---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/27/06: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:13 AM - Re: Motor ID (Rock-a-Wing) 2. 05:45 AM - Re: newby here, sorry for the long intro post (Gene Beenenga) 3. 10:01 AM - Re: newby here, sorry for the long intro post (Gordon Bowen) 4. 10:42 AM - Re: you seen one wing, you seen em' both (javier cruz) 5. 12:53 PM - planning advice of materials and rationale (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 6. 01:41 PM - Re: planning advice of materials and rationale (gcardinal) 7. 01:52 PM - Re: cooling eyebrows () 8. 06:06 PM - Jenny style Landing Gear (TBYH@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Motor ID From: "Rock-a-Wing" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Rock-a-Wing" I see you didn't fully dispose of your fuel sample next to plane in photo; ) Interesting power plant on model John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36785#36785 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:48 AM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga Mr. Gordon Brown, Your article is not only appreciated by all of "us scratch builders". It is an intelligent, insightful and meaningful reply to all "newbys" out there, a lot of truth there that any adult should weigh seriously. Mean Gene GN-1, NX5893 that's about 80% finished, with Corvair power, see all of you at SAA and Brodhead. -----Original Message----- >From: Gordon Bowen >Sent: May 26, 2006 7:14 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post > >OK, John >Here's my two cents worth, after 3 homebuilts and numerous helping projects. >1) Building is a passion, lifetime type desire to be around, inside and outside of airplanes. It's lifetime learning. >2) After the first couple years the thrill wears off. The rush to get done either ends up in frustration and you garage your dream, or you grit your teeth and become a real homebuilt craftsman. Your project from plans could take anywhere from 2 to 10 years, depending on how much of your spare time you want to take away from honey-do projects or the kids. The vast vast number of plans build projects are never finished!!!!!!!! >3) If you are building the plane just because you want to fly, fur git about it!!!!! Go buy a cheaper spam can. You'll be flying sooner and cheaper, with an old C-150 or join a flying club. If you are building because you have the skills as a woodworker, it's a good start, but you have to learn a whole bunch of new skills working with metals. The expensive and time eating projects on a homebuilt are all the metal parts, ie. fuel system, electrical system, control systems, engine, brakes, etc. etc. You have to observe, read and learn by mistake these new skills or your pile of sika spruce will be nothing more than a nice idea. >4) The plans sold by any designer are never ever complete!!!!!!!! You learn by trial and error where the plans are not complete. If you want to build a homebuilt from a complete set of plans without thinking too much about it, go buy an RV or Lancair pre-made parts project. There's a very good reason why RV's have very high completion rates, the pre-made parts! You just put part A into slot B and screw in with screw C, just like putting together the kids Xmas toys or their swing set in the back yard. Building from scratch from plans requires the skill and patience of a true craftsman and the determination of a bulldog. >5) The books recommended by other members of this group are mandatory starts for the learning process. Next comes your local EAA chapter and/or some great fly-in's like Broadhead. Oshkash is less useful unless you make it a point to attend the workshops and forums, forget about the sales tents you don't need all that high tech junk they're offering for a very long time. How many hats and tee shirts does a person need, anyway. >6) Find a building buddy, hopefully your wife will become one of your building buddies too, lowers the divorce rates of homebuilders. Working together with someone will reinforce the desire to compete the project, makes great hanger beer parties/barbecues and you'll learn from one another. >7) Make peace with the fact that when you think you're 80% done, you've got 80% still to go. Don't be too proud to throw out some marginal part you've made and do it again. Nobody will know of the poor quality part buried somewhere in the airframe, except you and you cannot ever forget about it, you'll be thinking about it every time you hit the starter. >8) Don't get overwhelmed with the beauty of some of the projects that show up at fly-ins or Oskash. Some guys have been working at building for 40 years and lots of these award winners are real evidence of a lifetime commitment to learning and craftmanship with homebuilts, these were not their first projects, their learning mistakes are buried somewhere in the back of the garage or hanger. Your first efforts will not look like these but it will be yours, paid for and flies, if you have the bulldog determination to hang in there. >Gordon Bowen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: AMsafetyC@aol.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:39 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post > > > Okay its official. > > I got my prints , supplemental drawings and instructions from Don Pietenpol, so with the exception of reading all the material and planing it out in my head, I have never ever worked on an airplane before. But ever since I saw the peit, I have been intrigued by it and the build process. I had been lurking on and off here for the past 2 years and followed the threads on a limited basis when time permitted. > > Now its time to get to getting. I am going to need all the advise I can get from basic intro stuff to the complex so any words of advise, well I am all ears. I don't expect to jump right in with both feet at first but intend to take the slower route of one learning and construction one assembly at a time. At least that's the plan so far. > > My last project was the complete rebuild of a 1983 Jeep CJ7 from the ground up the project took 5 years but its on the road so I supposes there is something to be said for tenacity. I am not bad with wrenches but have much to learn about wood , cloth and such. I suppose all in due time! > > I hade the opportunity to speak with another builder last night from Arizona, he asked how big I was, I gave him the basic dimensions, he said I had better consider adding a few inches to the width of the cockpit section, I am not certain how that's going to happen, so if anyone has been faced with that or a krash weight reduction plan I again am really interested , especially in the preplanning stages. Lots easier to build in the change from the start of the build than to go making after the fact modifications. > > Well again thanks for any help , words of wisdom and advise you are able to offer as I continue to study and research. > > John Recine > newby builder ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:11 AM PST US From: "Gordon Bowen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gordon Bowen" Gene, Thks, everyone that's been building planes for number of years was a very least thinking what I wrote down. Everyone jumping into one of these projects gotta know up front, it's going to take effort. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Beenenga" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga > > > Mr. Gordon Brown, > > Your article is not only appreciated by all of "us scratch builders". It > is an intelligent, insightful and meaningful reply to all "newbys" out > there, a lot of truth there that any adult should weigh seriously. > > Mean Gene GN-1, NX5893 that's about 80% finished, with Corvair power, see > all of you at SAA and Brodhead. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Gordon Bowen >>Sent: May 26, 2006 7:14 PM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post >> >>OK, John >>Here's my two cents worth, after 3 homebuilts and numerous helping >>projects. >>1) Building is a passion, lifetime type desire to be around, inside and >>outside of airplanes. It's lifetime learning. >>2) After the first couple years the thrill wears off. The rush to get >>done either ends up in frustration and you garage your dream, or you grit >>your teeth and become a real homebuilt craftsman. Your project from plans >>could take anywhere from 2 to 10 years, depending on how much of your >>spare time you want to take away from honey-do projects or the kids. The >>vast vast number of plans build projects are never finished!!!!!!!! >>3) If you are building the plane just because you want to fly, fur git >>about it!!!!! Go buy a cheaper spam can. You'll be flying sooner and >>cheaper, with an old C-150 or join a flying club. If you are building >>because you have the skills as a woodworker, it's a good start, but you >>have to learn a whole bunch of new skills working with metals. The >>expensive and time eating projects on a homebuilt are all the metal parts, >>ie. fuel system, electrical system, control systems, engine, brakes, etc. >>etc. You have to observe, read and learn by mistake these new skills or >>your pile of sika spruce will be nothing more than a nice idea. >>4) The plans sold by any designer are never ever complete!!!!!!!! You >>learn by trial and error where the plans are not complete. If you want to >>build a homebuilt from a complete set of plans without thinking too much >>about it, go buy an RV or Lancair pre-made parts project. There's a very >>good reason why RV's have very high completion rates, the pre-made parts! >>You just put part A into slot B and screw in with screw C, just like >>putting together the kids Xmas toys or their swing set in the back yard. >>Building from scratch from plans requires the skill and patience of a true >>craftsman and the determination of a bulldog. >>5) The books recommended by other members of this group are mandatory >>starts for the learning process. Next comes your local EAA chapter and/or >>some great fly-in's like Broadhead. Oshkash is less useful unless you >>make it a point to attend the workshops and forums, forget about the sales >>tents you don't need all that high tech junk they're offering for a very >>long time. How many hats and tee shirts does a person need, anyway. >>6) Find a building buddy, hopefully your wife will become one of your >>building buddies too, lowers the divorce rates of homebuilders. Working >>together with someone will reinforce the desire to compete the project, >>makes great hanger beer parties/barbecues and you'll learn from one >>another. >>7) Make peace with the fact that when you think you're 80% done, you've >>got 80% still to go. Don't be too proud to throw out some marginal part >>you've made and do it again. Nobody will know of the poor quality part >>buried somewhere in the airframe, except you and you cannot ever forget >>about it, you'll be thinking about it every time you hit the starter. >>8) Don't get overwhelmed with the beauty of some of the projects that show >>up at fly-ins or Oskash. Some guys have been working at building for 40 >>years and lots of these award winners are real evidence of a lifetime >>commitment to learning and craftmanship with homebuilts, these were not >>their first projects, their learning mistakes are buried somewhere in the >>back of the garage or hanger. Your first efforts will not look like these >>but it will be yours, paid for and flies, if you have the bulldog >>determination to hang in there. >>Gordon Bowen >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: AMsafetyC@aol.com >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:39 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: newby here, sorry for the long intro post >> >> >> Okay its official. >> >> I got my prints , supplemental drawings and instructions from Don >> Pietenpol, so with the exception of reading all the material and planing >> it out in my head, I have never ever worked on an airplane before. But >> ever since I saw the peit, I have been intrigued by it and the build >> process. I had been lurking on and off here for the past 2 years and >> followed the threads on a limited basis when time permitted. >> >> Now its time to get to getting. I am going to need all the advise I can >> get from basic intro stuff to the complex so any words of advise, well I >> am all ears. I don't expect to jump right in with both feet at first but >> intend to take the slower route of one learning and construction one >> assembly at a time. At least that's the plan so far. >> >> My last project was the complete rebuild of a 1983 Jeep CJ7 from the >> ground up the project took 5 years but its on the road so I supposes >> there is something to be said for tenacity. I am not bad with wrenches >> but have much to learn about wood , cloth and such. I suppose all in due >> time! >> >> I hade the opportunity to speak with another builder last night from >> Arizona, he asked how big I was, I gave him the basic dimensions, he said >> I had better consider adding a few inches to the width of the cockpit >> section, I am not certain how that's going to happen, so if anyone has >> been faced with that or a krash weight reduction plan I again am really >> interested , especially in the preplanning stages. Lots easier to build >> in the change from the start of the build than to go making after the >> fact modifications. >> >> Well again thanks for any help , words of wisdom and advise you are able >> to offer as I continue to study and research. >> >> John Recine >> newby builder > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:56 AM PST US From: javier cruz Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: you seen one wing, you seen em' both --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: javier cruz Hi Michael How are you? Michael, on your wing pic i see one piece of wood all on the wing top so another one on the bottom top, just i don't remember see it on the plans, Javier Cruz Waiting for spare time for finish thePiet ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:25 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: planning advice of materials and rationale Hi gang Although still in the planning stages and its time to make some tool up decisions here for planning purposes, First choice is wood vs metal tube any opinions. Metal tube as spec 1025, is that seamless or does it matter, and has anyone used 4130? Since I already have stick welding experience, out of practice but experience nonetheless, I would have to rate my metal working skills as being better than my wood working skills, each have are in need of improvement. I have a friend that's a woodworker and is willing to help in the wood phases from beginning with locating and selection of large spruce rough cut timber material and mill it to dimensional lumber in finished sizes. So I have some expertise resources available for the expert wood working aspects. What are your recommendations and experience with metal vs wood and what determined you selection in of materials, good and bad. I look forward to your learned advise. All is on schedule will be ordering the books soon, along with getting to the EAA fly in breakfast tomorrow at LNS which I fully expect to file the application with the local chapter and see who's building a peit. Thanks John ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:54 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: planning advice of materials and rationale John, Wood fuselages outnumber steel fuselages by a great margin. That may be a telling comment. Also, when comparing woodworking vs. steelworking remember these three words: STEEL FIGHTS BACK! Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: planning advice of materials and rationale Hi gang Although still in the planning stages and its time to make some tool up decisions here for planning purposes, First choice is wood vs metal tube any opinions. Metal tube as spec 1025, is that seamless or does it matter, and has anyone used 4130? Since I already have stick welding experience, out of practice but experience nonetheless, I would have to rate my metal working skills as being better than my wood working skills, each have are in need of improvement. I have a friend that's a woodworker and is willing to help in the wood phases from beginning with locating and selection of large spruce rough cut timber material and mill it to dimensional lumber in finished sizes. So I have some expertise resources available for the expert wood working aspects. What are your recommendations and experience with metal vs wood and what determined you selection in of materials, good and bad. I look forward to your learned advise. All is on schedule will be ordering the books soon, along with getting to the EAA fly in breakfast tomorrow at LNS which I fully expect to file the application with the local chapter and see who's building a peit. Thanks John ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows From: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Please send me pictures,thanks. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: May 22, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrows --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Harvey asks- >I need to know if there are plates below the cylinder jugs on the bottom? Well, when I got 41CC it didn't have the intercylinder baffles but I've since added them. I heard varying stories (they're absolutely essential; they didn't use them on J-3s; you don't need them if you hang the cylinders out in the breeze, etc. etc.) and they were so simple to make and install that it was a no-brainer. Templates for the little baffles are in Tony Bingelis' books and they are easily formed from soft aluminum sheet and held in place with some all-thread with metal locknuts, or even safety wired in place. I can take pictures of mine if anyone is interested. There is a top and a bottom baffle on each side, mine are held together sandwiching the cylinder gap space. They force the cooling air to stay around the cylinders rather than "jumping out" the gap between the cylinders without cooling the rearmost cylinders. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:06 PM PST US From: TBYH@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jenny style Landing Gear Many thanks to Mike, Cliff and Jack for the landing gear advice...that's what I was thinking... that by making the struts tight against the lower longerons that would help distribute loads -- but glad I checked with the Pros on this list. I've been busy, too. Got all the tail feathers finished -- just need to install hinges. Fuselage structure is finished and waiting for landing gear. There's plenty yet to keep me busy, but already looking forward to Brodhead 2006 and seeing all the planes and fellow Pieters. Actually I've been looking forward to it since about a day after Brodhead 2005! Many thanks again for the guidance -- you guys are invaluable! Fred B. La Crosse, WI