Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - (Gene Rambo)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: (gcardinal)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: (walt evans)
4. 08:10 AM - Re: (Gene Rambo)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: (Gene Rambo)
6. 08:13 AM - Re: Radiator placement question, etc (MICHAEL SILVIUS)
7. 08:19 AM - Re: (HelsperSew@aol.com)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: (Gene Rambo)
9. 09:16 AM - Re: (walt evans)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: (Catdesigns)
11. 10:43 AM - Lift Strut Fittings (Rcaprd@aol.com)
12. 11:38 AM - rib stitching (RBush96589@aol.com)
13. 12:24 PM - Re: rib stitching (gcardinal)
14. 01:31 PM - Re: rib stitching (walt evans)
15. 03:32 PM - Re: (Gene Rambo)
16. 04:46 PM - Re: rib stitching (Peter W Johnson)
17. 05:23 PM - Re: rib stitching (Gene Rambo)
18. 06:10 PM - Re: Bending Flat Steel - fittings (Dick Navratil)
19. 06:31 PM - Re: Bending Flat Steel - fittings (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
20. 07:20 PM - rib stitching (RBush96589@aol.com)
21. 10:41 PM - Re: rib stitching (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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C'mon guys, not a single response to my question about the lower strut
fittings???? Maybe I should have thrown in a question about how to make
wire wheels, THAT is always good for about three weeks worth of
comments.
Surely someone can help me out here!
Gene
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Hi Gene,
The fuselage truss members, ash cross members and lower strut fittings
should all meet at a common location.
Consider the drawings mere "suggestions".......
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
C'mon guys, not a single response to my question about the lower strut
fittings???? Maybe I should have thrown in a question about how to make
wire wheels, THAT is always good for about three weeks worth of
comments.
Surely someone can help me out here!
Gene
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Gene,
I went back and reread your question. Think that you got no responses,
cause to give a good answer, one would have to have access to both sets
of plans. I, for one don't, so I couldn't really help.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
C'mon guys, not a single response to my question about the lower strut
fittings???? Maybe I should have thrown in a question about how to make
wire wheels, THAT is always good for about three weeks worth of
comments.
Surely someone can help me out here!
Gene
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
The side trusses do meet at a common location, 28 3/4 on both fuselages.
The difference is in the placement of the ash pieces on the '33
fuselage (which the F&G fuselage does not have) which dictates the
placement of the gear/strut fitting.
My question boils down to . . . is it important that the wing struts be
parallel?? Are they on most of your airplanes???
I would think that anyone who has built a '33 fuselage (I can't speak to
the later plans) would have noticed that the lower fittings are closer
together than the wing spars (i.e. the upper fittings) and dealt with
it, either by correcting it or leaving it as is. Which is it??
Thanks for any help . .
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal<mailto:gcardinal@mn.rr.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Hi Gene,
The fuselage truss members, ash cross members and lower strut fittings
should all meet at a common location.
Consider the drawings mere "suggestions".......
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo<mailto:GeneRambo@msn.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
C'mon guys, not a single response to my question about the lower
strut fittings???? Maybe I should have thrown in a question about how
to make wire wheels, THAT is always good for about three weeks worth of
comments.
Surely someone can help me out here!
Gene
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Walt, whether you have the other plans, are your struts parallel?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans<mailto:waltdak@verizon.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Gene,
I went back and reread your question. Think that you got no
responses, cause to give a good answer, one would have to have access
to both sets of plans. I, for one don't, so I couldn't really help.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo<mailto:GeneRambo@msn.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List:
C'mon guys, not a single response to my question about the lower
strut fittings???? Maybe I should have thrown in a question about how
to make wire wheels, THAT is always good for about three weeks worth of
comments.
Surely someone can help me out here!
Gene
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator placement question, etc |
I have always been rather partial to this set up.
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=19
michael silvius
scarborough, maine
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Gene,
I just ran into the very same problem. I was in a quandry with it for the
longest time. I finally decided to just go with what was there and have my
struts be a little out of parallel. I don't think anybody can detect it when
it is finished.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Thanks, Dan, that is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Now,
is this the consensus or have other people noticed it and dealt with it
differently?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew@aol.com<mailto:HelsperSew@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Gene,
I just ran into the very same problem. I was in a quandry with it for
the longest time. I finally decided to just go with what was there and
have my struts be a little out of parallel. I don't think anybody can
detect it when it is finished.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Gene,
Think it's more than a beauty thing. If they aren't parallel ( and I
don't know if mine are or not. Got to get the the airport and actually
measure. Can't go by the CL of the crossmembers, cause the strut holes
aren't in the center of the bracket.)
Gets to, if you have to move the wing back, with non-parallel struts,
you would create a wash-in/out at the wingtips.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Thanks, Dan, that is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Now, is this the consensus or have other people noticed it and dealt
with it differently?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Gene,
I just ran into the very same problem. I was in a quandry with it
for the longest time. I finally decided to just go with what was there
and have my struts be a little out of parallel. I don't think anybody
can detect it when it is finished.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Gene, from a safety stand point I would have to guess that, given the
age of the design, there as just as many Pietenpols flying with the
struts build as design as there are ones where people change it. Both
seem to have work, as no one seems to be falling from the sky. So if
you don't like it change it, but I don't think you need to.
Walt is right about non-parallel struts changing the geometry when
moving the wing back (to get the GC correct). But this may be a moot
point if everything else is just slightly out of perfect, like on my
plane. Also, the vertical struts are two different heights which might
throw you out of alignment as well. I think the important part is to
have the lower fittings line up with a cluster so it can distribute the
loads to the fuselage.
I'm trying to get my tailwheel finished this week so I can start on my
Jenny gear too.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Thanks, Dan, that is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Now, is this the consensus or have other people noticed it and dealt
with it differently?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Gene,
I just ran into the very same problem. I was in a quandry with it
for the longest time. I finally decided to just go with what was there
and have my struts be a little out of parallel. I don't think anybody
can detect it when it is finished.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lift Strut Fittings |
In a message dated 8/20/2006 10:12:42 AM Central Standard Time,
GeneRambo@msn.com writes:
The side trusses do meet at a common location, 28 3/4 on both fuselages. Th
e
difference is in the placement of the ash pieces on the '33 fuselage (which
the F&G fuselage does not have) which dictates the placement of the gear/str
ut
fitting.
My question boils down to . . . is it important that the wing struts be
parallel?? Are they on most of your airplanes???
I would think that anyone who has built a '33 fuselage (I can't speak to the
later plans) would have noticed that the lower fittings are closer together
than the wing spars (i.e. the upper fittings) and dealt with it, either by
correcting it or leaving it as is. Which is it??
Thanks for any help . .
Gene
Gene,
To tell ya the truth, I don't know if the lower strut fittings on my plane i
s
28 3/4" apart, but I'll measure them next time I'm at the airport. It
stands to reason that the lift struts pivot points should be within 1/8" of
being
parallel, reason being the unique feature of the Pietenpol's movable wing
position. Keep in mind the entire usable arc is probably about 3=BA. I thi
nk the
reason for the 27 1/2" dimension called out between the fittings on DRAWING
NO.3, is because there is an offset of the pivot point of the lift struts (f
rom
the centerline of the fitting), to accommodate the flying wire attach point.
The important thing is to maintain enough edge distance of the holes in the
fitting and the wood.
Just exactly what is the dimension that you are coming up with between the
pivot points of the lower lift strut fittings ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 12
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can anyone tell me if i should rib stitch the stabilizer and elevators
thanks
Randy Bush
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Yes, they should be stitched.
----- Original Message -----
From: RBush96589@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
can anyone tell me if i should rib stitch the stabilizer and elevators
thanks
Randy Bush
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Randy,
Think the rule of thumb is no, but it's a great place to start and
practice. Funny, but everyone dreads the stitching, but when you're
done, you're looking for something else that,,,,,HHHMMMMM,,maybe needs
to be stitched!!
It , like covering,,,is a very rewarding task.
What percent of people on this earth can one day say that they
rib-stitched their own aircraft?? :^)
Ain't Life Grand.!!
walt evans
NX140DL
PS Yeah, I did mine.
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: RBush96589@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
can anyone tell me if i should rib stitch the stabilizer and elevators
thanks
Randy Bush
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
I'm not really worried, or even thinking about moving the wing. All
airplanes move the wing to correct for CG (biplanes or parasols anyway).
If I move the wing, the geometry is what it is.
What I am TRYING to get to is that in the '33 plans, the rear gear
fitting (and therefore strut fitting) does NOT line up with the cluster
of side trusses where they meet the longeron. The rear ash cross piece
is ahead of the cluster, making the gear fittings (and therefore strut
fitting) closer together than the upper end at the wing spars. I'm not
worried about safety, I have no doubt that it is plenty strong. I
wonder if this was an intentional change by BHP, or a mistake in the
drawings.
Like I have said, I would assume that everyone who has built a Piet has
reached this point and noticed the discrepancy. I want to know what
everyone has done about it. SHOULD the struts be parallel?? Does it
even matter???? It looks to me like if I move the rear fitting back to
the cluster (where the F&G and Hoopman plans show it) it makes the rear
gear leg have a really flat angle such that I am not sure it adds much
strength. Maybe BHP deliberately moved the fitting forward to reduce
the angle?? Those of us building the Jenny gear need to figure this
out. I know there are plenty of airplanes out there with Jenny gear,
what have those people done????
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Catdesigns<mailto:catdesigns@comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Gene, from a safety stand point I would have to guess that, given the
age of the design, there as just as many Pietenpols flying with the
struts build as design as there are ones where people change it. Both
seem to have work, as no one seems to be falling from the sky. So if
you don't like it change it, but I don't think you need to.
Walt is right about non-parallel struts changing the geometry when
moving the wing back (to get the GC correct). But this may be a moot
point if everything else is just slightly out of perfect, like on my
plane. Also, the vertical struts are two different heights which might
throw you out of alignment as well. I think the important part is to
have the lower fittings line up with a cluster so it can distribute the
loads to the fuselage.
I'm trying to get my tailwheel finished this week so I can start on my
Jenny gear too.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo<mailto:GeneRambo@msn.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Thanks, Dan, that is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Now, is this the consensus or have other people noticed it and dealt
with it differently?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew@aol.com<mailto:HelsperSew@aol.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Gene,
I just ran into the very same problem. I was in a quandry with it
for the longest time. I finally decided to just go with what was there
and have my struts be a little out of parallel. I don't think anybody
can detect it when it is finished.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 16
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Randy,
I did. As recommended in the Poly Fiber manual.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RBush96589@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 4:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
can anyone tell me if i should rib stitch the stabilizer and elevators
thanks
Randy Bush
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
--
18/08/2006
--
18/08/2006
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
Keep in mind, even if you do stitch the tail (which I do not think is
required) you can do single stitches with quarter-sized tapes at a
greater spacing. You'd be surprised how much weight you can save in a
critical area.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson<mailto:vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
Randy,
I did. As recommended in the Poly Fiber manual.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com<http://www.cpc-world.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-ser
ver@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of RBush96589@aol.com<mailto:RBush96589@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 4:38 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib stitching
can anyone tell me if i should rib stitch the stabilizer and elevators
thanks
Randy Bush
--
18/08/2006
--
18/08/2006
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Bending Flat Steel - fittings |
John
I bent mine around on a vise. I made the first bend to about 45 degrees
and then the second about the same, continue bending as best possible.
I then used a scrap piece of solid steel, approx 6"x8"x1" thick and used
it as a guide and closed the vice on it. I drilled holed in the steel
bar and used it as a cutting guide for bolt holes.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Flat Steel - fittings
I've been struggling to find a good method to bend flat steel to form
the "Upper Wing Fittings" (the pieces that wrap around the spars for the
cabane strut to attach). Does anyone have a good method to bend these
nicely short of using a finger brake? I can of coarse easily make the
first bend in the vise, but the second bend about 7/8" from the first
bend is the difficult one.
Do you guys also interlock the other piece of flat steel (for the
cabane strut to attach) between the bottom of the spar and the fitting
described above, or weld the tabs on to the fittings as the plan shows?
Thank you, and thanks for the recent sites of all the Pietenpol
photos.
John
Greenville, Wi.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Bending Flat Steel - fittings |
Harbor Freight has something called a "vise brake" It has a V way on one
side and an anvil on the other. It is magnetic and you open the jaws of
your vise and put it in place then close the vise on the metal and it
bends it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bending Flat Steel - fittings
John
I bent mine around on a vise. I made the first bend to about 45
degrees and then the second about the same, continue bending as best
possible. I then used a scrap piece of solid steel, approx 6"x8"x1"
thick and used it as a guide and closed the vice on it. I drilled holed
in the steel bar and used it as a cutting guide for bolt holes.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Flat Steel - fittings
I've been struggling to find a good method to bend flat steel to
form the "Upper Wing Fittings" (the pieces that wrap around the spars
for the cabane strut to attach). Does anyone have a good method to bend
these nicely short of using a finger brake? I can of coarse easily make
the first bend in the vise, but the second bend about 7/8" from the
first bend is the difficult one.
Do you guys also interlock the other piece of flat steel (for the
cabane strut to attach) between the bottom of the spar and the fitting
described above, or weld the tabs on to the fittings as the plan shows?
Thank you, and thanks for the recent sites of all the Pietenpol
photos.
John
Greenville, Wi.
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 20
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thanks every one for the response on the rib stitching. I got the
elevators,rudder,and vert. stab. done this afternoon,after you get the hang of
it it is
a satisfying thing to do. also,Mike Cuy if you read this I talked to you at
Brodhead about getting some sketches of your trim system,so if you get a
chance i would like to see them.
thanks
Randy Bush
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: rib stitching |
You dont HAVE to... But is a very rewarding experience to learn to stich your
flying surfaces, and the stabilizer and elevators is the perfect place to start
and learn before you go on with the wings... Very rewarding.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Mexico.
RBush96589@aol.com wrote: can anyone tell me if i should rib stitch the stabilizer
and elevators
thanks
Randy Bush
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