Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Re: First flight.. (bryan green)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: First flight.. (bryan green)
3. 07:26 AM - Re: First flight.. (Hans Vander Voort)
4. 08:01 AM - Re: First flight.. ()
5. 08:05 AM - Re: First flight.. ()
6. 08:41 AM - Re: First flight.. (Barry Davis)
7. 09:18 AM - Please delete original message! (Martin Vandenbroek)
8. 09:20 AM - Re: First flight.. ()
9. 06:52 PM - Re: First flight..First flight.. (Mark Smith)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: First flight.. |
If your doing a cross country flight monitor awos broadcast along the
way and reset your altimeter often.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: bike.mike
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
That's what sky divers do.
Pilots, on the other hand, set their altimeters to the altitude at
which the airplane sets. (If you were at Leadville, Colorado, and tried
to set your altimeter to zero, you would break it.)
Always set to actual field elevation when on the ground or to local
altimeter setting (sea-level equivalent barometric pressure, given in
inches of mercury) when flying. That way you don't have to get into
mental math when you go to a different field at a different elevation.
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
I noticed that some pilots set their altimeter to zero at the
location their plane is and others will add in the level they are above
sea level or what the book sez the airstrip is above sea level.What is
the correct way?In my own mind,I always figured it was good to zero at
the level you were at and go from there.Thanks for any info you can give
on this in advance.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: First flight.. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I'm confused, what does wind speed have to do with climb angle? I would much
rather climb out shallow 5 mph over stall then steep at 20 mph over. If your
flying along straight and level then cut your engine while trying to hold
altitude you will reach critical angle of attack at about 18 deg. and stall.
With only mother nature for power and no engine you will have to drop the
nose below level maybe 10 deg. to start flying again that's 28 deg. total
movement to start flying again.
Now if your climbing out at a 45 deg. deck angle and lose your engine
your relative wind goes away almost instantly which leaves you 45 deg. nose
up with at least 10 below level to start flying. That's 55 deg. total
movement to fly again. You will not have enough altitude to achieve this
before messing up a good airplane and runway.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> Jim,
>
> I am not, but perhaps I was not entirely clear.
> I was merely trying to make the point that paying attention to safe air
> speed is more important than the steep climb.
>
> I frequently take off in to a 10 Mph head wind ( this is 10 at ground
> level)
> At 500 feet this head wind can gradually increase to 20 Mph.
>
> Seen from the ground your have now a very steep climb ( your forward,
> ground speed is very slow)
> Yet, your AOA is less than stall angle.
>
> I do not believe you can get a high speed stall in Pietenpol, the speed
> range is fairly small.
> Did anyone ever achieve a snap roll in a Pietenpol ( someone was bragging
> about a Lomchevak once)
>
>
> (Embedded image moved to file: pic27446.jpg)
> .
>
> Hans
>
>
> "James Dallas"
> <BEC176@msn.com>
> Sent by: To
> owner-pietenpol-l <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> ist-server@matron cc
> ics.com
> Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> 09/18/2006 01:18
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> Hans, Don't confuse deck angle with angle of attack. It has to do with
> the
> relative air in which you are moving thru and it doesn't know whether you
> are climbing, descending or strait and level. With the nose pointed
> strait
> down you can exceed the critical angle of attack and get into a stall. Go
> to an airshow and watch the pros. To do a snap roll in a dive they are
> basically entering into a spin and to spin you must first stall.
>
> Jim Dallas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Vander Voort
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> The problem is Angle Of Attack, not the steep climb.
> With a high AOA you can have a stall well above stall speed.
>
> All this is not very likely with a Pietenpol as the speed range is not all
> that large.
>
> I suggest you make a number of test flights at different climb speeds and
> log the climb rate for each speed.
> You are looking for the best climb rate for normal operation.
>
> My Piet best initial climb rate is 750 ft/min at 55 Mph. (achieved on a
> cool winter day)
> This is measured over one minute beginning when lined up on the runway,
> (push stopwatch, push full throttle, count of one minute and log altitude)
> while speed never exceeds 55 Mph.
> Do this at 40 Mph and your have a higher AOA (steep attitude) but not a
> higher altitude at the end of the minute.
>
> Before you do all this check your stall speed first at safe altitude,
> Calibrate your ASI and practice, practice and practice slow speed fleet
> first.
>
> Typical stall speed of a Piet is around 30 Mph.
> And the above intial climb procedure should not be done below 40 Mph.
>
> If you want to test climb speeds at around 30 Mph than get some altitude
> first!
>
> Be safe!
>
> Hans
>
>
> Jeff Boatright
>
> <jboatri@emory.ed
>
> u> To
>
> Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> owner-pietenpol-l cc
>
> ist-server@matron
>
> ics.com Subject
>
> RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
>
>
> 09/18/2006 09:44
>
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem with a steep
> climb-out?
>
>
> At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, <harvey.rule@bell.ca> wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
> >
> >Take off was much better today but according to observers I was still
> >doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the plane up too far
> >and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are hard to correct.I
> >thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve more on the next
> >flight.
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: First flight.. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Bryan,
It all a matter perception, for spectators on the ground a strong head wind
will create the illusion of a steep climb angle
For the airplane and its pilot there is little difference if he maintains a
safe airspeed.
Ever "hovered" a Pietenpol in a strong head wind (30 - 40 Mph and going
nowhere)
Please do not try at low altitudes!
Be safe
Hans
"bryan green"
<lgreen1@sc.rr.co
m> To
Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
09/19/2006 06:10
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I'm confused, what does wind speed have to do with climb angle? I would
much
rather climb out shallow 5 mph over stall then steep at 20 mph over. If
your
flying along straight and level then cut your engine while trying to hold
altitude you will reach critical angle of attack at about 18 deg. and
stall.
With only mother nature for power and no engine you will have to drop the
nose below level maybe 10 deg. to start flying again that's 28 deg. total
movement to start flying again.
Now if your climbing out at a 45 deg. deck angle and lose your engine
your relative wind goes away almost instantly which leaves you 45 deg. nose
up with at least 10 below level to start flying. That's 55 deg. total
movement to fly again. You will not have enough altitude to achieve this
before messing up a good airplane and runway.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> Jim,
>
> I am not, but perhaps I was not entirely clear.
> I was merely trying to make the point that paying attention to safe air
> speed is more important than the steep climb.
>
> I frequently take off in to a 10 Mph head wind ( this is 10 at ground
> level)
> At 500 feet this head wind can gradually increase to 20 Mph.
>
> Seen from the ground your have now a very steep climb ( your forward,
> ground speed is very slow)
> Yet, your AOA is less than stall angle.
>
> I do not believe you can get a high speed stall in Pietenpol, the speed
> range is fairly small.
> Did anyone ever achieve a snap roll in a Pietenpol ( someone was bragging
> about a Lomchevak once)
>
>
> (Embedded image moved to file: pic27446.jpg)
> .
>
> Hans
>
>
> "James Dallas"
> <BEC176@msn.com>
> Sent by: To
> owner-pietenpol-l <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> ist-server@matron cc
> ics.com
> Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> 09/18/2006 01:18
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> Hans, Don't confuse deck angle with angle of attack. It has to do with
> the
> relative air in which you are moving thru and it doesn't know whether you
> are climbing, descending or strait and level. With the nose pointed
> strait
> down you can exceed the critical angle of attack and get into a stall.
Go
> to an airshow and watch the pros. To do a snap roll in a dive they are
> basically entering into a spin and to spin you must first stall.
>
> Jim Dallas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Vander Voort
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> The problem is Angle Of Attack, not the steep climb.
> With a high AOA you can have a stall well above stall speed.
>
> All this is not very likely with a Pietenpol as the speed range is not
all
> that large.
>
> I suggest you make a number of test flights at different climb speeds and
> log the climb rate for each speed.
> You are looking for the best climb rate for normal operation.
>
> My Piet best initial climb rate is 750 ft/min at 55 Mph. (achieved on a
> cool winter day)
> This is measured over one minute beginning when lined up on the runway,
> (push stopwatch, push full throttle, count of one minute and log
altitude)
> while speed never exceeds 55 Mph.
> Do this at 40 Mph and your have a higher AOA (steep attitude) but not a
> higher altitude at the end of the minute.
>
> Before you do all this check your stall speed first at safe altitude,
> Calibrate your ASI and practice, practice and practice slow speed fleet
> first.
>
> Typical stall speed of a Piet is around 30 Mph.
> And the above intial climb procedure should not be done below 40 Mph.
>
> If you want to test climb speeds at around 30 Mph than get some altitude
> first!
>
> Be safe!
>
> Hans
>
>
> Jeff Boatright
>
> <jboatri@emory.ed
>
> u>
To
>
> Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> owner-pietenpol-l
cc
>
> ist-server@matron
>
> ics.com
Subject
>
> RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
>
>
> 09/18/2006 09:44
>
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem with a steep
> climb-out?
>
>
> At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, <harvey.rule@bell.ca> wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
> >
> >Take off was much better today but according to observers I was still
> >doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the plane up too far
> >and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are hard to correct.I
> >thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve more on the next
> >flight.
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
Message 4
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|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
I have actually flown backwards in a Lazair ultralight and this same
thing has happened to a few pilots in the Bermuda triangle which have
made them think they were some where else when in fact they were not
there at all.GPS has probably helped solve this problem.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: September 19, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Bryan,
It all a matter perception, for spectators on the ground a strong head
wind
will create the illusion of a steep climb angle
For the airplane and its pilot there is little difference if he
maintains a
safe airspeed.
Ever "hovered" a Pietenpol in a strong head wind (30 - 40 Mph and going
nowhere)
Please do not try at low altitudes!
Be safe
Hans
"bryan green"
<lgreen1@sc.rr.co
m>
To
Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: First
flight..
09/19/2006 06:10
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I'm confused, what does wind speed have to do with climb angle? I would
much
rather climb out shallow 5 mph over stall then steep at 20 mph over. If
your
flying along straight and level then cut your engine while trying to
hold
altitude you will reach critical angle of attack at about 18 deg. and
stall.
With only mother nature for power and no engine you will have to drop
the
nose below level maybe 10 deg. to start flying again that's 28 deg.
total
movement to start flying again.
Now if your climbing out at a 45 deg. deck angle and lose your
engine
your relative wind goes away almost instantly which leaves you 45 deg.
nose
up with at least 10 below level to start flying. That's 55 deg. total
movement to fly again. You will not have enough altitude to achieve this
before messing up a good airplane and runway.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> Jim,
>
> I am not, but perhaps I was not entirely clear.
> I was merely trying to make the point that paying attention to safe
air
> speed is more important than the steep climb.
>
> I frequently take off in to a 10 Mph head wind ( this is 10 at ground
> level)
> At 500 feet this head wind can gradually increase to 20 Mph.
>
> Seen from the ground your have now a very steep climb ( your forward,
> ground speed is very slow)
> Yet, your AOA is less than stall angle.
>
> I do not believe you can get a high speed stall in Pietenpol, the
speed
> range is fairly small.
> Did anyone ever achieve a snap roll in a Pietenpol ( someone was
bragging
> about a Lomchevak once)
>
>
> (Embedded image moved to file: pic27446.jpg)
> .
>
> Hans
>
>
> "James Dallas"
> <BEC176@msn.com>
> Sent by:
To
> owner-pietenpol-l <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> ist-server@matron
cc
> ics.com
>
Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: First
flight..
> 09/18/2006 01:18
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> Hans, Don't confuse deck angle with angle of attack. It has to do
with
> the
> relative air in which you are moving thru and it doesn't know whether
you
> are climbing, descending or strait and level. With the nose pointed
> strait
> down you can exceed the critical angle of attack and get into a stall.
Go
> to an airshow and watch the pros. To do a snap roll in a dive they
are
> basically entering into a spin and to spin you must first stall.
>
> Jim Dallas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Vander Voort
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> The problem is Angle Of Attack, not the steep climb.
> With a high AOA you can have a stall well above stall speed.
>
> All this is not very likely with a Pietenpol as the speed range is not
all
> that large.
>
> I suggest you make a number of test flights at different climb speeds
and
> log the climb rate for each speed.
> You are looking for the best climb rate for normal operation.
>
> My Piet best initial climb rate is 750 ft/min at 55 Mph. (achieved on
a
> cool winter day)
> This is measured over one minute beginning when lined up on the
runway,
> (push stopwatch, push full throttle, count of one minute and log
altitude)
> while speed never exceeds 55 Mph.
> Do this at 40 Mph and your have a higher AOA (steep attitude) but not
a
> higher altitude at the end of the minute.
>
> Before you do all this check your stall speed first at safe altitude,
> Calibrate your ASI and practice, practice and practice slow speed
fleet
> first.
>
> Typical stall speed of a Piet is around 30 Mph.
> And the above intial climb procedure should not be done below 40 Mph.
>
> If you want to test climb speeds at around 30 Mph than get some
altitude
> first!
>
> Be safe!
>
> Hans
>
>
> Jeff Boatright
>
> <jboatri@emory.ed
>
> u>
To
>
> Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> owner-pietenpol-l
cc
>
> ist-server@matron
>
> ics.com
Subject
>
> RE: Pietenpol-List: First
flight..
>
>
> 09/18/2006 09:44
>
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright
<jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem with a steep
> climb-out?
>
>
> At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, <harvey.rule@bell.ca> wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
> >
> >Take off was much better today but according to observers I was still
> >doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the plane up too
far
> >and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are hard to
correct.I
> >thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve more on the next
> >flight.
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
Message 5
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|
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
A good head wind makes a lot of difference .Case in point was the
attempt by the establishment to reinact the Wright Brother flight at
Kitty Hawk.They didn't have the head wind that the Wrights had and
ultimately they didn't get airborn which was the whole reason for going
to Kitty Hawk in the first place.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan
green
Sent: September 19, 2006 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bryan green" <lgreen1@sc.rr.com>
I'm confused, what does wind speed have to do with climb angle? I would
much
rather climb out shallow 5 mph over stall then steep at 20 mph over. If
your
flying along straight and level then cut your engine while trying to
hold
altitude you will reach critical angle of attack at about 18 deg. and
stall.
With only mother nature for power and no engine you will have to drop
the
nose below level maybe 10 deg. to start flying again that's 28 deg.
total
movement to start flying again.
Now if your climbing out at a 45 deg. deck angle and lose your
engine
your relative wind goes away almost instantly which leaves you 45 deg.
nose
up with at least 10 below level to start flying. That's 55 deg. total
movement to fly again. You will not have enough altitude to achieve this
before messing up a good airplane and runway.
Bryan Green (Elgin SC)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> Jim,
>
> I am not, but perhaps I was not entirely clear.
> I was merely trying to make the point that paying attention to safe
air
> speed is more important than the steep climb.
>
> I frequently take off in to a 10 Mph head wind ( this is 10 at ground
> level)
> At 500 feet this head wind can gradually increase to 20 Mph.
>
> Seen from the ground your have now a very steep climb ( your forward,
> ground speed is very slow)
> Yet, your AOA is less than stall angle.
>
> I do not believe you can get a high speed stall in Pietenpol, the
speed
> range is fairly small.
> Did anyone ever achieve a snap roll in a Pietenpol ( someone was
bragging
> about a Lomchevak once)
>
>
> (Embedded image moved to file: pic27446.jpg)
> .
>
> Hans
>
>
> "James Dallas"
> <BEC176@msn.com>
> Sent by:
To
> owner-pietenpol-l <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> ist-server@matron
cc
> ics.com
>
Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: First
flight..
> 09/18/2006 01:18
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> Hans, Don't confuse deck angle with angle of attack. It has to do
with
> the
> relative air in which you are moving thru and it doesn't know whether
you
> are climbing, descending or strait and level. With the nose pointed
> strait
> down you can exceed the critical angle of attack and get into a stall.
Go
> to an airshow and watch the pros. To do a snap roll in a dive they
are
> basically entering into a spin and to spin you must first stall.
>
> Jim Dallas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Vander Voort
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:16 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Hans Vander Voort <
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> The problem is Angle Of Attack, not the steep climb.
> With a high AOA you can have a stall well above stall speed.
>
> All this is not very likely with a Pietenpol as the speed range is not
all
> that large.
>
> I suggest you make a number of test flights at different climb speeds
and
> log the climb rate for each speed.
> You are looking for the best climb rate for normal operation.
>
> My Piet best initial climb rate is 750 ft/min at 55 Mph. (achieved on
a
> cool winter day)
> This is measured over one minute beginning when lined up on the
runway,
> (push stopwatch, push full throttle, count of one minute and log
altitude)
> while speed never exceeds 55 Mph.
> Do this at 40 Mph and your have a higher AOA (steep attitude) but not
a
> higher altitude at the end of the minute.
>
> Before you do all this check your stall speed first at safe altitude,
> Calibrate your ASI and practice, practice and practice slow speed
fleet
> first.
>
> Typical stall speed of a Piet is around 30 Mph.
> And the above intial climb procedure should not be done below 40 Mph.
>
> If you want to test climb speeds at around 30 Mph than get some
altitude
> first!
>
> Be safe!
>
> Hans
>
>
> Jeff Boatright
>
> <jboatri@emory.ed
>
> u>
To
>
> Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> owner-pietenpol-l
cc
>
> ist-server@matron
>
> ics.com
Subject
>
> RE: Pietenpol-List: First
flight..
>
>
> 09/18/2006 09:44
>
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright
<jboatri@emory.edu>
>
> If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem with a steep
> climb-out?
>
>
> At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, <harvey.rule@bell.ca> wrote:
> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
> >
> >Take off was much better today but according to observers I was still
> >doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the plane up too
far
> >and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are hard to
correct.I
> >thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve more on the next
> >flight.
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: First flight.. |
Only an aerobatic pilot will set at zero to fly an airshow. Then set it
to field elevation to fly home.
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
I noticed that some pilots set their altimeter to zero at the location
their plane is and others will add in the level they are above sea level
or what the book sez the airstrip is above sea level.What is the correct
way?In my own mind,I always figured it was good to zero at the level you
were at and go from there.Thanks for any info you can give on this in
advance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: September 18, 2006 1:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
Gary,
Thank you for making AGL clear. I made an error when I assumed I was
making it clear. It's that kind of mistake that can get someone killed.
Again, thank you
Gene----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
Hello Jeff,
One very important note: The 2,500 ft that Gene is talking about in
this test have to be above ground level, or ASL if you do the test
over the ocean...
3 friends from our club have died from take off stall (in 15
years)...
Is the worse thing to happen... all the friends are watching the
pilot get killed. Very sad, one has to notify the family... Worse.
Also explain to our families and friends that aviation is safe, at
every reunion for years Too much work, Lets all fly safe please.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene & Tammy"
Jeff,
I'd like to throw my two cents in on the question "what's wrong with
a steep
climb out?".
I come from a back ground of both general avation and two stroke
airplanes
and I'm familiar with both. I currently own and fly a Piet (N502R)
with a
Continental A 65 and my plane before it was an Avid with a 75 HP 2
stroke.
Plus I've owned and flown a number of others. Loved them all.
The problem with a steep climb out on take off is if your engine
quites you
won't have time to get the nose down into a glide (flying speed)
before you
return to earth. Not good on airframes or human anatomy. I've spent
most
of my life in Alaska and it has never stopped amazing me how many
Alaskan
pilots manage to kill themselves and others with a steep climb out.
One
friend of mine (and a very experienced pilot) took off from his home
field
in his Super Cub with his small son and his father-in-law on board.
His
wife and mother-in-law were watching from their living room window.
Steep
climb out, engine died and so did all three on board (with wife and
mother-in-law still watching.). That next winter another pilot that
we had
both known was killed doing the same thing from a frozen lake. He
had put
his cub into a steep takeoff climb, showing off to his friends on
the
ground. He died because he had neglected to turn on his fuel switch
and in
a steep climbout he just didn't have the speed or altitude to keep
from
stalling out.
Try this. Go up to about 2500 or higher, put your plane into a steep
climb
just above stall speed, note your altitude and turn the engine off.
Once
you have your plane back under control and your flying again note
your
altitude and restart your engine. It'll make a believer out of you.
The way I look at it, is that I do enough dumb things while flying
that I
don't need to do the dumb things that I know will get me killed.
Gene
riginal Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright
>
> If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem with a steep
> climb-out?
>
>
>
> At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, wrote:
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
>>
>>Take off was much better today but according to observers I was
still
>>doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the plane up
too far
>>and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are hard to
correct.I
>>thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve more on the
next
>>flight.
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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|
Subject: | Please delete original message! |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Martin Vandenbroek <mav@ece.ucsb.edu>
This is for all Piet listers.
When responding to other posts please delete the original, we are all
reading the same messages and are familiar with the thread you are
responding to. It clutters up the list and I'm sure it affects the
bandwidth requirements. Matt Dralle also mentions this on occasion
but it continues to happen.
Just highlight the original (or portions of it) and delete before
sending your response, OR send a private message to the sender if it
only applies to him.
Love the list though. Read every day!
--
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once."
John Archibald Wheeler
Message 8
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|
Thanks to all who replyed on this.it is now clear to me that it depends
on the circumstances that dictate how it is set up.Both are right in
there own case.Since I very seldom travel much more than a few miles
away from my home base at this time I think I will zero at the ground I
take off from and when I decide to go on a long trip I will then adjust
to the field level ASL.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Davis
Sent: September 19, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
Only an aerobatic pilot will set at zero to fly an airshow. Then set it
to field elevation to fly home.
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
I noticed that some pilots set their altimeter to zero at the
location their plane is and others will add in the level they are above
sea level or what the book sez the airstrip is above sea level.What is
the correct way?In my own mind,I always figured it was good to zero at
the level you were at and go from there.Thanks for any info you can give
on this in advance.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: September 18, 2006 1:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
Gary,
Thank you for making AGL clear. I made an error when I assumed
I was making it clear. It's that kind of mistake that can get someone
killed.
Again, thank you
Gene----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower <mailto:ggower_99@yahoo.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
Hello Jeff,
One very important note: The 2,500 ft that Gene is
talking about in this test have to be above ground level, or ASL if
you do the test over the ocean...
3 friends from our club have died from take off stall
(in 15 years)...
Is the worse thing to happen... all the friends are
watching the pilot get killed. Very sad, one has to notify the
family... Worse. Also explain to our families and friends that
aviation is safe, at every reunion for years Too much work, Lets all
fly safe please.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene & Tammy"
Jeff,
I'd like to throw my two cents in on the question
"what's wrong with a steep
climb out?".
I come from a back ground of both general avation and
two stroke airplanes
and I'm familiar with both. I currently own and fly a
Piet (N502R) with a
Continental A 65 and my plane before it was an Avid with
a 75 HP 2 stroke.
Plus I've owned and flown a number of others. Loved them
all.
The problem with a steep climb out on take off is if
your engine quites you
won't have time to get the nose down into a glide
(flying speed) before you
return to earth. Not good on airframes or human anatomy.
I've spent most
of my life in Alaska and it has never stopped amazing me
how many Alaskan
pilots manage to kill themselves and others with a steep
climb out. One
friend of mine (and a very experienced pilot) took off
from his home field
in his Super Cub with his small son and his
father-in-law on board. His
wife and mother-in-law were watching from their living
room window. Steep
climb out, engine died and so did all three on board
(with wife and
mother-in-law still watching.). That next winter another
pilot that we had
both known was killed doing the same thing from a frozen
lake. He had put
his cub into a steep takeoff climb, showing off to his
friends on the
ground. He died because he had neglected to turn on his
fuel switch and in
a steep climbout he just didn't have the speed or
altitude to keep from
stalling out.
Try this. Go up to about 2500 or higher, put your plane
into a steep climb
just above stall speed, note your altitude and turn the
engine off. Once
you have your plane back under control and your flying
again note your
altitude and restart your engine. It'll make a believer
out of you.
The way I look at it, is that I do enough dumb things
while flying that I
don't need to do the dumb things that I know will get me
killed.
Gene
riginal Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright
>
> If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem
with a steep
> climb-out?
>
>
>
> At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, wrote:
>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
>>
>>Take off was much better today but according to
observers I was still
>>doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the
plane up too far
>>and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are
hard to correct.I
>>thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve
more on the next
>>flight.
>
> --
>
>
_____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA,
USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision,
http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Re: First flight..First flight.. |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mark Smith" <marksmith1956@hotmail.com>
<<I noticed that some pilots set their altimeter to zero at the location
their plane is and others will add in the level they are above sea
level
or what the book sez the airstrip is above sea level.What is the
correct
way?In my own mind,I always figured it was good to zero at the level
you
were at and go from there.Thanks for any info you can give on this in
advance.>>
FAR 91.121 states, in part, that the altimeter is set to "...the elevation
of the departure airport or an appropriate altimeter setting available
before departure..." For at least the following three reasons this is the
proper procedure:
1) The altimeter references your location in the third dimension of space.
In a radio-equipped environment, reported altitude provides a better chance
of separation between aircraft. If I report that I am over the airport at
3,500 feet, I mean above sea level, as reported by reading my altimeter, set
to the current altimeter setting or field elevation before departure.
2) Elevation figures on sectional charts provide an MSL figure in bold
type, which is close to what a pilot will observe with a properly set
altimeter. The smaller numeral is the above ground level heighth of the
obstruction. Remember, the top number is where you're going to hit it, and
the bottom number is how far you're going to fall.
3) Consider what you will do if, after you depart the airport with the
altimeter zeroed, the airport is closed behind you and you cannot legally
(or safely) return to it. Your altimeter now reports a garbage in-garbage
out altitude as you divert to your alternate field. The elevation
difference between my home field and the closest alternate is nearly 300
feet. And there are unlighted towers in between them.
Sorry for the long and pedantic first post. But as Gary said a day or two
ago, we need to be safe out there. And I'm speaking from the perspective of
someone who has lost a friend when he flew into a tower in the scud with
possibly a mis-set altimeter. Thanks for making me dust off my FAR-AIM!
Mark Smith
Ground Instructor and List-Lurker
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