Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 06/15/06


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:17 AM - Re: aging eyesight aid ()
     2. 04:17 AM - Re: Private airstrip for Piet. ()
     3. 04:24 AM - Re: Private airstrip for Piet. ()
     4. 04:55 AM - gap sealing tailfeathers (Michael D Cuy)
     5. 05:06 AM - Re: Private airstrip for Piet. (Gene Beenenga)
     6. 05:22 AM - Build a Piet in two evenings (Bill Church)
     7. 08:32 AM - Re: Private airstrip for Piet. (jimboyer@hughes.net)
     8. 08:40 AM - Re: Build a Piet in two evenings ()
     9. 11:20 AM - Re: Build a Piet in two evenings (Barry Davis)
    10. 11:35 AM - Re: Private airstrip for Piet. (Barry Davis)
    11. 11:51 AM - Re: Build a Piet in two evenings (Bill Church)
    12. 02:30 PM - Elevator travel (Don Emch)
    13. 02:54 PM - Re: Elevator travel (Mark Blackwell)
    14. 04:43 PM - Re: Elevator travel (walt evans)
    15. 07:42 PM - Re: Private airstrip for Piet. (Dick Navratil)
    16. 09:58 PM - Covering (Peter W Johnson)
    17. 10:26 PM - Re: Covering (DJ Vegh)
    18. 10:29 PM - Re: Covering (Rcaprd@AOL.COM)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:17:03 AM PST US
    Subject: aging eyesight aid
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca> Wouldn't it be better just to wear bifocal glass's.I have trifocal and I may have a problem with them under my goggles.Have to see about that but I'm sure I can find either a small enough pair to go under my goggles or bigger goggles.Either way I'll work something out. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: June 15, 2006 2:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: aging eyesight aid --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> I assumed one would take it off the base and stick it to the face. Right? :-) Clif > > The magnet holder would definitely give you much better Compass read-outs > :-) > > Hans


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:17:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Private airstrip for Piet.
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Yes sir I have sealed off the gaps in both the elevator and the rudder.Thanks for all the advice,appreciate it. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: June 15, 2006 1:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. I agree with Chuck and Greg about the elevator travle. No stops are advisable there. Sealing the gaps definetly changes the performance drastically. Gets the tail up faster and increases airspeed approx 2 mph. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal <mailto:gcardinal@mn.rr.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. I agree with Chuck about 10 degrees being insufficient. NX18235 has no stops on the elevator. The DAR didn't have a problem with it. I'm finding that the elevator remains fully effective all the way through the flare and touchdown. The elevator / stabilizer gap is quite small which helps with elevator controllability. Dick Navratil can speak a little about sealing the elevator gap. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. In a message dated 6/14/2006 12:17:30 PM Central Standard Time, harvey.rule@bell.ca writes: I was talking to another Piet owner out of Carp during our Flyin last weekend and he mentioned that the elevator is constricted to 10degrees up elevator.I have no constriction on mine at all.It will come up to 45 degrees when pulled all the way.Should I have constriction on this or is it just personal preference? Ten Degrees is not nearly enough up flipper (elevator). There is no way you would ever be able to do a full stall landing, or use it as aerodynamic braking. Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:24:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Private airstrip for Piet.
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    My plans say 1129lbs;maybe because of the Grega mods ,it's heavier. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Sent: June 14, 2006 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. In a message dated 6/14/2006 10:38:01 AM Central Standard Time, harvey.rule@bell.ca writes: Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the max weight for a Piet supposed to be 1129lbs? Bernard H. Pietenpol listed the gross weight at 1050 lbs. Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:55:27 AM PST US
    From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
    Subject: gap sealing tailfeathers
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov> I have flown four Piets, none of which had tailfeather gap seals and I found them to be very responsive in control response. Hearing Dick N. say that sealing back there makes a big difference makes me second-guess this though. In any event, the elevator and rudder on a Piet, un-sealed have more response than any tin can you might have flown before, hands down. Gap sealing the ailerons, however, is a different story: those need seals or very tight hinge lines. Congratulations to Greg Cardinal for soloing his and Dale's beautiful Air Camper and for Dale getting to experience flying in the front seat of all his and Greg's handiwork. Good on ya, as they say in Australia. Mike C.


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:06:03 AM PST US
    From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Private airstrip for Piet.
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd@earthlink.net> Scott, what happened to the Corvair? Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Robison Family <robisonfamily@consolidated.net> >Sent: Jun 14, 2006 9:40 AM >To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. > >I've just purchased land that measures 924' X 236'. Do you guys thinnk that this will be long enough for a runway if the approach is unobstructed? I'd like to use a C75 or C85 for power on my Piet. Thoughts suggestions? We are about 100' above sea level. > >Thanks, > >Scott Robison >Central Illinois


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:22:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Build a Piet in two evenings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    I don't understand why some of us seem to take so long to build our planes. I just built a complete Pietenpol over the course of the last two evenings. I used maple instead of the traditional spruce for construction. Oh, and instead of 30 ft wingspan, I made it 10 1/2 inches. Actually, I made a solid wood model Air Camper as a gift for a young lad. I have a second one in the works (for myself), but mine will have slightly less "beefy" struts, and I'll probably add the flying wires too. I've attached a few pictures, for the equivalent of a few thousand words. And for the record, I've been "working" on my real Air Camper for a year and a half, and I have my ribs built... Bill C


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:32:16 AM PST US
    From: "jimboyer@hughes.net" <jimboyer@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: Private airstrip for Piet.
    So Dick, how did you seal the gaps in the elevators? Did you also seal the gap in the vertical fin/rudder? Thanks, Jim


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:40:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Build a Piet in two evenings
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    Could you carve out a full size one?;-) Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: June 15, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build a Piet in two evenings I don't understand why some of us seem to take so long to build our planes. I just built a complete Pietenpol over the course of the last two evenings. I used maple instead of the traditional spruce for construction. Oh, and instead of 30 ft wingspan, I made it 10 1/2 inches. Actually, I made a solid wood model Air Camper as a gift for a young lad. I have a second one in the works (for myself), but mine will have slightly less "beefy" struts, and I'll probably add the flying wires too. I've attached a few pictures, for the equivalent of a few thousand words. And for the record, I've been "working" on my real Air Camper for a year and a half, and I have my ribs built... Bill C


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:20:19 AM PST US
    From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Build a Piet in two evenings
    Hey, I want one, but with a Corvair. Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build a Piet in two evenings I don't understand why some of us seem to take so long to build our planes. I just built a complete Pietenpol over the course of the last two evenings. I used maple instead of the traditional spruce for construction. Oh, and instead of 30 ft wingspan, I made it 10 1/2 inches. Actually, I made a solid wood model Air Camper as a gift for a young lad. I have a second one in the works (for myself), but mine will have slightly less "beefy" struts, and I'll probably add the flying wires too. I've attached a few pictures, for the equivalent of a few thousand words. And for the record, I've been "working" on my real Air Camper for a year and a half, and I have my ribs built... Bill C


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:35:37 AM PST US
    From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Private airstrip for Piet.
    Jack That reminds me of the time another Piet builder and myself flew our L-2 Taylorcraft home from an Airshow at Dobbins AFB in Atlanta where it was on display. It was about 98 degrees and the runway was about 10,000 feet long. We had no trouble leaving the airport and the Atlanta area, but back to Carrollton, we were following Interstate 20 to the west full power and all the windows closed just to maintain altitude. The Carrollton airport is just past a ridge and its elevation is a little higher than Atlanta. We found ourselves trying to make a decision to fly UNDER or try to make it over the Villa Rica exit bridge on I-20 which is right on top of that ridge. It was that close. I'm not going to confess what we did (in writing), but its a good story anyway. Barry Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:17 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. If the approaches are truly unobstructed (no obstructions over about 10' tall), you should be able to operate from a strip of that size safely. My Piet is heavy (745 lbs empty) and it regularly can get off the ground in under 500' with no wind. Then it chugs along, climbing at between 0 and 400 fpm, depending on load and temperature (density altitude). At high loads and high density altitudes, its climb ranges from non-existent to pitiful. I will never forget the trip to Brodhead last year where I landed for fuel at a 4,000' paved runway in West Virginia and almost bought the farm on takeoff. Temperature was 91 F, density altitude was about 4000' and with full fuel and all the stuff I was carrying, I was at gross weight (1150 lbs). The runway was 4,000 feet long, with a 200 foot tall hill at the south end. Of course, the wind was from the south. I got off the ground in about 400 feet and climbed to about 20' (the upper edge of ground effect). It simply would not climb any higher and the hill was approaching fast. I was able to find a gap in the trees on the left side of the runway near the south end, and wove through the trees (whose tops were higher than I was) until I flew over a cliff above a large lake. I circled three laps around that lake before I got high enough to get over that hill and continue on my course. I did find much later that my ignition timing was wrong and I was only getting about 55 hp out of my A65 Continental. Since I tuned the engine up climb on a hot day has improved from non-existent to merely awful. Landing on a 900' strip should prove to be no problem. I regularly get mine down and stopped in under 500' Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robison Family Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:41 AM To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. I've just purchased land that measures 924' X 236'. Do you guys thinnk that this will be long enough for a runway if the approach is unobstructed? I'd like to use a C75 or C85 for power on my Piet. Thoughts suggestions? We are about 100' above sea level. Thanks, Scott Robison Central Illinois Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm) _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:51:36 AM PST US
    Subject: Build a Piet in two evenings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Barry, I just used this drawing: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/pasture%20pilots%20pride4. jpg that Jim Markle posted to the file section of Mykitplane.com (thanks, Jim). It's the short fuse, with a model A engine. I made two sets of parts when I did the cutting (just in case I screwed up something), so the parts are there to make a second one. But, once I saw how nice the little thing turned out I thought I should have one that's more close to what I'm building. And in my case it's the long fuselage, and probably Corvair. So I'm going to make one of those too. I'll post some more pics when I'm done. Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: June 15, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build a Piet in two evenings Hey, I want one, but with a Corvair. Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church <mailto:eng@canadianrogers.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build a Piet in two evenings I don't understand why some of us seem to take so long to build our planes. I just built a complete Pietenpol over the course of the last two evenings. I used maple instead of the traditional spruce for construction. Oh, and instead of 30 ft wingspan, I made it 10 1/2 inches. Actually, I made a solid wood model Air Camper as a gift for a young lad. I have a second one in the works (for myself), but mine will have slightly less "beefy" struts, and I'll probably add the flying wires too. I've attached a few pictures, for the equivalent of a few thousand words. And for the record, I've been "working" on my real Air Camper for a year and a half, and I have my ribs built... Bill C


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:30:58 PM PST US
    Subject: Elevator travel
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> Hi guys, Speaking of elevator travel... Last Sept. on the night before I flew mine for the first time I invited Frank Pavliga(Sky Gypsy) and Forrest Barber (the ex T-Craft test pilot and pilot of many flying machines) out to inspect the airplane one more time with me. As Forrest walked around the plane he stopped and lifted the elevators. He said "You have too much up elevator, you could get yourself into too deep of a stall with that". Frank agreed. I already had a stop on it at around 30 deg. up. I asked how do I know how much and he held it up again and said "about that much". So I measured it (forget the deg., but I can measure again) and reworked the stop that night. Wouldn't ya know the full stall landing comes just before the stop is reached. Same at altitude when doing a stall. I suppose a careless pilot could get into trouble with too much 'up', but it's not like you go flying around moving the stick through the full motion fore and aft. If you ever read "Stick and Rudder", Langswieche really speaks of the elevator position controlling the stall. The Ercoupe is stall/spin proof because the elevator up travel is limited, although I flew one that would stall because of poor rigging, not good without rudder pedals. I'll try to get to the airport and measure my "up", although it may be a little different for each plane. Don E. NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41302#41302


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:54:59 PM PST US
    From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Elevator travel
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958@verizon.net> > Rudder", Langswieche really speaks of the elevator position controlling > the stall. The Ercoupe is stall/spin proof because the elevator up travel > is limited, although I flew one that would stall because of poor rigging, > not good without rudder pedals. I'll try to get to the airport and > measure my "up", although it may be a little different for each plane. > Don E. > NX899DE Don the Ercoupe as you say is limited in the up travel of the elevator and is in theory "characteristically incapable of a full stall" therefore can not spin. But remember accelerated stalls. Even the old Ercoupe shouldn't be taken for granted. If you do manage to get one in a stall, if its rigged properly it should be cordinated so both wings in theory should stall at the same time. In theroy neither side should fall off. How many out there after this length of time are in perfect rig though. > Just as a curious fact. How many of you knew that at one time an Ercoupe could be order from the Sears an Roebuck catalog for $995 each Mark


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:43:14 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Elevator travel
    --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net> Don, Isn't it great to have experienced people around that want to help?? There are so many basic concepts of flying that they discovered years ago, that we as newer builders just don't know. That's why its great to have people like these around who are willing to help There is NO substitute for experience. I still am amazed at my mentor who knows the right thing , and will never condemn something just because he didn't tell you to do it. Sounds like you have an open mind. That's what it takes to build and fly a safe airplane. Ain't Life Grand!! walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator travel > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> > > Hi guys, > Speaking of elevator travel... Last Sept. on the night before I flew mine > for the first time I invited Frank Pavliga(Sky Gypsy) and Forrest Barber > (the ex T-Craft test pilot and pilot of many flying machines) out to > inspect the airplane one more time with me. As Forrest walked around the > plane he stopped and lifted the elevators. He said "You have too much up > elevator, you could get yourself into too deep of a stall with that". > Frank agreed. I already had a stop on it at around 30 deg. up. I asked > how do I know how much and he held it up again and said "about that much". > So I measured it (forget the deg., but I can measure again) and reworked > the stop that night. Wouldn't ya know the full stall landing comes just > before the stop is reached. Same at altitude when doing a stall. I > suppose a careless pilot could get into trouble with too much 'up', but > it's not like you go flying around moving the stick through the full > motion fore and aft. If you ever read "Stick and! > Rudder", Langswieche really speaks of the elevator position controlling > the stall. The Ercoupe is stall/spin proof because the elevator up travel > is limited, although I flew one that would stall because of poor rigging, > not good without rudder pedals. I'll try to get to the airport and > measure my "up", although it may be a little different for each plane. > Don E. > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41302#41302 > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:42:38 PM PST US
    From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: Private airstrip for Piet.
    I initially used strips of duct tape just to see if there was really going to be a difference. I only sealed the elevator. Recently I cut strips of closed cell foam and installed. My problem had been that if I applied too much power on the take off roll the plane would want to fly before I had enough airspeed. I have 21" motorcycle wheels which makes for a severe angle of attack on the ground. It took a lot of stick pressure to get the tail up. Thats where I notice the biggest difference. I still advance the throttle slowly till I get rollling but the tail comes up much easier. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: jimboyer@hughes.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:29 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Private airstrip for Piet. So Dick, how did you seal the gaps in the elevators? Did you also seal the gap in the vertical fin/rudder? Thanks, Jim


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:58:30 PM PST US
    From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
    Subject: Covering
    Hi Guys, I have just started covering. I have the vertical and horizontal stabilizer complete except for the edge tapes. I have the rudder with the fabric on but now have a problem with the control horn. I have looked thorough the manual and watched the video, (Stits Poly Fibre process) but there is not too much info on how to get round the fittings. Any ideas on how to negotiate the areas around these fittings? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com -- 12/06/2006 -- 12/06/2006


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:26:27 PM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <dj@veghdesign.com>
    Subject: Re: Covering
    this may be of some help http://veghdesign.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/02-19-05.htm DJ Vegh ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering Hi Guys, I have just started covering. I have the vertical and horizontal stabilizer complete except for the edge tapes. I have the rudder with the fabric on but now have a problem with the control horn. I have looked thorough the manual and watched the video, (Stits Poly Fibre process) but there is not too much info on how to get round the fittings. Any ideas on how to negotiate the areas around these fittings? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 12/06/2006 -- 12/06/2006


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:29:35 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@AOL.COM
    Subject: Re: Covering
    In a message dated 6/15/2006 11:59:41 PM Central Standard Time, vk3eka@bigpond.net.au writes: Hi Guys, I have just started covering. I have the vertical and horizontal stabilizer complete except for the edge tapes. I have the rudder with the fabric on but now have a problem with the control horn. I have looked thorough the manual and watched the video, (Stits Poly Fibre process) but there is not too much info on how to get round the fittings. Any ideas on how to negotiate the areas around these fittings? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia In the areas around a fitting, take a sharp hobby knife and make slits in th e shape of an 'X', and allow the fitting to protrude through the fabric. Then carefully cut off the flaps of the 'X', to allow a very tight fitting area around the fitting, even allowing the fabric to creap up around the perimete r of the fitting. Then use poly tac to add a small piece 1 1/2" or 2" of fabric around the fitting with the same type of 'X' slits, but be sure to place the threads of the doubler fabric at a 45=BA angle to the base fabric threads. You can use your iron to blend in the edges of the doubler patch. These pieces of doubler fabric should be added anywhere there is a fitting protruding throug h the fabric, or where there is any type of structure that is touching the fab ric underneath. This keeps the fabric from wearing through when in service. It 's easy enough to get the doubler patch to lay right down to the point where after paint, you can hardly even see it after the paint is applied. As for the edges, I center up the edge tape and go around the entire perimeter, just gluing the center of the edge tape. Then iron it down around the radius to shrink the edge tape as much as possible, then cut slits at the corners or anywhere it goes around a radius, and glue down the slits overlapping the edge tape s o that is 'Out of the Wind'. Use your iron to make it lay down perfectly flat after the dabbing the poly tac underneath. Chuck G. NX770CG




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