Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Re: Interesting trim ()
2. 05:33 AM - pavement vs. grass (Michael D Cuy)
3. 05:41 AM - Interesting trim (Sayre, William G)
4. 06:38 AM - Re: pavement vs. grass (Joe Krzes)
5. 09:23 AM - Re: pavement vs. grass (Dick Navratil)
6. 12:28 PM - Re: Interesting trim (KMHeide)
7. 12:55 PM - Re: Interesting trim (Steve Glass)
8. 01:09 PM - Re: Interesting trim (Carl Vought)
9. 01:29 PM - Re: Interesting trim (walt evans)
10. 02:47 PM - Re: Interesting trim (Rcaprd@aol.com)
11. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Tailskid Tailwheel (walt evans)
12. 10:56 PM - Re: Tailskid Tailwheel (Catdesign)
13. 11:38 PM - Corvair Flyers (Rob Stapleton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Interesting trim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
You should see what happens when you get out!;-)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: May 3, 2006 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
I've been told you can do the same sticking your
arms out. :-)
And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
Clif
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of
pitch
> trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While
somewhere
> around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight.
If I
> let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I
don't
> think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> movement!
> Don Emch
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | pavement vs. grass |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Don-- I'd have to concur with Jack Phillips in that pavement landings are
somewhat more challenging in the
fact that you get faster response directionally. Nothing dramatic, but it
makes you concentrate more on being
in good alignment on touchdown. To me, using the right tire pressure for
pavement can make a difference in wether
I rebound into the air or if she 'sticks' but then again that factor is
based on how hard you hit as well:)
I had no real concerns as the straight axle gear leaves no room for wheel
castor and camber errors as does the kind of
gear you built. If your gear is true, and more importantly each wheel
tracking true to the other, you should find pavement
pretty much a non event.
Mike C.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Interesting trim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre@boeing.com>
If I let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I
leaned forward it slowly pitches down.
-------------------------------
Don,
Try holding your arms out. Both to a side to turn, both above to climb
and one down on each side of the cockpit to lower the nose. The
Pietenpol is the most fun plane!
Bill
Message 4
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| Subject: | pavement vs. grass |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Joe Krzes" <jkrzes@hotmail.com>
do not archive
I think the situation can be summed up (as a list member put it a few years
back)... "you have to spit out your gum".
>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: pavement vs. grass
>
>Don-- I'd have to concur with Jack Phillips in that pavement landings are
>somewhat more challenging in the
>
>fact that you get faster response directionally. Nothing dramatic, but it
>makes you concentrate more on being
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: pavement vs. grass |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
I'd like to add one item to Mike's post. I try to avoid the seams in the
runway if possible. I've landed on a couple where the joint in concrete has
caught on the tailwheel. Also I have found carrying 1100 rpm all the way
down makes a bounce less likely or a sudden flop onto the runway in the full
stall landing.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: pavement vs. grass
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Don-- I'd have to concur with Jack Phillips in that pavement landings are
> somewhat more challenging in the
>
> fact that you get faster response directionally. Nothing dramatic, but it
> makes you concentrate more on being
>
> in good alignment on touchdown. To me, using the right tire pressure
> for pavement can make a difference in wether
>
> I rebound into the air or if she 'sticks' but then again that factor is
> based on how hard you hit as well:)
>
> I had no real concerns as the straight axle gear leaves no room for wheel
> castor and camber errors as does the kind of
>
> gear you built. If your gear is true, and more importantly each wheel
> tracking true to the other, you should find pavement
>
> pretty much a non event.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
Clif,
The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of urine stored
inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical calculations, you can determine
the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid water to arrive at
a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from 6.6033 to determine the correct
amount of ballast within the bladder. In the sagittal plane you need to calculate
the arm for weight and balance to find a starting point of adjusted movement
of weight relative to center of gravity in the aircraft and the human
body. Then and only then can you get the true accurate number of forward weight
deflection within the cabin of a pilot who has to pee......
Ken
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson
I've been told you can do the same sticking your
arms out. :-)
And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
Clif
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch
> trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> movement!
> Don Emch
>
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Hi Ken
Perhaps you hit on something. Yachts are using active trim tanks usually
side to side to reduce heel. Perhaps you could install a small soda bottle
fore and aft with a a manual trim pump in the cockpit. Putting the tank as
far aft as possible would give you a good amount of moment. You could even
have a third port in the cockpit so you could have a little drink while
flying along. It could be a problem in the winter with freeze up but I'm
sure some suitable ducting could be worked out.
Could call it the wet trim system. Thinking more about it the weight
penalty is not good perhaps Helium ballons stuffed in each end with a
transfer.............................
Steve G
>From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Clif,
>
> The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of urine
>stored inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical calculations,
>you can determine the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid water
>to arrive at a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from 6.6033 to
>determine the correct amount of ballast within the bladder. In the sagittal
>plane you need to calculate the arm for weight and balance to find a
>starting point of adjusted movement of weight relative to center of gravity
>in the aircraft and the human body. Then and only then can you get the true
>accurate number of forward weight deflection within the cabin of a pilot
>who has to pee......
>
> Ken
>
>Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson
>
>I've been told you can do the same sticking your
>arms out. :-)
>
>And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
>As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
>needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
>destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
>
>How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
>
>Clif
>
>
> > Hi Guys...
> > I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> > Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of
>pitch
> > trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> > around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> > let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> > forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> > think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> > movement!
> > Don Emch
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo@knology.net>
I can think of a good anti-freeze you could put in the water.....Carl
Vought....Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass"
> <redsglass@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Ken
>
> Perhaps you hit on something. Yachts are using active trim tanks usually
> side to side to reduce heel. Perhaps you could install a small soda
> bottle fore and aft with a a manual trim pump in the cockpit. Putting the
> tank as far aft as possible would give you a good amount of moment. You
> could even have a third port in the cockpit so you could have a little
> drink while flying along. It could be a problem in the winter with freeze
> up but I'm sure some suitable ducting could be worked out.
>
> Could call it the wet trim system. Thinking more about it the weight
> penalty is not good perhaps Helium ballons stuffed in each end with a
> transfer.............................
>
> Steve G
>
>
>>From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Clif,
>>
>> The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of urine
>> stored inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical calculations,
>> you can determine the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid
>> water to arrive at a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from
>> 6.6033 to determine the correct amount of ballast within the bladder. In
>> the sagittal plane you need to calculate the arm for weight and balance
>> to find a starting point of adjusted movement of weight relative to
>> center of gravity in the aircraft and the human body. Then and only then
>> can you get the true accurate number of forward weight deflection within
>> the cabin of a pilot who has to pee......
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson
>>
>>I've been told you can do the same sticking your
>>arms out. :-)
>>
>>And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
>>As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
>>needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
>>destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
>>
>>How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
>>
>>Clif
>>
>>
>> > Hi Guys...
>> > I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
>> > Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of
>>pitch
>> > trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
>> > around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If
>> > I
>> > let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
>> > forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
>> > think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
>> > movement!
>> > Don Emch
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
Don,
I used to mess with the trim on a Cessna. Trim it perfectly, then lean
forard and put your hands over the inst. panel. Down you go. same with
leaning back in the seat with hands over head. Up you go.
Here's something that I've tried, and not too many had heard of it.....Trim
out a plane at a certain alt. Say 1000 ft. Now don't touch the trim, but
pull up and climb to 2000 ft. Let go of the stick/wheel, and it will
slightly nose down and slowly lose altitude. The rate of decent will slowly
diminish, and it will settle back exactly at 1000 ft. So the trim will be
different on any day for any density altitude.
Neat trick.
Also flew my old Fisher 404 from a nearby airport back to my home airport
(about 15 mi) hands off, just sticking my fingertips out each side of the
windshield, as needed, to turn and correct heading. Try it,, it's fun
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
>
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch
> trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> movement!
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32441#32441
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
In a message dated 5/3/2006 7:43:02 AM Central Standard Time,
william.g.sayre@boeing.com writes:
Try holding your arms out. Both to a side to turn, both above to climb
and one down on each side of the cockpit to lower the nose.
Yeah, but I fly in the Kansas wind & thermals...if I tried this method, it
would look like I was in the middle of a swarm of killer bees !! :)
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
Don,
Yeah, it seems that when you land on grass, it's both the grass and you
that interact for the landing. But on pavement, it's all yours.
Just go to the airport on some evening where there are no spectators.
Spectators ruin the concintration <sp>
I've found that when landing the Pietenpol, to give a little power (about
1000 rpm) at or before the time of the flare, so you don't get the drop.
I had to get over the fear of the end of the runway comming up. Thought
about it all the time, and that ruled the landing. but when I was aware of
it,,,every time I landed, I'd see what runway was left. There was always
plenty. So then I was forcing myself to not worry about the runway left, and
about the quality of the landing. Now at the flare, time slows down, and
with some power on, I feel, feel, feel, for the grass. they are alot better
this year.
I like the comment that the only difference between a grass landing and
pavement landing,,,,,is that on pavement, you have to spit out your gum
first.
Talked to the owner of a parachute jump school about this. I'm 58 so he
seemed to be a kid. But he owns a Cessna Caravan, Super Otter, and a
Cessna 182.
His advice was that you need 100 hours in a plane to be comfortable in it.
Good advice!
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailskid Tailwheel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
>
> I envy you there Chuck! It is a long step into the cockpit. Interesting
> what you said about the difference between grass and pavement. I haven't
> landed on pavement yet, but am thinking about it soon. There is a strip
> not too far away that has both. I thought about landing on the grass and
> taking off on the pavement to start with. Curious how those high pressure
> spoke wheels will do. Mike, Walt, Jack or anyone else running them have
> much to say about the difference between grass and pavement?
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32438#32438
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Catdesign" <catdesign@intergate.com>
Thanks a bunch Don
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailskid Tailwheel
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
>
> Hi Guys...
> This is my tailwheel that Chris was asking about. I thought I'd post a
> picture. It is basically just a wheel added to the plans skid. The wheel
> is a 4" unit from Wick's. The fork is welded up and has a vertical steel
> tube bushing into which an AN8 bolt is pressed (1/2" bolt). This is the
> vertical shaft of the fork. A welded up 'T' tops it off which is
> connected to the rudder cables. An AN3 bolt goes through the AN8 bolt in
> the fork and in the 'T' to lock everything together. The shaft of the
> fork fits into a bushed tube that is weled to the A-frame. Plates are
> welded top and bottom of that. The spring is from a fork tube from the
> front of a wrecked motorcycle. $2.00 from the local junkyard. It started
> out about 2' long and had to be cut down. The cables connect to the
> rudder cables under the seat with #10 electrical wire connectors. The
> tubes tend to want to twist when turning left or right so I plan to help
> that by welding a cross piece near where the tubes me!
> et the fuselage. It probably isn't the best idea out there, but seems to
> be working for now and is fairly light in weight.
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32199#32199
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0381_111.jpg
>
>
>
Message 13
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To all Corvair flyers:
This afternoon I visited an open house at a local FBO and float storage
business at Lake Hood here in Anchorage. I went specifically to find an
A&P
that had been identified as an EAA technical advisor who works there.
After asking him if he would be available to help me with my project he
said
"sometimes," and asked what kind of project I was working on? When I
told
him about the Pietenpol project, and that it came with a turbo-charged
Corvair engine, he immediately said, "I am not a fan of automotive
engines
in aircraft, those Pientenpol builders seem to like them, but then again
they are flying over farms and fields, and up here we don't have any of
those, so if your engine quits..My advice to you is to get a 0-200 or an
85
horse engine for $15-16,000 and forget about the Corvair.
My question is how many of you using Corvair engines have encountered
mechanical or carb ice problems while flying with this type of engine,
and
been forced to land as a result of either?
Don't worry, I am not easily intimidated, and will forge on despite this
type of blatant opinion.
Rob Stapleton
Birchwood, Alaska
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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