---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/15/06: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:46 AM - Marvel Schebler parts source? (Ed G.) 2. 06:20 AM - Re: California to Oshkosh & Back () 3. 06:45 AM - Re: Marvel Schebler parts source? (Lee Schiek) 4. 07:10 AM - Interesting find (Dan Loegering) 5. 07:49 AM - Re: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement (long) (Hans Vander Voort) 6. 07:56 AM - Corvair Grega on ebay in MI (Michael D Cuy) 7. 08:04 AM - Source for brass grease cups (HelsperSew@aol.com) 8. 08:34 AM - Re: Corvair Grega on ebay in MI () 9. 10:42 AM - Re: latex test square (long) (Jim Carriere) 10. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: latex test square (long) (Mark Blackwell) 11. 01:59 PM - California to Oshkosh & Back (Oscar Zuniga) 12. 02:26 PM - Re: California to Oshkosh & Back (Jeff Boatright) 13. 02:49 PM - airplane covers (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 02:59 PM - Re: airplane covers (Jeff Boatright) 15. 04:24 PM - Tire Pressures (slowbilder@COMCAST.NET) 16. 04:35 PM - Re: airplane covers (Isablcorky@aol.com) 17. 04:43 PM - Re: Tire Pressures (Rcaprd@aol.com) 18. 04:45 PM - Re: airplane covers (Dave and Connie) 19. 04:46 PM - Re: airplane covers (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:53 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Schebler parts source? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Does anyone know a good source for carb parts? ACS has a complete overhaul kit for my MA3 carburator for $207. I'm glad to see they're available but was hopeing I might find one for less dinero. Also...my carb's mixture lever was broken off when I got it. Does anyone have a junk carb that they want to sell the arm off of. Thanks in advance. Ed Grentzer in muggy Fl. Starting to see a light in the tunnel and hoping it's not the train. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: California to Oshkosh & Back From: Wow,just awsome,thankyou for all that.Did you see any UFO's at Devels Tower? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd@aol.com Sent: August 14, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: California to Oshkosh & Back I know you guys are going to enjoy these pictures. They are from some guys that made that trip this year...but I don't know who it was. Really some fantastic sceenery. One of these days I'm going to do a lap around those mountains !! Chuck G. NX770CG OSHKOSH 2006 ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:03 AM PST US From: "Lee Schiek" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Schebler parts source? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Lee Schiek" Seems like there's always a bunch of Marvel carbs/parts on E-Bay. Enter MARVEL on E-Bay Motors.......If you select All of E-Bay, ya get a bazillion comic book offers! >From: "Ed G." >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Schebler parts source? >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:46:12 -0400 > >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." > > >Does anyone know a good source for carb parts? ACS has a complete overhaul >kit for my MA3 carburator for $207. I'm glad to see they're available but >was hopeing I might find one for less dinero. Also...my carb's mixture >lever was broken off when I got it. Does anyone have a junk carb that they >want to sell the arm off of. Thanks in advance. Ed Grentzer in muggy Fl. >Starting to see a light in the tunnel and hoping it's not the train. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting find From: "Dan Loegering" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" Last night I attended our local EAA chapter meeting and instead of our regular meeting place, it was held at a "pioneer village" museum that has a hangar as one of the exhibits. Now, I knew that they had some older, unique aircraft on the grounds, but it had been a number of years since I visited this museum. Tucked away in the far corner under the wing of a C-47 I saw a familiar shape - sure enough it was a Piet! The placard said it was built in 1932 by a 16 year old... and darn if I didn't have my camera along. I'm heading back out there this weekend to take some pictures and try to gather some more details about this aircraft. The reason the EAA chapter was at the museum is they were looking for help with their collection - the years inside and the layers of dust are starting to take their toll. Looks like we will be giving their collection a once over in the spring to clear away the dust and cobwebs - you can guess which exhibit I will be spending my time on! And of course, last night I found the last box of hardware that I had packed up when I moved - I knew it was somewhere - now I can get back to building after a three month break! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement (long) From: Hans Vander Voort Andrea, My two cents worth. Long fuselage, split landing gear. I did move the Axle position forward as suggested by Don Pietenpol, when using brakes. (See attached file: W & B NX15KV.pdf) Hans "Andrea Vavassori" "pietenpol discussion list" Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle 08/11/2006 05:59 placement (long) PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Andrea Vavassori" Hello to everybody! First of all, a big THANK YOU to the list for the response to the first bunch of questions! I collected and stored all the photos and documents you guys provided, and I especially thank Chris Tracy who provided the link to his website and to Chris Bobka's document about wheel axles placement. Again, thanks! Well, I decided to fire up the CAD and try to assemble a virtual Piet with all the modifications/clarifications available so far. Not to redesign the Piet itself but just to be a quick and clean method to check dimensions and placements. And here is, obviously, where confusion begins. :-( Before getting into the hang of it, I want to explain a couple of points which form the base for the whole discussion: 1) Our Piet is not going to enjoy any of the three de-facto "standard" powerplants (Ford Model A, Corvair or Continental A65-8) simply because none is available to us in Europe (even A65-8 are rarer than hen's teeth these days, in spite of their past wide availability here). Therefore, the powerplant will have to be something quite different, probabily derived from a modern gas/diesel auto engine or something like that. When time comes, appropriate calculations will be made for engine placement, in order to obtain the correct Center of Gravity range. I'm familiar with this procedure as I've already done it in the past for two other airplanes, and they then checked correctly on the scales. 2) Because of the aforementioned point, I decided to reference all my work to the original 1933 Improved Plans i.e. considering the Piet as having the wing position determined by the cabane struts at right angles with the upper longeron. That is, with the important change of the 172 3/8" long fuselage (because we believe we need the increased tail arm as we assume a longer nose). As already said, that's where confusion begins, because after looking at all the photos I could see, reading Chris Bobka's comments, and even checking the Weight and Balance sheet provided by Don Pietenpol, I saw that the wing position can be quite different from the original one, and not always the same. This is not very good from an engineering standpoint, because every kind of W&B calculation assumes a CG range with respect to the airplane Center of Lift, and not the other way around. Not to mention the fact that, as wing placement change, so does the tail arm length, which should be something to be taken very seriously and not changed all too easily. Chris Bobka's document is fine in that it works out a well-weighed logical conclusion from a huge amount of data, but it does NOT mention the WING anywhere. However, let's start working on BOTH fuselages (standard and long) using some known data: 1) Standard fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 17" 2) Long fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 21" 3) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, std fuselage: 6.8" 4) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, long fuselage: 8.8" 5) Most rearward CG position (Don Pietenpol): 33% or 20" from LE Okay, working out the math makes for TWO DIFFERENT distances between wheel axle and most rearward C of G position for the two fuselages: 7.8" for the LONG fuselage, and 9.8" for the STANDARD fuselage. Logic says that the distance should be the same for both fuselages, so obviously one of them is not correct. My own understanding says 7.8" is way too little. When the Piet is sitting without pilots and with empty wing tank, the CG ought to be very close to its most FORWARD position, which is probabily AHEAD of the wheel axle in level flight, meaning the fuselage will barely stand on the tailwheel (if it has not already tipped over). 9.8" does not look really good either, but it's the closest (by 1/2" if I'm not mistaken) to the measurements on the Improved 1933 Plans. Again, I state that the wing is going to be exactly where shown on the plans, and the correct placement of the powerplant will bring the CG range within the correct limits. And none of the measurements for placing Ford/Corvair/Continental engines will apply, as the powerplant will NOT be either one of these. So, where should I place my wheel axles? All the Pieters out there, where is YOUR wheel axle and YOUR wing leading edge with respect to the firewall, and HOW does your Piet behave during landing and on the ground? Thanks in advance for the answers. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:41 AM PST US From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Grega on ebay in MI --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy He calls it a Pietenpol but it is not. It is a Grega GN-1 Air Camper.....and I posted the guy a question/comment letting him know (he might not actually know the difference) Since the list has been quiet I thought I'd stir the pot. I don't begrudge anyone for building a GN-1 in fact they are nice flying if built light.....but don't call them Pietenpols because they are not. GN-1, Grega Aircamper yes. Mike C. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PIETENPOL-AIRCAMPER-L-S-A-GOOD-CONDITION-N174LS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63677QQihZ008QQitemZ180017363419QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:43 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Source for brass grease cups Hi Guys, I have found a source for the really cool brass grease cups that are used (for decoration) on the Ken Perkin's style hubs for the spoked wheels. To my surprise, there was Bob's Antique Auto Parts right across town in Loves Park IL. _www.bobsantiqueautoparts.com_ (http://www.bobsantiqueautoparts.com) . They are a very large store and warehouse that specializes in Model T parts. The part number for the brass grease cups is T-2545-B. These are real nice and a perfect fit for the hubs. You will have to drill/tap for the tapered pipe thread size 1/8" -27 threads per inch. You do not have to actually put grease in the cups if you use the oilight bronze bearings. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Grega on ebay in MI From: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Geee everybody that sees my plane sez it's a Pietenpol.Just because it has Grega mods on it does that mean it can't be a Piet either.The plans say Pietenpol with Grega mods.It's more Pietenpol than Grega if you want to split hairs. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Sent: August 15, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Grega on ebay in MI --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael D Cuy He calls it a Pietenpol but it is not. It is a Grega GN-1 Air Camper.....and I posted the guy a question/comment letting him know (he might not actually know the difference) Since the list has been quiet I thought I'd stir the pot. I don't begrudge anyone for building a GN-1 in fact they are nice flying if built light.....but don't call them Pietenpols because they are not. GN-1, Grega Aircamper yes. Mike C. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PIETENPOL-AIRCAMPER-L-S-A-GOOD-CONDITION- N174LS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63677QQihZ008QQitemZ180017363419QQrdZ1 QQsspagenameZWDVW ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:02 AM PST US From: Jim Carriere Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex test square (long) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Carriere This is to say thank you to everyone who responded and took the topic from there. My greatest concern is that a month (never mind several months) of outdoor tie-down can rack up a few hundred hours of sun and UV exposure, and how well will the paint remain flexible (houses flex a lot less than aircraft fabric). I think one of the early responses, from Dick Navratil, summed it up, that the worst case is re-covering in a few years at relatively little financial loss. That paints a pretty nice picture (pun intended). The other experiences about the test square and repairs (remove paint with a hot iron... who wouldda thought?) are great and make the long-term sound promising. So, I've decided to go ahead and use latex on my plane later this year. Thanks again, keep the building and flying safe and fun Jim in NW FL Kitfox 7 in progress PS- almost forgot, to Dick in particular, I like your Rotec radial powered project. I've had an R2800 for quite some time, and am now finally weeks away from removing it from the crate to hang on my project. I'll finally have some pictures to send to Rotec for their website. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:32 AM PST US From: Mark Blackwell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: latex test square (long) --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Mark Blackwell Well Jim just one more thing to think about. IF you decide to go a route that would put the cover at risk the worst case isn't having to recover in a year or two. The worst case is having that cover fail in flight. I'm not saying which method of paint, cover, ect you should use. If you use something different with the cover, Id adapt a much more intensive program to check that cover to make sure its still structurally sound. Jim Carriere wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Carriere > > This is to say thank you to everyone who responded and took the > topic from there. > > My greatest concern is that a month (never mind several months) of > outdoor tie-down can rack up a few hundred hours of sun and UV > exposure, and how well will the paint remain flexible (houses flex a > lot less than aircraft fabric). I think one of the early responses, > from Dick Navratil, summed it up, that the worst case is re-covering > in a few years at relatively little financial loss. That paints a > pretty nice picture (pun intended). > > The other experiences about the test square and repairs (remove > paint with a hot iron... who wouldda thought?) are great and make > the long-term sound promising. > > So, I've decided to go ahead and use latex on my plane later this > year. > > > Thanks again, keep the building and flying safe and fun > Jim in NW FL > Kitfox 7 in progress > > PS- almost forgot, to Dick in particular, I like your Rotec radial > powered project. I've had an R2800 for quite some time, and am now > finally weeks away from removing it from the crate to hang on my > project. I'll finally have some pictures to send to Rotec for their website. > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:09 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: California to Oshkosh & Back --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Harvey asks- >Did you see any UFO's at Devil's Tower? I don't know, but I would sure be tempted to take a closer look at the top of the tower. That one photo shows a fairly level and clear spot there. It looks a heck of a lot like the top of "Table Rock" north of Medford, Oregon where I spent many hours... and put down a Super Cub a time or three. I'll bet a Piet could put down on top of that tower were it not for the rules against it... ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:53 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: California to Oshkosh & Back --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright Was it St. X or Bach who pondered about the rocks on top of those places? There's only a limited number of ways they could get there, including falling from outer space, right? At 3:58 PM -0500 8/15/06, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > >Harvey asks- > >>Did you see any UFO's at Devil's Tower? > >I don't know, but I would sure be tempted to take a closer look at >the top of the tower. That one photo shows a fairly level and clear >spot there. It looks a heck of a lot like the top of "Table Rock" >north of Medford, Oregon where I spent many hours... and put down a >Super Cub a time or three. I'll bet a Piet could put down on top of >that tower were it not for the rules against it... ;o) > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:07 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: airplane covers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Has anybody seen or made a cover for your Piet, the kind that wraps over the wing center section and takes in the entire cockpit area with straps under the belly? Corky provided cockpit covers for the two individual cockpits on 41CC but when you park the airplane at a fly-in or other place away from your home base, the cover that takes in the whole cockpit area would be nice. It would also swallow up the fuel filler on 41CC (just ahead of the forward windscreen), which would prevent rain from getting into it in a shower. I thought of this when I saw the pictures from the t'storms at Oshkosh and I've seen the covers made of an aluminized reflective outer material with a soft tricot inner lining. Just wondering if anybody has tried it. Seems like it would be easy enough to make a pattern and sew one up. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:57 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airplane covers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright Another problem this would solve is dust and pollen accumulating on the windscreens. This was a real problem for us this past summer. At 4:48 PM -0500 8/15/06, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > Has anybody seen or made a cover for your Piet, the kind that wraps over the wing center section and takes in the entire cockpit area with straps under the belly? ... -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:25 PM PST US From: slowbilder@COMCAST.NET Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tire Pressures A question for those of you flying piets on 6.00-6 tires. What tire pressure do you carry? Bob Humbert N491RH
A question for those of you flying piets on 6.00-6 tires.  What tire pressure do you carry?
 
Bob Humbert
N491RH



________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:17 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airplane covers Oscar, You are beginning to get so excited about flying your Piet and going places and showing it off that it will probably be accused of being owned either by Elvis or Liberace. Nathan Moss ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:56 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tire Pressures In a message dated 8/15/2006 6:27:03 PM Central Standard Time, slowbilder@COMCAST.NET writes: A question for those of you flying piets on 6.00-6 tires. What tire pressure do you carry? Bob Humbert N491RH Bob, I have 8.00 - 6 Turf Type Tires from Wicks. I run 15 lbs. in them. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:31 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airplane covers --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dave and Connie Oscar, I bet that Coverlight would work well. Look at http://www.yostwerks.com for how Tom Yost builds folding kayaks. Click on PVC Skinning on the right side of the window. I found the fabric for about $18/yard and the glue for $10/quart in Rochester, NY. My use was to make some dry bags for a camping trip. The original use for the fabric is tarps for trucks. Dave N36078 '41 BC12-65 Plus a few Cedar strip canoes and a CLC Ches 17' kayak At 05:48 PM 8/15/2006, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" > >Has anybody seen or made a cover for your Piet, the kind that wraps over >the wing center section and takes in the entire cockpit area with straps >under the belly? Corky provided cockpit covers for the two individual >cockpits on 41CC but when you park the airplane at a fly-in or other place >away from your home base, the cover that takes in the whole cockpit area >would be nice. It would also swallow up the fuel filler on 41CC (just >ahead of the forward windscreen), which would prevent rain from getting >into it in a shower. I thought of this when I saw the pictures from the >t'storms at Oshkosh and I've seen the covers made of an aluminized >reflective outer material with a soft tricot inner lining. > >Just wondering if anybody has tried it. Seems like it would be easy >enough to make a pattern and sew one up. > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:01 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airplane covers In a message dated 8/15/2006 6:37:53 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky@aol.com writes: Oscar, You are beginning to get so excited about flying your Piet and going places and showing it off that it will probably be accused of being owned either by Elvis or Liberace. Nathan Moss You crack me up !! :)