---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/11/06: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level () 2. 05:31 AM - Re: Old drawings (Scott Schreiber) 3. 05:47 AM - fast tracking a project (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 05:49 AM - wing Spars (amsafetyc@aol.com) 5. 05:52 AM - Back on nthe road again (amsafetyc@aol.com) 6. 06:11 AM - Re: Old drawings (Robert Gow) 7. 06:17 AM - Re: Old drawings (Robert Gow) 8. 06:19 AM - Re: fast tracking a project (Robert Gow) 9. 06:52 AM - Re: fast tracking a project () 10. 07:20 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level (Jack T. Textor) 11. 07:23 AM - Re: wing Spars (Jack T. Textor) 12. 07:34 AM - Re: Flippers slightly down when straight & level () 13. 10:40 AM - Grega status (DJ Vegh) 14. 11:14 AM - Re: wing Spars (Ed G.) 15. 11:35 AM - Old drawings (Oscar Zuniga) 16. 12:02 PM - Re: Old drawings (Robert Gow) 17. 02:36 PM - Re: wing Spars (Bill Church) 18. 02:57 PM - Re: fast tracking a project (Robert Gow) 19. 05:09 PM - Model A Engine (Chet's Mail) 20. 05:10 PM - Re: wing Spars (Peter W Johnson) 21. 06:21 PM - Re: Model A Engine (PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com) 22. 08:55 PM - Chet Peek's book "The Pietenpol Story" (Steve Ruse) 23. 10:04 PM - Piets near to Tulsa, Ok (javier cruz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level From: Mine has that same forward stick pull on it as well and although I havn't been able to see it in flight I wouldn't be surprised if the elevators are slightly down in order to compensate.I believe it may because of the downward angle of the engine.Just a theory.Other pilots have suggested 15 degree angle trim tabs 7 inch's long and with a one inch grab and 2 inch surface on both elevators.Others have suggested a triangular piece of wood velcroved to the trailing edge of the elevator or duck taped there for temporary look see.Others still suggested raising the trailing edge of the horizontal stab by =BC inch which would involve also raising the rudder as well.I'm going to think on this over the winter and try one of these in the spring and see what happens.But I can see it being very fatiguing on long flights to put up with that pull on the stick all the time.Another method is to put a bungee cord around that contol stick to hold it back.I have the same setup in my N3 PUP. ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:50 AM PST US From: "Scott Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings I would certainly go for a rib jig from someone who has finished their plane. -Scott Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings Nathan, What a great idea! It'll be interesting to see where this goes. At this point in my life I won't have time to get involved but in a year or two I would love to find the time to help someone get their project moving. Not looking to make money, just looking to be involved with something I love. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time, rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes: What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with them. Or buying ribs? Any other ideas on fast tracking a project? Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done to help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32 times. There should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who would like to keep their hands near the fire but can't build an entire Piet for various reasons.. I sold out because of Isabelle's health and would need all my time to support her. She has improved and I find myself in need of something to do as I've never been able to tolerate idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well as a set of feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure there are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to help other Pieters and post your talents on this net. Nathan href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:03 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Hi, The best way to "fast track" a project in my opnion is to find a project for sale and stand on someone else's shoulders. Just gotta make sure they were a good builder. You'll usually save a bunch of money as well. Another huge time saver, if you've got the funds, is to just pay somebody to do your engine for you. Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars From: amsafetyc@aol.com Has anyone used and engineered truss design for the wing spars, I was curious about weight using a lower weight system that had equal or greater strength rigidity and flex characteristic's. If anyone has used such a system or researched it I would be interested in the findings along with the build materials, dimensions and methodology. Thanks John ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Back on nthe road again From: amsafetyc@aol.com Ill be in the Rockford Illinois area Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, anyone interested in showing and discussing their project. Please Advise John ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:04 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings I'm interested. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Isablcorky@aol.com Sent: October 10, 2006 8:09 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time, rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes: What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with them. Or buying ribs? Any other ideas on fast tracking a project? Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done to help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32 times. There should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who would like to keep their hands near the fire but can't build an entire Piet for various reasons. I sold out because of Isabelle's health and would need all my time to support her. She has improved and I find myself in need of something to do as I've never been able to tolerate idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well as a set of feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure there are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to help other Pieters and post your talents on this net. Nathan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:14 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings OK - I need a way to get going. With a new family (came with the new significant other), house under renovation and a business which keeps me running, this could be plan. Still lots for me to do. My stepdaughter is now interested in learning to fly in the company PA28. But someday I want to show her what real flying is. Bob. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: October 10, 2006 8:30 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings Nathan, What a great idea! It'll be interesting to see where this goes. At this point in my life I won't have time to get involved but in a year or two I would love to find the time to help someone get their project moving. Not looking to make money, just looking to be involved with something I love. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings In a message dated 10/10/2006 2:46:03 PM Central Standard Time, rgow@avionicsdesign.ca writes: What about buying jigs (rib for example) from builders who are done with them. Or buying ribs? Any other ideas on fast tracking a project? Your above questions stimulated my ole brain as to what could be done to help you as your time is limited to construct similiar parts 32 times. There should be some old or even semi old Pieters out there who would like to keep their hands near the fire but can't build an entire Piet for various reasons.. I sold out because of Isabelle's health and would need all my time to support her. She has improved and I find myself in need of something to do as I've never been able to tolerate idleness. I could build a set of ribs easily as well as a set of feathers. Even the four spars dressed ready to assemble. I'm sure there are others whose specialties could join in. Let's all think of ways to help other Pieters and post your talents on this net. Nathan href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:40 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Yes, and I have looked at some projects. But it's a circle. If you haven't built one, you may not spot the discrepancies. For sure I'd get the engine done by someone who has been there and done that. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: October 11, 2006 8:48 AM To: pietenpolgroup Subject: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Hi, The best way to "fast track" a project in my opnion is to find a project for sale and stand on someone else's shoulders. Just gotta make sure they were a good builder. You'll usually save a bunch of money as well. Another huge time saver, if you've got the funds, is to just pay somebody to do your engine for you. Douwe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project From: I'm a flyer not a builder.I just don't have the patience or the wearwithal to do such a thing.I got to tell ya I was real lucky to get C-IOVC from the people I got it from.They were excellent builders.You can usually tell just by looking at something if it was done right and besides I got another builders opinion.I finished a plane that was about 85 to 90 % finished and everything has worked out well.I even had help and lots of it finishing her.I learned a lot just from what we had to finish.I had real good crafts men working for me.There are real good people out there willing to give of their time and effort and they don't want a cent for it.They just want to help.They have taught me that very important lesson as well.I help out now in anyway I can providing I'm not doing something that may cause a fatality in the future.Look around and you'll find the same thing and it's usually in your backyard. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gow Sent: October 11, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Yes, and I have looked at some projects. But it's a circle. If you haven't built one, you may not spot the discrepancies. For sure I'd get the engine done by someone who has been there and done that. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: October 11, 2006 8:48 AM To: pietenpolgroup Subject: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Hi, The best way to "fast track" a project in my opnion is to find a project for sale and stand on someone else's shoulders. Just gotta make sure they were a good builder. You'll usually save a bunch of money as well. Another huge time saver, if you've got the funds, is to just pay somebody to do your engine for you. Douwe href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level From: "Jack T. Textor" Has anyone tried to build an airfoil in the stab? In my model days I routinely did this with excellent results. Don't forget the International Piet fly-in this weekend in Blakesburg. Cold here, naturally. Jack Textor www.textors.com Mine has that same forward stick pull on it as well and although I havn't been able to see it in flight I wouldn't be surprised if the elevators are slightly down in order to compensate.I believe it may because of the downward angle of the engine.Just a theory.Other pilots have suggested 15 degree angle trim tabs 7 inch's long and with a one inch grab and 2 inch surface on both elevators.Others have suggested a triangular piece of wood velcroved to the trailing edge of the elevator or duck taped there for temporary look see.Others still suggested raising the trailing edge of the horizontal stab by =BC inch which would involve also raising the rudder as well.I'm going to think on this over the winter and try one of these in the spring and see what happens.But I can see it being very fatiguing on long flights to put up with that pull on the stick all the time.Another method is to put a bungee cord around that contol stick to hold it back.I have the same setup in my N3 PUP. ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars From: "Jack T. Textor" John, I'm doing it. It takes more time but I believe it should be stronger. No tests yet! Jack Textor Has anyone used and engineered truss design for the wing spars, I was curious about weight using a lower weight system that had equal or greater strength rigidity and flex characteristic's. If anyone has used such a system or researched it I would be interested in the findings along with the build materials, dimensions and methodology. Thanks John ________________________________ Check out the new AOL . Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level From: You mean like a flying tail;Now that is interesting.The tail would create it's own lift.I may be wrong but don't they do this very thing with the Zainair CH701(not sure of spelling there)but you catch my drift. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T. Textor Sent: October 11, 2006 10:20 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flippers slightly down when straight & level Has anyone tried to build an airfoil in the stab? In my model days I routinely did this with excellent results. Don't forget the International Piet fly-in this weekend in Blakesburg. Cold here, naturally. Jack Textor www.textors.com Mine has that same forward stick pull on it as well and although I havn't been able to see it in flight I wouldn't be surprised if the elevators are slightly down in order to compensate.I believe it may because of the downward angle of the engine.Just a theory.Other pilots have suggested 15 degree angle trim tabs 7 inch's long and with a one inch grab and 2 inch surface on both elevators.Others have suggested a triangular piece of wood velcroved to the trailing edge of the elevator or duck taped there for temporary look see.Others still suggested raising the trailing edge of the horizontal stab by =BC inch which would involve also raising the rudder as well.I'm going to think on this over the winter and try one of these in the spring and see what happens.But I can see it being very fatiguing on long flights to put up with that pull on the stick all the time.Another method is to put a bungee cord around that contol stick to hold it back.I have the same setup in my N3 PUP. ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:40 AM PST US From: "DJ Vegh" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grega status I heard back from Bob Grega today (the late John Grega's son) here was his reply -------------- Hi DJ, Due to illness I haven't sold any plans since early spring. The LORD willing GN-1 plans will again be available for sale in the near future. Nice hearing from you and may God bless you and your family DJ. Bob ----------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:52 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hi John...The Britt's have a built up spar for the Piet that is pretty much their standard spar set up. It is approved by their federal organization ( I forget the designation offhand, PFA or something like that ). The fellow who engineered it and sells plans for it will not sell them in the U.S. because of litigation worries. It is a C section spar with a 1/8" plywood web and spruce or fir caps. Last time I was at Brodhead in 2005 there was a fellow there with a set he had built. The rear spars have slightly smaller caps than the front ones. Ed G. >From: amsafetyc@aol.com >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:51:01 -0400 > > Has anyone used and engineered truss design for the wing spars, I was >curious about weight using a lower weight system that had equal or greater >strength rigidity and flex characteristic's. If anyone has used such a >system or researched it I would be interested in the findings along with >the build materials, dimensions and methodology. > >Thanks > >John >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, >free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:26 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Bob wrote- >Is it fairly safe to take the metal parts from the plans and just build >them? I'm sure this has already been mentioned many times, but if you fabricate the fittings to the plans you'll find many places where it will be difficult (or impossible) to insert bolts, install nuts, or put cotter pins in castellated nuts. There is no wiggle room and the fitting holes end up too close to the finished fabric or wood surfaces and it is difficult to assemble things. Most builders make the fittings later so that the mounting ears, tangs, tabs, and other connecting points can be measured for where things are going to go, or at least make the tabs a bit longer where it's obvious that things are going to be tight. You can learn a lot about this by looking at the fittings on a couple of Piets at a fly-in or among the many photos on the web. DJ Vegh, among others, used an online "draw it in CAD and we'll fabricate it for you" service to pre-make all of his fittings and he was very pleased with the outcome, but then again he may have added to the length of some of his fittings. Oh, and he's also building a GN-1 and not a genuine Pietenpol Aircamper ;o) And one last caution... do not even think of dealing with Sirius Aviation or Replicraft, both of which have offered prefabricated fittings for Pietenpols in the past. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:05 PM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Robert Gow" Thanks. The bottom line I suppose is that these aircraft are not very repeatable one to the other. Shouldn't be a surprise when no two Boeings are the same. But I could make templates fro cardboard and trial fit them when the time comes, then get them blasted out. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: October 11, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Old drawings --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" Bob wrote- >Is it fairly safe to take the metal parts from the plans and just build >them? I'm sure this has already been mentioned many times, but if you fabricate the fittings to the plans you'll find many places where it will be difficult (or impossible) to insert bolts, install nuts, or put cotter pins in castellated nuts. There is no wiggle room and the fitting holes end up too close to the finished fabric or wood surfaces and it is difficult to assemble things. Most builders make the fittings later so that the mounting ears, tangs, tabs, and other connecting points can be measured for where things are going to go, or at least make the tabs a bit longer where it's obvious that things are going to be tight. You can learn a lot about this by looking at the fittings on a couple of Piets at a fly-in or among the many photos on the web. DJ Vegh, among others, used an online "draw it in CAD and we'll fabricate it for you" service to pre-make all of his fittings and he was very pleased with the outcome, but then again he may have added to the length of some of his fittings. Oh, and he's also building a GN-1 and not a genuine Pietenpol Aircamper ;o) And one last caution... do not even think of dealing with Sirius Aviation or Replicraft, both of which have offered prefabricated fittings for Pietenpols in the past. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars From: "Bill Church" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" John (and anyone else that's interested in the British built-up spar), For a detailed look at the British built-up spar, with nice clear photos and details of how to construct a set for yourself, take a look at Peter Johnson's (from Australia) really well done build website. If you read the details and refer to his materials list, you can determine the exact dimensions for this method. It is reportedly lighter and stronger and cheaper than a solid spruce spar. http://www.cpc-world.com/ Go to Airframe Construction / Wings / Wing Spars for the details on the spar construction and Services and Suppliers / materials List / Wood Cutting List for the wood sizes By the way, Peter's Pietenpol looks like it will be ready to fly in the not-too-distant future. Way to go Peter. Bill C. -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hi John...The Britt's have a built up spar for the Piet that is pretty much their standard spar set up. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:35 PM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Yes. I'm seriously looking at every solution right now. Time is passing too quickly. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of harvey.rule@bell.ca Sent: October 11, 2006 9:52 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project I'm a flyer not a builder.I just don't have the patience or the wearwithal to do such a thing.I got to tell ya I was real lucky to get C-IOVC from the people I got it from.They were excellent builders.You can usually tell just by looking at something if it was done right and besides I got another builders opinion.I finished a plane that was about 85 to 90 % finished and everything has worked out well.I even had help and lots of it finishing her.I learned a lot just from what we had to finish.I had real good crafts men working for me.There are real good people out there willing to give of their time and effort and they don't want a cent for it.They just want to help.They have taught me that very important lesson as well.I help out now in anyway I can providing I'm not doing something that may cause a fatality in the future.Look around and you'll find the same thing and it's usually in your backyard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gow Sent: October 11, 2006 9:19 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Yes, and I have looked at some projects. But it's a circle. If you haven't built one, you may not spot the discrepancies. For sure I'd get the engine done by someone who has been there and done that. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: October 11, 2006 8:48 AM To: pietenpolgroup Subject: Pietenpol-List: fast tracking a project Hi, The best way to "fast track" a project in my opnion is to find a project for sale and stand on someone else's shoulders. Just gotta make sure they were a good builder. You'll usually save a bunch of money as well. Another huge time saver, if you've got the funds, is to just pay somebody to do your engine for you. Douwe href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:58 PM PST US From: "Chet's Mail" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A Engine Can any one tell me the timing for the model A engine, and where they found the information? I have a Slick mag and can only find information as to a pin being placed in the engine to set the time. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time, Chet ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:28 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Peter W Johnson" Thanks Bill, Just waiting for the wind to die down so I can finish painting the last wing. Should be ready for some taxi tests at the end of the month. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, 12 October 2006 7:35 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" John (and anyone else that's interested in the British built-up spar), For a detailed look at the British built-up spar, with nice clear photos and details of how to construct a set for yourself, take a look at Peter Johnson's (from Australia) really well done build website. If you read the details and refer to his materials list, you can determine the exact dimensions for this method. It is reportedly lighter and stronger and cheaper than a solid spruce spar. http://www.cpc-world.com/ Go to Airframe Construction / Wings / Wing Spars for the details on the spar construction and Services and Suppliers / materials List / Wood Cutting List for the wood sizes By the way, Peter's Pietenpol looks like it will be ready to fly in the not-too-distant future. Way to go Peter. Bill C. -----Original Message----- --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." Hi John...The Britt's have a built up spar for the Piet that is pretty much their standard spar set up. -- -- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:49 PM PST US From: PIETLARS29@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A Engine Hi, Model A timing is 28 degrees before TDC. Source is Will Graff who has been flying his A powered Piet for many years. Thats what I time my A to and it works. Lou Larsen ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:23 PM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chet Peek's book "The Pietenpol Story" --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Steve Ruse" Chet has received his book from the publisher, and is ready to start selling copies. Until the end of the year, he will be distributing the book himself, so the only way to get one is to e-mail him directly to order it. I will get my copy Thursday afternoon and can't wait. I'll be sure to post some thoughts on the book soon, I bet I'll have it read cover to cover in two to three days. His e-mail address is RBaron18@aol.com. I asked him today and he said he will be taking orders for the book by e-mail, so don't hesitate to send him an e-mail if you are interested. There are even a couple of pictures of my plane in the book, and a little bit of information on my plane and how I obtained it, so I'm particularly excited about the book. If you don't know who Chet Peek is, he is an "Aviation Historian", who knows plenty about aviation. He was in B-17s in WWII, and has plenty of hands-on restoration and flying experience. He restored and flew a Curtis Jenny which was actually for sale on Barnstormers recently. I'm sure he has forgotten more about airplanes than I will ever learn. His most well known book is "The Taylorcraft Story". He is currently building a Model A Pietenpol, he has the fuselage built and is nearly ready to run the engine. I've seen it in his garage, and the work he does is great. I can't wait to see the finished product, I'm sure it will be one of the nicest around. I hope to fly chase on its first flight. Steve Ruse Norman, OK -- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:49 PM PST US From: javier cruz Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets near to Tulsa, Ok --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: javier cruz Hi , i have two days off at Tulsa, Ok, any one near to Tulsa have any Piet or Project and any spare time for show me it... Thanks in advance Javier Cruz