---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/10/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level (Rcaprd@aol.com) 2. 03:58 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level () 3. 06:29 AM - down-flippers and Corky (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 06:39 AM - Steve Beasley (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 5. 06:48 AM - Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale (Barry Davis) 6. 06:58 AM - Re: GN-1 Plans set for sale? (DJ Vegh) 7. 12:05 PM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level (Graham Hansen) 8. 12:42 PM - Old drawings (Robert Gow) 9. 02:18 PM - Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale (Gene & Tammy) 10. 03:44 PM - Re: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale (jbfjr) 11. 05:09 PM - Re: Old drawings (Isablcorky@aol.com) 12. 05:31 PM - Re: Old drawings (Gene & Tammy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:15 AM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level In a message dated 10/9/2006 5:49:20 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky@aol.com writes: He also told me that in his opinion you could never trim a Piet to fly hands off longer than maybe 10 to 15 seconds. I believed him. Yeah, I think ol' Nathan Moss has something there, and I believe him, too. It's probably due to the light wing load...on a calm day, hands off flight, if a butterfly farts near you, it will knock the Piet out of trim flight !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level From: That's where I heard of it,my mother was one of those!Thanks for the update,I forgot about that. Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky@aol.com Sent: October 9, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level Flappers Were the young girls of the roaring twenties, until Oct 1929, who bobbed their hair, shortened their dresses, danced the Charleston, and dated boys with hip flasks known as jelly beans. Now I've really dated myself Nathan Moss ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:18 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: down-flippers and Corky --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Alan wrote- >The day that you're fired (or you resign) as "one of us" is the day that >we all go to Hell in a handbasket. That's correct. Just like a car thief, all you have to do is steal one car to be a car thief. So all you have to do is build and fly one Piet and you'll forever be a Piet builder and pilot. I ain't one yet but Corky is, can't take it back, can't erase the social stigma of being a low 'n' slow flier ;o) And Alan's comment is very similar to one of George Carlin's one-liners: "Where are we going? And what's with this hand basket?" He also said, and this applies to us, "Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" which explains all those RV pilots ;o) do not archive Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:24 AM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over there. Yoder is our Amish community Chuck. It's next to Hutchinson. See you in the air. Leon S. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:16 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" Hate to read this, but life does go on. As an update on the Big Piets, we have wings on now and are plumbing the engines. Still have a lot to go, but the end is in sight. Still wearing the Big Piet T-Shirts, thanks for your help on the logo. Barry Davis ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:55 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Plans set for sale? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "DJ Vegh" I can't understand why Grega is not answering. I wonder what has happened. If he doesn't show up in the next few weeks I can see about making copies. I want to make good and sure though that he is nowhere to be found before doing that. I'll try to get in touch with him DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Subarubrat" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Plans set for sale? > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Subarubrat" > > The Grega website has been down for quite a while now and is still down. > The phone number and email on the EAA directory for the company are both > dead ends. I can't seem to purchase a plan set from them. Does someone > have a plan set for sale of the newer CAD type? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66823#66823 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:47 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level All four Pietenpols I have flown (including my own) have their "flippers" deflected slightly downward in level flight. I think it may be a characteristic of the breed---at least with the original short fuselage version. Has anyone investigated this phenomenon with regard to the long fuselage Pietenpols? The Pietenpol airplanes are not alone in this respect; an examination of WW I airplane (eg. Sopwith Pup) in-flight photos will reveal the same characteristic. Since the Pietenpol design is essentially at the WW I level, it isn't surprising that Pietenpols also have sagging flippers in level flight. What causes this is likely more complicated than it might seem. My Pietenpol's nose will pitch down abruptly when I lift the access flap (the hinged rear portion of the center section) slightly. This suggests a disruption of the downwash from the wing, thereby reducing the download on the horizontal tail surfaces. The flippers, being hinged to the horizontal stabilizer, perhaps are being deflected downward by the downwash and, as Don Emch suggests, their own unbalanced weight. Could the upper wing of those old WW I biplanes could be creating a similar downwash situation? I dunno. Anyway, it is quite possible that aerodynamic factors are involved---especially if the C of G is within reasonable limits. An aft C of G location would certainly cause one to maintain a forward force on the stick, thus depressing the flippers a few degrees. The C of G of my Pietenpol is within safe operating limits and it tends to be nose heavy with the fuel tank (located just behind the firewall) more than half full. As a result, I keep it trimmed with the throttle, gradually reducing power as the fuel burns off. So, if aerodynamic factors are the cause---and in my case, I think they may be---I still am not sure how to cure the "sagging flipper syndrome". In any case, I don't think it is a serious matter because a lot of older designs fly just fine despite the condition. Therefore, I don't have much incentive to experiment with my airplane---particularly after nearly 36 enjoyable years flying it. Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:33 PM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings I bought my set of drawings when I was 17 or so. I'm 53 n now, so these are old drawings. When I wrote asking some questions in the late 80's I got answers from Bernie's son (I think!) about trailing edge profiles and so forth. Anyway, long story short, I've decided to find a way to start on the project. I want the Jenny style gear and a Ford engine. There have been some articles on getting more HP reliably from the Ford, and I would like to take advantage of a professional engine builder who is familiar with these techniques and who can dyno test the engine. I have very little time, and this has been my limitation over the last decade, and will be for the foreseeable future. I've toyed with the idea of buying one but never bit. So I'm looking for "shortcuts" like parting out bits, brackets and so forth. Is it fairly safe to take the metal parts from the plans and just build them? I was thinking of getting CAD drawings done and getting them runt thru a CNC shop as one approach. What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with them. Or buying ribs? Any other ideas on fast tracking a project? Bob ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:26 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene & Tammy" Piet T-Shirts? Where? Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Davis" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" > > Hate to read this, but life does go on. As an update on the Big Piets, we > have wings on now and are plumbing the engines. Still have a lot to go, > but the end is in sight. Still wearing the Big Piet T-Shirts, thanks for > your help on the logo. > Barry Davis > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:59 PM PST US From: " jbfjr" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: " jbfjr" Gene, Try this link from a lowly GN-1 builder: http://www.airplanetshirts.com/homebuilt_page1.html John F. Richmond, TX GN-1 Aircamper Corvair 164cid ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Gene & Tammy" >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gene & Tammy" > >Piet T-Shirts? Where? >Gene N502R >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Barry Davis" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:47 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my 95% GN-1 project is for sale > > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" >> >> Hate to read this, but life does go on. As an update on the Big Piets, we >> have wings on now and are plumbing the engines. Still have a lot to go, >> but the end is in sight. Still wearing the Big Piet T-Shirts, thanks for >> your help on the logo. >> Barry Davis >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:50 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time, rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes: What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with them. Or buying ribs? Any other ideas on fast tracking a project? Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done to help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32 times. There should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who would like to keep their hands near the fire but can't build an entire Piet for various reasons. I sold out because of Isabelle's health and would need all my time to support her. She has improved and I find myself in need of something to do as I've never been able to tolerate idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well as a set of feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure there are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to help other Pieters and post your talents on this net. Nathan ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:04 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings Nathan, What a great idea! It'll be interesting to see where this goes. At this point in my life I won't have time to get involved but in a year or two I would love to find the time to help someone get their project moving. Not looking to make money, just looking to be involved with something I love. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time, rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes: What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with them. Or buying ribs? Any other ideas on fast tracking a project? Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done to help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32 times. There should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who would like to keep their hands near the fire but can't build an entire Piet for various reasons.. I sold out because of Isabelle's health and would need all my time to support her. She has improved and I find myself in need of something to do as I've never been able to tolerate idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well as a set of feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure there are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to help other Pieters and post your talents on this net. Nathan