles and I have seen it contradict and even
correct factual number crunching on occasion. There's times when you
can just tell something isn't right without being able to point at what
that something is. Factual number crunching is amazing, and I see and
enjoy its use, but it sure makes me smile when simple common sense and
eyeball engineering makes it pail.
With accuracy and the construction of a Pietenpol, I constantly remind
myself that farm-kids in the 1930s used to successfully build and fly
these ships. Certainly doesn't excuse me from striving to do the best I
can - but when I'm looking for thousands of an inch precision (used to
be a machinist) I have to chuckle and wonder if those farm kids even
knew what a micrometer was. That's where gas-pipes for axles and the
third leaf of a Model-A front suspension comes from for parts - eyeball
engineering again and more common sense than I was born with! (dang
it).
Bill Sayre
Message 6
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| Subject: | Science-engineering and accuracy |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
I'm continually amazed by the precision some people try to acheive when
building airplanes. They would possibly be surprised to learn that when
i was working on the design of the F-16 back in the mid '70's, the
standard tolerance for airframe components was +/- .031" . That's +/-
1/32". Not too terribly precise.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sayre,
William G
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Science-engineering and accuracy
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G"
<william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
I have enjoyed the engineering banter towards tire pressure a great
deal. The method employed by Michael Cuy is referred to as "Eyeball
Engineering" in my circles and I have seen it contradict and even
correct factual number crunching on occasion. There's times when you
can just tell something isn't right without being able to point at what
that something is. Factual number crunching is amazing, and I see and
enjoy its use, but it sure makes me smile when simple common sense and
eyeball engineering makes it pail.
With accuracy and the construction of a Pietenpol, I constantly remind
myself that farm-kids in the 1930s used to successfully build and fly
these ships. Certainly doesn't excuse me from striving to do the best I
can - but when I'm looking for thousands of an inch precision (used to
be a machinist) I have to chuckle and wonder if those farm kids even
knew what a micrometer was. That's where gas-pipes for axles and the
third leaf of a Model-A front suspension comes from for parts - eyeball
engineering again and more common sense than I was born with! (dang
it).
Bill Sayre
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
Tracy,
Excellent format and visual perception of the process...however, I stiull use
the trusty calibrated eyeball with digitcus indici (pointer finger).
Ken
Fargoian
Catdesign <catdesign@intergate.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign"
Oscar, I'm an Engineering Geologist, which is kind of like the middle man
for an engineer and a geologist. I take the vague, but totally accurate,
science of geology, (put three geologist in a room and you'll get four
answers, one from each geologist and their consensus opinion, all of which
are just as correct as the other), and I put in words the number crunching
black voodoo art practicing engineers can understand (I always love to point
out that their precise four decimal place answer started with data rounded
to the nearest inch and three people counting the same number rarely get the
same answer).
So Oscar, let me see if I can put it in a way you will under stand.
A tire should have a tire pressure where 99.5 +/- 0.5 tire tread units, as
measured perpendicular to the long axis of the rotating mass, are in contact
with the surface at standard load. All pressures should be within 97
percent of the average of five pressure tests, taken after inflating and
deflating each tire five times in the lab (hanger) to the 99.5 +/- 0.5 tread
contact. A new pressure curve shall be established when the temperature
changes +/- 20 degrees or every 60 days, which ever occurs first. All tire
pressure measurement not meeting the specifications shall be inflated or
deflated until 99.5 +/- tire tread units are in contact.
Hope this helps
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga"
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tire pressure
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
>
>
> Mikee wrote-
>
>>What I like to do is kneel down and sight down the tire tread at ant
>>level.
>
> Do you know what this does to an engineer? Drives him/her nuts!!! We
> need values, numbers, tangibles, measurables! None of this touchy-feely
> stuff that you can't measure with something. It's like standing an
> engineer in a round room and telling him to go stand in the corner...
> drives us nuts ;o)
>
> Now Hans gave me something that I can write down, measure, and define.
> Thank you, Hans... and Mikee- go stand in the corner at ant level ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga ( do not archive )
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tail bracing turnbuckles |
Is there any reason to pick one placement of the turnbuckles on the
tail bracing wires over another. In other words, does it make any
difference if the turnbuckle is on the V stab fitting or out on the H
Stab fitting. The plans show them out on the H stab, but it doesn't
seem like it would make any difference to me.
Thanks for the input
Kirk
Kirk Huizenga
Community Expert
kirk.huizenga@moundsviewschools.org
651.482.8203
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Science-engineering and accuracy |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken <av8orken@adelphia.net>
When I build I try for 1/8" which four times more error than you were
building.
Ken
Phillips, Jack wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> I'm continually amazed by the precision some people try to acheive when
> building airplanes. They would possibly be surprised to learn that when
> i was working on the design of the F-16 back in the mid '70's, the
> standard tolerance for airframe components was +/- .031" . That's +/-
> 1/32". Not too terribly precise.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sayre,
> William G
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:25 AM
> To: pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Science-engineering and accuracy
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G"
> <william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
>
> I have enjoyed the engineering banter towards tire pressure a great
> deal. The method employed by Michael Cuy is referred to as "Eyeball
> Engineering" in my circles and I have seen it contradict and even
> correct factual number crunching on occasion. There's times when you
> can just tell something isn't right without being able to point at what
> that something is. Factual number crunching is amazing, and I see and
> enjoy its use, but it sure makes me smile when simple common sense and
> eyeball engineering makes it pail.
>
> With accuracy and the construction of a Pietenpol, I constantly remind
> myself that farm-kids in the 1930s used to successfully build and fly
> these ships. Certainly doesn't excuse me from striving to do the best I
> can - but when I'm looking for thousands of an inch precision (used to
> be a machinist) I have to chuckle and wonder if those farm kids even
> knew what a micrometer was. That's where gas-pipes for axles and the
> third leaf of a Model-A front suspension comes from for parts - eyeball
> engineering again and more common sense than I was born with! (dang
> it).
>
> Bill Sayre
>
>
>
> Working together. For life.(sm)
> _________________________________________________
>
> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged,
proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Science-engineering and accuracy |
Bill, If you're talking about accuracy, may I point out from memory that BHP
recommended the center leaf of a Model T front spring. That would be #4 as
there were 7 leaves. Up or down #4 is the center.
Submitted by a southern smartass for the sake of accuracy.
Still in Louisiana
Message 11
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| Subject: | Tail bracing turnbuckles |
I put mine on the Vertical Stab fittings (and the fuselage fittings) for
a couple of reasons:
1 The less weight outboard the faster the roll rate (at 35 degrees
per second, you don't want to do anything to DECREASE the roll rate!)
2 More importantly, it is easier to safety wire the turnbuckles
with the larger angle between the cable and the vertical stab, than
between the cable and the horizontal stab.
Jack Phillips
Enjoying the good flying weather and blowing the dust out of the
cockpits in Icarus Plummet
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kirk
Huizenga
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail bracing turnbuckles
Is there any reason to pick one placement of the turnbuckles on the tail
bracing wires over another. In other words, does it make any difference
if the turnbuckle is on the V stab fitting or out on the H Stab fitting.
The plans show them out on the H stab, but it doesn't seem like it would
make any difference to me.
Thanks for the input
Kirk
Kirk Huizenga
Community Expert
kirk.huizenga@moundsviewschools.org
651.482.8203
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tail bracing turnbuckles |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Kirk,
Here is my 0.02 worth;
I used 1/16 cable with turnbuckels at H Stab.
The V Stab fitting has no room for turn buckles or shackles as two cables
are attached on one fitting with holes very close together
The cable goes direct through the fitting hole (with a AN 100 thimble) and
no shackle.
The H stab connection is the forked end of the turnbuckel and corresponding
clevis pin
Hans
Kirk Huizenga
<kirk.huizenga@mo
undsviewschools.o To
rg> pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent by: cc
owner-pietenpol-l
ist-server@matron Subject
ics.com Pietenpol-List: Tail bracing
turnbuckles
04/18/2006 11:47
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Is there any reason to pick one placement of the turnbuckles on the tail
bracing wires over another. In other words, does it make any difference if
the turnbuckle is on the V stab fitting or out on the H Stab fitting. The
plans show them out on the H stab, but it doesn't seem like it would make
any difference to me.
Thanks for the input
Kirk
Kirk Huizenga
Community Expert
kirk.huizenga@moundsviewschools.org
651.482.8203
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken <av8orken@adelphia.net>
Chris, I see one mistake in your calculations. The new pressure curve
should be calculated every 30 days not every 60 days.
Ken
Catdesign wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
>
> Oscar, I'm an Engineering Geologist, which is kind of like the middle
> man for an engineer and a geologist. I take the vague, but totally
> accurate, science of geology, (put three geologist in a room and you'll
> get four answers, one from each geologist and their consensus opinion,
> all of which are just as correct as the other), and I put in words the
> number crunching black voodoo art practicing engineers can understand (I
> always love to point out that their precise four decimal place answer
> started with data rounded to the nearest inch and three people counting
> the same number rarely get the same answer).
>
> So Oscar, let me see if I can put it in a way you will under stand.
> A tire should have a tire pressure where 99.5 +/- 0.5 tire tread units,
> as measured perpendicular to the long axis of the rotating mass, are in
> contact with the surface at standard load. All pressures should be
> within 97 percent of the average of five pressure tests, taken after
> inflating and deflating each tire five times in the lab (hanger) to the
> 99.5 +/- 0.5 tread contact. A new pressure curve shall be established
> when the temperature changes +/- 20 degrees or every 60 days, which ever
> occurs first. All tire pressure measurement not meeting the
> specifications shall be inflated or deflated until 99.5 +/- tire tread
> units are in contact.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 11:40 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tire pressure
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
>> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Mikee wrote-
>>
>>> What I like to do is kneel down and sight down the tire tread at ant
>>> level.
>>
>> Do you know what this does to an engineer? Drives him/her nuts!!! We
>> need values, numbers, tangibles, measurables! None of this
>> touchy-feely stuff that you can't measure with something. It's like
>> standing an engineer in a round room and telling him to go stand in
>> the corner... drives us nuts ;o)
>>
>> Now Hans gave me something that I can write down, measure, and define.
>> Thank you, Hans... and Mikee- go stand in the corner at ant level ;o)
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga ( do not archive )
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Science-engineering and accuracy |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Having said that most people try to get too precise, there are areas
where precision is good. Rigging the wings is one such area.. Fuselage
alignment is another (Tony Bingelis once said that building an airplane
is just one exercise in alignment after another).
When I rigged my wings I used a surveyor's transit and managed to get
the wingtips within 1/16" of each other (not difficult, just tedious and
takes several people). For that I was rewarded with a plane that flies
wings level, and will fly hands off pretty well (it won't fly "Feet Off"
for more than a couple of seconds though, like any Pietenpol). No
external trim tabs required.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Science-engineering and accuracy
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ken <av8orken@adelphia.net>
When I build I try for 1/8" which four times more error than you were
building.
Ken
Phillips, Jack wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
<Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> I'm continually amazed by the precision some people try to acheive
when
> building airplanes. They would possibly be surprised to learn that
when
> i was working on the design of the F-16 back in the mid '70's, the
> standard tolerance for airframe components was +/- .031" . That's +/-
> 1/32". Not too terribly precise.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sayre,
> William G
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:25 AM
> To: pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Science-engineering and accuracy
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G"
> <william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
>
> I have enjoyed the engineering banter towards tire pressure a great
> deal. The method employed by Michael Cuy is referred to as "Eyeball
> Engineering" in my circles and I have seen it contradict and even
> correct factual number crunching on occasion. There's times when you
> can just tell something isn't right without being able to point at
what
> that something is. Factual number crunching is amazing, and I see and
> enjoy its use, but it sure makes me smile when simple common sense and
> eyeball engineering makes it pail.
>
> With accuracy and the construction of a Pietenpol, I constantly remind
> myself that farm-kids in the 1930s used to successfully build and fly
> these ships. Certainly doesn't excuse me from striving to do the best
I
> can - but when I'm looking for thousands of an inch precision (used to
> be a machinist) I have to chuckle and wonder if those farm kids even
> knew what a micrometer was. That's where gas-pipes for axles and the
> third leaf of a Model-A front suspension comes from for parts -
eyeball
> engineering again and more common sense than I was born with! (dang
> it).
>
> Bill Sayre
>
>
>
> Working together. For life.(sm)
> _________________________________________________
>
> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese -
Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska:
www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
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Message 15
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| Subject: | specs can be wrong |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Funny how after I bought new tires for our car about a year ago I used two
different tire pressure gauges
to set the "correct factory spec" tire pressure in all four tires. I
found that keeping the tire pressure where the
book said to caused the tires to wear out the center tread
first-----meaning it was too high. I had to lower the tire
pressures to below book value to get them to wear evenly. So much for
specs sometimes.
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Flying and Glider |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>
Hello everyone
I'm new to the list. This is my first posting.
The question I have may have been covered in the past in this forum, but I haven't
come across it, so here goes. Is it possible to construct an aircamper or
skyscout from the plans found in the old Flying and Glider Manuals? There are
lots of missing dimensions and contradicting info. in these plans and instructions.
Do the later plans address enough of these problems to justify their purchase,
or are they simply larger scale drawings?
I'm currently drafting out the plans on AutoCad to check the dimensions and create
full size plots for jigs. Will this be enough to begin and complete one of
these planes?
Brown Gravy
aka: Manny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29192#29192
Message 17
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| Subject: | Flying and Glider |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
It is quite possible to build an Air Camper from the Flying & Glider
Manual plans, but I suspect you can build a better airplane more easily
from the "Improved" plans of 1934. There are some differences
structurally, and you have to figure Bernard wouldn't have gone to the
trouble to redesign it for no reason. The plans are only $75, and
include such niceties as the 3-piece wing design, as well as the design
of a motor mount for Continental A65's. Of course, if you are planning
to use the Model A Ford, you won't need that.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brown
Gravy
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying and Glider
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brown Gravy"
<mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>
Hello everyone
I'm new to the list. This is my first posting.
The question I have may have been covered in the past in this forum, but
I haven't come across it, so here goes. Is it possible to construct an
aircamper or skyscout from the plans found in the old Flying and Glider
Manuals? There are lots of missing dimensions and contradicting info. in
these plans and instructions. Do the later plans address enough of these
problems to justify their purchase, or are they simply larger scale
drawings?
I'm currently drafting out the plans on AutoCad to check the dimensions
and create full size plots for jigs. Will this be enough to begin and
complete one of these planes?
Brown Gravy
aka: Manny
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29192#29192
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Flying and Glider |
Cc: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Though I bought my Piet ready-made, I have access to the plans from
Don Pietenpol, to the Flying and Glider Manual, and to the Grega
plans. My opinion is that not purchasing the plans is a false
economy. They are well-done and clear. I've used them a lot to figure
out how the plane was built, where I need to closely inspect at
annual and at every preflight, what I need to watch out for if
modifications are contemplated. I don't think there's anything to be
gained by trying to build from the FGM solely.
At 11:30 AM -0700 4/18/06, Brown Gravy wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello everyone
>I'm new to the list. This is my first posting.
>The question I have may have been covered in the past in this forum,
>but I haven't come across it, so here goes. Is it possible to
>construct an aircamper or skyscout from the plans found in the old
>Flying and Glider Manuals? There are lots of missing dimensions and
>contradicting info. in these plans and instructions. Do the later
>plans address enough of these problems to justify their purchase, or
>are they simply larger scale drawings?
>I'm currently drafting out the plans on AutoCad to check the
>dimensions and create full size plots for jigs. Will this be enough
>to begin and complete one of these planes?
>
>Brown Gravy
>aka: Manny
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 19
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| Subject: | engineering, tire pressures, ant's-eye views |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Okay, to put this engineering thing to bed, there is a picture here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P4150001.JPG
The picture shows 41CC on its (currently underinflated) tires, showing 100%
of its tire treads contacting the hangar floor, plus some of the sidewall is
slouching onto the floor too. So... I wanted to inflate them but wasn't
sure how much.
I will inflate them to 28 psi to start with, eyeball from the ant's eye view
to see how the contact patch looks, make a mental snapshot of that, and give
it a shot. Thanks to everybody who commented, serious or otherwise!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Project Available |
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available
Pieters,
Times change with aging and health. That is the total reason for this decision.
It has become necessary for us to rid ourselves of all these hobby goodies
and the only way is to go all the way. So I am offering my Piet project with all
materials on hand, power tools, books, everything. Located in Shreveport, La
3 blocks east of I-49, 3 miles south of I-20. This will be the only notice to
the net. If seriously interested contact me direct. Isablcorky@aol.com. I promise
you a bargain and I won't be difficult to do business with. I'll have a
complete inventory available for those interested as well as a price.
I was taught never make a major decision at night, always sleep on it. I did.
Corky, still in Louisiana
Do Not Archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Project Available |
Here, Here, Paul!
C'Mon, Guys,
Corky's just having a bad (day, week, time 'o month) fill in the blank.
Seriously, Corky, you've got a lot of guys who're rooting for you. I'm only 48
young, and I'd be REALLY be disappointed if a man of your time gave this project
up. You're the Ones who won the War and went to the moon. Will it be your
legacy that "well, we did our time, and we're ready for the deep six"?
Corky, I hope not. We still need your leadership, your expertise, your friendship.
Until your last breath you are a needed and wanted partner to all of us
adventurers-in-kind. Surely you know this to be true.
Anyone on this list who feels similarly, please add your comment to Corky. Don't
let go of him.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Carter
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Project Available
Pieters,
Times change with aging and health. That is the total reason for this decision.
It has become necessary for us to rid ourselves of all these hobby goodies
and the only way is to go all the way. So I am offering my Piet project with
all materials on hand, power tools, books, everything. Located in Shreveport,
La 3 blocks east of I-49, 3 miles south of I-20. This will be the only notice
to the net. If seriously interested contact me direct. Isablcorky@aol.com. I
promise you a bargain and I won't be difficult to do business with. I'll have
a complete inventory available for those interested as well as a price.
I was taught never make a major decision at night, always sleep on it. I did.
Corky, still in Louisiana
Do Not Archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Project Available |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Launchpad" <launchpad@chartermi.net>
I am new to this group and am just at the first stage of building, but geeze Corky..
Looks like you have a great following. Now I hope you stay on so I can learn
of you like everyone else has.
** Corky, will you please be my building sponser? **
Brian Johnson, Brighton ,Michigan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29275#29275
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Project Available |
Pieters,
Don't be so damn fatalistic. I don't plan going anywhere until it happens.
About winning the war. Let's be real technically correct here. I held up my
hand and said "I Do. Then Yes Sir, No Sir and what they ordered me to do. Like
8
million others. That's it in a sentence. I was lucky.
Have a bit of a leg ailment which seems to be getting worse. Can't stand
very long without pain. But the main reason for this course of action is to
relieve our children (8) of having to sort out the good junk from the bad junk
and then trash it all in the same can when that time comes.
I have a taker for NX311CC and it should be relocated to Georgetown, Texas
next week
Isabelle my bride and I appreciate the interest of the list. Wish I could
meet each and everyone of you personally. Might try.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Piet Project Available |
Brian,
It's obvious that you are new to this list. I have tempered the last few
years but the thought of sponsering a Michigan Yankee may not set too well with
my upbringings. Afterall it was tough marrying an Illinois bride but you might
be asking a bit too much. I'll sleep on it.
Corky, a native Texan forever in Louisiana
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Flying and Glider |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Also the rib bracing in the Piet FGM is not right.
The one in the later Sky Scout FGM is changed.
The last diagonal after the rear spar is opposite,
as it is in the plan set as well. There was an
incident with one plane in a steep slip and hard
pull-out that folded part of the trailing edge which
prompted that change.
If I hadn't bought all the manuals I would have built
all my ribs the wrong way. It would be wise to buy
the plans.
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying and Glider
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> Though I bought my Piet ready-made, I have access to the plans from
> Don Pietenpol, to the Flying and Glider Manual, and to the Grega
> plans. My opinion is that not purchasing the plans is a false
> economy. They are well-done and clear.>
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