Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - Fuse construction (Dan Loegering)
2. 06:30 AM - Re: Fuse construction (Lou Wither)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Fuse construction (Roman Bukolt)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: First flight.. (Frank Metcalfe)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Fuse construction (Dick Navratil)
6. 11:48 AM - FW: Fuse construction (Bill Church)
7. 12:05 PM - Re: Fuse construction ()
8. 01:17 PM - Re: Fuse construction (Gordon Bowen)
9. 05:04 PM - Re: Fuse construction (Don Emch)
10. 06:38 PM - Re: Fuse construction (gcardinal)
11. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Fuse construction (Rick Holland)
12. 07:24 PM - Re: Fuse construction (Gordon Bowen)
13. 08:25 PM - Re: FW: Fuse construction (Rcaprd@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Fuse construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
Since it has been rather quiet out here lately, I thought I'd post a building question
to see what kind of tips everyone has.
We should have wood for the fuselages arriving within a week or two and will start
construction on fuse sides shortly after that. The question is... Were there
any points during building the fuselage that you were stumped at, or that
were not entirely clear - and if so, what did you do to resolve the problem you
encountered.
A short history - There are currently two Piet's being constructed locally, with
a third to start as soon as the wood shows up. The first two are progressing
nicely with all wing ribs complete, and all tail surfaces complete. Both will
be powered by A65-8 engines. The third will begin rib construction and he hasn't
decided on engine choice yet. Of the two currently under construction,
we are planning on the long fuselage version - one at stock 24" width, and one
either 26" or 28". Both will have the "Cub" style gear.
So, relive your building days! What did you enjoy, what did you find challenging,
what did you hate...
Of course the reward will come when we are finished, and some day all three of
us fly to Brodhead in loose formation!
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
You might want to ask questions about CG. I built mine with an extened engine
mount and moved the wing back 2" as part of the construction and I am still struggling
with an aft CG situation. I have a C-85-12 with starter and generator
(which I used for additional weight) on the front. Although I am pretty heavy,
230 lbs, I can still use a little more ballast on the engine.
Lou Wither
N799LJ
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
Cub style gear?? Those must be GN-1's not Pietenpol. The GN-1 is a
modified Pietenpol with enough changes to no longer be called a Pietenpol.
I believe the cub gear mounting changes the location of the axle compared
the Piet. Also the GN-1 has a modified airfoil with a different leading
edge. That said, are you building from authentic Pietrenpol plans or the
GN-1 plans?
About the fuselage, the only challenge I faced was devising a sanding drum
set-up to scarf the edges of the mating joint of the two pieces of plywood
doublers on the sides of the fuse.
I did not have to steam the longerons to pull the tail together.
I use the West Epoxy system for all my construction.
I used an office stapler to staple the gussets to the ribs and the fuselage
rather than the tiny brads. Much quicker and easier.
The only other challenge so far was to find an economical metal cutting
bandsaw.
I finally converted my wood cutting bandsaw to a multispeed using a DC motor
with speed control.
Roman Bukolt
Building a Corvair powered Pietenpol NX88XN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Dan Loegering"
> <danl@odayequipment.com>
>
> Since it has been rather quiet out here lately, I thought I'd post a
> building question to see what kind of tips everyone has.
>
> We should have wood for the fuselages arriving within a week or two and
> will start construction on fuse sides shortly after that. The question
> is... Were there any points during building the fuselage that you were
> stumped at, or that were not entirely clear - and if so, what did you do
> to resolve the problem you encountered.
>
> A short history - There are currently two Piet's being constructed
> locally, with a third to start as soon as the wood shows up. The first
> two are progressing nicely with all wing ribs complete, and all tail
> surfaces complete. Both will be powered by A65-8 engines. The third will
> begin rib construction and he hasn't decided on engine choice yet. Of the
> two currently under construction, we are planning on the long fuselage
> version - one at stock 24" width, and one either 26" or 28". Both will
> have the "Cub" style gear.
>
> So, relive your building days! What did you enjoy, what did you find
> challenging, what did you hate...
>
> Of course the reward will come when we are finished, and some day all
> three of us fly to Brodhead in loose formation!
>
> Dan Loegering
> Fargo, ND
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Frank Metcalfe" <fmetcalf@bellsouth.net>
Remember !! A Aircraft will stall at any airspeed but allways at the same
angle of attack !!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First flight..
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
If you're well above stall speed, what is the problem with a steep
climb-out?
At 7:17 PM -0400 9/16/06, <harvey.rule@bell.ca> wrote:
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
>
>Take off was much better today but according to observers I was still
>doing the ultralight thing by bringing the nose of the plane up too far
>and taking off at too sharpe an angle.Old habits are hard to correct.I
>thought I did it a lot better.I'll have to improve more on the next
>flight.
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
Hane you installed your battery yet? That can add 25 lb to the
firewall. You can also move the wing back 1 more inch, that will also
help. Mine is back 4 1/2". I built a short fuse, not knowing at the
start what engine to use. After deciding on an A-65 I also added a 4
gal reserve nose tank, a battery to the FW to get CG.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lou Wither
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
You might want to ask questions about CG. I built mine with an
extened engine mount and moved the wing back 2" as part of the
construction and I am still struggling with an aft CG situation. I have
a C-85-12 with starter and generator (which I used for additional
weight) on the front. Although I am pretty heavy, 230 lbs, I can still
use a little more ballast on the engine.
Lou Wither
N799LJ
Message 6
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Subject: | Fuse construction |
> <<20060917_134.JPG>>
>
> I think the key word here is "style". Cub style gear, not actual Cub
> gear.
> The 1933/34 improved Pietenpol Air Camper plans show a split axle "Cub
> style" landing gear. The GN-1 was designed to use actual Piper Cub
> landing gear. So it is possible to have an authentic Pietenpol Air
> Camper with Cub style gear. You need to go back to the Flying and
> Glider plans to get the straight axle "Jenny style" gear. And that is
> authentic Pietenpol too, since it's not actual Jenny gear either.
>
> Speaking of landing gear, I was at an open house for the Tiger Boys,
> up in Guelph, Ontario (Canada) last weekend (got a short ride in a
> deHavilland Tiger Moth, piloted by a Hatz builder - that was cool). A
> couple of WW1 replicas flew in from nearby Brampton - a Fokker DR-1
> and an S.E.5a. The S.E.5a had interesting landing gear (see photo
> attached). It appears to be varnished wood, similar to the Jenny-style
> Pietenpol gear, but if you look closely, you'll notice that it's
> actually streamlined steel tubing, painted to look like wood. This
> same technique could be applied to the Pietenpol Cub STYLE gear,
> giving the strength of steel, and the look of wood.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Roman Bukolt"
> --> <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>
> Cub style gear?? Those must be GN-1's not Pietenpol. The GN-1 is a
>
> modified Pietenpol with enough changes to no longer be called a
> Pietenpol.
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Fuse construction |
When does the plane actually begin to become a gn-1 ?Is it after the
first mod or the last one?A Rose by any other name is still a Rose.So it
is with the Pietenpol.Mine has gn-1 mods but the plans still say
Pietenpol.People who see it say "oh you have a Pietenpol".I don't
correct them and say it is a gn-1,that would be rude.I think,you know
your absolutely right ,it is a Pietenpol,you get a gummy bear!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: September 22, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
<<20060917_134.JPG>>
I think the key word here is "style". Cub style gear, not actual Cub
gear.
The 1933/34 improved Pietenpol Air Camper plans show a split axle "Cub
style" landing gear. The GN-1 was designed to use actual Piper Cub
landing gear. So it is possible to have an authentic Pietenpol Air
Camper with Cub style gear. You need to go back to the Flying and Glider
plans to get the straight axle "Jenny style" gear. And that is authentic
Pietenpol too, since it's not actual Jenny gear either.
Speaking of landing gear, I was at an open house for the Tiger Boys, up
in Guelph, Ontario (Canada) last weekend (got a short ride in a
deHavilland Tiger Moth, piloted by a Hatz builder - that was cool). A
couple of WW1 replicas flew in from nearby Brampton - a Fokker DR-1 and
an S.E.5a. The S.E.5a had interesting landing gear (see photo attached).
It appears to be varnished wood, similar to the Jenny-style Pietenpol
gear, but if you look closely, you'll notice that it's actually
streamlined steel tubing, painted to look like wood. This same technique
could be applied to the Pietenpol Cub STYLE gear, giving the strength of
steel, and the look of wood.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Roman Bukolt"
--> <conceptmodels@tds.net>
Cub style gear?? Those must be GN-1's not Pietenpol. The GN-1 is a
modified Pietenpol with enough changes to no longer be called a
Pietenpol.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
FW: Pietenpol-List: Fuse constructionI don't think anyone actually
builds the exact plane that Pietenpol designed, too many modern
materials available and necessary. Afterall who'd want to use a tractor
mag when there are better options, or grade 3 bolts. Same goes for the
original Rutan designs for the Varieze and Longeze, every builder adds
or subtracts their own mods. That's why it's called experimental. But
we still have the purist out there that insist it ain't a Piete unless
it is build just like Bernard did, fer git abouut it dreamers.
N-1003B's 4130 fuselage, 0-235Lycosauros engine and Aeronca wings, flies
just fine thanks. Got $5 bucks that says my "Piete" can beat anyone out
there's Piete in time to climb to 3000' agl, even the purist, how about
Lakeland in Apr07. Better materials make better planes, just like the
Papa John's Pizza commercial. Think Bernard would appreciate the
improvements and still be proud to stick his name on the design.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule@bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
When does the plane actually begin to become a gn-1 ?Is it after the
first mod or the last one?A Rose by any other name is still a Rose.So it
is with the Pietenpol.Mine has gn-1 mods but the plans still say
Pietenpol.People who see it say "oh you have a Pietenpol".I don't
correct them and say it is a gn-1,that would be rude.I think,you know
your absolutely right ,it is a Pietenpol,you get a gummy bear!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: September 22, 2006 2:48 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
<<20060917_134.JPG>>
I think the key word here is "style". Cub style gear, not actual Cub
gear.
The 1933/34 improved Pietenpol Air Camper plans show a split axle "Cub
style" landing gear. The GN-1 was designed to use actual Piper Cub
landing gear. So it is possible to have an authentic Pietenpol Air
Camper with Cub style gear. You need to go back to the Flying and Glider
plans to get the straight axle "Jenny style" gear. And that is authentic
Pietenpol too, since it's not actual Jenny gear either.
Speaking of landing gear, I was at an open house for the Tiger Boys,
up in Guelph, Ontario (Canada) last weekend (got a short ride in a
deHavilland Tiger Moth, piloted by a Hatz builder - that was cool). A
couple of WW1 replicas flew in from nearby Brampton - a Fokker DR-1 and
an S.E.5a. The S.E.5a had interesting landing gear (see photo attached).
It appears to be varnished wood, similar to the Jenny-style Pietenpol
gear, but if you look closely, you'll notice that it's actually
streamlined steel tubing, painted to look like wood. This same technique
could be applied to the Pietenpol Cub STYLE gear, giving the strength of
steel, and the look of wood.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Roman Bukolt"
--> <conceptmodels@tds.net>
Cub style gear?? Those must be GN-1's not Pietenpol. The GN-1 is a
modified Pietenpol with enough changes to no longer be called a
Pietenpol.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
Hello Dan,
In thinking back, I believe the fuselage was fairly straight forward. There may
be some searching for measurements in other places on the plans. Once you build
up the sides it would probably be a good idea to build a jig to bring the
sides together, upside down since the top longeron is flat. I would start from
the front and work back to the tail in installing the cross-braces. Squareness
is obviously important. I wouldn't make any metal fittings until the woodwork
is finished. Seem to get a better fit if you build them to your specific
fuselage. I'd leave the firewall off until all the fittings and controls were
built, gets a little tight in there. I made the front seat framework permanent
but made the plywood seat removeable to service the rudder bar. I routed
the elevator cables through pulleys where they go under the seat. Helps for a
little smoother movement. It's a good idea to beef up the instrument panels
with laminated wood bows glued to the plywood. Adds a lot of strength for a very
small weight penalty. Really, really resist the urge to add much of anything.
The fuselage is quite strong if built with quality wood and good tight joints.
I've found that out with some not so great landings! Try not to add much
to the panel, you won't use it anyway. The view outside is much better than
looking at the panel. If you build it like the plans and expect a 1930's airplane
you won't regret it.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63306#63306
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
FW: Pietenpol-List: Fuse constructionGordon,
Greg Bacon just might take you up on this bet when he gets Mountain Piet
back in the air.......
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
N-1003B's 4130 fuselage, 0-235Lycosauros engine and Aeronca wings,
flies just fine thanks. Got $5 bucks that says my "Piete" can beat
anyone out there's Piete in time to climb to 3000' agl,
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
Dan
I have almost completed a long fuselage with a two inch increased cockpit
width. One thing that really helped me was building a mock cockpit out of
scrap wood as Bengelis recommends. I built it to the plans (held together
with deck screws initially) and then sat in it and asked myself if I really
needs more cockpit width (I did) and if it may be a little more comfortable
if the seat back was leaned back a bit (leaned mine two inches). Also added
an inch to the height of the instrument panels and a couple inches to the
height of the rear turtle deck.
When it comes time to add your landing gear you will want to consider deck
angle and if adding brakes and tailwheel possibly moving the main gear
forward a bit. You will find reams of info on these subjects in a archives.
My deck angle ended up at 12 degrees and I moved the mains forward three
inches, however since I have never flown this thing I can't recommend
changing anything.
Rick Holland
On 9/22/06, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
>
> Hello Dan,
> In thinking back, I believe the fuselage was fairly straight
> forward. There may be some searching for measurements in other places on
> the plans. Once you build up the sides it would probably be a good idea to
> build a jig to bring the sides together, upside down since the top longeron
> is flat. I would start from the front and work back to the tail in
> installing the cross-braces. Squareness is obviously important. I wouldn't
> make any metal fittings until the woodwork is finished. Seem to get a
> better fit if you build them to your specific fuselage. I'd leave the
> firewall off until all the fittings and controls were built, gets a little
> tight in there. I made the front seat framework permanent but made the
> plywood seat removeable to service the rudder bar. I routed the elevator
> cables through pulleys where they go under the seat. Helps for a little
> smoother movement. It's a good idea to beef up the instrument panels with
> laminated wood bows glued to the plywood. Adds!
> a lot of strength for a very small weight penalty. Really, really
> resist the urge to add much of anything. The fuselage is quite strong if
> built with quality wood and good tight joints. I've found that out with
> some not so great landings! Try not to add much to the panel, you won't use
> it anyway. The view outside is much better than looking at the panel. If
> you build it like the plans and expect a 1930's airplane you won't regret
> it.
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63306#63306
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
FW: Pietenpol-List: Fuse constructionGREAT!!!!!! If we can find an
honest man, then they can hold the bet money, five bucks is five bucks,
it could be a temptation. Lakeland Apr07, I'll hook the turbocharger
back up, take on the RV guys, get some respect for Piete Aficionados.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
Gordon,
Greg Bacon just might take you up on this bet when he gets Mountain
Piet back in the air.......
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse construction
N-1003B's 4130 fuselage, 0-235Lycosauros engine and Aeronca wings,
flies just fine thanks. Got $5 bucks that says my "Piete" can beat
anyone out there's Piete in time to climb to 3000' agl,
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuse construction |
In a message dated 9/22/2006 1:56:05 PM Central Standard Time,
eng@canadianrogers.com writes:
I think the key word here is "style". Cub style gear, not actual Cub gear.
The 1933/34 improved Pietenpol Air Camper plans show a split axle "Cub style"
landing gear.
The J3 Cub, actually uses a 'Pietenpol Split Axle Landing Gear'. Bernard
Pietenpol designed that gear out of some old gas pipe, long before any J3
Cub's came along.
I have the 'Pietenpol Split Axle Style Gear', and changed out the bunji's
for springs, several years ago. If I were to do it again, I would make the
front cross piece of steel between the landing gear lugs / lift strut lugs, out
of 4130, and maybe a little thicker than the 16 Ga. (.059") steel that it
calls out on Drawing No. 3. As someone else pointed out, the steel parts should
be built AFTER the wood fuselage is complete. I've had that cross piece bend
down away from the belly, several times. A hard landing applies a lot of
negative G's to the lift strut, as well as when the landing gear bottoms out,
pushes that cross piece into a bow away from the belly. That energy has to be
absorbed somewhere, and that cross piece is the place. I've seen this on
several other Pietenpols, too. The problem seems to be isolated to the front one.
I now have three #10 bolts down through the ash cross piece and this steel
cross brace, and just this evening, I see where it has bent down a little bit
between two of these bolts. I must have logged well over 500 landings in my
plane, and I obviously still bounce one in once in a while !!
This evening, I was exploring the slow flight characteristics again (at
about 2000' AGL), power setting on the trusty ol' A65 at about 1500 rpm, and I
got the ASI to indicate 30 mph for an extended time, and she just slowly
mushed forward, losing altitude just at a low rate. I love flying this plane,
and
she never ceases to amaze me !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Smokin' to Bartlesville in the morning !!
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