Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion chamber (SSchof4277@aol.com)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion chamber ()
3. 04:31 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil ()
4. 05:12 AM - don't add things you don't need (Michael D Cuy)
5. 05:36 AM - to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying (Douwe Blumberg)
6. 05:52 AM - building light (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 09:11 AM - Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying (KMHeide)
8. 10:33 AM - Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying (Jim Ash)
9. 10:36 AM - Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying (Gordon Bowen)
10. 02:55 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion chamber (D.Reid)
11. 03:04 PM - Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 03:17 PM - Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying (Rcaprd@aol.com)
13. 03:27 PM - Re: building light (Rcaprd@aol.com)
14. 08:52 PM - Re: cht thermocouple washer and copper spark plug washer annealing (Paul Carter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
chamber
I flew a Convair 440 with P&W R-2800's and they had water injection but it
was only used during take off, to allow for higher manifold pressures without
detonation. I don't remember if it was pure water or a water / alcohol mix.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
chamber
All this info you guys came back with is amaizing.Here I thought it was
just a myth,thanks for all that,wow you guys really know your stuff!
Do not archive
________________________________
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon
Bowen
Sent: June 28, 2006 4:00 PM
thecombustion chamber
If memory serves me right, the old P-51 and some other piston driven
WWII prop fighters had a water injection system for their fuel. Not
sure about the science but worked for them with RRoyce engines etc..
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Hogan, James <mailto:JHogan@jpmc.org>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning
thecombustion chamber
I have a Saturn that burns lots of oil and I read about pouring
water (about as fast as you would add milk to your coffee) with the
engine running between 2000 and 2500 rpm. The water steam cleans the
combustion chamber and if you pour a little fast it will bog down the
engine a little. I've done this a couple of times (nearly a half
gallon of water the first time) and each time the engine runs
significantly better, stops knocking, and the plugs looked better.
Expect lots of white smoke when/if you do this! I did this knowing I'm
going to need engine work in the near future so I wasn't so concerned.
If you read the DIY section on Saturnfans.com you should find
quite a bit of discussion on their forums.
James H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
harvey.rule@bell.ca
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:12 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
A long time ago some person told me that dripping water
into the mouth of the carburator while the engine is running also cleans
it out.I have never tried this and I'm not even sure it would work.Hell
for all I know it might blow the head of an engine but sometimes these
old guys have some pretty weird ideas that work.Anybody out there ever
heard of this procedure or am I just blown smoke here?
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: June 28, 2006 11:38 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a
warning from others at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does
not mix well with fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas.
Some of the Cub pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused
some crashes by clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before
fueling. I will pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for
unmixed oil before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to
engine oil and running the engine for a while before changing oil does a
great job at cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
Up here we look for the dirtiest mogas we can find and that would be
ESSO.Anything else may have ethanol in it and that's bad.Someday all
mogas will have ethanol since our government is bent on this direction
and that will be a sad day for us.I know of no one up here in my area
who uses Marvel Mystery oil.Then again I'm not in touch with most of the
pilots in the area ,only the ones in our RAA.
________________________________
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: June 28, 2006 3:17 PM
Boy, I sure hate to get involved in this discussing. Please don't kill
the messenger....I'm not pro or con on the subject, I'm just relaying on
information. Some folks kinda feel that talking about Marvel Mystery
Oil is like talking about their mother. You'd better watch what you
say.
On another site (Yahoo Avid Flyers) the subject was brought up a few
years ago as a number of folks use it in their two strokes. Someone
posted an excerp from a NTSB investigation that listed Marvel Myster Oil
as being made of Mineral Oil, Stoddard Salvent and Lard.
I really know very little about 4 stroke engines and everything I read
will be a big help for me. What kind of fuel burn does the rest of you
guys that fly behind a 65 Continental get? Are you using Av gas or auto
gas?
Gene
New to the site and new to flying (and loving) a Pietenpol.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil <mailto:horzpool@goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning
from others at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix
well with fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of
the Cub pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some
crashes by clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I
will pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine
oil and running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great
job at cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
Message 4
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| Subject: | don't add things you don't need |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
Thank you, Dan
I'm glad the posts are helping you stay encouraged ! I guess that even
though my project has been flying for
almost 8 years (that is unreal) I still vividly recall the feelings of
discouragement along the building path---and that was while
I didn't have a wife or family around so I had the time and the money to
build, build, build.
I'm sure that building a kit is quite a haul too, but to scratch build
something like a Pietenpol, we need all the motivation, encouragement,
and kicks in the pants we can get !
Mike
Message 5
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| Subject: | to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the best
way to route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs from
the pull to the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits
through a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good.
What have you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in the
right spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a
rainstorm, water will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good
drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe to
spray in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest house
is 50 ft, so I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast drying time
of dope will allowme to spray here rather than trucking everything
somewhere else.
Douwe
Message 6
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|
I hesitate to write because Mike (as always) said it so well. So I'll
basically reiterate what he said.
When building a high-drag, relatively low wing area airframe like a
Piet, it is vital that weight be kept down, and it sounds like you get
that, so that's the first step... understanding that.
I think when you build every part, or add anything it is good to ask
yourself, "do I need this" and "can this be done lighter".
As Mike said, I would NOT try to build the basic airframe lighter,
because it is exceptionally strong and proven and really not overweight
as it is, so why mess with it. It's all the other stuff we add that
does the damage to the overall weight.
I was really impressed with Allen Rudolph's old Ford powered Piet up at
Brodhead last year. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think
someone said it was right around 600, maybe under, with a Model A
engine! so it can be done! and oh, what a beautifully simple airplane!!
Like you said, build the original fuse, don't add width unless you need
it. Use light ceconite, don't pile on tons of paint/dope/polyfiber.
Don't use silver on the bottom surfaces unless you plan on lots of
inverted flight time. Keep your seatbelts light, cushions to a minimum,
instruments to a minimum (I am using a light wing mounted airspeed
indicator, saving the panel mounted unit and pitot system) Make your
wingscreens no thicker than needed.
And remember, every pound in the tail equals four in the nose, so keep
things light back there.
The Piet is a pure fun flying machine and is designed for no other
reason than to fly around the puddle. There weren't any frills on it,
you didn't need them, the frills are what's around you and below you.
Douwe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
Douwe,
HVLP gun have a much better transfer at minimal pressure with most of the over
spray hitting the floor. I have painted many cars and other stuff outdoors with
very little wind and find it no problem.
Ken Heide
Fargo, ND
do not archive
Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the best way to
route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs from the pull to
the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits through
a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good. What have
you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in the right
spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a rainstorm, water
will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe to spray
in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest house is 50 ft, so
I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast drying time of dope will allowme
to spray here rather than trucking everything somewhere else.
Douwe
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
Douwe,
I HVLP'ed N-1033B in backyard in FL, from chromate on metal to final
coats on fabric. You just have to insure the wind is very calm and
surface you're painting is dry. I painted early morn and late evening,
mid-day the slight breeze was too much. WEAR A GOOD CARBON-MASK TIGHT
TO YOUR FACE.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the
best way to route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs
from the pull to the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits
through a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good.
What have you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in
the right spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a
rainstorm, water will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good
drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe
to spray in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest
house is 50 ft, so I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast
drying time of dope will allowme to spray here rather than trucking
everything somewhere else.
Douwe
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
chamber
I use to service a fleet of Convairs. All recips. the 2-3-440 series all
used "ADI" fluid and was actually nothing more than antifreeze...thats
right, Ethylne Glycol. A 50/50 mix (water) tp prevent it from freezing
at altitude. It increases compression at High MP's to prevent
pre-ignition just as you say.
I sure miss the old Convairs. Love those and the Martin 404's were nice
too. I got a little stick time but not too much. Most of the flights I
"jumped" were PT and I just rode along for the fun of it...and to look
for oil leaks streaming out the nacelle's. they usually did despite my
beat efforts.
Dave...(remanissing) Down in Florida----- Original Message -----
From: SSchof4277@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning
thecombustion chamber
I flew a Convair 440 with P&W R-2800's and they had water injection
but it was only used during take off, to allow for higher manifold
pressures without detonation. I don't remember if it was pure water or a
water / alcohol mix.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
In a message dated 6/29/2006 7:38:01 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the best way
to route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs from the pull to
the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits
through a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good. What
have
you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in the
right spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a rainstorm, water
will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe to
spray in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest house is 50 ft,
so I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast drying time of dope will
allowme to spray here rather than trucking everything somewhere else.
Douwe
Douwe,
The bottom aileron cable that goes to the bottom of the horn, passes
through a piece of round LEXAN, not Plexiglas. Lexan is Much tougher than
Plexiglas. I used 8 countersunk screws to secure the clear Lexan to a piece of
1/4"
plywood joggled to accept the lexan cover, under the fabric. The fabric then
wraps around the plywood, then the Lexan cover is installed on top of the
fabric. The hole in the Lexan that the cable passes through is on the exact
angle the cable is, and is just barely big enough for the cable, which is why it
can be used as the actual fairlead, that keeps the cable in the groove of the
pulley. The tradeoff with Lexan is that any fuel spilled on it will make it
crack, unless it is treated (including the edges), when used for a windshield.
Plexiglas is fuel resistant, but not nearly as tough as Lexan. For the top
cable, I glued a 2 1/2" or 3" oval piece of 1/16" plywood to the fabric, then
covered the plywood with another fabric patch, overlapping the plywood by 1 1/2"
or 2" with the fabric patch. Those upper and lower aileron horn pulleys
MUST have some type of fairleads to keep the cables in the pulleys. A fabric
patch is NOT good enough for a fairlead. I have some good pictures of it on my
web site.
Years ago, I've painted over 100 cars with the old syphon type guns, but
they are totally antiquated by the HVLP type spray equipment. I'm buying new
HVLP spray equipment, but haven't used it yet. I think that's the Only way to
go.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
http://nx770cg.com/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
In a message dated 6/29/2006 12:38:13 PM Central Standard Time,
gbowen@ptialaska.net writes:
WEAR A GOOD CARBON-MASK TIGHT TO YOUR FACE.
Yep, but an air supply would be much healthier, especially when using any of
the epoxy paints. If you do use just a mask, you Absolutely Are Not Allowed
to have a beard while doing this work. In other words, you must have 100%
perfect seal around the mask.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: building light |
In a message dated 6/29/2006 7:53:59 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
The Piet is a pure fun flying machine and is designed for no other reason
than to fly around the puddle.
Very true, but in '04 I did a 3100 mile cross country flight in the ol
Pietenpol !! Best adventure of my life !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: cht thermocouple washer and copper spark plug washer |
annealing
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Paul Carter" <flyinhobo@bellsouth.net>
Mike, You should not use a washer along with the ring type CHT
Thermacouple. (it would shorten the plug) The ring type CHT should seal the
same as the washer does. Just be careful and don't let it turn while
tightening the plug. As far as annealing the thermocouple, I believe that
would ruin the thermocouple. Paul (a non-practicing A&P)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:45 AM
washer annealing
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy
> <Michael.D.Cuy@grc.nasa.gov>
>
> Guys-- I know that when you change or clean spark plugs you should either
> use a new copper plug washer
>
> or anneal (heat red hot w/ a propane torch, then water quench to soften)
> the used ones, but my questions is:
>
> do you use a copper washer over or with a CHT thermocouple washer ?? Do
> you also anneal the thermocouple
>
> washer as well to make it seal well, become soft or is that not
> recommended ?
>
> I fear that I'm not getting a good seal on that plug where the cht washer
> is.
>
> She's not burning as well and fouls up. The plug is good---bench fires
> fine.
>
> Mike
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
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