Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:31 AM - Re: double nickel (Clif Dawson)
2. 08:28 AM - elevator cable routing under the rear seat (John Egan)
3. 08:42 AM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (Phillips, Jack)
4. 08:52 AM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (HelsperSew@aol.com)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (Lynn Knoll)
6. 11:47 AM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (Ben Charvet)
7. 12:00 PM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (Jim Markle)
8. 01:31 PM - elevator cable routing under the rear seat (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 02:48 PM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
10. 03:43 PM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (gcardinal)
11. 05:39 PM - Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 05:44 PM - aged pilots (glich7@juno.com)
13. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Brodhead Pictures (Rcaprd@aol.com)
14. 06:30 PM - Re: aged pilots (HelsperSew@aol.com)
15. 06:35 PM - Beauty in Simplicity and Slow Speed (Rcaprd@aol.com)
16. 07:11 PM - Re: aged pilots (TomTravis@aol.com)
17. 07:32 PM - Re: aged pilots (walt evans)
18. 10:02 PM - Re: Brodhead Pictures (Riblett) (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: double nickel |
39!!!! Hey, I'm 14! :-)
Clif
Make as many mistakes as you can. Learn from them.
How else are you going to become a person of value?
Hey guys,
One of you said it best. Age is in the mind. I tell people I'm a 39
year old man trapped in a 64 year old body. As long as there is the
will (& physical health permits) one can build a plane and fly.
Arden Adamson
Waupaca, WI
Message 2
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| Subject: | elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
Hello all,
From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my controls. Today's
question is: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross
member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the
rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank?
If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces
or some form of guides fabricated?
Thank you for your help,
John
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| Subject: | elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
I used pulleys in mine
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Egan
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 11:26 AM
Hello all,
controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables
thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be
located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the
control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in
that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides
fabricated?
Thank you for your help,
John
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
I used pulleys in mine also.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
Pulleys here also.
Lynn Knoll
Piet/Vair
Wichita
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
I'm working on mine now too. I used a pulley to run the line to the top
of the bellcrank, but the line to the bottom of the bellcrank is almost
straight, so I'm running that cable through a piece of copper tubing. I
put an oak doubler under the rear of the rear seat support to give some
strength to the hole the copper tubing will mount in. I have a tubing
flare tool that I willl use to bend a nice flange on both ends of the
tubing after it is in place. I got this idea from Tony Bingelis's
books. I'm not finished yet so take it for what its worth.....
Ben
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
Pulley
Jim Markle
Pryor, OK
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Hello all,
From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my
controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables
thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be
located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the
control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in
that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides
fabricated?
Thank you for your help,
John
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Message 8
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| Subject: | elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Pulleys on 41CC. I sent a photo of the setup off-list.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
I made hard wood guides. I got the idea from an old timer at Brodhead
who said he did that many many years ago on an aircamper he still flies.
The wood and cable show no ware, just a polishing from the cable
movement He said. I drilled the ash at a roughly at the angle needed
for the cables, then made the holes better with a Dremmel. I made an
access cover under this area so I can watch it closely and put on
pulleys if it comes to that. Leon S..
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
NX18235 has the rudder cables running through nylon tubing from under
the seat to just before the cable exits the fuselage. The tubing acts as
a continuous fairlead.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Hello all,
From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my
controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables
thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be
located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the
control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in
that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides
fabricated?
Thank you for your help,
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat |
In a message dated 8/3/2006 10:30:03 AM Central Standard Time,
johnegan99@yahoo.com writes:
Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the
rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide
the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run
the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of
guides fabricated?
John,
It seems that most folks use at least one pulley on the cable that goes up to
the top of the bellcrank. However, there is absolutely NO reason that a
pulley must be used there. I didn't use a pulley, and there is NO wear going on
in that area, after well over 300 hrs operation. It simply rides on a piece of
hardwood, however, I did tighten up one of the turnbuckles up a couple of
years ago, and maybe after a few more years I may have to make another slight
adjustment. Copper tubing is not a very good fairlead, because it has poor
abrasion characteristics, and there is also what is called Dissimilar Metal
Corrosion. Pulley's add complexity to the design, as well as the risk of a cable
jumping out, and jamming the control cable. The beauty of the Pietenpol is in
the simplicity of it's design. Changing even simple things like this adds an
incredible amount of time, and thought that it takes you to build, and after all
that extra effort, you still haven't made an improvement. Stick to the
plans, and just Git 'er done !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 12
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Hey listers,
I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those who
lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen and th
is is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol list.
I have been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in general f
or at least six years, soaking up all the information I can. If you doub
t my research or enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified Wingnut. I th
ink this is pretty good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money to work on m
y private certificate which I completed March ' 06. Last November I took
a Greyhound bus for 25 hours from Columbus, OH to Florida to attend WW'
s Corvair College to learn in person about what I had read on his websit
e. In July of this year I drove about eleven hours to go to my first Bro
dhead. I also go to safety seminars in my area whenever I can. For those
who attended Brodhead this year, and were observant, you would have hea
rd a man introducing his son to Bill Rewey, and stating that said son wo
uld soon be working on his own Pietenpol project soon (or was already wo
rking, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted to show him the finished produc
t. I believe the kid was 17 or 18!
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see the
results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure da
ys right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't worki
ng. I wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or the
youth internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I kno
w I'm not alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking in a
ll the knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the way.
Just have a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this didn't co
me off too strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard. Thanks,
Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio
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<html><P>Hey listers,</P>
<P>I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those w
ho lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen and
this is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol li
st. I have been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in genera
l for at least six years, soaking up all the information I can. If you d
oubt my research or enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified Wingnut. I
think this is pretty good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money to work o
n my private certificate which I completed March ' 06. Last November I t
ook a Greyhound bus for 25 hours from Columbus, OH to Florida to at
tend WW's Corvair College to learn in person about what I had read on hi
s website. In July of this year I drove about eleven hours to go to my f
irst Brodhead. I also go to safety seminars in my area whenever I can. F
or those who attended Brodhead this year, and were observant, you would
have heard a man introducing his son to Bill Rewey, and stating that sai
d son would soon be working on his own Pietenpol project soon (or was al
ready working, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted to show him the finishe
d product. I believe the kid was 17 or 18! </P>
<P>Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see
the results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure
days right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't wo
rking. I wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or t
he youth internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I
know I'm not alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking i
n all the knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the w
ay. Just have a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this didn't
come off too strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard. Thank
s,</P>
<P>Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio</P></html>
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Pictures |
In a message dated 8/2/2006 10:46:58 AM Central Standard Time,
dav3xor@gmail.com writes:
I would like to do one every year. :) Not sure I can guarantee it
(I live in Portland Oregon), but I can certainly try.
Dave,
Hope to meet you there next year !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 14
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Hi Tim,
I too, am tired of listening to the "old timers" whine about how the "good
old days" are gone, and "what are we going to do?". I am 52 and have loved
all-things aviation since I was 12. Good for you that you have completed your
Private- Congratulations! You should be very proud of yourself. I always try
to look forward instead of looking back. We all only have one life to live,
and I for one do not want to waste one minute of it whining. I love every
minute of working on my Piet and can't wait to fly her. After I get done I
will be the one at Brodhead setting a new record for giving free rides to any
and all who want them. If we all stopped complaining for a minute and actually
counted all our good fortune, we would have to conclude that these ARE the
"good old days".
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Beauty in Simplicity and Slow Speed |
In a message dated 8/2/2006 1:26:47 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky@aol.com writes:
Pieters,
Here I am butting in on your conversations again. I am pleased to see some
discussions begin on the subject of Piet technics. Granted, the Piet is a well
designed machine and has weathered the years and hardly anyone has received
harm. But can it be improved without changing it's basic designs?
After completing and flying 41CC I felt that it's flying characterics could
be greatly improved, especially the float after round out. Many said it was
because of high drag that caused the falling brick sensation. The Cub and 7AC
both have a nice float, are heavier and posses abundant drag AND with 65 HP. As
I
was building 311CC I strongly considered the Cub airfoil as well as the 7AC
and the Clark Y. I feel now they are superior to the BHP French 10.
If I were to build again it would definitely be with a different airfoil.
That Piet airfoil is in my opinion the weakest link of the Piet chain design.
Two-bits worth on this beautiful Southern afternoon.
I'll be waiting your bombardments with my old steel helmet.
CMC
OK Corky,
Put on that ol' steel helmet, 'cause I'm coming after ya !! he he !!
If you change the airfoil of the Pietenpol, you Have changed it's basic
design, because it is actually one of it's strongest links. Here's why:
The airfoil is like flying with a notch of flaps, always in - high drag
and lots of Lift. All this lift allows you to take off and land at very slow
speeds, which explains why it has such a good safety record - injuries will
more often if there is an increase if the touchdown speed has to be increased.
This airfoil is also why Bernard was able to design an airplane with the
power output of a Model A engine.
If you float after roundout, you will certainly land longer than if you
didn't float. Untill you really get used to the landing characteristics of the
Piet airfoil, you should leave a little bit of power in, and land a little
longer. It takes dozens of landings, but after you get used to it, pull power
to idle on final approach, roundout and flair inches above the ground, and see
just how short the roll out can be.
Those other airfoils you mentioned are designed into those particular
airframes, and are most certainly better than the Piet airfoil in that particular
application.
The Pietenpol Does NOT have balanced control surfaces, and if the top
speed is increased with a lower drag airfoil, then you increase the risk of
Control Surface Flutter. If flutter occurs, it will only take a matter of seconds
before the subject control surface will have complete, and catastrophic
failure. This is the reason you should NEVER take the Pietenpol past the design
Vne
of 90 mph.
The Pietenpol airfoil has an aft C. of G. limit which is further aft on
the airfoil than on almost any other airfoil, because of it's negative pitching
moment, and if the airfoil is changed to something else, then you MUST use
C.of G. limits according to the airfoil used - which will move the aft limit
forward, and this will only aggravate the already aft C G condition that most
Pietenpols have.
There ya have it, Corky...my two-bit opinion :)
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 16
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Hi Tim,
It's good to hear from someone who has the enthusiasm and the drive to get
involved in this crazy business. It's not easy but I can't think of any other
field that is so much fun.
You'll meet some great guys along the way. In fact you've already met one of
the nicest and most knowledgeable in Mike Cuy.
Best of luck and don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't do it.
Tom Travis
Message 17
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Tim,
Don't think you came on too strong. Just think you finally found this
aviation thing, and are excited!
If you're ever up in NJ, look me up, We'll go flying.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: glich7@juno.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aged pilots
Hey listers,
I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those
who lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen
and this is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol
list. I have been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in
general for at least six years, soaking up all the information I can. If
you doubt my research or enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified
Wingnut. I think this is pretty good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money
to work on my private certificate which I completed March ' 06. Last
November I took a Greyhound bus for 25 hours from Columbus, OH to
Florida to attend WW's Corvair College to learn in person about what I
had read on his website. In July of this year I drove about eleven hours
to go to my first Brodhead. I also go to safety seminars in my area
whenever I can. For those who attended Brodhead this year, and were
observant, you would have heard a man introducing his son to Bill Rewey,
and stating that said son would soon be working on his own Pietenpol
project soon (or was already working, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted
to show him the finished product. I believe the kid was 17 or 18!
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see
the results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure
days right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't
working. I wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or
the youth internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I
know I'm not alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking
in all the knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the
way. Just have a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this
didn't come off too strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard.
Thanks,
Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Pictures (Riblett) |
I understand him, once someone flys a Riblett airfoiled wing, will fall in love
with it...
Near here there is a pilot with an old Rans Coyote, his landing strip altitude
is near 7,000 ft ASL and hot in summer. To make the story short, he needed to
change the wing cloth (to many years flying), but the replacement was very expensive
for him (including import and shipping), He was going to scrap it and
quit...
We convinced him to try to rebuild the wing using a Riblett (the one for ultralights)
dacron and Latex... He now loves his plane, lower landing speeds, higher
cruise with same gph, and can handle full gross with no climb problem...
He is just happy and was a very inexpensive rebuilt.
But the Piet HAS to be a Piet! (or a Grega), I think...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Do not archive.
Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> wrote: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures
I think I overheard Lowell say that it's a Riblett airfoil and that Riblett
had looked at the Piet airfoil, made comments on its strengths and weaknesses,
and then postulated that this other airfoil would have all the strengths and
none of the weaknesses. I had not heard that it was a NACA airfoil, though. Maybe
I missed that part of the conversion.
Probably the best bet would be to talk to Lowell directly. He is really sold on
this airfoil and quite enthusiastic.
Jeff
At 10:32 AM -0500 8/2/06, Roman Bukolt wrote:
Speaking of Lowell Frank's Radial Piet. He's very experienced at Piet flying.
He has tried a number of engines on that plane along with a variety of wings including
the original Piet airfoil. But the wing he has on his plane is not the
Piet airfoil. It is an NACA4412. It's about 5/8" thicker and has about half
the camberand a rounder leading edge. He says the climb is improved, cruise
speed higher, better glide. I saw it take off. The climb was more akin to a Cessna
150. About double the angle of the rest of the Piets. That radial is a
90 hp engine and the the guy who flew it said he did not even use full throttle.
Hmm. Interesting! and I haven't built my wing yet. Only the rib set. (Pietenpol
rib plan) I believe Lowell said it was the same airfoil used on the Luscombe.
Romey Bukolt Corvair powered under construction NX88XN (reserved)
do not archive
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
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