Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 05/09/06


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:49 AM - Pietenpol Glide Performance (Hayes, Mike)
     2. 04:15 AM - Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! ()
     3. 05:30 AM - Glide Performance (Michael D Cuy)
     4. 08:37 AM - Re: Covered wire wheels (KMHeide)
     5. 09:59 AM - Re: Covered wire wheels (Egan, John)
     6. 10:54 AM - Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification (Jim Ash)
     7. 11:17 AM - Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (D.Reid)
     8. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Don Emch)
     9. 02:38 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (Ben Charvet)
    10. 03:53 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (D.Reid)
    11. 04:36 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (Skip-Cinda Gadd)
    12. 04:57 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (Tom Bernie)
    13. 05:05 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (walt evans)
    14. 05:31 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com)
    15. 05:52 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (gcardinal)
    16. 09:58 PM - For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... (Glenn Thomas)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:49:27 AM PST US
    From: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes@denco.co.uk>
    Subject: Pietenpol Glide Performance
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes@denco.co.uk> Now steady on chaps, all this talk about bowling balls and bricks applies in my opinion only to the glide angle that an idling Pietenpol would achieve. In my experience (Continental A65 / Sensenich 72-42) the sink rate is not that bad, and certainly such that one can climb in reasonable lift from thermals, ridge and wave. You can't really then go anywhere without opening the throttle because of the poor glide angle, but you can certainly get that "Something for nothing" feeling that inspires a lot of glider pilots, and there is also a good chance of coming across soaring birds in most locations, which is indeed a fine thing. Mike Hayes G-BKVO This message and any associated files sent by Denco Limited are confidential, and intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the IT Helpdesk by telephone immediately on 01432 377368 (UK) or +(44) 1432 377 368 (international) or return it to us by e-mail quoting the name of the sender and the address. Please also be advised that you have received this email in error and that any disclosure and/or use of the information contained within this email or attachments is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Denco Limited, its divisions and/or subsidiaries, unless otherwise specifically stated. Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted. They may therefore be liable to be compromised. This is an inherent risk in relation to e-mail. Denco Holdings Limited its divisions subsidiaries and divisions of subsidiaries do not, to the extent permitted by law, accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any changes made to this e-mail after it has been sent by the original sender, any external compromises of security and/or breaches of confidentiality in relation to transmissions sent by e-mail. We cannot to the extent permitted by law accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any damage sustained as a result of any software viruses and it is therefore your responsibility to scan the attachments (if any) and carry out your own virus check before opening any attachments.


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:15:34 AM PST US
    Subject: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca> I just don't understand why anybody would want to cover up beautiful spoked wheels?????????????????????????? No not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: May 8, 2006 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net> Don, Can't get over how beautiful your plane is!! How did you cover the wheels? I like that look. Wonder if I can do that to my spoke wheels. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares > <pictures@matronics.com> > > > A new Email List Photo Share is available: > > Poster: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> > > Lists: Pietenpol-List > > Subject: Piet Preflight > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EmchAir@aol.com.05.07.2006/index.htm l > > > o Main Photo Share Index > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > o Submitting a Photo Share > > If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the > following information along with your email message and files: > > 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: > 2) Your Full Name: > 3) Your Email Address: > 4) One line Subject description: > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: > 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: > > Email the information above and your files and photos to: > > pictures@matronics.com > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:30:20 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: Glide Performance
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> Mike Hayes is right that you can get some thermal action in a Piet and on many, many occasions I have had to throttle back and push the stick forward to stop the ridiculous rate of climb when I hit thermals.........but with power at idle, you have drag city written all over a Pietenpol and the only thing that will glide worse is a biplane Jenny or old fashioned ultralight with cable braces and tubing everywhere. When the engine quits in a Pietenpol your circle of choices to land is very tight....and it drifts with the wind. Mike C.


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:37:53 AM PST US
    From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Covered wire wheels
    To add to this post, here is a web site that can create wheel covers for you along with building a wider wheel. They are builders and fliers of post war built aircraft. Scroll thru the site and you can see the finished product along with information to costs ect....I plan on using them for my wheels and metal hub cap covers. http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76 Ken Heide Faro, ND Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" Walt, In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky Gypsy) in Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one of those and that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite a few years before I actually started building but when I did and when I got to the wheels I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the tires on without messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few inches bigger in diameter than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a big 'washer' out of aluminum that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke ends. I cut little pie shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the back side of the washer. Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing the edges around the inside of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue a tape all the way around the rim to tie the two sides together. This probably doesn't really need to be done but can't hurt. Finish like any other f! abric surface. I put an inspection ring on the inside of both wheels. I leave it uncovered and placed it near the air valve. With your tires already on the rim, you could probably just let the air out and clamp the tire flat to get to the inside edge of the rim. Wouldn't have to deal with getting the tire on without damaging the finish. Tire change time though you'll have to deal with it. Mask the edges and use lots of soap and a little cussing. Hope you try it. Keeps from having to clean the spokes and you'll probably pick up 1 to 2 mph! Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33550#33550 ---------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:59:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Covered wire wheels
    From: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
    I've been on the fence whether to use Airdrome brand hubs because I believe= they use 1-1/4" axles where I thought the Piets called for 1-1/2". Was it Jack Phillips who cautioned the group on axle size and strength=3F My apologies if I'm incorrect with any of this. I think the Airdrome plane axles also slide an 18" sleeve inside the axle at each end to strengthen it= which may be great, and I have not yet calculated the difference in weight or bending strength. I would like to use these wheels too, but have not committed to anything yet due to the above information. I also wonder what= the weight of the Airdrome planes are compared to an Aircamper. Wheel Covers: I've visited the "Old Rhinebeck Airdrome" a number of times and I see many of the WW1 replicas there take a light sheet of aluminum, cu= t= it appropriately so it kind of rolls into a shallow cone shape to fit over= the outside of the wheels. The covers kind of fit loosely over the wheels and can be easily removed. Something to consider... You guys who fabric the wheels do a great job. Looking for thoughts on this subject (axles). John ________________________________ =46rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covered wire wheels To add to this post, here is a web site that can create wheel covers for yo= u= along with building a wider wheel. They are builders and fliers of post wa= r= built aircraft. Scroll thru the site and you can see the finished product along with information to costs ect....I plan on using them for my wheels and metal hub cap covers. http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp=3Fpage76 Ken Heide =46aro, ND Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" Walt, In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky Gypsy) in Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one o= =66= those and that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite= a few years before I actually started building but when I did and when I go= t= to the wheels I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the= tires on without messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few= inches bigger in diameter than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a bi= g= 'washer' out of aluminum that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke= ends. I cut little pie shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the= back side of the washer. Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing= the edges around the inside of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue a= tape all the way around the rim to tie the two sides together. This probably doesn't really need to be done but can't hurt. Finish like any other f! abric surface. I put an inspection ring on the inside of both wheels. I leave it uncovered and placed it near the air valve. With your tires alread= y= on the rim, you could probably ________________________________ starting at 1=A2/min. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/ev= This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contai= n= privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:54:09 AM PST US
    From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:17:15 AM PST US
    From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax@alltel.net>
    Subject: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    Hiya gang, Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. Comments? Thanks, Dave...Down in Florida


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:50:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> I guess it's just like Ford vs. Chevy, Cub vs. Champ, covered vs. uncovered. That's what makes Pietenpols so interesting. Each one has it's own uniqueness! :) Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33683#33683


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:38:29 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net> Welcome Dave, What does the GN-1 use for capstrips? I've heard that 1/4 x 1/4 is used on lots of other planes, and that the 1/2 x 1/4 specified on the Piet are a little overengineered. Others will tell you to stick to the plans. Where in Florida are you located? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl D.Reid wrote: > Hiya gang, > Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing > ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip > already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had > this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know > where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any > problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say > I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a > solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. > > Comments? > Thanks, > Dave...Down in Florida


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:53:31 PM PST US
    From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax@alltel.net>
    Subject: Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D.Reid" <dreidjax@alltel.net> Hiya Ben, Thanks for the welcome. I'm NW of Jacksonville near a little two horse town called Callahan. You're right. Most all airplanes I've seen plans for used 1/4" X 1/4" capstrip. Even with spruce 1/4" X 1/2" seems heavy duty and I intend to build mine with fir. Spars will be laminated fir as well and may be 3/4" thick with 1/8" ply plate doublers where needed to maintain proper diminsion associated structure. Still havnt decided for sure yet. I may extend the wings a couple of feet which will reduce wing loading a little and help on a hot humid day down here. Rib nose blocks will be 1/4" marine fir or Okume. Whatever I can find locally. As I mentioned .020 aluminum L/E and trailing edge will be aluminum as well. I just have a good bit of this stuff on hand already and figured I would use it. I'm not really a "purist" but safety is first and foremost and really like this forum. Seems like a great bunch of people that really know there "Piet's" Thanks for any comments or info. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net> > > Welcome Dave, > What does the GN-1 use for capstrips? I've heard that 1/4 x 1/4 is used > on lots of other planes, and that the 1/2 x 1/4 specified on the Piet are > a little overengineered. Others will tell you to stick to the plans. > Where in Florida are you located? > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > D.Reid wrote: > >> Hiya gang, >> Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing >> ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already >> ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I >> was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is >> going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using >> 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1 >> airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose >> block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. >> Comments? >> Thanks, >> Dave...Down in Florida > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:36:03 PM PST US
    From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    Dave, My Piet is not flying yet, so consider my advise accordingly. I would not reduce the size of the rib capstrip unless I had an aero engineer run the numbers first. Yes the 1/2X1/4 is larger than most wood truss type ribs, but the Piet and to some extent the GN1 wings are designed differently than other wood wings. I think the Piet rib is used to carry more of the loads than some other planes. Just my 2 cents. Skip, in West Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Reid Hiya gang, Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. Comments? Thanks, Dave...Down in Florida


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:57:57 PM PST US
    From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    Dave, I=92m building a GN-1. The plans call for 1/4 by =BC capstrips for 65 HP ' =BC by =BD for over 65 HP. Good Luck, Tom Bernie -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Reid Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) Hiya gang, Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. Comments? Thanks, Dave...Down in Florida


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:05:09 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    The data I had first rec'd on the mat'l required was,,,,,Over 65HP1/4x1/2 under 65HP1/4x1/4 walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Reid To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) Hiya gang, Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. Comments? Thanks, Dave...Down in Florida


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:31:54 PM PST US
    From: PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com
    Subject: Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    Dave, Welcome aboard; we can always use some additions to the Florida Piet 'herd'. I am on Tavares,FL; about 35 miles NW of Orlando and I built my bird of Doug Fir for all the structural stuff. Also used 3/4" laminated spars. I concurr with the theory that Bernard built 'hell for stout'. I made my longerons 15/16" vs 1" and if I were to do it over I believe I would go with 7/8". I don't think you are too far out to think about using 1/4" square cap strips. After all thats what Pitts and a lot of other planes have used. I'd go to 3/8" caps no problem. You could make sample test ribs, a 1/4" and a plans 1/2 " and do a static destructive load test just to get an idea of what the feasibility would be. I used to fly with the Navy Flying Club at NAS Jax and I used to take students over to the grass strip at Callahan frequently.. At Thomasville a few years back there was an interesting Piet from Callahan; it had an aluminum covered turtle deck. Regards, Lou Larsen another cracker GOB, (good ole boy) translated for the Yankees! Lou Larsen


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:52:54 PM PST US
    From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
    Using 1/4 X 1/4 instead of 1/4 X 1/2 capstrips will save a little over 2 1/2 pounds if using spruce and a little over 3 pounds if using douglas fir. I know weight savings is important but, personally, I would look elsewhere for weight savings. Additionally, some info says to use 1/4 X 1/4 if your hp is 65 or less. Other than the slipstream, I don't see a connection between hp and capstrip size. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Reid To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) Hiya gang, Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum. Comments? Thanks, Dave...Down in Florida


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:58:23 PM PST US
    Subject: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects...
    From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com> Before today I have never actually seen a completed Pietenpol. I emailed Walt Evans to see if I could take a look at his plane since I was driving out to New York City and he's in New Jersey. Being the nice guy that he is he extended an offer to meet me at his hangar. It was drizzly and WINDY and he came out and showed me around his plane. Can't say enough about what a nice job he's done. I also can't say what seeing the finished product means to somebody who just has a bundle of wood, T-88, a rib jig and a couple of ribs and an easle with plans resting on it. Wow! After talking for quite some time I thought we were wrapping up and he asked if I was interested in a ride. The wind had died down and conditions had improved. I didn't want to impose but at the same time I didn't want to pass up an opportunity like this. So I took him up on the offer. Getting into the passenger place helped me brush up on long lost jungle gym skills and then, there I was, looking at his passenger panel. I couldn't believe it was happening. He fired up the Continental, taxi'd out, and before I could say Holy $#*% we were in the air and climbing! Right then and there, it hit me. This is what it's all about. Definitely an experience that I'll never forget and a catalyst for my project. I knew it would be fun, I just didn't know how much. Like I told him, I can't remember how many times I said "Wow!" during the drive home. Thanks Walt!!!!! Nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel. This is one project that MUST get done. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33761#33761




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