Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Pietenpol Glide Performance (Hayes, Mike)
2. 04:15 AM - Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! ()
3. 05:30 AM - Glide Performance (Michael D Cuy)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: Covered wire wheels (KMHeide)
5. 09:59 AM - Re: Covered wire wheels (Egan, John)
6. 10:54 AM - Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification (Jim Ash)
7. 11:17 AM - Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (D.Reid)
8. 01:50 PM - Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Don Emch)
9. 02:38 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (Ben Charvet)
10. 03:53 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (D.Reid)
11. 04:36 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (Skip-Cinda Gadd)
12. 04:57 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (Tom Bernie)
13. 05:05 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (walt evans)
14. 05:31 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com)
15. 05:52 PM - Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) (gcardinal)
16. 09:58 PM - For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... (Glenn Thomas)
Message 1
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Subject: | Pietenpol Glide Performance |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes@denco.co.uk>
Now steady on chaps, all this talk about bowling balls and bricks applies in
my opinion only to the glide angle that an idling Pietenpol would achieve.
In my experience (Continental A65 / Sensenich 72-42) the sink rate is not
that bad, and certainly such that one can climb in reasonable lift from
thermals, ridge and wave. You can't really then go anywhere without opening
the throttle because of the poor glide angle, but you can certainly get that
"Something for nothing" feeling that inspires a lot of glider pilots, and
there is also a good chance of coming across soaring birds in most
locations, which is indeed a fine thing.
Mike Hayes
G-BKVO
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Message 2
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Subject: | [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
I just don't understand why anybody would want to cover up beautiful
spoked wheels??????????????????????????
No not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: May 8, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
Don,
Can't get over how beautiful your plane is!!
How did you cover the wheels? I like that look. Wonder if I can do
that to
my spoke wheels.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
> <pictures@matronics.com>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>
>
> Lists: Pietenpol-List
>
> Subject: Piet Preflight
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EmchAir@aol.com.05.07.2006/index.htm
l
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
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> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Glide Performance |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Mike Hayes is right that you can get some thermal action in a Piet and on
many, many occasions I have
had to throttle back and push the stick forward to stop the ridiculous rate
of climb when I hit thermals.........but
with power at idle, you have drag city written all over a Pietenpol and the
only thing that will glide worse is
a biplane Jenny or old fashioned ultralight with cable braces and tubing
everywhere.
When the engine quits in a Pietenpol your circle of choices to land is very
tight....and it drifts with the wind.
Mike C.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Covered wire wheels |
To add to this post, here is a web site that can create wheel covers for you along
with building a wider wheel. They are builders and fliers of post war built
aircraft. Scroll thru the site and you can see the finished product along with
information to costs ect....I plan on using them for my wheels and metal hub
cap covers.
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76
Ken Heide
Faro, ND
Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch"
Walt,
In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky Gypsy) in
Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one of those and
that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite a few years before
I actually started building but when I did and when I got to the wheels
I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the tires on without
messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few inches bigger in diameter
than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a big 'washer' out of aluminum
that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke ends. I cut little pie
shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the back side of the washer.
Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing the edges around the inside
of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue a tape all the way around the
rim to tie the two sides together. This probably doesn't really need to be done
but can't hurt. Finish like any other f!
abric surface. I put an inspection ring on the inside of both wheels. I leave it
uncovered and placed it near the air valve. With your tires already on the rim,
you could probably just let the air out and clamp the tire flat to get to
the inside edge of the rim. Wouldn't have to deal with getting the tire on without
damaging the finish. Tire change time though you'll have to deal with it.
Mask the edges and use lots of soap and a little cussing.
Hope you try it. Keeps from having to clean the spokes and you'll probably pick
up 1 to 2 mph!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33550#33550
---------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | Covered wire wheels |
I've been on the fence whether to use Airdrome brand hubs because I believe=
they use 1-1/4" axles where I thought the Piets called for 1-1/2". Was it
Jack Phillips who cautioned the group on axle size and strength=3F My
apologies if I'm incorrect with any of this. I think the Airdrome plane
axles also slide an 18" sleeve inside the axle at each end to strengthen it=
which may be great, and I have not yet calculated the difference in weight
or bending strength. I would like to use these wheels too, but have not
committed to anything yet due to the above information. I also wonder what=
the weight of the Airdrome planes are compared to an Aircamper.
Wheel Covers: I've visited the "Old Rhinebeck Airdrome" a number of times
and I see many of the WW1 replicas there take a light sheet of aluminum, cu=
t=
it appropriately so it kind of rolls into a shallow cone shape to fit over=
the outside of the wheels. The covers kind of fit loosely over the wheels
and can be easily removed. Something to consider... You guys who fabric
the wheels do a great job.
Looking for thoughts on this subject (axles).
John
________________________________
=46rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covered wire wheels
To add to this post, here is a web site that can create wheel covers for yo=
u=
along with building a wider wheel. They are builders and fliers of post wa=
r=
built aircraft. Scroll thru the site and you can see the finished product
along with information to costs ect....I plan on using them for my wheels
and metal hub cap covers.
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp=3Fpage76
Ken Heide
=46aro, ND
Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch"
Walt,
In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky
Gypsy) in Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one o=
=66=
those and that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite=
a few years before I actually started building but when I did and when I go=
t=
to the wheels I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the=
tires on without messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few=
inches bigger in diameter than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a bi=
g=
'washer' out of aluminum that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke=
ends. I cut little pie shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the=
back side of the washer. Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing=
the edges around the inside of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue
a=
tape all the way around the rim to tie the two sides together. This
probably doesn't really need to be done but can't hurt. Finish like any
other f!
abric surface. I put an inspection ring on the inside of both wheels. I
leave it uncovered and placed it near the air valve. With your tires alread=
y=
on the rim, you could probably
________________________________
starting at 1=A2/min.
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This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contai=
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inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any
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Message 6
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Subject: | Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
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Message 7
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Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
I guess it's just like Ford vs. Chevy, Cub vs. Champ, covered vs. uncovered. That's
what makes Pietenpols so interesting. Each one has it's own uniqueness!
:)
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33683#33683
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Welcome Dave,
What does the GN-1 use for capstrips? I've heard that 1/4 x 1/4 is used
on lots of other planes, and that the 1/2 x 1/4 specified on the Piet
are a little overengineered. Others will tell you to stick to the
plans. Where in Florida are you located?
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
D.Reid wrote:
> Hiya gang,
> Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
> ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
> already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
> this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
> where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any
> problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say
> I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a
> solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
>
> Comments?
> Thanks,
> Dave...Down in Florida
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "D.Reid" <dreidjax@alltel.net>
Hiya Ben,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm NW of Jacksonville near a little two horse town
called Callahan.
You're right. Most all airplanes I've seen plans for used 1/4" X 1/4"
capstrip. Even with spruce 1/4" X 1/2" seems heavy duty and I intend to
build mine with fir. Spars will be laminated fir as well and may be 3/4"
thick with 1/8" ply plate doublers where needed to maintain proper diminsion
associated structure. Still havnt decided for sure yet.
I may extend the wings a couple of feet which will reduce wing loading a
little and help on a hot humid day down here.
Rib nose blocks will be 1/4" marine fir or Okume. Whatever I can find
locally. As I mentioned .020 aluminum L/E and trailing edge will be aluminum
as well.
I just have a good bit of this stuff on hand already and figured I would use
it. I'm not really a "purist" but safety is first and foremost and really
like this forum. Seems like a great bunch of people that really know there
"Piet's"
Thanks for any comments or info.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>
> Welcome Dave,
> What does the GN-1 use for capstrips? I've heard that 1/4 x 1/4 is used
> on lots of other planes, and that the 1/2 x 1/4 specified on the Piet are
> a little overengineered. Others will tell you to stick to the plans.
> Where in Florida are you located?
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
> D.Reid wrote:
>
>> Hiya gang,
>> Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
>> ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already
>> ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I
>> was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is
>> going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using
>> 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1
>> airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose
>> block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
>> Comments?
>> Thanks,
>> Dave...Down in Florida
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
My Piet is not flying yet, so consider my advise accordingly. I would not reduce
the size of the rib capstrip unless I had an aero engineer run the numbers first.
Yes the 1/2X1/4 is larger than most wood truss type ribs, but the Piet and
to some extent the GN1 wings are designed differently than other wood wings.
I think the Piet rib is used to carry more of the loads than some other planes.
Just my 2 cents.
Skip, in West Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and
I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready
to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the
shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think.
Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I
should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs
and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
Message 12
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Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
I=92m building a GN-1. The plans call for 1/4 by =BC capstrips for 65
HP '
=BC by =BD for over 65 HP.
Good Luck,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Reid
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
The data I had first rec'd on the mat'l required was,,,,,Over
65HP1/4x1/2 under 65HP1/4x1/4
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
Welcome aboard; we can always use some additions to the Florida Piet 'herd'.
I am on Tavares,FL; about 35 miles NW of Orlando and I built my bird of Doug
Fir for all the structural stuff. Also used 3/4" laminated spars.
I concurr with the theory that Bernard built 'hell for stout'. I made my
longerons 15/16" vs 1" and if I were to do it over I believe I would go with
7/8". I don't think you are too far out to think about using 1/4" square cap
strips. After all thats what Pitts and a lot of other planes have used. I'd go
to 3/8" caps no problem. You could make sample test ribs, a 1/4" and a plans
1/2 " and do a static destructive load test just to get an idea of what the
feasibility would be.
I used to fly with the Navy Flying Club at NAS Jax and I used to take
students over to the grass strip at Callahan frequently.. At Thomasville a few
years
back there was an interesting Piet from Callahan; it had an aluminum covered
turtle deck.
Regards,
Lou Larsen
another cracker GOB, (good ole boy) translated for the Yankees!
Lou Larsen
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Using 1/4 X 1/4 instead of 1/4 X 1/2 capstrips will save a little over 2
1/2 pounds if using spruce and a little over 3 pounds if using douglas
fir.
I know weight savings is important but, personally, I would look
elsewhere for weight savings.
Additionally, some info says to use 1/4 X 1/4 if your hp is 65 or less.
Other than the slipstream, I don't see a connection between hp and
capstrip size.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
Message 16
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Subject: | For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
Before today I have never actually seen a completed Pietenpol. I emailed Walt
Evans to see if I could take a look at his plane since I was driving out to New
York City and he's in New Jersey. Being the nice guy that he is he extended
an offer to meet me at his hangar. It was drizzly and WINDY and he came out
and showed me around his plane. Can't say enough about what a nice job he's done.
I also can't say what seeing the finished product means to somebody who
just has a bundle of wood, T-88, a rib jig and a couple of ribs and an easle with
plans resting on it. Wow!
After talking for quite some time I thought we were wrapping up and he asked if
I was interested in a ride. The wind had died down and conditions had improved.
I didn't want to impose but at the same time I didn't want to pass up an
opportunity like this. So I took him up on the offer. Getting into the passenger
place helped me brush up on long lost jungle gym skills and then, there I
was, looking at his passenger panel. I couldn't believe it was happening. He
fired up the Continental, taxi'd out, and before I could say Holy $#*% we were
in the air and climbing!
Right then and there, it hit me. This is what it's all about. Definitely an experience
that I'll never forget and a catalyst for my project. I knew it would
be fun, I just didn't know how much. Like I told him, I can't remember how
many times I said "Wow!" during the drive home.
Thanks Walt!!!!!
Nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel. This is one project that MUST get
done.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
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