---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/26/06: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:27 AM - email list question (Bernadette) 2. 05:37 AM - Re: corvair rebuild was Trim tab was pitch trim (Hans Vander Voort) 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life (Rick Holland) 4. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio (Bill Church) 5. 06:15 AM - Re: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life (Rick Holland) 6. 06:26 AM - Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life (Hans Vander Voort) 7. 06:58 AM - Re: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life () 8. 07:00 AM - Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life () 9. 07:20 AM - Re: corvair rebuild was Trim tab was pitch trim (Glenn Thomas) 10. 07:21 AM - Re: Brakes (Phillips, Jack) 11. 08:46 AM - Re: Broadhead to Oshkosh (greg menoche) 12. 11:20 AM - Rib Jig (Carl Vought) 13. 03:23 PM - Re: Brakes (Kirk Huizenga) 14. 04:17 PM - WAHOO!!!!!!! (The Schuerrs) 15. 04:32 PM - Fw: spoked wheels (RBush96589@aol.com) 16. 05:05 PM - Re: Fw: spoked wheels () 17. 06:47 PM - Re: WAHOO!!!!!!! (Dick Navratil) 18. 06:54 PM - Re: Brakes (Don Emch) 19. 07:05 PM - Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio (Don Emch) 20. 09:17 PM - Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life (Rcaprd@aol.com) 21. 09:22 PM - Re: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life (Rcaprd@aol.com) 22. 09:37 PM - Re: Broadhead to Oshkosh (Ken Anderson) 23. 09:54 PM - Re: Re: Brakes (Catdesign) 24. 09:55 PM - Re: Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio (Catdesign) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:20 AM PST US From: "Bernadette" Subject: Pietenpol-List: email list question Greetings We moved into a new place this month, , , with shop space big enough for airplane building at last. My ISP couldn't forward my service so I have a new email address. How do I change settings on this list to continue to receive the digest? DocFont ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair rebuild was Trim tab was pitch trim From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Rob, I have not seen the Wynne video on engine disassembly so I can't comment. But taking one apart is the easy part. Putting it back together is the hard part. If you are unfamiliar with engine rebuilding, get William Wynne's tapes. I only have the introduction tape but that seemed very informative. For rebuilding the Corvair you must get, WW Manual, Richard Finch's book on Corvair and the GM Shop manual Hans "Rob Stapleton" Sent by: To owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matron cc ics.com Subject RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was 04/26/2006 01:54 pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" Hans, Oscar tells me you have experience with the Corvair rebuild? Can you comment on the Wynne video about taking the engine apart? If you have seen it. Rob Stapleton -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Rick, The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not connected (no torque tube) Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other. Unless of course you place servos in both. Same for aluminum trim tabs Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs. With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on the stick to break something. The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during aerobatics (better bring a parachute) Hans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:06 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both? Rick H On 4/25/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort < > hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> > > Rick, > > The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not > connected (no torque tube) > Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other. > Unless of course you place servos in both. > Same for aluminum trim tabs > > Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs. > With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on > the stick to break something. > > The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during > aerobatics (better bring a parachute) > > Hans > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio From: "Bill Church" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Don, Your plane looks fantastic. Nice and clean. Those wheel covers look great. How do you do those things? Bill C. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:19 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life Great idea, call it an ailevator. If you lose aileron control you can turn using differential elevator and rudder control. Just like the controls on a flying wing. On 4/25/06, harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: > > How bout having two individual control sticks,one for one side of the > elevator and one for the other.That would make for some interesting flyin= g > eh! > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack T. Textor > *Sent:* April 25, 2006 10:47 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life > > > Rick, > > I too have considered the MAC. My RV 8 had one, they were great. The > problem is the thickness of the Piets H-Stab is not enough to completely > house the servo. Also the Stabs are not directly tied together. > > Jack Textor > > > Thoughts of losing elevator control like this guy did is the reason that I > have thought of installing independent elevator trim as you see on Pipers > and Cessnas. Have even looked at the Mac electronic trim servos, just a b= ig > RC servo that would fit inside one of the flippers with 3 wires running u= p > to the cockpit. Landing with only trim control wouldn't be fun but > preferable to bailing out with no parachute. > > Rick H. > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Rick, I would put one on both, otherwise one would be in trim and one not. You will get a rolling effect. The cable and bellcrank system will transfer some trim to the other flipper but not as efficient as a rigid torque tube. Hans "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life 04/26/2006 08:09 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both? Rick H On 4/25/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort < hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> Rick, The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not connected (no torque tube) Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other. Unless of course you place servos in both. Same for aluminum trim tabs Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs. With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on the stick to break something. The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during aerobatics (better bring a parachute) ========================== - The Pietenwww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========================= - NEW MATRONICS========================= - nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ================================================ -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life From: On my old Lazair we used to have things called ruddervators on the inverted V.They would both go up and down for elevator and for rudder they would both go in the same direction .Very interesting set up on the mixer at the front.If you ever get near a Lazair Ultralight,check it out. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: April 26, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life Great idea, call it an ailevator. If you lose aileron control you can turn using differential elevator and rudder control. Just like the controls on a flying wing. On 4/25/06, harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: How bout having two individual control sticks,one for one side of the elevator and one for the other.That would make for some interesting flying eh! ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: April 25, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life Rick, I too have considered the MAC. My RV 8 had one, they were great. The problem is the thickness of the Piets H-Stab is not enough to completely house the servo. Also the Stabs are not directly tied together. Jack Textor Thoughts of losing elevator control like this guy did is the reason that I have thought of installing independent elevator trim as you see on Pipers and Cessnas. Have even looked at the Mac electronic trim servos, just a big RC servo that would fit inside one of the flippers with 3 wires running up to the cockpit. Landing with only trim control wouldn't be fun but preferable to bailing out with no parachute. Rick H. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life From: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: On my N3 Pup I have an in cabin control for cranking in and out for tab setting either way,but the tab itself is only on one elevator and it's close to the rudder side of that elevator.I don't get any role from it,even when fully activated. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: April 26, 2006 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Rick, I would put one on both, otherwise one would be in trim and one not. You will get a rolling effect. The cable and bellcrank system will transfer some trim to the other flipper but not as efficient as a rigid torque tube. Hans "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life 04/26/2006 08:09 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both? Rick H On 4/25/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort < hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> Rick, The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not connected (no torque tube) Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other. Unless of course you place servos in both. Same for aluminum trim tabs Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs. With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on the stick to break something. The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during aerobatics (better bring a parachute) ========================== - The Pietenwww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========================= - NEW MATRONICS========================= - nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ================================================ -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair rebuild was Trim tab was pitch trim From: "Glenn Thomas" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" Hi, I have the disassembly video. Like the stage 1 assembly video it is good. He talks you through deciding what to keep and what to discard and gives you a heads-up on things that are problematic and what areas people tend to break when they do it incorrectly. What I value most in all of his materials is that he presents it in a way that reduces the process of disassembly and making the conversion to a straight-forward process that any careful somewhat mechanically inclined individual should be able to reproduce. For the $20 I spent for the video I think it was worth it. I'm not a mechanic but I am a careful, mechanically inclined individual. That's my opinion. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30836#30836 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brakes From: "Phillips, Jack" Fred when choosing brakes bear in mind that with large diameter wheels it takes a lot of brake to stop it (airplanes quit using large wheels about the same time they started using brakes). Look at the size of the front disc on a Harley-Davidson. Most go-kart brakes have pretty small discs (because they have small wheels). I have regular 6" Cleveland hydraulic disc brakes on my Pietenpol, with 21" wheels. The brakes will stop it (gently), and will hold it for a run-up but cannot hold it at full throttle. My advice would be to use the largest diameter discs you can find. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TBYH@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brakes I'm looking in to various go-kart brakes for my Piet and just wondering what most of you use -- the mechanically actuated disc brakes, or the hydraulic juice brake calipers. I see advantages/disadvantages to both and wanted to see what all of the experts have to say! I'm building the Jenny-style landing gear and will use disc brakes -- just wondering if mechanical or juice... Got all the tail feathers finished over the weekend -- less hinges (will install those tonight). Came out nice and light...then I'll get the fuselage down from the ceiling joists and start putting landing gear together... Hey, less than 90 days to Brodhead! Fred B. La Crosse, WI Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm) This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege= d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i= n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N= orsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:04 AM PST US From: greg menoche Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead to Oshkosh --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:34 AM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Jig I hope you guys will forgive me if this has shown up on the list, but I don't think it ever made it. I think it wound up in the spam heap. Attached is a photo of A rib jig I made while buiding an Airbike wing. It is mounted on a piece of particle board shelving and uses toggle clamps instead of nails or staples. The advantage is that you can glue gussets on both sides at one time. A little waxpaper helps keep the rib from sticking to the jig.......Carl Vought ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:15 PM PST US From: "Kirk Huizenga" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kirk Huizenga" I have thought about using Mtn Bike disk brakes. The largest I have seen are 203mm or about 8", but another factor is that the pads probably don't have as much surface area Clevland pads or even small go-kart pads - so the friction coefficient between the pad and brake will be less I'll do a bit more research and try to figure it out. Is there anyone that has used MTB disk brakes on a Piet? Hydraulic or Mechanical? What size wheels? What size disk? Shimano, Avid,.....? Kirk >>> Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com 04/26/06 9:18 AM >>> Fred when choosing brakes bear in mind that with large diameter wheels it takes a lot of brake to stop it (airplanes quit using large wheels about the same time they started using brakes). Look at the size of the front disc on a Harley-Davidson. Most go-kart brakes have pretty small discs (because they have small wheels). I have regular 6" Cleveland hydraulic disc brakes on my Pietenpol, with 21" wheels. The brakes will stop it (gently), and will hold it for a run-up but cannot hold it at full throttle. My advice would be to use the largest diameter discs you can find. Jack Phillips NX899JP ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:58 PM PST US From: "The Schuerrs" Subject: Pietenpol-List: WAHOO!!!!!!! OH YEA!!! I bought my first wood today. I'm replacing a friend's 2 ft. window and, doggoneit, I couldn't find any suitable planking material in the 2 foot section, but there was a beautiful 2x10x16 with the sweetest grain, that should work fine(for a plank that will soon be my fuselage and wing parts!!! No plans, no ply, but at least I have my wood!! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:51 PM PST US From: RBush96589@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: spoked wheels Return-path: From: RBush96589@aol.com Full-name: RBush96589 Subject: spoked wheels -------------------------------1146094082 hello group, this is for mike c. or jack phillips or for any one who used buchanans spoke and wheel. i have my hubs turned and drilled and am planning on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my question is. when i call to tell them what i want to have done do i need to tell them these are for something other than an airplane.seems like i heard something about they would not build them for planes thanks,Robert Bush -------------------------------1146094082
hello group,  this is for mike c. or jack phillips  or f= or any one who used buchanans spoke and wheel. i have my hubs turned and drilled and am planning on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my questio= n is. when i call to tell them what i want to have done do i need to tell them= these are for something other than an airplane.seems like i heard something about they would not build them for planes           &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;        thanks,Robert Bush            =    
 -------------------------------1146094082-- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: spoked wheels From: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: go to mykitplane.com and print out the Buchanan's invoice I put in my files area and ask for what they sent us...... Jim Markle -----Original Message----- From: RBush96589@aol.com Subj: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: spoked wheels Size: 1K From: RBush96589@aol.com Subject: spoked wheels hello group,this is for mike c. or jack phillips or for any one who used buchanans spoke and wheel. i havemy hubs turned and drilled and am planning on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my question is. when i call to tell them what i want to have done do i need to tell them these are for something other than an airplane.seems like i heard something about they would not build them for planesthanks,Robert Bush ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:08 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WAHOO!!!!!!! Well that's step 1, now for step 2. The end will soon be in sight. Hopefully you have a saw. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: The Schuerrs To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: WAHOO!!!!!!! OH YEA!!! I bought my first wood today. I'm replacing a friend's 2 ft. window and, doggoneit, I couldn't find any suitable planking material in the 2 foot section, but there was a beautiful 2x10x16 with the sweetest grain, that should work fine(for a plank that will soon be my fuselage and wing parts!!! No plans, no ply, but at least I have my wood!! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes From: "Don Emch" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" Hi Fred, I have 19" spoked wheels on mine. I use a 5" mechanical drum brake from Kart World out of Cleveland, OH. The brakes are very simple and low profile. They are cable actuated and are attached to hand levers under the instument panel. The hand levers are just aftermarket motorcycle handles from a local motorcycle shop. They are placed close enough together that I can hold both of them at once for the run-up. They are just enough to barely hold the run-up. Sometimes, by the time I finish the run-up I've crept a foot or so. I can deal with that. The only other time I use them is for taxiing. They seem to be okay for that. A liitle planning ahead is a good idea too. Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30982#30982 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio From: "Don Emch" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" Bill... The wheel covers are just regular doped fabric. I made an aluminum disk/ring at the hub on both the inside and the outside. Glued the fabric to it then positioned it over the hub. Then just glued the fabric around the inside edge of the rim where the tire mounts. Made sure I had a few inches of glued area around there. Then just finished it like any other doped fabric. Tire mounting is not fun! Lots of soap, little wood wedges, cussing, and sore fingers. I am not looking forward to replacing those things some day. I'll have to make sure the kids aren't around when I do! Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30984#30984 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:53 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life In a message dated 4/26/2006 8:11:46 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both? Rick, If you are using this method, you need a trim tab on Both flippers. I would caution against using metal tabs, because holes for the screws in the wood will not only weaken the wood slightly, it is also a point for moisture infiltration. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:45 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life In a message dated 4/26/2006 8:16:31 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Great idea, call it an ailevator. If you lose aileron control you can turn using differential elevator and rudder control. Just like the controls on a flying wing. One of the guys in my Hillhoppers R. C. Flying Club (years ago) used separate servo's on each half of the flippers, and coupled them with the ailerons, using the new type computer radio. The intent was to get a higher roll rate. It made no noticable difference. Conclusion was that the flippers do not have a long enough arm away from the longititude axis to have any effect, other than causing a lot of drag and slowing down the airspeed. Lesson learned. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:34 PM PST US From: "Ken Anderson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead to Oshkosh Heres some places that we have stayed. Crazy Horse Campground. N3201 Crazy Horse Ln. Brodhead, WI 53520 Voice: (608) 897-2207 Fax: (608) 897-3611 E-mail: info@crazyhorsewi.com Outside Link: www.crazyhorsewi.com Description: Beautiful family campground on the Sugar River. Canoes, tubes, paddle boats, fishing, driving range, batting cages, mini golf, pool, store, game room, activities, pedal karts. Large campground with alot of activities for famlies. Very popular with famlies with kids. Pool is smallish and can get crowded. Fishing at the river. Good plase to stay. 10min to the airport. Flanagans Pearl Lake Campground W 4585 S Pearl Lake Rd. Red Granite, WI 54970 Voice: (920) 566-2758 E-mail: plcamp@vbe.com Description: 30 miles west of Oshkosh E.A.A. Convention. 50 acres of shaded sites. Large, sandy, filtered swimming pond. Modern facilities. Scheduled activities. Credit cards accepted. Have stayed here several times. Nice place all sites tree covered. Water spigots can be some distance from site have plenty of hose. Fairly large sandy pond for swimming about 5ft deep. Don't think there's any fishing. Usually have sites available last minuite. Bar with food on site. Hickory Oaks Campground 3485 Vinland Road (Mailing address: 555 Glendale Avenue) Oshkosh, WI 54901 Voice: (920) 235-6694 Fax: (920) 235-2610 E-mail: flyincamp@aol.com Description: Located 1.5 miles from the city of Oshkosh. Class 1 Fish Hatchery License. New modern toilet/shower facilities. Located off first exit north of lake butte des morts around the corner from the prison. About 10 minuite drive to airventure. Stayed here many times. Large pond for swimming boating fishing. No fishing license needed. Usually a row boat and pedal boat available. Grass strip on site. Owner has a Cub sometimes gives rides in the evening. Tell Bob I recommended it. ----- Original Message ----- From: brian jardine Sent: 4/24/2006 2:04:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead to Oshkosh Group, I am planning a cross-country trip (driving) from Utah to Broadhead, and then on to Air Adventure at Oshkosh. I am bringing my 3 young boys, 12, 9, and 5. I hope to give them a good dose of Piet exposure. Does anyone have any recommendations for camping at Broadhead, and campgrounds near Oshkosh? I have looked at the Air Adventure planning on their website, but not familiar with the area, I don't know which sites are better than others. I'm sure reservations fill up fast. Hopefully something with fishing close by, to entertain the boys in the evening. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks. Brian Clinton, UT ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:08 PM PST US From: "Catdesign" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" Don, How did you enlarge the hole in the backing plates to fit over the axel and the hubs? How did you mount them? Pictures? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" > > Hi Fred, > > I have 19" spoked wheels on mine. I use a 5" mechanical drum brake from > Kart World out of Cleveland, OH. The brakes are very simple and low > profile. They are cable actuated and are attached to hand levers under > the instument panel. The hand levers are just aftermarket motorcycle > handles from a local motorcycle shop. They are placed close enough > together that I can hold both of them at once for the run-up. They are > just enough to barely hold the run-up. Sometimes, by the time I finish > the run-up I've crept a foot or so. I can deal with that. The only other > time I use them is for taxiing. They seem to be okay for that. A liitle > planning ahead is a good idea too. > > Don Emch > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30982#30982 > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:15 PM PST US From: "Catdesign" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" Don, can you enlighten us on your tailwheel design? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca