---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/26/06: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:29 AM - Re: Parallel struts and Gene's question (Graham Hansen) 2. 12:44 PM - Propellers, Jibarus, Corvairs (Michael Fisher) 3. 02:01 PM - Re: photo of an Ultra Piet in water-- attached (Clif Dawson) 4. 04:17 PM - Re: Parallel struts and Gene's question (Graham Hansen) 5. 05:37 PM - Re: photo of an Ultra Piet in water-- attached (Rick Holland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:44 AM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Parallel struts and Gene's question Gene, I went flying my Pietenpol last evening and had intended to check to see if the lift struts were parallel. It was a fine evening and I simply forgot to measure them after coming in from the last hop. But I will check on this today, for sure, and get back to you. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:38 PM PST US From: Michael Fisher Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propellers, Jibarus, Corvairs --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Michael Fisher Pietenpol list group, This is a copy of a note I just sent to some EAA friends. Here is some stuff you probably already knew. I ran across it on William Wynn's Corvair engine site. Sounds like the Xair will eventually work okay for you and your partner. The rib deformation and a few other things concern me. Prop disc loading is a big factor, especially in slow airplanes with direct drive engines. A large, slow turning airscrew is efficient at low speeds. This is hard to do with small displacement, fast turning, direct drive powerplants. A Prop that the Jibaru turned 2800 RPM static might perform better than one that turned 3000. In some cases, a slight decay of RPM as the airplane accelerates from a stop is a good indication. It means that the prop is grabbing more air as the flow over the outer blade sections improves. You might notice this effect in your Cub or Flybaby if you watch for it. A 15 RPM drop is hard to detect, and the absense of it is not neccesarily a bad thing. I believe we could get more useable thrust if we put as much tho ught into our airscrews as we do with our engines. The Wright brothers understood this very well. Good on ya, Mike From William Wynn's Corvair Site On the subject of Jabiru engines, most people are stunned to learn that there has ever been a broken crankshaft. One of the people I told this to accused me of making up the story for business purposes. I don't tolerate allegations like that well. Especially because the person who told me that a crank has broken in a Jabiru engine from excessive prop loads (not recommended by Jabiru) was Pete Krotie. Pete told me this when Grace Ellen and I walked over to his booth at Oshkosh this year. Perhaps the guy who didn't believe it might consider what Pete does for a job: He is, of course, the CEO of Jabiru USA. Before anybody jumps off on a tangent, I think the Jabiru 3,300 is an excellent engine. And although it's expensive, it's a very fine and high quality product represented by good people. We have friends who own them who have flown hundreds of hours and think they're good powerplants. My point is merely that the Corvair, VW and the Jabiru are restricted to light weight props, and no extensions because the common thread in all three designs is that they do not have an extended, long bearing in the front of the engine common to Lycomings and Continentals. Many Lycomings and Continentals can handle metal props and fly aerobatic routines. Pete showed us that the maximum allowable prop hub length for a Jabiru is virtually the same difference from the last bearing on the crankshaft on the 3,300 as is our prop hub face from the last bearing on a Corvair crankshaft. Pete additionally told us that Warp Drive props were acceptable, but only in diameters up to 60". Considering the amount of time that I have on 66" and 68" two-blade Warp Drives on Corvair engines, you could conlcude that the Corvair's crankshaft is at least as strong as the Jabiru's. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:24 PM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: photo of an Ultra Piet in water-- attached --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson To bad he didn't practice first. :-) Wheel landing on water is a bush flying technique. When there isn't enough sandbar to land on, ski up to it. Time it so that you're slowed almost to the point of sinking when you reach it and roll up the bar to a stop. Reverse the procedure to take off. The skiing trick is to use the brakes as a stopped wheel skis much better than a rolling one. Just remember to release same on arrival at the sandbar. :-) The first time I saw this I was in one of my rowboats off the gov. warf at the end of third st. I was probably 9 or 10 at the time. This yellow and blue plane coasted down, skied across the bay past me and climbed away. Nine years later I soloed in that same plane, CF-DQA. Check THIS out! http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/harvards.wmv > I hope everyone understands I was just being faucisious in my statement. > This is truely a very unfortunte event. I'm just glad the pilot is alright > and can live to do it again!...but next time...keep an extrat 12" > altitude....for good measure. > > Dave... (still looking to the East) (seriously) Down in Florida > >>> Guys-- I hope you enjoy this photo. I saved it after reading the >>> caption >>> about the guy flying it low over a river/lake and just touched >>> the wheels by accident and it flipped over near shore. He was able to >>> get >>> out, stand up in near the shore and said the camera that he >>> took this photo with didn't even get wet. >>> >>> Happy sailing ! >>> >>> Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:58 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Parallel struts and Gene's question Gene Rambo, I measured the distance between the front and rear struts at the fuselage and the distance at the outboard fittings at the wing spars. The attachment points at the fuselage are 1 3/4" closer together than at the outboard spar fittings and the struts are not parallel to each other, as a result. For the 36 years I have been flying this airplane, I assumed the struts were parallel. So did everyone else. The wing has been moved fore and aft a couple of times and there never was a problem in doing so. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:06 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: photo of an Ultra Piet in water-- attached That's really cool. Looks like having a faster and heavier aircraft with a lot of momentum would minimize the risk of ending up on your back. An Ultra-Piet doesn't fit that description. Rick On 8/26/06, Clif Dawson wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson > > To bad he didn't practice first. :-) > > Wheel landing on water is a bush flying technique. When there isn't > enough sandbar to land on, ski up to it. Time it so that you're slowed > almost to the point of sinking when you reach it and roll up the bar to > a stop. > > Reverse the procedure to take off. > > The skiing trick is to use the brakes as a stopped wheel skis much > better than a rolling one. Just remember to release same on arrival at > the sandbar. :-) > > The first time I saw this I was in one of my rowboats off the gov. warf > at the end of third st. I was probably 9 or 10 at the time. This yellow > and blue plane coasted down, skied across the bay past me and > climbed away. Nine years later I soloed in that same plane, CF-DQA. > > Check THIS out! > > http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/harvards.wmv > > > > I hope everyone understands I was just being faucisious in my statement. > > This is truely a very unfortunte event. I'm just glad the pilot is > alright > > and can live to do it again!...but next time...keep an extrat 12" > > altitude....for good measure. > > > > Dave... (still looking to the East) (seriously) Down in Florida > > > >>> Guys-- I hope you enjoy this photo. I saved it after reading the > >>> caption > >>> about the guy flying it low over a river/lake and just touched > >>> the wheels by accident and it flipped over near shore. He was able to > >>> get > >>> out, stand up in near the shore and said the camera that he > >>> took this photo with didn't even get wet. > >>> > >>> Happy sailing ! > >>> > >>> Mike C. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"