Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level (Rcaprd@aol.com)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level ()
3. 06:29 AM - down-flippers and Corky (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:39 AM - Steve Beasley (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
5. 06:48 AM - Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale (Barry Davis)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: GN-1 Plans set for sale? (DJ Vegh)
7. 12:05 PM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level (Graham Hansen)
8. 12:42 PM - Old drawings (Robert Gow)
9. 02:18 PM - Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale (Gene & Tammy)
10. 03:44 PM - Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale (jbfjr)
11. 05:09 PM - Re: Old drawings (Isablcorky@aol.com)
12. 05:31 PM - Re: Old drawings (Gene & Tammy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level |
In a message dated 10/9/2006 5:49:20 PM Central Standard Time,
Isablcorky@aol.com writes:
He also told me that in his opinion you could never trim a Piet to fly hands
off longer than maybe 10 to 15 seconds. I believed him.
Yeah, I think ol' Nathan Moss has something there, and I believe him, too.
It's probably due to the light wing load...on a calm day, hands off flight, if
a butterfly farts near you, it will knock the Piet out of trim flight !! :)
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 2
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| Subject: | Flippers slightly down when straight & level |
That's where I heard of it,my mother was one of those!Thanks for the
update,I forgot about that.
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky@aol.com
Sent: October 9, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight &
level
Flappers
Were the young girls of the roaring twenties, until Oct 1929, who bobbed
their hair, shortened their dresses, danced the Charleston, and dated
boys with hip flasks known as jelly beans.
Now I've really dated myself
Nathan Moss
Message 3
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| Subject: | down-flippers and Corky |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Alan wrote-
>The day that you're fired (or you resign) as "one of us" is the day that
>we all go to Hell in a handbasket.
That's correct. Just like a car thief, all you have to do is steal one car
to be a car thief. So all you have to do is build and fly one Piet and
you'll forever be a Piet builder and pilot. I ain't one yet but Corky is,
can't take it back, can't erase the social stigma of being a low 'n' slow
flier ;o)
And Alan's comment is very similar to one of George Carlin's one-liners:
"Where are we going? And what's with this hand basket?"
He also said, and this applies to us, "Ever notice that anyone going slower
than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" which
explains all those RV pilots ;o)
do not archive
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several
notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at
the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s
airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much
more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah
Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my
head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the
directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After
Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing.
I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to
get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from
early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple
of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string
the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on
it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there
around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over
there. Yoder is our Amish community Chuck. It's next to Hutchinson. See
you in the air. Leon S.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
Hate to read this, but life does go on. As an update on the Big Piets, we
have wings on now and are plumbing the engines. Still have a lot to go, but
the end is in sight. Still wearing the Big Piet T-Shirts, thanks for your
help on the logo.
Barry Davis
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: GN-1 Plans set for sale? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" <dj@veghdesign.com>
I can't understand why Grega is not answering. I wonder what has happened.
If he doesn't show up in the next few weeks I can see about making copies.
I want to make good and sure though that he is nowhere to be found before
doing that. I'll try to get in touch with him
DJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Subarubrat" <got22b@subarubrat.com>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Plans set for sale?
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Subarubrat" <got22b@subarubrat.com>
>
> The Grega website has been down for quite a while now and is still down.
> The phone number and email on the EAA directory for the company are both
> dead ends. I can't seem to purchase a plan set from them. Does someone
> have a plan set for sale of the newer CAD type?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66823#66823
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level |
All four Pietenpols I have flown (including my own) have their
"flippers" deflected slightly downward in level flight. I think it may
be a characteristic of the breed---at least with the original short
fuselage version. Has anyone investigated this phenomenon with regard to
the long fuselage Pietenpols?
The Pietenpol airplanes are not alone in this respect; an examination of
WW I airplane (eg. Sopwith Pup) in-flight photos will reveal the same
characteristic. Since the Pietenpol design is essentially at the WW I
level, it isn't surprising that Pietenpols also have sagging flippers in
level flight.
What causes this is likely more complicated than it might seem. My
Pietenpol's nose will pitch down abruptly when I lift the access flap
(the hinged rear portion of the center section) slightly. This suggests
a disruption of the downwash from the wing, thereby reducing the
download on the horizontal tail surfaces. The flippers, being hinged to
the horizontal stabilizer, perhaps are being deflected downward by the
downwash and, as Don Emch suggests, their own unbalanced weight. Could
the upper wing of those old WW I biplanes could be creating a similar
downwash situation? I dunno.
Anyway, it is quite possible that aerodynamic factors are
involved---especially if the C of G is within reasonable limits. An aft
C of G location would certainly cause one to maintain a forward force on
the stick, thus depressing the flippers a few degrees. The C of G of my
Pietenpol is within safe operating limits and it tends to be nose heavy
with the fuel tank (located just behind the firewall) more than half
full. As a result, I keep it trimmed with the throttle, gradually
reducing power as the fuel burns off.
So, if aerodynamic factors are the cause---and in my case, I think they
may be---I still am not sure how to cure the "sagging flipper syndrome".
In any case, I don't think it is a serious matter because a lot of older
designs fly just fine despite the condition. Therefore, I don't have
much incentive to experiment with my airplane---particularly after
nearly 36 enjoyable years flying it.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
Message 8
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I bought my set of drawings when I was 17 or so. I'm 53 n now, so these are
old drawings. When I wrote asking some questions in the late 80's I got
answers from Bernie's son (I think!) about trailing edge profiles and so
forth.
Anyway, long story short, I've decided to find a way to start on the
project. I want the Jenny style gear and a Ford engine.
There have been some articles on getting more HP reliably from the Ford, and
I would like to take advantage of a professional engine builder who is
familiar with these techniques and who can dyno test the engine.
I have very little time, and this has been my limitation over the last
decade, and will be for the foreseeable future. I've toyed with the idea of
buying one but never bit. So I'm looking for "shortcuts" like parting out
bits, brackets and so forth.
Is it fairly safe to take the metal parts from the plans and just build
them? I was thinking of getting CAD drawings done and getting them runt
thru a CNC shop as one approach.
What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with
them. Or buying ribs?
Any other ideas on fast tracking a project?
Bob
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
Piet T-Shirts? Where?
Gene N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
>
> Hate to read this, but life does go on. As an update on the Big Piets, we
> have wings on now and are plumbing the engines. Still have a lot to go,
> but the end is in sight. Still wearing the Big Piet T-Shirts, thanks for
> your help on the logo.
> Barry Davis
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: " jbfjr" <jbfjr@ev1.net>
Gene,
Try this link from a lowly GN-1 builder:
http://www.airplanetshirts.com/homebuilt_page1.html
John F.
Richmond, TX
GN-1 Aircamper
Corvair 164cid
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bellsouth.net>
>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene & Tammy"
<zharvey@bellsouth.net>
>
>Piet T-Shirts? Where?
>Gene N502R
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:47 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale
>
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis"
<bed@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Hate to read this, but life does go on. As an update on the Big
Piets, we
>> have wings on now and are plumbing the engines. Still have a
lot to go,
>> but the end is in sight. Still wearing the Big Piet T-Shirts,
thanks for
>> your help on the logo.
>> Barry Davis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Old drawings |
In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time,
rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes:
What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with
them. Or buying ribs?
Any other ideas on fast tracking a project?
Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done to
help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32 times. There
should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who would like to keep
their hands near the fire but can't build an entire Piet for various reasons. I
sold out because of Isabelle's health and would need all my time to support
her. She has improved and I find myself in need of something to do as I've
never been able to tolerate idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well
as a set of feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure
there are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to
help other Pieters and post your talents on this net.
Nathan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Old drawings |
Nathan, What a great idea! It'll be interesting to see where this goes.
At this point in my life I won't have time to get involved but in a
year or two I would love to find the time to help someone get their
project moving. Not looking to make money, just looking to be involved
with something I love.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings
In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time,
rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes:
What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done
with them. Or buying ribs?
Any other ideas on fast tracking a project?
Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done
to help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32
times. There should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who
would like to keep their hands near the fire but can't build an entire
Piet for various reasons.. I sold out because of Isabelle's health and
would need all my time to support her. She has improved and I find
myself in need of something to do as I've never been able to tolerate
idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well as a set of
feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure there
are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to
help other Pieters and post your talents on this net.
Nathan
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