Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:51 AM - Photos (TBYH@aol.com)
2. 08:02 AM - Re: Photos (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
3. 08:27 AM - Re: Photos (HelsperSew@aol.com)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: Photos (gcardinal)
5. 09:23 AM - Re: Photos (Catdesigns)
6. 09:31 AM - Ohio Pietenpols (Don Emch)
7. 09:38 AM - Re: Photos (John Egan)
8. 12:03 PM - A65 spark plugs (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 12:14 PM - Re: A65 spark plugs (Rcaprd@aol.com)
10. 04:49 PM - New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... (Matt Dralle)
11. 05:43 PM - Re: Ohio Pietenpols (shad bell)
12. 05:50 PM - Re: A65 spark plugs (walt evans)
13. 05:56 PM - Re: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... (Gene Rambo)
Message 1
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A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for
the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and the
landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ?
Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at
Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did something
wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it should
be
no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no
muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down the
runway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great.
Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love that
Model A engine!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Message 2
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In a message dated 8/6/2006 10:53:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, TBYH@aol.com
writes:
Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at
Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did something
wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it should
be
no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no
muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down the
runway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great.
Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love that
Model A engine!
I have been giving the powerplant a lot of thought as I prepare to build and
was concerned about the weight issue. Actually I have 2 Model engine blocks
and a ford 2.2 OHC(LIMA) engine that's brand new from during the Pinto years. It
would be nice to use either powerplant format but concerned about the weight
Vs hp ration in hauling my big self above the trees on a hot day. Interesting
to learn that the Model A engine had enough go to get the pilot and a 250 lb
passenger into the air with no trouble on a 90 degree day.
Looks like more consideration is necessary in utilizing the what I have
available, as in the true to form and design considerations of Bernard!
John
Message 3
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Hi Fred,
I made a point of looking at the size of the control cables on the "Last
Original" Piet that Bernard built. He used 1/8" inside the cockpit for the
elevators, but behind the bellcrank he went with 3/32" He also used only 1/16"
for tail bracing. I think a lot of guys go overkill and use 1/8" on
everything. I have heard Bill Rewey say to use 3/32" on the tail bracing because
if it
corrodes you may not see it. I think if you go with stainless cable you
would not have to worry about that. Besides there is an automatic fail-safe in
that area because you have two brace wires on each side. The plans call for
3/32" for the ailerons.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 4
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Hi Fred,
NX18235 uses dash 16 turnbuckles (or equivalent) and 3/32 cable for all
control cables and empennage bracing. Landing gear uses dash 22
turnbuckles and 1/8 cable.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos
A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone
using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal
stabilizer and the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ?
Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at
Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did
something wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front
seat, it should be no problem for most guys. And that little Model A
engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it
been 90 degrees and no wind down the runway it might have been a little
different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet
and it was better than I had imagined...love that Model A engine!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Message 5
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For the control cables the plans call for 3/32" wire from the bell crank
to the tail, 7x19 3/32" = 1,000# galvanized or 920# stainless an
AN130-16 (1,600#) would be fine here. Some people do not like the small
size of the 3/32" so they substitute 1/8" wire, 7/19 1/8"= 2000# Galv
or 1760#. You could use an AN 130-16 and get 1,600# or if you step up
to the AN130-22 you get 2,200#. Both exceed the design strength, you
can decide how much you want to exceed it by. The two cables from the
stick to the bell crank are called out as 1/8" flexible, so obviously an
AN130-22 should be used here as you would be giving away 400# of
strength using the AN130-16.
Tail brace wire is 14 gage on the plans. According to my book "Aircraft
Maintenance" by Brimm and Boggess published in 1940, Tinned Aircraft
Wire 14 gage has a breaking strength of 1,250#. Unfortunately, this
falls between the 3/32 and 1/8 cable. I believe most people go with the
3/32 with AN130-16. It's what I will use.
The Jenny gear calls for 1/8" cable so use an AN130-22 which exceeds the
strength of the wire, an AN130-16 would be too much of a loss in
strength.
I know the list archives have a lot of discussion on this subject. Try
doing a search and you can read what others have done.
The photo share can take several days to post as Matt does it by hand
when he gets time.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: TBYH@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos
A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone
using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal
stabilizer and the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ?
Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at
Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did
something wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front
seat, it should be no problem for most guys. And that little Model A
engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it
been 90 degrees and no wind down the runway it might have been a little
different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet
and it was better than I had imagined...love that Model A engine!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Message 6
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
I was just reading Tim Hansens post. It got me to realizing that there are quite
a few Pietenpol owners in Ohio. If you've done some research Tim you probably
know this already. There's Mike near Cleveland, Will Graff in Wadsworth,
Frank Pavliga near Alliance, Gary and Shad Bell near Columbus, Virgil Phillips
near Mansfield, and I'm on the eastern side south of Youngstown. These are just
some of the completed ones, I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there are several
under construction. Josh Bixler is another 20-something builder near Alliance.
I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of Pietenpol activity in Ohio.
It would be really cool if we could try to organize something to get at least
a few of them together somewhere. I know when I was building it helped so
much to see one in completed form. Anyway if there is anyone that is going to
be in the northeastern Ohio you would be very welcome to stop by and take a
look and talk Piets. Just drop me a line.
Don E.
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52772#52772
Message 7
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Fred,
Regarding cable size, over the past few days, I have been searching the archives
and builder's web sites to answer the same question. After looking at Chuck
Gantzer's web site, I then e-mailed him to get more of his thoughts. I'll attach
Chuck's comments below that he shared with me yesterday and he also commented
to me to post the question again as you just did.
From Chuck:
John,
I used 1/8" cable for the rudder control, but I just looked at the plans, and
it calls out for 3/32" cable, but I think almost everyone uses 1/8" for the rudder.
Also use 1/8" for pitch control from the stick to the bellcrank, and use
3/32" cable from the bellcrank to the Flippers (elevators). In the book Stick
and Rudder, Wolfgang Langewiesche calls them the 'Flippers'. He goes on with
a very good explanation why. I would strongly suggest you read this book
at least Three times !! In the AC 43.13 (another Must Have publication) it
calls out for a cable deflection of more than 7, there should be a pulley in
place, as opposed to a fairlead. Therefore, by today's standards, a pulley would
be required on the cable that goes to the top of the bellcrank, like you
suggested you were going to do. However, because of the design of the Pietenpol,
and the tension of those cables, the pulley is not required there.
On my plane the aileron cables are 3/32", the drag / anti-drag cables in
the wing are 3/32", the lift strut cables are 3/32", the cabane strut cables
are 3/32", the flying wires on the tail are 1/16", and the tailwheel cable is
1/16" which goes all the way up to the rudder bar. I used nico-press fittings
for everything on the cables, except the flying wires on the tail, which are
swaged fittings. The control surface cables are NOT tight...you simply remove
all the slack, and do not tighten up the cable - just remove all the slack.
On the fixed cables in the wing, struts, cabane, and tail, you DO tension them
up a little bit, till they Twang - no call out on tension, but they are tight.
The entire cable system on my plane has been trouble free, however, there is
times when some adjustments must be made. Wood changes dimensions slightly
with temp and humidity, and this makes it necessary to make an adjustment here
and there, every so often.
A thought just occurred to me. If you like, you should ask me these questions
on the Pietenpol Discussion group, so anyone else contemplating the same
things you are, could benefit from my explanation. Hope this helps. Have fun
building !! It's a Great hobby !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
I'll offer this infomation to the group so they don't have to look at the prints:
According to the prints (2-26-34) of the control system, 3/32" cable is called
out for the rudder cables (top view of fuselage detail), 1/8" cable is called
out for the cable between the control stick and bell crank (side view of
fuselage detail), 3/32" cable for the aileron cables (cross section view of the
fuselage and wing detail). I don't see a call out for the cables running from
the bell crank to the tail surfaces, maybe it's on a diiferent page?
I'm wondering if 3/32" cable is a good choice for the control stick cables?
Would the control sticks and other parts fail before the 3/32" cable fails? Thanks
all.
TBYH@aol.com wrote:
A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using
for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and
the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ?
!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
---------------------------------
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Message 8
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Howdy, Pieters-
I figure as long as the cowlings are off the engine, I should pull the
plugs, clean and gap them. Just never done it with aircraft plugs before.
Our EAA Chapter has plug cleaning and gapping tools so no problems there,
but I'm trying to debunk the lore about keeping each plug in the same
position when reinstalling, or else rotating them.
I have John Schwaner's Sac Sky Ranch book and it talks about rotating the
plugs on 4-cyl. engines, but then seems to indicate that it should not be
done on 4-cyl. engines where one mag fires all the top plugs and the other
fires all the bottom ones. If I need to keep track of the plugs I will, but
I figured if anybody would know about this, you Pieters would.
Any comments on spark plugs?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A65 spark plugs |
In a message dated 8/6/2006 2:04:51 PM Central Standard Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
I have John Schwaner's Sac Sky Ranch book and it talks about rotating the
plugs on 4-cyl. engines, but then seems to indicate that it should not be
done on 4-cyl. engines where one mag fires all the top plugs and the other
fires all the bottom ones. If I need to keep track of the plugs I will, but
I figured if anybody would know about this, you Pieters would.
Any comments on spark plugs?
Oscar Zuniga
Oscar,
Yes, the plugs should be rotated, but I don't recall the document that calls
out the rotation. I think you rotate each top plug over to the next cylinder
on the bottom, and so fourth for the bottom plugs. This way the plug gets a
different cylinder, and a different mag.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 10
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| Subject: | New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because
of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will
limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially
set the limit to 2MB
and we'll see how everyone likes that.
If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they
will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the
List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and
how large their message
was.
Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Pietenpols |
Hello, Just wondering how many, if any piets plan on going to the M.E.R.F.I. fly-in
at Marion Ohio this year. I know Mike said he would not be able to make
it. I believe it is on the week end of august 26, and 27. Marion is a nice "central"
location for all in Ohio, and weather pending, would make a nice cross
country. I plan on flying NX92GB to marion if we get our carberator parts in
time. Hope to see some Piets at marion since I didn't get all the way to brodhead
this year.
sincerly
Shad
Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch"
I was just reading Tim Hansens post. It got me to realizing that there are quite
a few Pietenpol owners in Ohio. If you've done some research Tim you probably
know this already. There's Mike near Cleveland, Will Graff in Wadsworth, Frank
Pavliga near Alliance, Gary and Shad Bell near Columbus, Virgil Phillips near
Mansfield, and I'm on the eastern side south of Youngstown. These are just
some of the completed ones, I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there are several
under construction. Josh Bixler is another 20-something builder near Alliance.
I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of Pietenpol activity in Ohio. It would
be really cool if we could try to organize something to get at least a few
of them together somewhere. I know when I was building it helped so much to
see one in completed form. Anyway if there is anyone that is going to be in the
northeastern Ohio you would be very welcome to stop by and take a look and talk
Piets. Just drop me a line.
Don E.
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52772#52772
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A65 spark plugs |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
Oscar,
Assuming you have a non certifiet 65, do what my Mentor suggested. Get
standard auto plugs at a fraction of the price. They are 18mm. thread.
For my Eisemann mags, they're set at .018/.019".
They never burped on me.
go here
http://www.magnetoparts.com/index.html
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 spark plugs
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga"
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Howdy, Pieters-
>
> I figure as long as the cowlings are off the engine, I should pull the
> plugs, clean and gap them. Just never done it with aircraft plugs before.
> Our EAA Chapter has plug cleaning and gapping tools so no problems there,
> but I'm trying to debunk the lore about keeping each plug in the same
> position when reinstalling, or else rotating them.
>
> I have John Schwaner's Sac Sky Ranch book and it talks about rotating the
> plugs on 4-cyl. engines, but then seems to indicate that it should not be
> done on 4-cyl. engines where one mag fires all the top plugs and the other
> fires all the bottom ones. If I need to keep track of the plugs I will,
> but I figured if anybody would know about this, you Pieters would.
>
> Any comments on spark plugs?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
I dunno, Matt, I would rather see a minimum size limit . . I am sick and
tired of the "git r done" or "attaboy" or or "that's what she said"
responses, no matter how many times you send out the usage rules
reminders. Think about it, way too many on here are wasting everyone's
time with meaningless short responsesas well. . .
Gene Rambo
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Dralle<mailto:dralle@matronics.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Incoming Message Size Limit
Implemented...
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle
<dralle@matronics.com<mailto:dralle@matronics.com>>
Dear Listers,
Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the
Lists because of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new
filter that will limit the total size of any given message posted to the
List. I have initially set the limit to 2MB
and we'll see how everyone likes that.
If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set
limit, they will receive an email back indicating that their message
wasn't posted to the List and why. Also included in the message will be
the current size limit and how large their message
was.
Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to
start...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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