---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/11/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:31 AM - Re: I D (Gene Beenenga) 2. 05:44 AM - Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification (Gene Beenenga) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: I D () 4. 05:55 AM - More to I D (Isablcorky@aol.com) 5. 08:35 AM - Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification (Rick Holland) 6. 10:43 AM - Re: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... (Bill Church) 7. 02:24 PM - Rate of Climb (Don Emch) 8. 02:58 PM - Magneto hunt (Carl Vought) 9. 03:03 PM - Re: Rate of Climb (Rcaprd@aol.com) 10. 03:23 PM - Re: Rate of Climb (Steve Ruse) 11. 06:52 PM - Re: Rate of Climb (Dick Navratil) 12. 07:36 PM - Re: Rate of Climb (Mark Blackwell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:47 AM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga thanks again, Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Mike King >Sent: May 11, 2006 12:09 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > >It is a 1940 A-80 Continental. > >Mike King >77MK >GN-1 >Dallas, Texas > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Beenenga > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:53 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga > > thanks Mike, sorry, but either I forgot or maybe you didn't say, but what's your engine again? Gene > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Mike King > >Sent: May 10, 2006 10:44 AM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > >Gene, > > > >745 pounds. Good luck on your project. > > > > > >Mike > >GN-1 > >77MK > >Dallas > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gene Beenenga > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:50 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga > > Mike King, > > What does you GN-1 weight in at? I am about 5/8 finished with a GN. > > Ken > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike King > > Sent: May 7, 2006 10:17 PM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > Thought so Dick. It looked exactly like mine but I had to stay > > here in the Lone Star State that weekend. > > > > Appreciate it. > > > > Mike King > > GN-1 > > 77MK > > Dallas > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dick Navratil > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 9:25 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > That looks like a Jim Markle truck. > > Dick N > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mike King > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:19 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > Who's pick up truck from Texas? It is in the background of the pic. > > > > > > > > Mike King > > 77MK > > Dallas, Texas > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: gcardinal > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:14 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > The gentleman's name is Bruce McCutcheon. > > > > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Isablcorky@aol.com > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:12 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > Pieters, > > While cleaning files etc I happened on a photo of some yankee dude with his arms draped around my bride at Brodhead in 2004. Can anyone I D this Pieter? > > The groom > > > > Do Not Archive > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:52 AM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga Mike, hear! hear! you put it all down very well, throughly and accurately, It would be a honor to be considered a part of that small (but growing) group of Corvair powered aircraft advocates. Mean Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Mike Whaley >Sent: May 10, 2006 9:38 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" > >I agree! > >The Internet has only been around for 14 years now. Postal letters have been >around for hundreds of years. Although many folks tout the so-called >advantages of email and websites, they simply don't have the track record >that serious communicators demand. In fact, I knew a guy who got the >Internet and joined an email list and within a month, he started to get >messages he didn't like. He sold his computer, and has been happily using >the US Postal Service ever since. You're free to do what you will, but I >don't want to be a guinea pig in some techno-geek's big worldwide social >experiment. > >Seriously, this discussion has been annoying me a bit to watch, though it's >nothing new. I do appreciate Jim publicly clarifying that he wasn't trying >to malign William, which is more than usually happens. But some perspective >is in order here. > >Obviously, nobody's forcing anyone to use an engine they aren't comfortable >with. I'm personally sold on the Corvair, as I've come to know William and >the Hangar gang well enough that I have faith that they are honest and >straightforward in their dealings and that they are right when they say that >I am capable, with their help, of building a satisfactory Corvair-based >aircraft engine for my personal requirements. I have heard them tell people >both what this motor both can, and cannot, do, and if anything I've seen >them consistently UNDER-sell the capabilities of the Corvair rather than >OVER-state it to try to sell products. In my experience, they've never, ever >encouraged folks to do anything blindly just "because they said so"... they >have always been willing and able to back up their recommendations with >sound reasoning. Most importantly, this is most often based on significant >amounts of actual flight experience, not theoretical calculations or single >tests as some other folks will use to "prove" their products. If they only >have one or two data points, or none, they will make sure you know that >fact. They also have consistently encouraged people to learn and understand >for themselves WHY they recommend to do something, or not. > >In my opinion, anyone who says to do something "because William says so" is >missing the point somewhat, but they generally do so because they have found >that he has actually earned the right to be considered an authority on the >subject. This is because he really has tried most of the ideas that people >have asked about, and refined the good ones so that anyone could use them. > >While I've heard folks criticize Corvairs before and even pull out some >examples to "prove" their unworthiness, they never seem to mention the >thousands of failures of Lycomings, Continentals, Pratt & Whitneys, etc. >installed by "qualified" folks for comparison. 98% of the "examples" are >things heard from friends of friends, etc. From the folks I've personally >talked to, emailed, and read about who have actually BUILT their own >Corvairs and can thus speak with some authority on the matter, it would seem >that nearly everyone who has followed William's advice has ended up quite >satisfied, if not extremely happy, with their Corvair installation. Most of >the occasional problems I've heard of have been caused by things that >William has specifically and publicly warned against doing, or happened >before he even started his research on the subject. In short, folks who >follow WW's advice tend to have a high chance of success with their Corvair >engines. > >I don't "deify" William or anyone else, nor do I have any personal stake in >this discussion other than I consider the Hangar Gang to be friends, who >happen to be "the" experts on the engine I will build in the (hopefully >near) future. However, I can honestly say that the Corvair Hangar Gang, to a >person, set an excellent example of honesty, enthusiasm, helpfulness, and >fun that I wish was present in everyone in aviation. This seems to have >rubbed off on quite a few others (or perhaps it just attracts like-minded >souls) throughout the homebuilt community, who then share their enthusiasm. >I don't know why, but this seemingly attracts the occasional ire of a few >folks who'd rather complain about a subject they rarely seem to have any >first-hand knowledge of. I'm no engine expert myself, but if you ask me, >even if you don't choose to fly a Corvair yourself, you should have a >healthy dose of respect and appreciation for the many positive contributions >that the Corvair folks have made towards furthering recreational aviation. >We need a lot more folks like them in the aviation world. > >BTW, most homebuilt companies now require a signed legal release before >selling plans or products. This is simply a factor of today's out of control >legal system, NOT a lack of faith in their own products. It isn't the plans >purchaser they are worried about, but their survivors's lawyers. It doesn't >matter whether the accident really had anything to do with the manufacturer >or not. > >-Mike > >Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net >Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association >http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ > >> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash >> > Unfortunately, that's a rather fallacious argument. By history, I mean >> > real hours spent working in the air, not calendar years since someone >> > first tried it. >> > >> > Jim Ash >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Rick Holland >> > Sent: May 10, 2006 8:13 AM >> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & >clarification >> > >> > Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine >> > needed a longer track record than that to be considered safe for >> > an experimental nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or >> > Corvair engines, only the dinosaurs. >> > >> > Rick H. >> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I D From: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: For any of you guys who are near Ontario Canada Ottawa;we are having a flyin on June 11th at Kars/Redeau Valley Air Park N45 06 W75 38 3s 14 degrees W UTC-5(4) elevation 286' A5000 A5002 F-21 Rwy 08/26 It's a lunch thing with burgers etc. for sale and we hope to have some old cars(antique) on hand.See you there.I'm the one cooking your burger so be nice OK! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Beenenga Sent: May 11, 2006 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga thanks again, Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Mike King >Sent: May 11, 2006 12:09 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > >It is a 1940 A-80 Continental. > >Mike King >77MK >GN-1 >Dallas, Texas > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene Beenenga > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:53 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga > > thanks Mike, sorry, but either I forgot or maybe you didn't say, but what's your engine again? Gene > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Mike King > >Sent: May 10, 2006 10:44 AM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > >Gene, > > > >745 pounds. Good luck on your project. > > > > > >Mike > >GN-1 > >77MK > >Dallas > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gene Beenenga > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:50 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga > > Mike King, > > What does you GN-1 weight in at? I am about 5/8 finished with a GN. > > Ken > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike King > > Sent: May 7, 2006 10:17 PM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > Thought so Dick. It looked exactly like mine but I had to stay > > here in the Lone Star State that weekend. > > > > Appreciate it. > > > > Mike King > > GN-1 > > 77MK > > Dallas > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dick Navratil > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 9:25 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > That looks like a Jim Markle truck. > > Dick N > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mike King > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:19 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > Who's pick up truck from Texas? It is in the background of the pic. > > > > > > > > Mike King > > 77MK > > Dallas, Texas > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: gcardinal > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:14 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > The gentleman's name is Bruce McCutcheon. > > > > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Isablcorky@aol.com > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:12 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I D > > > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > Pieters, > > While cleaning files etc I happened on a photo of some yankee dude with his arms draped around my bride at Brodhead in 2004. Can anyone I D this Pieter? > > The groom > > > > Do Not Archive > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:41 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: More to I D Pieters, More Brodhead 2004 folks to I D from my Piet file clearance. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:01 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification Yes and I have heard that the *Brontosaurus *was very reliable. Fred Fliintstone swore by them at the gravel pit. do not archive On 5/10/06, harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: > > Now there ya go,ya learn something every day.I had no idea that dinosaur= s > used engines.I guess when ya think about it ,they needed somthin to move > those big bodies around eh! > > > Do not archive > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* May 10, 2006 8:13 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification > > > Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine needed > a longer track record than that to be considered safe for an experimental > nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or Corvair engines, only the > dinosaurs. > > Rick H. > > On 5/9/06, *Jim Ash* wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash > > I owe this list, and William Wynne specifically, an apology. The comments > I made in my email to this group on 4 May were misconstrued as an attack on > William and his work. This was not my intent, and for this misunderstandi= ng > I sincerely apologize. > > My intent was to impress the point that Corvair engines do not have a lon= g > and established history in aircraft, and that in using one in your own > airplane you absolutely need to understand everything about what you've d= one > with it, and why, in your specific set of circumstances. This also includ= es > understanding the risks involved in light of the lack of history mentione= d > above. > > Jim Ash > > target"_blank" onclick"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List k"return > top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com lank" > onclick"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... From: "Bill Church" Walt, Just looking through your photos and was wondering what the "ARC" logo on the side of your plane was. Looks "old-timey". Bill C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb From: "Don Emch" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" Hi Guys, For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb. Thanks, Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34118#34118 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:08 PM PST US From: "Carl Vought" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto hunt I bought one of Ken Perkin's Model-A sidemounts for a magneto drive. Because the mag mounts on the BACHSIDE of the cam gear, next to the carb, it rotates in the opposite direction than most mags do. To use this mount as Ken intended, I need to find a servicable 4330RH which fits a Cont A65. If anyone out there has one, I sure wish you'd contact me. My phone number is 256/883-9869....Thank you very much...Carl Vought...Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:20 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time, EmchAir@aol.com writes: Hi Guys, For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb. Thanks, Don Emch I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about 50 mph, and live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs, solo, with 20 gal full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field, turning close to 2000 rpm. I suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM, and is never above 300 FPM. My ROC has improved a little bit, since I reworked my prop, and now I can now get full rated rpm (2300 rpm), in level flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and the leading edge of the wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the bugs wipe off easier !! Chuck G. NX770CG going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:51 PM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Ruse My plane is just under 900lbs loaded as you described, and with my A-75 I see around 400fpm at ~2,375RPM (full throttle). Probably closer to 200fpm with a 150lb passenger...that is a little scary to me. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Rcaprd@aol.com: > In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time, > EmchAir@aol.com writes: > Hi Guys, > For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following > conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation > 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this > condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb. > Thanks, > Don Emch > I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about 50 mph, and > live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs, solo, with 20 gal > full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field, turning close to > 2000 rpm. I > suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM, and is never above 300 FPM. My ROC > has improved a little bit, since I reworked my prop, and now I can > now get full > rated rpm (2300 rpm), in level flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and > the leading edge of the wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the > bugs wipe off easier !! > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !! > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:54 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb I'm right in there with Chuck. 18.9 gal and 200 lbs of me puts me at 990 lb. Field at 900 ft. Something arount 300 fpm. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time, EmchAir@aol.com writes: Hi Guys, For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb. Thanks, Don Emch I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about 50 mph,and live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs, solo, with 20 gal full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field, turning close to 2000 rpm. I suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM, and is never above 300 FPM. My ROC has improved a little bit, since I reworked my prop, and now I can now get full rated rpm (2300 rpm), in level flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and the leading edge of the wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the bugs wipe off easier !! Chuck G. NX770CG going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:20 PM PST US From: "Mark Blackwell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" The other critical piece of information for comparison is what type of prop you have on the airplane. Might not be the engine at all but you might need a different prop to get the most out of the airplane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" > > Hi Guys, > For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these > following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? > Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around > 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect > for climb. > Thanks, > Don Emch > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34118#34118 > > >