---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/26/06: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:42 AM - Re: newby here, sorry for the long intro post (Phillips, Jack) 2. 05:17 AM - rats ! (Michael D Cuy) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: rats ! (Rick Holland) 4. 05:52 AM - Re: rats ! () 5. 05:55 AM - you seen one wing, you seen em' both (Michael D Cuy) 6. 05:59 AM - Landing Gear, Memorial Day (tbyh@aol.com) 7. 06:20 AM - Rusty tank (Jeff Boatright) 8. 06:28 AM - Jenny gear, wood gap or no gap (Michael D Cuy) 9. 06:37 AM - GN-1 drag wires (Tom Bernie) 10. 06:53 AM - Re: Rusty tank (Isablcorky@aol.com) 11. 07:33 AM - Re: Rusty tank (Jeff Boatright) 12. 07:44 AM - Re: Rusty tank (John Hofmann) 13. 07:53 AM - Re: Rusty tank (Hans Vander Voort) 14. 07:55 AM - Welding shops in Atlanta (Michael D Cuy) 15. 08:03 AM - Re: Motor ID (Bill Church) 16. 08:03 AM - Re: Rusty tank (Isablcorky@aol.com) 17. 08:22 AM - Re: you seen one wing, you seen em' both (Rick Holland) 18. 08:25 AM - Re: you seen one wing, you seen em' both () 19. 10:40 AM - Re: Rusty tank (Gary Gower) 20. 10:47 AM - Re: Welding shops in Atlanta (Gary Gower) 21. 11:47 AM - Re: Landing Gear, Memorial Day (Phillips, Jack) 22. 12:17 PM - Re: rats ! (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 23. 12:46 PM - Re: Riveting tanks -- was Rusty tank (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 24. 01:39 PM - Re: rats ! () 25. 01:48 PM - Re: rats ! (BPA) 26. 02:49 PM - Re: Riveting tanks -- was Rusty tank (Jeff Boatright) 27. 04:57 PM - Re: Motor ID (Alan Lyscars) 28. 05:16 PM - Re: you seen one wing, you seen em' both (Rick Holland) 29. 05:17 PM - Re: newby here, sorry for the long intro post (Gordon Bowen) 30. 06:41 PM - Re: Motor ID (Alan Lyscars) 31. 08:28 PM - Re: Riveting tanks -- was Rusty tank (Jeff Boatright) 32. 08:56 PM - Re: rats ! () 33. 09:37 PM - Flying the Alaska Highway (Rob Stapleton) 34. 09:37 PM - FW: Flying the Alaska Highway...? (Rob Stapleton) 35. 10:56 PM - Re: Landing Gear, Memorial Day (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post From: "Phillips, Jack" John, Welcome to the world of Pietenpols! I agree completely with Rick Holland's post, particularly about the Tony Bingelis books. This forum is wonderful and you can get lots of good advice here, but just about everything you need to learn can be picked up from the Bingelis books. Think through your choices and realize that in most cases there are no right or wrong answers, just personal choices (as long as what you are doing is airworthy). Keep us posted on your progress. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post Okay its official. I got my prints , supplemental drawings and instructions from Don Pietenpol, so with the exception of reading all the material and planing it out in my head, I have never ever worked on an airplane before. But ever since I saw the peit, I have been intrigued by it and the build process. I had been lurking on and off here for the past 2 years and followed the threads on a limited basis when time permitted. Now its time to get to getting. I am going to need all the advise I can get from basic intro stuff to the complex so any words of advise, well I am all ears. I don't expect to jump right in with both feet at first but intend to take the slower route of one learning and construction one assembly at a time. At least that's the plan so far. My last project was the complete rebuild of a 1983 Jeep CJ7 from the ground up the project took 5 years but its on the road so I supposes there is something to be said for tenacity. I am not bad with wrenches but have much to learn about wood , cloth and such. I suppose all in due time! I hade the opportunity to speak with another builder last night from Arizona, he asked how big I was, I gave him the basic dimensions, he said I had better consider adding a few inches to the width of the cockpit section, I am not certain how that's going to happen, so if anyone has been faced with that or a krash weight reduction plan I again am really interested , especially in the preplanning stages. Lots easier to build in the change from the start of the build than to go making after the fact modifications. Well again thanks for any help , words of wisdom and advise you are able to offer as I continue to study and research. John Recine newby builder Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm) This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege= d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i= n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N= orsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:41 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: rats ! --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis books ! GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into the list here which has gone into a slumber the past month or two. Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. MIke C. in Cleveland, Ohio ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:39 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Yea, you are right Mike, this newsgroup has been a little quite lately. But that is probably a good sign, I guess people realized that nothing was getting built in the garage when they were spending all their time beating on a keyboard in the office. As far as building goes I did finish my left wing (except for varnish, cove= r and paint), so actually I guess I haven't really "finished" it have I? Neve= r mind, I will let you know when I have 'really' finished it. Rick On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy < > Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> > > They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis > books ! > > GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into > the list here which has gone > > into a slumber the past month or two. > > > Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. > > MIke C. in Cleveland, Ohio > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! From: C-IOVC is just about ready to go;wing root covers,weight and balance,brake adjustment,eyebrow scoops for engine,avgas and the blessing of two AME's and we are jack the bear! ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: May 26, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Yea, you are right Mike, this newsgroup has been a little quite lately. But that is probably a good sign, I guess people realized that nothing was getting built in the garage when they were spending all their time beating on a keyboard in the office. As far as building goes I did finish my left wing (except for varnish, cover and paint), so actually I guess I haven't really "finished" it have I? Never mind, I will let you know when I have 'really' finished it. Rick On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis books ! GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into the list here which has gone into a slumber the past month or two. Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= atures Navigator to browse ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= out the All New Matronics Email List Wiki! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= - List Contrib &nb-> http://www.matronic=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:51 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both Rick-- good to hear you have completed one wing. You will be amazed at how FAST the other wing will go. Wings go together wayyyyy faster than the fuselage. Everything bolts to the fuselage and all the controls and systems are in there. The wings were really satisfying for me to build. Here is a wing pic for all you builders to get you enthused again. Remember--this is a three day weekend for most of us so let your family know that you are going to be working in the shop some on either Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.....or perhaps all three ! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:20 AM PST US From: tbyh@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear, Memorial Day I have a question about the Jenny style landing gear. Do the tops of the woo= d struts fit sug up against the lower fuselage longerons, or is there a gap=20= between them? I would think that there should be a gap, but it isn't clear t= o me on the plans. I should get out my Brodhead pictures and that might help= me, too... If there is a gap, should it be a 1/4-inch or...? Speaking of Memorial Day -- I found the following the other day while doing=20= some research into the new "National Museum of the United States Army" that=20= will be built near Washington DC -- this will be a $300 million museum (http= ://www.armyhistory.org/index.aspx). "Before You Go" appears at the end of th= e museum's on-line newsletter "Call to Duty"-- hopefully they won't mind if=20= I copy it here. Be sure to thank a Vet this weekend -- not only Navy, Marine, Air Force, Arm= y, Coast Guard but also the U.S. Merchant Marines (like my dad who made seve= n trips across the Pacific in 1944-45 delivering food, medicine, ammo and ev= en beer to the GIs, Marines and airmen at Tinian, Saipan, Guam and Okinawa.=20= It wasn't until about 10 years ago that he finally got to drive across San F= rancisco's Golden Gate Bridge -- although he'd sailed under it many times so= many years before. And a few years ago Paul Tibbets came to La Crosse to pr= omote his book -- my dad and Tibbets sat next to each other at the dinner th= at evening and swapped stories about life on Tinian -- both heroes in my boo= k! Fred B. La Crosse, WI BEFORE YOU GO Quietly, you=E2=80=99ve all turned gray, You did the job, you saved our way. Our life and freedom you preserved, We=E2=80=99ve thanked you less than you=E2=80=99ve deserved. You never boasted, bragged, or asked For adulation for your past. You did the job you knew was right, And quietly, you cry at night For bodies maimed and comrades lost, For sights beyond our furthest thoughts, For what you=E2=80=99ve lived and felt and seen, For what the cost of freedom means. You leave us blessed with every breath That cost you arms and legs and death. You won the worst and greatest war, We owe you more, we owe you more. Thank you for your wondrous feats, For open speech and quiet streets, For worship as we choose to pray, For preservation of our way. Before you go, we need to show That in your silence we still know What you accomplished and what you did. For who we are and how we live. So go with love from wives and sons And daughters for a job well done. >From kids who=E2=80=99ve never seen a tank, We give you thanks, we give you thanks. Thank you for your wondrous feats, For open speech and quiet streets, For worship as we choose to pray, For preservation of our way, For homes and jobs and baseball games, For many colors, many names. You=E2=80=99ve saved our lives and we=E2=80=99re still free, >From shining sea to shining sea. Thank you=E2=80=A6Thank you=E2=80=A6Thank you =E2=80=A6Go in peace=E2=80=A6. THE STORY BEHIND BEFORE YOU GO The elderly parking lot attendant wasn=E2=80=99t in a good mood. Neither was= Sam Bierstock. It was around 1 a.m., and Bierstock, a Delray Beach, Florida, eye doctor, business consultant, cor= porate speaker and musician, was bonetired after appearing at an event. He p= ulled up in his car, and the parking attendant began to speak. "I took two b= ullets for this country and look what I=E2=80=99m doing," he said bitterly. At first, Bierstock didn=E2=80=99t know what to say to the World War II vete= ran. But he rolled down his window and told the man, "Really, from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you.= " Then the old soldier began to cry. "That really got to me," Bierstock says. Bierstock, 58 and John Melnick, 54,= of Pompano Beach, a member of Bierstock=E2=80=99s band, "Dr. Sam and Managed Care Band," have wr= itten a song inspired by that old soldier in the airport parking lot. The ly= rics to "Before You Go" are worth sharing here, and appear with the permissi= on of Bierstock. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:34 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright During the condition inspection of our Piet, we've found that the fuselage tank, which is made of galvanized steel, has some rust on the interior walls. Does anyone have experience with removing such rust, and further, any ideas about how to test whether the tank is worth saving? That is, is there a way to tell if the corrosion has made the tank too weak? Thanks, Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:20 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jenny gear, wood gap or no gap --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy Hello Fred--- I made my wood gear legs to fit fairly close to the fuselage fitting/bottom longeron and filed/cut, chistled (sp?) a notch in the top for the wood end to have room for the strap fitting/middle part of the metal fitting. Those gear legs seem so light and flimsy until you bolt them in and install and tighten the X brace cables below----then you realize the impressive strength of that style landing gear-----like a BRIDGE it is ! Another awesome museum is the Air Force Musuem in Dayton, Ohio. It is FREE. FREE parking FREE admission. This is no 2 hour walk-thru either. This is a Smithsonian quality, massive, massive, totally impressive museum. Well worth a drive. http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/index.htm Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:56 AM PST US From: "Tom Bernie" Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 drag wires Does anybody know of a source or substitution for the 9/64" 1050 steel tie-rod stock specified for the GN-1. Thanks in advance, Tom Bernie ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:09 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank Dr Jeff, If I might be allowed to suggest that someone's life, an expensive item, will depend on the flow of fuel from that tank to the engine. An aluminum tank, an inexpensive item, should be considered immediately. Corky ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:19 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank Cc: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Corky, I've been having a heck of a time finding someone to weld aluminum. You'd think in a metro area like Atlanta I'd have no problem, yet it's been three weeks of me and my Piet partner asking around at EAA meetings and small airports with no luck. No doubt there people to do the job, but we've had no luck finding them. What do you think about the strategy of building one using rivets and seam sealant? Thanks, Jeff At 9:51 AM -0400 5/26/06, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote: >Dr Jeff, >If I might be allowed to suggest that someone's life, an expensive >item, will depend on the flow of fuel from that tank to the engine. >An aluminum tank, an inexpensive item, should be considered >immediately. >Corky -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank From: John Hofmann --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann Hi Jeff, Dont check airports for aluminum welders. I would suggest you try out the race car guys. You should have no problem finding someone in that group around Atlanta. You may want to tell them it is for a boat and not an airplane. Sometimes people can get a bit skittish if you mention "airplane." TakeCare, -john- > Corky, > > I've been having a heck of a time finding someone to weld aluminum. You'd > think in a metro area like Atlanta I'd have no problem, yet it's been three > weeks of me and my Piet partner asking around at EAA meetings and small > airports with no luck. No doubt there people to do the job, but we've had no > luck finding them. > > What do you think about the strategy of building one using rivets and seam > sealant? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > At 9:51 AM -0400 5/26/06, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote: >> Dr Jeff, >> If I might be allowed to suggest that someone's life, an expensive item, will >> depend on the flow of fuel from that tank to the engine. An aluminum tank, an >> inexpensive item, should be considered immediately. >> Corky > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank From: Hans Vander Voort --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort Jeff, Try the race car guys, most of them use Aluminum tanks. An other option is, using a piper J 3 tank (worked for me) 12.5 Gallon The Eaa bipe is using this tank and is listed by AS&S as part # 05-18800 non certified Or certified 05-18700 Wagareo is using this identical tank in their sport trainer. I asked AS&S for dimensional drawings before I purchased mine and got a faxed copy The drawings list the above AS&S Partnumbers and the Wagareo part. Hans Jeff Boatright To Sent by: Isablcorky@aol.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron pietenpol-list@matronics.com ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank 05/26/2006 09:32 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Corky, I've been having a heck of a time finding someone to weld aluminum. You'd think in a metro area like Atlanta I'd have no problem, yet it's been three weeks of me and my Piet partner asking around at EAA meetings and small airports with no luck. No doubt there people to do the job, but we've had no luck finding them. What do you think about the strategy of building one using rivets and seam sealant? Thanks, Jeff At 9:51 AM -0400 5/26/06, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote: Dr Jeff, If I might be allowed to suggest that someone's life, an expensive item, will depend on the flow of fuel from that tank to the engine. An aluminum tank, an inexpensive item, should be considered immediately. Corky -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:40 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding shops in Atlanta Finest Welding Service 2540 Gresham Rd Se Atlanta, GA 30316 (404) 241-8566 Guthrie Machine Works 6 Steve Dr Doraville, GA 30340 (770) 448-7240 Atlanta Area Technical School 1560 Metropolitan Pkwy SW Atlanta, GA 30310 (404) 756-3700 Atlanta Welding Company 2626 Lithonia Industrial Blvd. Lithonia, GA 30058 770-482-2554 corey@aawelding.com http://www.aawelding.com/index2.html Martin Welding Company 536 Edgewood Ave Se Atlanta, GA 30312 (404) 525-3106 A&R Welding 552 Decatur St Se Atlanta, GA 30312 (404) 522-0097 Ray Fears Welding & Fab 1440 Adele Ave SW Atlanta, GA 30314 (404) 753-4011 Clark Welding Incorporated 1290 Lynwyn LN Se Atlanta, GA 30316 (404) 622-6926 Zappa's Precision Welding 525 Circle 85 St Atlanta, GA 30349 (404) 761-6390 All-Pro Iron Works 4059 Fairburn Ave SW Atlanta, GA 30331 (404) 344-8810 Roebuck Welding & Machine Co. 1239 Allene Ave SW Atlanta, GA 30310 (404) 758-9208 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID From: "Bill Church" Alan, Cool model. That definitely looks like a CO2 motor. They were first produced in the late 40's, and I remember them still being available in the 70's when I began building models. The little copper tube coming out of the top of the engine goes to the "fuel" tank, and then another copper tube goes to the filler valve. The "fuel" tank gets charged with CO2, and then the expanding gas is used to move the piston. I just did a bit of research on the web and found this site that explains how these little machines work: http://www.keveney.com/co2.html And here's a site that explains a bit more: http://blacksheepsquadron.com/Flying_with_CO2.htm Bill C P.S. Perhaps the yellow liquid in the glass beside the plane could be a potential fuel source?? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Lyscars Sent: May 25, 2006 11:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID Gents, Tonight I recieved this old handmade model Piet made years ago by a now deceased member of our Chapter. One of the old timers remembers this bird flying on its own but doesn't know anything about the motor installed. Can any of you guys identify the motor from the attached pics and tell me how it works? This old girl will keep me company in the shop while I build her Big Sister! Thanks fellas, Alan ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:56 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank Dr Jeff, Would discourage the rivet tank. You would lay awake half your nights worrying about fuel on the floor in the hangar. I found a young man who worked for his father in his radiator shop who did aluminum welding and he did a great job. JoeC, _fishin3@earthlink.net_ (mailto:fishin3@earthlink.net) , had the tank for 41CC completed when I bought the project from him. You might check with him for help. You could make yourself a mockup with posterboard with 1/2 inch outside flanges to fit your plane then mail or ship to a fabricator. Also Mike Cuy had his custom bilt also. If all fails I can help by contacting my man to see if he wants to sew up another. In any case you will be looking at @ $400 up Corky ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:15 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both Thanks Mike, I knew I could depend on you for encouragement and moral support, now I can go start on the right wing immediately. Rick do no archive On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > > Rick-- good to hear you have completed one wing. You will be amazed at > how FAST the other wing will go. > > Wings go together wayyyyy faster than the fuselage. Everything bolts to > the fuselage and all the controls and systems > > are in there. The wings were really satisfying for me to build. > > > Here is a wing pic for all you builders to get you enthused > again. Remember--this is a three day weekend for most of > > us so let your family know that you are going to be working in the shop > some on either Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.....or > > perhaps all three ! > > Mike C. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both From: If one wing goes faster than the other then would that mean you are flying in circles? ;-) Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: May 26, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both Thanks Mike, I knew I could depend on you for encouragement and moral support, now I can go start on the right wing immediately. Rick do no archive On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: Rick-- good to hear you have completed one wing. You will be amazed at how FAST the other wing will go. Wings go together wayyyyy faster than the fuselage. Everything bolts to the fuselage and all the controls and systems are in there. The wings were really satisfying for me to build. Here is a wing pic for all you builders to get you enthused again. Remember--this is a three day weekend for most of us so let your family know that you are going to be working in the shop some on either Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.....or perhaps all three ! Mike C. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:17 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rusty tank Hello Jeff, There are 3 things (in cost order) you have to check for yourself: How much will cost to replace the tank, for an aluminum one? How much will cost to repair the Piet in a deadstick landing? (fuel system cloged) How much will cost the hospital bills, if you "blow" the forced landing? Well, I promised 3. :-) Hope this gives you an idea what to do... Saludos Gary Gower. Jeff Boatright wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright During the condition inspection of our Piet, we've found that the fuselage tank, which is made of galvanized steel, has some rust on the interior walls. Does anyone have experience with removing such rust, and further, any ideas about how to test whether the tank is worth saving? That is, is there a way to tell if the corrosion has made the tank too weak? Thanks, Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:00 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding shops in Atlanta Mike, Great job... Well only missing will be a 0 to 10 number in each of them for quality/ price. :-) :-) Saludos Gary Gower. Do not archive. Michael D Cuy wrote: Finest Welding Service 2540 Gresham Rd Se Atlanta, GA 30316 (404) 241-8566 Guthrie Machine Works 6 Steve Dr Doraville, GA 30340 (770) 448-7240 Atlanta Area Technical School 1560 Metropolitan Pkwy SW Atlanta, GA 30310 (404) 756-3700 Atlanta Welding Company 2626 Lithonia Industrial Blvd. Lithonia, GA 30058 770-482-2554 corey@aawelding.com http://www.aawelding.com/index2.html Martin Welding Company 536 Edgewood Ave Se Atlanta, GA 30312 (404) 525-3106 A&R Welding 552 Decatur St Se Atlanta, GA 30312 (404) 522-0097 Ray Fears Welding & Fab 1440 Adele Ave SW Atlanta, GA 30314 (404) 753-4011 Clark Welding Incorporated 1290 Lynwyn LN Se Atlanta, GA 30316 (404) 622-6926 Zappa's Precision Welding 525 Circle 85 St Atlanta, GA 30349 (404) 761-6390 All-Pro Iron Works 4059 Fairburn Ave SW Atlanta, GA 30331 (404) 344-8810 Roebuck Welding & Machine Co. 1239 Allene Ave SW Atlanta, GA 30310 (404) 758-9208 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear, Memorial Day From: "Phillips, Jack" Mine fit nice and tight, flush against the bottom of the fuselage, and flush against the "V-Blocks" at the bottom. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tbyh@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear, Memorial Day I have a question about the Jenny style landing gear. Do the tops of the wood struts fit sug up against the lower fuselage longerons, or is there a gap between them? I would think that there should be a gap, but it isn't clear to me on the plans. I should get out my Brodhead pictures and that might help me, too... If there is a gap, should it be a 1/4-inch or...? Speaking of Memorial Day -- I found the following the other day while doing some research into the new "National Museum of the United States Army" that will be built near Washington DC -- this will be a $300 million museum (http://www.armyhistory.org/index.aspx). "Before You Go" appears at the end of the museum's on-line newsletter "Call to Duty"-- hopefully they won't mind if I copy it here. Be sure to thank a Vet this weekend -- not only Navy, Marine, Air Force, Army, Coast Guard but also the U.S. Merchant Marines (like my dad who made seven trips across the Pacific in 1944-45 delivering food, medicine, ammo and even beer to the GIs, Marines and airmen at Tinian, Saipan, Guam and Okinawa. It wasn't until about 10 years ago that he finally got to drive across San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge -- although he'd sailed under it many times so many years before. And a few years ago Paul Tibbets came to La Crosse to promote his book -- my dad and Tibbets sat next to each other at the dinner that evening and swapped stories about life on Tinian -- both heroes in my book! Fred B. La Crosse, WI BEFORE YOU GO Quietly, you've all turned gray, You did the job, you saved our way. Our life and freedom you preserved, We've thanked you less than you've deserved. You never boasted, bragged, or asked For adulation for your past. You did the job you knew was right, And quietly, you cry at night For bodies maimed and comrades lost, For sights beyond our furthest thoughts, For what you've lived and felt and seen, For what the cost of freedom means. You leave us blessed with every breath That cost you arms and legs and death. You won the worst and greatest war, We owe you more, we owe you more. Thank you for your wondrous feats, For open speech and quiet streets, For worship as we choose to pray, For preservation of our way. Before you go, we need to show That in your silence we still know What you accomplished and what you did. For who we are and how we live. So go with love from wives and sons And daughters for a job well done. >From kids who've never seen a tank, We give you thanks, we give you thanks. Thank you for your wondrous feats, For open speech and quiet streets, For worship as we choose to pray, For preservation of our way, For homes and jobs and baseball games, For many colors, many names. You've saved our lives and we're still free, >From shining sea to shining sea. Thank you...Thank you...Thank you ..Go in peace.... THE STORY BEHIND BEFORE YOU GO The elderly parking lot attendant wasn't in a good mood. Neither was Sam Bierstock. It was around 1 a.m., and Bierstock, a Delray Beach, Florida, eye doctor, business consultant, corporate speaker and musician, was bonetired after appearing at an event. He pulled up in his car, and the parking attendant began to speak. "I took two bullets for this country and look what I'm doing," he said bitterly. At first, Bierstock didn't know what to say to the World War II veteran. But he rolled down his window and told the man, "Really, from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you." Then the old soldier began to cry. "That really got to me," Bierstock says. Bierstock, 58 and John Melnick, 54, of Pompano Beach, a member of Bierstock's band, "Dr. Sam and Managed Care Band," have written a song inspired by that old soldier in the airport parking lot. The lyrics to "Before You Go" are worth sharing here, and appear with the permission of Bierstock. Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm) This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege= d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i= n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N= orsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:12 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! That's great! But tell me, seriously, who is Jack the Bear? I had a Canadian friend a long time ago when we raced stock cars (Earl Ross was his name) who used to= say that his car was running like Jack the Bear. Now I say it sometimes too, b= ut don't know who Jack the Bear is when people ask me. Thanks, Dan Hopper Walton, IN do not archive In a message dated 5/26/2006 8:53:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, harvey.rule@bell.ca writes: C-IOVC is just about ready to go;wing root covers,weight and balance,brake adjustment,eyebrow scoops for engine,avgas and the blessing of two AME=E2= =80=99s and we are jack the bear! ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: May 26, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Yea, you are right Mike, this newsgroup has been a little quite lately. But= that is probably a good sign, I guess people realized that nothing was getting built in the garage when they were spending all their time beating=20= on a keyboard in the office. As far as building goes I did finish my left wing (except for varnish, cove= r and paint), so actually I guess I haven't really "finished" it have I? Neve= r mind, I will let you know when I have 'really' finished it. Rick On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy <_Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov_ (mailto:Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov) > wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <_Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov_ (mailto:Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov) > They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis books ! GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into the list here which has gone into a slumber the past month or two. Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Da= tures Navigator to browse ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20= out the All New Matronics Email List Wiki! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20= - List Contrib &nb-> _http://www.matronic=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D _ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) _ -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" _ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:10 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riveting tanks -- was Rusty tank Jeff, If you choose to build the tank using rivets and sealant, talk to the RV (Vans type) guys. All RVs use that type of tank (mine included), so it is definitely an option. If you choose to rivet the tank, use 2024 T3 aluminum -- preferably .032 inch thick. (See why below.) You will have to keep the bend radius great enough to avoid cracking it -- perhaps 1/4 inch. But this means that it can be lighter and stronger than a welded tank. The Proseal sealant makes this a really messy job. Most of the RV guys agree that it is one of the worst parts of building the airplane. I helped a friend do some riveting on his Emeraude tank made of .050 soft aluminum, and it was hard to keep from bending the rivets over. That aluminum was just too soft to support a long rivet while driving or squeezing it. If you weld it you will have to use soft (5000 series, I think) aluminum -- see Aircraft Spruce catalog for good info. Hope this helps, Dan Hopper Have the Piet plans but haven't decided to start it yet. In a message dated 5/26/2006 10:35:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jboatri@emory.edu writes: Corky, I've been having a heck of a time finding someone to weld aluminum. You'd think in a metro area like Atlanta I'd have no problem, yet it's been three weeks of me and my Piet partner asking around at EAA meetings and small airports with no luck. No doubt there people to do the job, but we've had no luck finding them. What do you think about the strategy of building one using rivets and seam sealant? Thanks, Jeff ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:51 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! From: Jack the Bear is that Bear that used to do the commercials for forest fires(wears the troopers hat),remember him.He's still around but you don't hear too much about him anymore so we like to kind of keep him in the for front by mentioning his name every once in a while. ;-) Remember don't feed the Bears either! Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Sent: May 26, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! That's great! But tell me, seriously, who is Jack the Bear? I had a Canadian friend a long time ago when we raced stock cars (Earl Ross was his name) who used to say that his car was running like Jack the Bear. Now I say it sometimes too, but don't know who Jack the Bear is when people ask me. Thanks, Dan Hopper Walton, IN do not archive In a message dated 5/26/2006 8:53:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, harvey.rule@bell.ca writes: C-IOVC is just about ready to go;wing root covers,weight and balance,brake adjustment,eyebrow scoops for engine,avgas and the blessing of two AME's and we are jack the bear! =09 ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: May 26, 2006 8:36 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Yea, you are right Mike, this newsgroup has been a little quite lately. But that is probably a good sign, I guess people realized that nothing was getting built in the garage when they were spending all their time beating on a keyboard in the office. =09 As far as building goes I did finish my left wing (except for varnish, cover and paint), so actually I guess I haven't really "finished" it have I? Never mind, I will let you know when I have 'really' finished it. =09 Rick On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy =09 They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis books ! =09 GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into the list here which has gone =09 into a slumber the past month or two. =09 =09 Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= atures Navigator to browse ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= out the All New Matronics Email List Wiki! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= - List Contrib &nb-> http://www.matronic=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 -- Rick Holland =09 "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:24 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! From: "BPA" I thought his name was Smokey? Allen Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule@bell.ca Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Jack the Bear is that Bear that used to do the commercials for forest fires(wears the troopers hat),remember him.He's still around but you don't hear too much about him anymore so we like to kind of keep him in the for front by mentioning his name every once in a while. ;-) Remember don't feed the Bears either! Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Sent: May 26, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! That's great! But tell me, seriously, who is Jack the Bear? I had a Canadian friend a long time ago when we raced stock cars (Earl Ross was his name) who used to say that his car was running like Jack the Bear. Now I say it sometimes too, but don't know who Jack the Bear is when people ask me. Thanks, Dan Hopper Walton, IN do not archive In a message dated 5/26/2006 8:53:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, harvey.rule@bell.ca writes: C-IOVC is just about ready to go;wing root covers,weight and balance,brake adjustment,eyebrow scoops for engine,avgas and the blessing of two AME's and we are jack the bear! =09 ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: May 26, 2006 8:36 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Yea, you are right Mike, this newsgroup has been a little quite lately. But that is probably a good sign, I guess people realized that nothing was getting built in the garage when they were spending all their time beating on a keyboard in the office. =09 As far as building goes I did finish my left wing (except for varnish, cover and paint), so actually I guess I haven't really "finished" it have I? Never mind, I will let you know when I have 'really' finished it. =09 Rick On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy =09 They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis books ! =09 GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into the list here which has gone =09 into a slumber the past month or two. =09 =09 Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= atures Navigator to browse ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= out the All New Matronics Email List Wiki! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= - List Contrib &nb-> http://www.matronic=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 -- Rick Holland =09 "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:21 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riveting tanks -- was Rusty tank Dan, Thanks so much for the information. Yours is the first reply that didn't amount to "throw $450 at the problem and it'll go away", though I do appreciate the time and considerations others took in making suggestions. Regards, Jeff >Jeff, > >If you choose to build the tank using rivets and sealant, talk to >the RV (Vans type) guys. All RVs use that type of tank (mine >included), so it is definitely an option. If you choose to rivet >the tank, use 2024 T3 aluminum -- preferably .032 inch thick. (See >why below.) You will have to keep the bend radius great enough to >avoid cracking it -- perhaps 1/4 inch. But this means that it can >be lighter and stronger than a welded tank. The Proseal sealant >makes this a really messy job. Most of the RV guys agree that it is >one of the worst parts of building the airplane. > >I helped a friend do some riveting on his Emeraude tank made of .050 >soft aluminum, and it was hard to keep from bending the rivets over. >That aluminum was just too soft to support a long rivet while >driving or squeezing it. If you weld it you will have to use soft >(5000 series, I think) aluminum -- see Aircraft Spruce catalog for >good info. Hope this helps, > >Dan Hopper > >Have the Piet plans but haven't decided to start it yet. > > >In a message dated 5/26/2006 10:35:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >jboatri@emory.edu writes: > >Corky, > >I've been having a heck of a time finding someone to weld aluminum. >You'd think in a metro area like Atlanta I'd have no problem, yet >it's been three weeks of me and my Piet partner asking around at EAA >meetings and small airports with no luck. No doubt there people to >do the job, but we've had no luck finding them. > >What do you think about the strategy of building one using rivets >and seam sealant? > >Thanks, > >Jeff > > -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:19 PM PST US From: "Alan Lyscars" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID Bill, Thanks so much for this info. I've got a feeling that this old girl was made sometime in the early sixties; therefore probably a CO2 motor. By the by, that liquid you saw in the snap (didn't have time to crop!) wouldn't work as is as a fuel for this ship. But how to compress and bottle it after consumption...? Regards, Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 11:06 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID Alan, Cool model. That definitely looks like a CO2 motor. They were first produced in the late 40's, and I remember them still being available in the 70's when I began building models. The little copper tube coming out of the top of the engine goes to the "fuel" tank, and then another copper tube goes to the filler valve. The "fuel" tank gets charged with CO2, and then the expanding gas is used to move the piston. I just did a bit of research on the web and found this site that explains how these little machines work: http://www.keveney.com/co2.html And here's a site that explains a bit more: http://blacksheepsquadron.com/Flying_with_CO2.htm Bill C P.S. Perhaps the yellow liquid in the glass beside the plane could be a potential fuel source?? ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Lyscars Sent: May 25, 2006 11:01 PM To: Piet List Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID Gents, Tonight I recieved this old handmade model Piet made years ago by a now deceased member of our Chapter. One of the old timers remembers this bird flying on its own but doesn't know anything about the motor installed. Can any of you guys identify the motor from the attached pics and tell me how it works? This old girl will keep me company in the shop while I build her Big Sister! Thanks fellas, Alan ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:43 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both Not if you only have one wing, as in my case. do not archive On 5/26/06, harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: > > If one wing goes faster than the other then would that mean you are > flying in circles? ;-) > > > Do not archive > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* May 26, 2006 11:21 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both > > > Thanks Mike, I knew I could depend on you for encouragement and moral > support, now I can go start on the right wing immediately. > > > Rick > > do no archive > > On 5/26/06, *Michael D Cuy* wrote: > > > Rick-- good to hear you have completed one wing. You will be amazed at > how FAST the other wing will go. > > Wings go together wayyyyy faster than the fuselage. Everything bolts to > the fuselage and all the controls and systems > > are in there. The wings were really satisfying for me to build. > > > Here is a wing pic for all you builders to get you enthused > again. Remember--this is a three day weekend for most of > > us so let your family know that you are going to be working in the shop > some on either Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.....or > > perhaps all three ! > > Mike C. > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:19 PM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post OK, John Here's my two cents worth, after 3 homebuilts and numerous helping projects. 1) Building is a passion, lifetime type desire to be around, inside and outside of airplanes. It's lifetime learning. 2) After the first couple years the thrill wears off. The rush to get done either ends up in frustration and you garage your dream, or you grit your teeth and become a real homebuilt craftsman. Your project from plans could take anywhere from 2 to 10 years, depending on how much of your spare time you want to take away from honey-do projects or the kids. The vast vast number of plans build projects are never finished!!!!!!!! 3) If you are building the plane just because you want to fly, fur git about it!!!!! Go buy a cheaper spam can. You'll be flying sooner and cheaper, with an old C-150 or join a flying club. If you are building because you have the skills as a woodworker, it's a good start, but you have to learn a whole bunch of new skills working with metals. The expensive and time eating projects on a homebuilt are all the metal parts, ie. fuel system, electrical system, control systems, engine, brakes, etc. etc. You have to observe, read and learn by mistake these new skills or your pile of sika spruce will be nothing more than a nice idea. 4) The plans sold by any designer are never ever complete!!!!!!!! You learn by trial and error where the plans are not complete. If you want to build a homebuilt from a complete set of plans without thinking too much about it, go buy an RV or Lancair pre-made parts project. There's a very good reason why RV's have very high completion rates, the pre-made parts! You just put part A into slot B and screw in with screw C, just like putting together the kids Xmas toys or their swing set in the back yard. Building from scratch from plans requires the skill and patience of a true craftsman and the determination of a bulldog. 5) The books recommended by other members of this group are mandatory starts for the learning process. Next comes your local EAA chapter and/or some great fly-in's like Broadhead. Oshkash is less useful unless you make it a point to attend the workshops and forums, forget about the sales tents you don't need all that high tech junk they're offering for a very long time. How many hats and tee shirts does a person need, anyway. 6) Find a building buddy, hopefully your wife will become one of your building buddies too, lowers the divorce rates of homebuilders. Working together with someone will reinforce the desire to compete the project, makes great hanger beer parties/barbecues and you'll learn from one another. 7) Make peace with the fact that when you think you're 80% done, you've got 80% still to go. Don't be too proud to throw out some marginal part you've made and do it again. Nobody will know of the poor quality part buried somewhere in the airframe, except you and you cannot ever forget about it, you'll be thinking about it every time you hit the starter. 8) Don't get overwhelmed with the beauty of some of the projects that show up at fly-ins or Oskash. Some guys have been working at building for 40 years and lots of these award winners are real evidence of a lifetime commitment to learning and craftmanship with homebuilts, these were not their first projects, their learning mistakes are buried somewhere in the back of the garage or hanger. Your first efforts will not look like these but it will be yours, paid for and flies, if you have the bulldog determination to hang in there. Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post Okay its official. I got my prints , supplemental drawings and instructions from Don Pietenpol, so with the exception of reading all the material and planing it out in my head, I have never ever worked on an airplane before. But ever since I saw the peit, I have been intrigued by it and the build process. I had been lurking on and off here for the past 2 years and followed the threads on a limited basis when time permitted. Now its time to get to getting. I am going to need all the advise I can get from basic intro stuff to the complex so any words of advise, well I am all ears. I don't expect to jump right in with both feet at first but intend to take the slower route of one learning and construction one assembly at a time. At least that's the plan so far. My last project was the complete rebuild of a 1983 Jeep CJ7 from the ground up the project took 5 years but its on the road so I supposes there is something to be said for tenacity. I am not bad with wrenches but have much to learn about wood , cloth and such. I suppose all in due time! I hade the opportunity to speak with another builder last night from Arizona, he asked how big I was, I gave him the basic dimensions, he said I had better consider adding a few inches to the width of the cockpit section, I am not certain how that's going to happen, so if anyone has been faced with that or a krash weight reduction plan I again am really interested , especially in the preplanning stages. Lots easier to build in the change from the start of the build than to go making after the fact modifications. Well again thanks for any help , words of wisdom and advise you are able to offer as I continue to study and research. John Recine newby builder ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:18 PM PST US From: "Alan Lyscars" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID Dear Noel, Thanks very much for your replies. Based on your and Bill Church's replies I'm gathering that I've got on my hands a CO2 engine. I'm missing, however, the knowlege and means to make her work. We'll see... Kind regards, Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: noel anderson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motor ID Hi Alan. Another thourght on the model engin, it could be compressed air, I recall some of the older designs from the "30's used a bicycle pump to force air into a chamber!! Regards Noel in NZ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:51 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riveting tanks -- was Rusty tank Hmm. Well THAT didn't come out right. To be clear, I really appreciate the comments (and there were lots of them) about having a new tank built from aluminum (or building one and have a welder finish it up). Also, I greatly appreciate the time and effort several listers expended to send me drawings and insights. I am too cheap, and $450 seems like a lot of money, but I'll get over it! As Corky and others have said, there's cheap and then there's the cost of replacing the plane, or me, etc. Thanks again, gang. Jeff >Dan, > >Thanks so much for the information. Yours is the first reply that >didn't amount to "throw $450 at the problem and it'll go away", >though I do appreciate the time and considerations others took in >making suggestions. > >Regards, > >Jeff > >>Jeff, >> >>If you choose to build the tank using rivets and sealant, talk to >>the RV (Vans type) guys. All RVs use that type of tank (mine >>included), so it is definitely an option. If you choose to rivet >>the tank, use 2024 T3 aluminum -- preferably .032 inch thick. (See >>why below.) You will have to keep the bend radius great enough to >>avoid cracking it -- perhaps 1/4 inch. But this means that it can >>be lighter and stronger than a welded tank. The Proseal sealant >>makes this a really messy job. Most of the RV guys agree that it >>is one of the worst parts of building the airplane. >> >>I helped a friend do some riveting on his Emeraude tank made of >>.050 soft aluminum, and it was hard to keep from bending the rivets >>over. That aluminum was just too soft to support a long rivet >>while driving or squeezing it. If you weld it you will have to use >>soft (5000 series, I think) aluminum -- see Aircraft Spruce catalog >>for good info. Hope this helps, >> >>Dan Hopper >> >>Have the Piet plans but haven't decided to start it yet. >> >> >>In a message dated 5/26/2006 10:35:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>jboatri@emory.edu writes: >> >>Corky, >> >>I've been having a heck of a time finding someone to weld aluminum. >>You'd think in a metro area like Atlanta I'd have no problem, yet >>it's been three weeks of me and my Piet partner asking around at >>EAA meetings and small airports with no luck. No doubt there people >>to do the job, but we've had no luck finding them. >> >>What do you think about the strategy of building one using rivets >>and seam sealant? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jeff >> >> > > >-- >Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. >Associate Professor >Department of Ophthalmology >Emory University School of Medicine >Atlanta, GA 30322 >Editor-in-Chief >Molecular Vision >http://www.molvis.org/ -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! From: Yup,same Bear only you guys states side call him Smokey and we call him Jack;don't feed the Bears! Especially on the highway! ;-) Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA Sent: May 26, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! I thought his name was Smokey? Allen Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule@bell.ca Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Jack the Bear is that Bear that used to do the commercials for forest fires(wears the troopers hat),remember him.He's still around but you don't hear too much about him anymore so we like to kind of keep him in the for front by mentioning his name every once in a while. ;-) Remember don't feed the Bears either! Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Sent: May 26, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! That's great! But tell me, seriously, who is Jack the Bear? I had a Canadian friend a long time ago when we raced stock cars (Earl Ross was his name) who used to say that his car was running like Jack the Bear. Now I say it sometimes too, but don't know who Jack the Bear is when people ask me. Thanks, Dan Hopper Walton, IN do not archive In a message dated 5/26/2006 8:53:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, harvey.rule@bell.ca writes: C-IOVC is just about ready to go;wing root covers,weight and balance,brake adjustment,eyebrow scoops for engine,avgas and the blessing of two AME's and we are jack the bear! =09 ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: May 26, 2006 8:36 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rats ! Yea, you are right Mike, this newsgroup has been a little quite lately. But that is probably a good sign, I guess people realized that nothing was getting built in the garage when they were spending all their time beating on a keyboard in the office. =09 As far as building goes I did finish my left wing (except for varnish, cover and paint), so actually I guess I haven't really "finished" it have I? Never mind, I will let you know when I have 'really' finished it. =09 Rick On 5/26/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy =09 They beat me to the pulpit to expound the awesome values of the Bingelis books ! =09 GREAT to have you on the list, John. Maybe you can breath new life into the list here which has gone =09 into a slumber the past month or two. =09 =09 Make sawdust, grind fittings, less filling. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= atures Navigator to browse ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= out the All New Matronics Email List Wiki! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= - List Contrib &nb-> http://www.matronic=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 -- Rick Holland =09 "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:45 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying the Alaska Highway New topic: Alaska Highway, or the Alcan to Alaska. Yes, we still have the 3rd edition of the "Logbook," Flying to, from and in Alaska. They are available by calling the office here at 907-245-1251. Dee The Alaska Airmen's Association has a book with the resources along the way.. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:45 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Flying the Alaska Highway...? FYI, call the Alaska Airmen's Association and get the Logbook, this is a must resource for pilots coming up to Alaska. RS They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin -----Original Message----- From: Alaska Airmen's Association [mailto:info@alaskaairmen.com] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: RE: Flying the Alaska Highway...? Yes, we still have the 3rd edition of the "Logbook," Flying to, from and in Alaska. They are available by calling the office here at 245-1251. Dee -----Original Message----- From: Rob Stapleton [mailto:foto@alaska.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:18 PM Subject: Flying the Alaska Highway...? Importance: High I have several contacts that are flying up the Alaska highway this summer and are looking for info. Didn't the AAA used to have a book, and material to help Lower 48 pilots with their trips.Also I remember a log or something that they sign when the make it. Can you advise so I can post it on a list serve, I couldn't find it on the web site. Cheers, Rob Stapleton They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:37 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear, Memorial Day I agree. Having the ends flush and tight only makes sense. At the fuselage end, for instance, there's only two bolts holding it in place. That's not enough to take all the force generated in landing, especially over years of service. Also there would be a twisting action on the fitting. With the leg flush and tight to the fuse bottom the force is transmitted straight up the leg and onto the bottom of the fuselage. It is true that there is a sliding component at that joint but that's mitigated by the tight slot that the metal plate sits in. Make it all as tight and true as possible. Now, in the spirit of unquieting the doldrums, I have been on a roll. The tail feathers are all together, the cables all made up, installed and adjusted to my satisfaction ( including the 3/32 bracecables) now when I sit and make engine noises things actually happen back there as I mash the controls around. Also the two side strips are mounted. And the tailwheel. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do to control that yet though. I still haven't collected enough rubber bands to play lawn dart. Which will come first. Finish the plane or collect the requisite rubber band launch power. :-) One of our childhood pastimes was to throw lawn darts over the house and hit a newspaper on the other side. We actually got to be able to hit the damn thing. It's no wonder the youth today are in such sad shape. No lawn darts. Clif, on the wild, wild western shores of Nort America. ----- Original Message ----- Mine fit nice and tight, flush against the bottom of the fuselage, and flush against the "V-Blocks" at the bottom. Jack Phillips NX899JP