---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/13/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:04 AM - Re: Re: Cylinders and CG (pietflyr) 2. 10:14 AM - Members in Alaska (gcardinal) 3. 10:37 AM - Re: Members in Alaska (Gordon Bowen) 4. 10:45 AM - Re: Members in Alaska (Wizzard187@aol.com) 5. 01:03 PM - Re: Members in Alaska (Gordon Bowen) 6. 01:09 PM - Pietenpol on Barnstormers (Runnels County, Texas) 7. 04:32 PM - Wing inspection rings (Rick Holland) 8. 05:33 PM - Re: Wing inspection rings (walt evans) 9. 06:32 PM - Re: Wing inspection rings / cable guides (Rcaprd@aol.com) 10. 06:43 PM - Met Pat Green today. Hilliard, BEAUTIFUL Piet! (D.Reid) 11. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Cylinders and CG (Rcaprd@aol.com) 12. 07:54 PM - To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? (Steve Glass) 13. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Cylinders and CG (Nick Harris) 14. 09:17 PM - Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Re: Cylinders and CG (Runnels County, Texas) 15. 09:26 PM - Re: To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? (Don Emch) 16. 09:39 PM - Re: To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? (Dick Navratil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:31 AM PST US From: "pietflyr" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG When I built my A65, my cylinders were worn to the limits. I looked into having them chromed and rebuilt. Cost was $550 per cylinder. Then I looked at Superior's Millenium cylinders which were $800 per cylinder, but you got new pistons, new rings, new valves, new valve springs, new valve seats, new rocker shafts and new piston pins. With the rebuild you have the questionable durability of the chrome, plus everything is still 60+ years old. I bought the Millemium cylinders. An added benefit was the increased accuracy of their casting process for the pistons. I weighed all reciprocating components to get the engine mass balanced as well as possible. All four of the new pistons were within 1 gram of each other. The original pistons varied by as much as 10 grams. The engine runs extremely smoothly. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Blackwell Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:39 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG Chroming was a way to go for a while, but it seemed to have some problems. I would check with Superior Aircraft as they have cylinders for nearly every engine that was ever built. They would probably overhaul yours of have an exchange set waiting to ship to you. The worst engine problem I ever experienced was due to a broken rocker box in a Cont 0 200 (Guys trust me they don't run well on 2 cylinders, but it ran) and it was replaced with a Superior cylinder. That section had been greatly beefed up and was much stronger than what came from the factory. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wizzard187@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG Pieters, Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders. Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new ones are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the best and what are the cost. Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how does it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes. Ken in rainy Iowa ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:04 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Members in Alaska If there are any members in Alaska please contact me off list. Thanks, Greg Cardinal gcardinal@mn.rr.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:32 AM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Cc: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Members in Alaska Greg, As a proud Alaskan, think the list should know there's at least two of us in AK basking in the glory. Where it's always 70 and sunny. You southern tourist need to ignore the high cost of gasoline and come on up!!!!!!!!!!, we need the revenue. Gordon Bowen Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Members in Alaska If there are any members in Alaska please contact me off list. Thanks, Greg Cardinal gcardinal@mn.rr.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:20 AM PST US From: Wizzard187@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Members in Alaska lPieters, Can you believe, a good friend is heading for Homer in his 75 hp Aircoupe this week from Eastern Iowa. He should add a little to the economy. Ken Conrad ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:13 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Members in Alaska Ken, Tell your Aircouper buddy to give me a call when he arrives Homer at 907-235-4882, same goes for anyone else on list coming to fatten up the economy. Flight up the ALCAN will be an exciting trip for him, he may want to get the DVD's/VHS from Air Spruce regarding the trip, "Flying the Alaskan Hwy", trip done in a C-182. Weather around Ft Nelson BC always mucho dicey, only area where actually doing narrow mountain valley flying at altitude ca. 6000'. Also GREG Cardinal, tried the email address you posted earlier for contacting off-list but got bounced. Gordon Bowen Homer AK gbowen@ptialaska.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Wizzard187@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Members in Alaska lPieters, Can you believe, a good friend is heading for Homer in his 75 hp Aircoupe this week from Eastern Iowa. He should add a little to the economy. Ken Conrad ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:22 PM PST US From: "Runnels County, Texas" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol on Barnstormers I found this ad on Barnstormers and was curious if anybody is familiar with this Aircamper? $14,500 . AVAILABLE FOR SALE . Beautifully built Pietenpol Aircamper, completed in 2004 by extremely experienced builder(s). Only 43 hrs. on Continental A-65 SMHO. Unique woodwork and leather give this aircraft the look and feel of a classic mahogany boat. The fabric is perfect as is the paint of overall white with dark green accents. Fuel burn is 4.5 gph with 17 gal. fuel tank. Empty weight is 617 lbs. with gross weight of 1040 lbs. so it meets the requirements for the sport pilot. It truely is a beautiful and fun little aircraft to fly. Aircraft is located in Thomasville, Ga. . Contact Dan Zappini - located Seminole, FL USA . Telephone: 727-644-3558 . Posted April 11, 2006 . Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser . Recommend This Ad to a Friend . Send a Message I might invest in an airline ticket to look at this, unless someone has a good reason for me to spend my mulah on something else. Thanks, Sterling ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:03 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing inspection rings Guys Question about the 1/4" ply inspection plate shown on the wing plans. Is this needed? Can't I just put an inspection ring on the fabric at that position when I cover the wing? Also it specifies a 4 1/2" hole while inspection rings have a 3 1/2" ID which allow the standard inspection plate= s to snap into them. Any guidance would be appreciated. Rick H -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:38 PM PST US From: "walt evans" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing inspection rings Rick, Yeah, I didn't do the ply inspection thing. Just did the normal inspection covers, Worked great. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing inspection rings Guys Question about the 1/4" ply inspection plate shown on the wing plans. Is this needed? Can't I just put an inspection ring on the fabric at that position when I cover the wing? Also it specifies a 4 1/2" hole while inspection rings have a 3 1/2" ID which allow the standard inspection plates to snap into them. Any guidance would be appreciated. Rick H -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:25 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing inspection rings / cable guides In a message dated 5/13/2006 6:33:27 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Guys Question about the 1/4" ply inspection plate shown on the wing plans. Is this needed? Can't I just put an inspection ring on the fabric at that position when I cover the wing? Also it specifies a 4 1/2" hole while inspection rings have a 3 1/2" ID which allow the standard inspection plates to snap into them. Any guidance would be appreciated. Rick H Rick, I glued the 1/4" plywood to the spar in that area, and made a recessed area for a round clear Lexan cover, that has 8 recessed screws to retain the cover, that way I was able to use the Lexan (not plexi-glass) for the cable fairlead as it passes through the clear cover. I also used this method in the center section, but there is no cables passing through it in the center section. The way the plans are drawn (Drawing No. 4), there is no accommodation to keep the cable from stepping out of the pulley on the leg pointing toward the aileron control horn. There Always Must be something to keep the cable from jumping, or stepping, out of the pulley, on each leg. It has to be close to, but not touching, the cable. On the leg pointing toward the center section, the bracket itself keeps the cable in the pulley. This has worked well for me, and if I were to do it again, I would do it the same way. You can clearly see how it works on this page of my web site: http://nx770cg.com/Wing.html Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:58 PM PST US From: "D.Reid" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Met Pat Green today. Hilliard, BEAUTIFUL Piet! There was a flyin at Hilliard Airpark today. I met Pat Green and got a close look at his Piet with corvair engine. Beautiful airplane. He has letters from B.H.P. as to how they colaborated to adapt the corvair engine. Pat finished his in 1968!...still going strong. Also talked with Warren Simpson, another Piet owner/flyer. He was very helpful with how he did things on his plane. Beautiful Piet as well...with welded steel tube fuse and T.F.....A-65...very nice Piet! Setting a talking with the two of them for a few hours has me really enthused to work on my project. They were both VERY friendly and helpful. Ready to get out to the shop... Dave...Down in Florida. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:46 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG In a message dated 5/12/2006 8:35:02 PM Central Standard Time, Wizzard187@aol.com writes: Pieters, Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders. Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new ones are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the best and what are the cost. Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how does it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes. Ken in rainy Iowa Ken, I had my cylinders chromed at : Aircraft Cylinders of America Tulsa, Oklahoma 918-582-1785 The actual chrome process cost only $125 per cylinder, however, there is many other costs associated with rebuilding the four cylinders, such as clean & inspect, overhaul & certify, new valves, guides, springs, seats, keepers, studs, bushings, and leak tests. My total bill for them came to a little over $1800. Advantages of chrome, is you can bring the cylinder bore back to standard bore, and if they claim that if the engine sits idle for extended periods, the cylinders will Not rust. Chrome cylinders are identified by the orange paint on the exterior of the base of the cylinders. Chuck G. NX770CG p.s. I saved about 7 pages of discussion of Continental A65 engine rebuilding, from Jan. '03, I could send you in e-mail direct...if you wish me to. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:19 PM PST US From: "Steve Glass" Subject: Pietenpol-List: To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass" Hi Everybody. Next Monday I am driving from Ontario Oregon to Manitowoc Wi and then on to Jonesport Maine. If I went to Broadhead is it possible to see any Pietenpols next week. Not sure if there are any there full tiime or if they are in locked hangers. As I really have a bug to build one I would love to see one in the flesh. Any guidance as to where to I could see one would be welcome. Best regards Steve G. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:48 PM PST US From: "Nick Harris" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG Chuck G. I would be interested in that email also. I just bought a torn apart a65. Everything looks good but the cylinders. Nick Harris nharris25@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG In a message dated 5/12/2006 8:35:02 PM Central Standard Time, Wizzard187@aol.com writes: Pieters, Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders. Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new ones are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the best and what are the cost. Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how does it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes. Ken in rainy Iowa Ken, I had my cylinders chromed at : Aircraft Cylinders of America Tulsa, Oklahoma 918-582-1785 The actual chrome process cost only $125 per cylinder, however, there is many other costs associated with rebuilding the four cylinders, such as clean & inspect, overhaul & certify, new valves, guides, springs, seats, keepers, studs, bushings, and leak tests. My total bill for them came to a little over $1800. Advantages of chrome, is you can bring the cylinder bore back to standard bore, and if they claim that if the engine sits idle for extended periods, the cylinders will Not rust. Chrome cylinders are identified by the orange paint on the exterior of the base of the cylinders. Chuck G. NX770CG p.s. I saved about 7 pages of discussion of Continental A65 engine rebuilding, from Jan. '03, I could send you in e-mail direct...if you wish me to. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:45 PM PST US From: "Runnels County, Texas" Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG Kas Thomas a few years back (around 1994) wrote in TBO Advisor that Channel chrome should be avoided because of step-wear problems. He wasn't too impressed with Satin chrome process either. There is a third chrome process, but the name escapes me, and I think it is less suseptable to step wear (the wearing at the last few milimeters at the top of the jug where the piston stops and returns after the compression stroke and exhaust. Thomas wrote a glowing review about Cerminil. I sent my cyclinders from my Lycoming 0-320 E2A to Engine Components, Inc. back in 1995 and was very happy with the process. I had the same process (Cerminil) done to my Continental A-80 cyclinders, but I have no experience yet running this engine. I know there are lots of folks from the "old-school" who would try nothing but Chrome, but Thomas wrote that nickel is a very hard process, isn't prone to step wear. Thomas also advised that oil "likes" to adhere to nickle better than chrome and the logic here suggests better lubricity over chrome. The only way I was able to get the Cerminal process done on the "A" series Continental was to go through Century Cyclinders in Fort Worth. ECI no longer takes the jugs direct from the customer, but they will accept them from a shop like Century. (Century is a nice shop to do business with in my experience...) I can also tell you the A&P/AI who installed the Cerminil cyclinders on my A-80 said he had to take a die grinder to one of the cyclinders to remove some material at the top of the jug that was interfering with the piston during full compression. (I wasn't real happy about that and nearly wrote a letter to ECI about their quality control process) but other than that I am totally impressed with nickle. It is a much newer process than chrome, but then again, there are folks out there with the mentality, "if chrome was good enough for grand daddy, it's good enough for me..." I have to admit I personally have very little experience with chrome except for the 160 horsepower Lycoming in my Cessna that I recntly bought... I only have 3 hours flying time with this engine and have not had an opportunity to do an oil analysis with it yet. I blew a gasket in my 0-320 engine having the Cerminil (a few years back and became a glider pilot) and lost all my oil. I managed to set the airplane down on my farm without "buying the farm" and when we tore the Lycoming apart, my crankshaft and bearings were shot and I sent the cyclinders back to ECI for a teardown and inspection. The cyclinders passed with flying colors. I have no idea how chrome would have handled that extra heat (no oil) but a mechanic told me that chrome can develop spider-web cracks by getting super hot like this, then shutting the engine off in mid air (like I did to do a dead-stick landing)... my mechanic said chrome would have likely gone through a shock-cooling process and result in the spider web cracks... Chrome is more brittle than nickle, thus the problem is exacerbated with chrome during the shock cooling according to the mechanic... This guy studied metalurgy when he was getting his college degree and A&P license... Sterling ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Harris To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: *****SPAM***** Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG Chuck G. I would be interested in that email also. I just bought a torn apart a65. Everything looks good but the cylinders. Nick Harris nharris25@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG In a message dated 5/12/2006 8:35:02 PM Central Standard Time, Wizzard187@aol.com writes: Pieters, Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders. Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new ones are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the best and what are the cost. Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how does it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes. Ken in rainy Iowa Ken, I had my cylinders chromed at : Aircraft Cylinders of America Tulsa, Oklahoma 918-582-1785 The actual chrome process cost only $125 per cylinder, however, there is many other costs associated with rebuilding the four cylinders, such as clean & inspect, overhaul & certify, new valves, guides, springs, seats, keepers, studs, bushings, and leak tests. My total bill for them came to a little over $1800. Advantages of chrome, is you can bring the cylinder bore back to standard bore, and if they claim that if the engine sits idle for extended periods, the cylinders will Not rust. Chrome cylinders are identified by the orange paint on the exterior of the base of the cylinders. Chuck G. NX770CG p.s. I saved about 7 pages of discussion of Continental A65 engine rebuilding, from Jan. '03, I could send you in e-mail direct...if you wish me to. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? From: "Don Emch" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" Steve, If you travel the Ohio turnpike from WI to Maine you would be welcome to stop and see mine. Since I hangar with Frank Pavliga's, you could see two at the same time. Located in Alliance, OH about 20 minutes or so off of the turnpike. Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34509#34509 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:41 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dick Navratil" Steve Are you going thru MPLS/ST. Paul ? You can stop by my hangar. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Glass" Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: To Manitowoc WI via Broadhead? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Glass" > > > Hi Everybody. > > Next Monday I am driving from Ontario Oregon to Manitowoc Wi and then on > to Jonesport Maine. If I went to Broadhead is it possible to see any > Pietenpols next week. Not sure if there are any there full tiime or if > they are in locked hangers. > > As I really have a bug to build one I would love to see one in the flesh. > Any guidance as to where to I could see one would be welcome. > > Best regards > Steve G. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > >