Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:36 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/05/06 (Graham and Robyn)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/05/06 (Jack T. Textor)
3. 04:42 AM - Re: Kevlar Drag Wires (Tom Bernie)
4. 05:30 AM - Re: carb (Phillips, Jack)
5. 11:51 AM - Re: Wing root rib (Barry Davis)
6. 12:54 PM - Model-A carb mounting (Carl Vought)
7. 12:59 PM - Re: Wing root rib (Jack T. Textor)
8. 02:27 PM - Re: Wing root rib (walt evans)
9. 05:54 PM - Re: carb (Dick Navratil)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/05/06 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Graham and Robyn" <grhewitt@globaldial.com>
Would some one give me the recent web site listing Piet Accidents &
Incidents,
Thanks Graham Hewitt
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/05/06
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of
the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text
editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.200
6-06-05.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.200
6-06-05.txt
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/05/06: 5
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:43 AM - carb (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 07:00 AM - Wing root rib (Egan, John)
3. 08:55 AM - Re: Kevlar Drag Wires (Tom Bernie)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: carb (Gary Gower)
5. 10:16 AM - Re: carb (Barry Davis)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:43:17 AM PST US
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>I dont know if there are this type of spring shops in USA
No, Gary... so I'd better go down to Guadalajara to get a spring ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 07:00:30 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing root rib
From: "Egan, John" <jegan@kcc.com>
Hello all,
I believe I am 99% finished with the wing construction as I have the
entire wing and ailerons assembled, glued, and sanded, with the
exception of the wing root rib installation. Over the weekend, I dry
=66it the plywood pieces and the flat steel strap wing brackets on the
root ends of the spars. I have the spars, plywood and fittings drilled
and loosely bolted but not glued. I will need to add a final rib near
the end of the spars and I have been hesitating on this. My question
is:
Does the end rib get the vertical member cut away where it would overlap
the flat steel wing bracket=3F When I made the rib, I offset the
vertical
member the same thickness as the plywood with the intent to cut away the
area for the steel strap. A person could also build that first rib with
a solid sheet of plywood on the outside to have a nice flat surface to
glue the fabric to. I'm sure there are many good solutions, and I am
interested to hear some other options. After I get this last rib on, I
can then add varnish.
Thanks,
John
Greenville, Wi.
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may
contai
n
privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt
from
disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error,
please
inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy
any
printed copy. Thank you.
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 08:55:19 AM PST US
From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag Wires
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Tom Bernie"
<tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Hans,
I got the following reply from Phillystran --
"There are 2 versions of the 2100 product:
The original version is the HPTG 2100 made from parallel Kevlar 49 yarn
with en extruded PE jacket. The modulus for that item would be
17.5x10E6 psi (conditioned rope value).
In 1990 a second generation product was introduced known as HPTG2100I.
Also made from the Kevlar 49 but a stranded resin impregnated rope with
extruded PU jacket. Modulus is 15.0x10E6 psi.
The HPTG-I version is an inventoried item whereas the HPTG is made to
order with a 5K min.
Kenneth Knight
PHILLYSTRAN, INC.
Manager, Industrial Sales
215-368-6611 *107
fax: 215-362-7956
cell: 267-614-5623
kknight@phillystran.com"
Is 15.0x10E6 psi a useful value in determining the cable usefulness?
Regards,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag Wires
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Tom,
I googled the elasticity modulus
Kevlar 49 has a elasticity modulus of 120 Gpa
Carbon Steel has a elasticity modulus of 210 Gpa
The higher the number the lower the elasticity.
Kevlar has a higher fatigue life than steel, due to being more elastic.
Probably Kevlar would be more suited as use in bracing wires, where
there
is a lot of vibration, or control cables where there is a lot of
bending.
Inside the wing with no turbulence and no bending I would not use it,
the
additional stretching might exceed the limits of the wood structure.
Then again the certified aircraft builders Boeing and Airbus seem to use
Kevlar in secondary structures, why not in primary ?
Hans
Tom Bernie
<tsbernie@earthli
nk.net>
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag
Wires
06/02/2006 02:38
PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tom Bernie
<tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Hans,
The tower instructions call for tensioning to 15% breaking strength then
under that load it relaxes to 10% over a period of 30 days. Tower
builders
seem to consider it equivalent to galvanized. I'm trying to get
elasticity
or dymanic stretching data. It weighs nothing and at .22" dia and 2100#
breaking strength, it costs $.59 @ foot.
Regards,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
>From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>Sent: Jun 2, 2006 1:55 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Cc: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com,
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag Wires
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
>Too elastic ?
>
>Hans
>
>
> "Tom Bernie"
> <tsbernie@earthli
> nk.net>
To
> Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> owner-pietenpol-l
cc
> ist-server@matron
> ics.com
Subject
> Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag
Wires
>
> 06/02/2006 11:22
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
>
>
>Folks,
>
>
>Anybody have any thoughts about the advisability of using Kevlar cable
>(Phillystran) for Drag/Anti Drag wires? On the surface, the physical
>properties look great.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Tom Bernie
>
>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:36:41 AM PST US
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carb
Sure, Welcome! Any time will be great.
Also if you like, I can get you a couple and send them to you. Just
need to
get a feeling of the spring this next Saturday at the Club, The spring
shop is
about 5 blocks from my factory, so no big deal to get it.
There they made the spring that we used for towing in my hang gliding
days, (20
years ago) also the springs for my Ladder Pou landing gear and lots of
others.
Just go there and tell them how much force needed and how much the
travel of
the spring. two or 3 days later is ready.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
>I dont know if there are this type of spring shops in USA
No, Gary... so I'd better go down to Guadalajara to get a spring ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 10:16:16 AM PST US
From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carb
I know quiet a few pilots that have the "spring" on their carbs. I
thought about it and came up with a few observations.
I think the cable would probably break when you PULL the throttle to
closed and put tension on the cable. I don't think it would make sense
for a cable to break by PUSHING it through the jacket. If it broke
inside the jacket, it seems that it would still push through, but might
be harder than normal due to frayed ends. This would leave the throttle
on Open.
If the cable came off the carb lever by breakage or the bolt wearing
thru or falling out, then adding a very soft spring would be the best
idea in the world and you would be patting yourself on the back for a
long time after landing successfully.
If the spring is heavy, you will experience throttle creep and will
be constantly adjusting the throttle, it also puts a constant strain on
the cable. Look at the hardware stores or on the internet and look for a
spring with at least 1/2" diameter and very soft and pulls very easily.
If the ends are not long enough, an extender can be made from med to
heavy safety tie wire and anchored somewhere on the engine, not to the
motor mount to isolate constant vibration.
My 172 has one, but the 150 that I own with a partner does not. Go
figure. Our Piets are not flying yet. We just replaced the cable on the
150 and it had several thousand hours on it. It was not having a
problem, but replacement seemed like cheap insurance, especially if our
kids take it out for a spin.
If you ever feel a binding in the throttle, even just once, it is
time to take a look at that cable. By being a stranded cable, usually
one or two strands will break first and cause some friction. Consider
this your fair warning.
You need to have in mind a plan to cope with this type of emergency.
Either turn the engine switch on and off and blow the ends out of the
mufflers or get into a safe position at the airport, shut the engine
down and do a dead stick landing. Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb
Has anyone installed a spring on the Stromberg carb to bring it to
full open in case of a linkage failure in flight? I went out flying
today, using a runway with no good emergency landing spots on the
departure end. Sitting around the hangar chatting later, that subject
came up and it sounded like a good idea.
Dick N.
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/05/06 |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
That would be Chuck G's, www.nx770cg.com. Great site!
Jack Textor
Would some one give me the recent web site listing Piet Accidents &
Incidents,
Thanks Graham Hewitt
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Kevlar Drag Wires |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Group,
I received this generous and informative email.
"I'm not on the Pietenpol List, but I am on the Kolb List, and went
browsing this morning. Saw this discussion and your email address and if
you care to pass this along, feel free to do so.
I am both an aerospace structural analyst and a sailor, as well as
owning a Cessna Skywagon and Kolb Firestar.
In the multihull sailing world, we often use what we call the
"high-tech" ropes for rigging.
1. They all have varying degrees of UV resistance. Covering extends
that. With no data available, I'd guess that the UV protection for the
wing covering would suffice for the drag and anti-drag cables, if you
used Kevlar or other ropes for that, and especially if you used covered
rope.
2. The applicable ropes are Vectran, Dyneema, or one of the aramids like
Kevlar (another is Technora). They all have roughly the Young's modulus
of about five million psi, so their area will have to be increased to
have the same stiffness performance as steel cable. Interestingly
enough, steel cable has an effective Young's modulus of about 11 million
- so if the rope is twice the area, or about 50% bigger nominal
diameter, it's equivalent stiffness to the steel cable. Remember that
solid tie rods have a Young's modulus of about 29 million psi, so if
you're replacing those, you'll need about 2 1/2 times the diameter for
the rope.
3. All these ropes creep. The initial creep is the most severe. People
typically make the end terminations and then apply a large load for
about 12 hours to prestretch them. If the prestretch tension is greater
than the limit load (limit load is the maximum load the rope will ever
see in service, without any safety factors - the real load) it should
not creep much after that in that load range. Dyneema has the most
creep, the aramids next, and Vectran the least.
4. The various rope manufacturers publish splicing information, and you
can buy "sailmaker's thimbles" for the ends. The "Brummel" splice is
easy to make, and makes a neat eye at the end. Knots, in general, fail
at 50% of the ropes breaking load or less. Use only splices for the rope
cables you make.
5. The end terminations, from the eye to the aircraft, can be made by
lashing thin rope multiple times. Get something like 1/16" Vectran
single braid and tie it to the aircraft. Make the rope cable itself with
both eyes spliced in, but make it about six inches short. Lace the small
line from the aircraft through the rope cable eye and back to the
aircraft, repeating several times, and finally pull tight and tie a knot
in it to terminate it. Since each strand of the small rope is only
minimally loaded, the knot is practical.
6. In one case on my trimaran, I placed a turnbuckle between the hull
and the small rope lashing. Once the final knot was made, the turnbuckle
provided adjustment. This might be most suitable for rope cables - and
you could even skip the lashing, with the final assembly being the
aircraft fitting, the rope, and the turnbuckle to the other aircraft
fitting. But the lashing does allow take-up of large gaps.
7. Ensure that you avoid chafe.
8. Sources are www.layline.com, Annapolis Performance Sailing, and West
Marine.
9. Splicing links are: http://www.neropes.com/splice/default.htm
http://www.samsonrope.com/home/recmarine/splicing/index.cfm
http://www.yalecordage.com/html/splicing_instructions.html
Good luck!
David Paule"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Bernie
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag Wires
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Tom Bernie"
<tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Hans,
I got the following reply from Phillystran --
"There are 2 versions of the 2100 product:
The original version is the HPTG 2100 made from parallel Kevlar 49 yarn
with en extruded PE jacket. The modulus for that item would be
17.5x10E6 psi (conditioned rope value).
In 1990 a second generation product was introduced known as HPTG2100I.
Also made from the Kevlar 49 but a stranded resin impregnated rope with
extruded PU jacket. Modulus is 15.0x10E6 psi.
The HPTG-I version is an inventoried item whereas the HPTG is made to
order with a 5K min.
Kenneth Knight
PHILLYSTRAN, INC.
Manager, Industrial Sales
215-368-6611 *107
fax: 215-362-7956
cell: 267-614-5623
kknight@phillystran.com"
Is 15.0x10E6 psi a useful value in determining the cable usefulness?
Regards,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag Wires
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Tom,
I googled the elasticity modulus
Kevlar 49 has a elasticity modulus of 120 Gpa
Carbon Steel has a elasticity modulus of 210 Gpa
The higher the number the lower the elasticity.
Kevlar has a higher fatigue life than steel, due to being more elastic.
Probably Kevlar would be more suited as use in bracing wires, where
there
is a lot of vibration, or control cables where there is a lot of
bending.
Inside the wing with no turbulence and no bending I would not use it,
the
additional stretching might exceed the limits of the wood structure.
Then again the certified aircraft builders Boeing and Airbus seem to use
Kevlar in secondary structures, why not in primary ?
Hans
Tom Bernie
<tsbernie@earthli
nk.net>
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag
Wires
06/02/2006 02:38
PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tom Bernie
<tsbernie@earthlink.net>
Hans,
The tower instructions call for tensioning to 15% breaking strength then
under that load it relaxes to 10% over a period of 30 days. Tower
builders
seem to consider it equivalent to galvanized. I'm trying to get
elasticity
or dymanic stretching data. It weighs nothing and at .22" dia and 2100#
breaking strength, it costs $.59 @ foot.
Regards,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
>From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>Sent: Jun 2, 2006 1:55 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Cc: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com,
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag Wires
>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
>Too elastic ?
>
>Hans
>
>
> "Tom Bernie"
> <tsbernie@earthli
> nk.net>
To
> Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> owner-pietenpol-l
cc
> ist-server@matron
> ics.com
Subject
> Pietenpol-List: Kevlar Drag
Wires
>
> 06/02/2006 11:22
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
>
>
>Folks,
>
>
>Anybody have any thoughts about the advisability of using Kevlar cable
>(Phillystran) for Drag/Anti Drag wires? On the surface, the physical
>properties look great.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Tom Bernie
>
>
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
When I was at Brodhead last year, and preparing on Sunday to fly to the
"other fly-in" to the northeast, John Hoffmann gave me a prop and I
pushed the throttle forward to taxi to the runway. Nothing. The engine
sat there at idle. I shut it down and we investigated and found the
bolt attaching the throttle levers to the cable had come loose, so it
can and will happen. In my case, to prevent that occurance it would
require a pretty heavy spring at the carburetor.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Davis
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carb
I know quiet a few pilots that have the "spring" on their carbs. I
thought about it and came up with a few observations.
I think the cable would probably break when you PULL the throttle to
closed and put tension on the cable. I don't think it would make sense
for a cable to break by PUSHING it through the jacket. If it broke
inside the jacket, it seems that it would still push through, but might
be harder than normal due to frayed ends. This would leave the throttle
on Open.
If the cable came off the carb lever by breakage or the bolt wearing
thru or falling out, then adding a very soft spring would be the best
idea in the world and you would be patting yourself on the back for a
long time after landing successfully.
If the spring is heavy, you will experience throttle creep and will
be constantly adjusting the throttle, it also puts a constant strain on
the cable. Look at the hardware stores or on the internet and look for a
spring with at least 1/2" diameter and very soft and pulls very easily.
If the ends are not long enough, an extender can be made from med to
heavy safety tie wire and anchored somewhere on the engine, not to the
motor mount to isolate constant vibration.
My 172 has one, but the 150 that I own with a partner does not. Go
figure. Our Piets are not flying yet. We just replaced the cable on the
150 and it had several thousand hours on it. It was not having a
problem, but replacement seemed like cheap insurance, especially if our
kids take it out for a spin.
If you ever feel a binding in the throttle, even just once, it is
time to take a look at that cable. By being a stranded cable, usually
one or two strands will break first and cause some friction. Consider
this your fair warning.
You need to have in mind a plan to cope with this type of emergency.
Either turn the engine switch on and off and blow the ends out of the
mufflers or get into a safe position at the airport, shut the engine
down and do a dead stick landing. Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil <mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb
Has anyone installed a spring on the Stromberg carb to bring it
to full open in case of a linkage failure in flight? I went out flying
today, using a runway with no good emergency landing spots on the
departure end. Sitting around the hangar chatting later, that subject
came up and it sounded like a good idea.
Dick N.
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing root rib |
Yes, the uprights must be ground to fit over the wing attach fittings.
You can add another one beside what's left after it is on the wing. As
for the solid plywood cap, it is not necessary and will add weight. The
fabric will be glued to the piece of ply on top and bottom of the end
ribs and that is enough.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Egan, John
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing root rib
Hello all,
I believe I am 99% finished with the wing construction as I have the
entire wing and ailerons assembled, glued, and sanded, with the
exception of the wing root rib installation. Over the weekend, I dry
fit the plywood pieces and the flat steel strap wing brackets on the
root ends of the spars. I have the spars, plywood and fittings drilled
and loosely bolted but not glued. I will need to add a final rib near
the end of the spars and I have been hesitating on this. My question
is:
Does the end rib get the vertical member cut away where it would
overlap the flat steel wing bracket? When I made the rib, I offset the
vertical member the same thickness as the plywood with the intent to cut
away the area for the steel strap. A person could also build that first
rib with a solid sheet of plywood on the outside to have a nice flat
surface to glue the fabric to. I'm sure there are many good solutions,
and I am interested to hear some other options. After I get this last
rib on, I can then add varnish.
Thanks,
John
Greenville, Wi.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may
contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is
exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in
error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail
and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Model-A carb mounting |
I apologize in advance for the lengthy post, but I'm working on my
Model-A's intake manifold and this question keeps coming up.The plans
call for the removal of a wedge from the intake manifold of about 3/16"
which introduces a "tilt" in the carb's "working angle" of some 7
degrees. I don't understand why. Maybe someone out there can enlighten
me...I hope so. The engine was designed to go into the automobile frame
with the PTO (transmission) end of the engine lower than the "front" of
the engine by three degrees. The lubrication of the stock engine
(largely gravity fed) was designed to function at that engine attitude.
Notwithstanding the modifications that have been made to the engine's
lubrication system for Pietenpol application, it makes good sense to
install it in the airplane at the angle it was originally designed to
operate at...which Mr. Pietenpol did. The engine bearers introduce a
nose-down "tilt" of one inch in 22 inches or a little over 2.6
degrees.This being the case, it would seem that in lever flight, there
would be no interest at all in inclining the carb from it's original
factory position. When the airplane is resting on it's gear, however,
depending upon the gear configuration, it's in a nose-high attitude of
some twelve or so degrees. The way the carb is "tilted" does tend to
reduce this angle somewhat, making the float sit at a more normal angle.
But is this important enough to upset the mounting of the carb at cruise
attitude? Without the "tilt", would a nose-high tilt of 12 degrees
cause the carb to leak gas when it's on the ground? Somebody please help
me out here...Thanks...Carl Vought
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
John or Barry....
Would you have a picture of what you are describing?
Jack Textor
________________________________
Yes, the uprights must be ground to fit over the wing attach fittings.
You can add another one beside what's left after it is on the wing. As
for the solid plywood cap, it is not necessary and will add weight. The
fabric will be glued to the piece of ply on top and bottom of the end
ribs and that is enough.
Barry
Hello all,
I believe I am 99% finished with the wing construction as I have
the entire wing and ailerons assembled, glued, and sanded, with the
exception of the wing root rib installation. Over the weekend, I dry
fit the plywood pieces and the flat steel strap wing brackets on the
root ends of the spars. I have the spars, plywood and fittings drilled
and loosely bolted but not glued. I will need to add a final rib near
the end of the spars and I have been hesitating on this. My question
is:
Does the end rib get the vertical member cut away where it would
overlap the flat steel wing bracket? When I made the rib, I offset the
vertical member the same thickness as the plywood with the intent to cut
away the area for the steel strap. A person could also build that first
rib with a solid sheet of plywood on the outside to have a nice flat
surface to glue the fabric to. I'm sure there are many good solutions,
and I am interested to hear some other options. After I get this last
rib on, I can then add varnish.
Thanks,
John
Greenville, Wi.
________________________________
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may
contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is
exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in
error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail
and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.
________________________________
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing root rib |
John,
Yeah, you have to cut away some stuff. Just remember that the verticals
weren't even on the original prints. They were added so to make it easy
to get all the ribs lined up evenly. I didn't cap the end of the rib
with ply, no need and adds weight. It does need the extra structure
pieces which the root and the tip ribs have. Also the root ribs need
the 2" wide ply on top and bottom to prevent distortion from the fabric.
I covered the wing root with fabric with an overlap on the 2" ply, the
brought the top and bottom fabric over the ends to get the required 1"
overlap.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Egan, John
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing root rib
Hello all,
I believe I am 99% finished with the wing construction as I have the
entire wing and ailerons assembled, glued, and sanded, with the
exception of the wing root rib installation. Over the weekend, I dry
fit the plywood pieces and the flat steel strap wing brackets on the
root ends of the spars. I have the spars, plywood and fittings drilled
and loosely bolted but not glued. I will need to add a final rib near
the end of the spars and I have been hesitating on this. My question
is:
Does the end rib get the vertical member cut away where it would
overlap the flat steel wing bracket? When I made the rib, I offset the
vertical member the same thickness as the plywood with the intent to cut
away the area for the steel strap. A person could also build that first
rib with a solid sheet of plywood on the outside to have a nice flat
surface to glue the fabric to. I'm sure there are many good solutions,
and I am interested to hear some other options. After I get this last
rib on, I can then add varnish.
Thanks,
John
Greenville, Wi.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may
contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is
exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in
error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail
and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Jack
I was hoping you would respond. I was thinking of your problem at
Brodhead when I posted. If you would have lost that bolt in flight
maybe even a lighter spring could have given you power to find a landing
site??? If the bolt had departed as in your case on start up and the
spring opened the carb before start, the idler jets should be cut off
and the engine hopefully would not start.
Just a few thoughts
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: carb
When I was at Brodhead last year, and preparing on Sunday to fly to
the "other fly-in" to the northeast, John Hoffmann gave me a prop and I
pushed the throttle forward to taxi to the runway. Nothing. The engine
sat there at idle. I shut it down and we investigated and found the
bolt attaching the throttle levers to the cable had come loose, so it
can and will happen. In my case, to prevent that occurance it would
require a pretty heavy spring at the carburetor.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Davis
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 1:14 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: carb
I know quiet a few pilots that have the "spring" on their carbs. I
thought about it and came up with a few observations.
I think the cable would probably break when you PULL the throttle
to closed and put tension on the cable. I don't think it would make
sense for a cable to break by PUSHING it through the jacket. If it broke
inside the jacket, it seems that it would still push through, but might
be harder than normal due to frayed ends. This would leave the throttle
on Open.
If the cable came off the carb lever by breakage or the bolt
wearing thru or falling out, then adding a very soft spring would be the
best idea in the world and you would be patting yourself on the back for
a long time after landing successfully.
If the spring is heavy, you will experience throttle creep and
will be constantly adjusting the throttle, it also puts a constant
strain on the cable. Look at the hardware stores or on the internet and
look for a spring with at least 1/2" diameter and very soft and pulls
very easily. If the ends are not long enough, an extender can be made
from med to heavy safety tie wire and anchored somewhere on the engine,
not to the motor mount to isolate constant vibration.
My 172 has one, but the 150 that I own with a partner does not.
Go figure. Our Piets are not flying yet. We just replaced the cable on
the 150 and it had several thousand hours on it. It was not having a
problem, but replacement seemed like cheap insurance, especially if our
kids take it out for a spin.
If you ever feel a binding in the throttle, even just once, it is
time to take a look at that cable. By being a stranded cable, usually
one or two strands will break first and cause some friction. Consider
this your fair warning.
You need to have in mind a plan to cope with this type of
emergency. Either turn the engine switch on and off and blow the ends
out of the mufflers or get into a safe position at the airport, shut the
engine down and do a dead stick landing. Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb
Has anyone installed a spring on the Stromberg carb to bring it to
full open in case of a linkage failure in flight? I went out flying
today, using a runway with no good emergency landing spots on the
departure end. Sitting around the hangar chatting later, that subject
came up and it sounded like a good idea.
Dick N.
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|