---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/13/06: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 AM - Re: Diagonal strut () 2. 10:15 AM - Re: wing Spars (Rick Holland) 3. 10:21 AM - Bellcrank question (Rick Holland) 4. 10:54 AM - Re: Diagonal strut (Rick Holland) 5. 11:31 AM - Re: Steve Beasley (Rick Holland) 6. 11:46 AM - The streamline strut tube end smash (Rick Holland) 7. 11:50 AM - Re: Diagonal strut (Rick Holland) 8. 11:54 AM - Re: Steve Beasley (Phillips, Jack) 9. 12:12 PM - Re: Steve Beasley (Gene Rambo) 10. 12:21 PM - Re: Steve Beasley (Rick Holland) 11. 12:45 PM - Re: Steve Beasley (Phillips, Jack) 12. 02:24 PM - Pietenpols (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 13. 02:28 PM - Re: Diagonal strut () 14. 02:50 PM - Re: Steve Beasley (Rick Holland) 15. 03:07 PM - Re: Pietenpols (Rick Holland) 16. 03:21 PM - Re: The streamline strut tube end smash (Rcaprd@aol.com) 17. 03:22 PM - Re: Diagonal strut (Rcaprd@aol.com) 18. 03:28 PM - Re: Steve Beasley (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 03:33 PM - Re: Pietenpols (Rcaprd@aol.com) 20. 03:40 PM - Re: Diagonal strut (Rcaprd@aol.com) 21. 05:15 PM - Re: Diagonal strut (Gene Beenenga) 22. 05:30 PM - Hey Chuck (shad bell) 23. 09:59 PM - Re: Hey Chuck (Rcaprd@aol.com) 24. 10:06 PM - Re: Diagonal strut (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut From: If you are using J3 struts then you can't call it a Pietenpol anymore(it's a J3);-) ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner Mason Sent: October 12, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut Rick, I am using J3 struts and I am going to use the leftover for the front cabane struts. They will fit between the fittings and bolted in. At the top end I will weld in adjustable strut forks in case I have to tilt the wing back for weight and balance. I think I read somewhere that you are in Castle Rock Co. If so, I would like to call you when I visit my son in Colorado Springs. I am building my Piet in Lagrange Ga. , and I live in Atlanta, Ga. I am about 60 percent done after a year and a half. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut The diagonals on NX18235 are 3/4 X .035 with an adjustable, threaded fitting at the top. Bottom is attached similar to the way Chuck G. has described. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut Hey guys What size tubing did you guys use for the diagonal struts running from the top engine mounts to the top of the front cabanes? Did you smash and weld the ends? Thanks -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Date: 10/11/2006 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:34 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars The Mini Max spar is an identical design. This design has been also used in most all the Ragwing aircraft designs. Don't know who came out with it first but it is a proven design that has been used in lots of homebuilts. And it sure would be cheaper than buying 14 foot slabs of spruce. Didn't know that our 'sue anybody with money' justice system could reach all the way across to England. Rick On 10/11/06, Ed G. wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ed G." > > > Hi John...The Britt's have a built up spar for the Piet that is pretty > much > their standard spar set up. It is approved by their federal organization ( > I > forget the designation offhand, PFA or something like that ). The fellow > who > engineered it and sells plans for it will not sell them in the U.S. > because > of litigation worries. It is a C section spar with a 1/8" plywood web and > spruce or fir caps. Last time I was at Brodhead in 2005 there was a fellow > there with a set he had built. The rear spars have slightly smaller caps > than the front ones. Ed G. > > > >From: amsafetyc@aol.com > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing Spars > >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:51:01 -0400 > > > > Has anyone used and engineered truss design for the wing spars, I was > >curious about weight using a lower weight system that had equal or > greater > >strength rigidity and flex characteristic's. If anyone has used such a > >system or researched it I would be interested in the findings along with > >the build materials, dimensions and methodology. > > > >Thanks > > > >John > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and > security > >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the > web, > >free AOL Mail and more. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:44 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bellcrank question Concerning the elevator cables running from the rear joystick to the bellcrank, I have seen pictures of bellcranks with no turnbuckles (per the plans), one turnbuckle on the botton or top of the bellcrank, and turnbuckles on the top and bottom. Any opinions on the best way? The only reason I can see for two is if you will want to modify the joystick position. RIck -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:35 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut Chuck Are you making another Piet? I thought yours was done. Anyhow, how would welding two straps to either side of the tube and bolting that through the top cabane bolt be stronger than smashing the top end of the tube, drilling a hole in it and bolting that through the outside of the upper cabane bolt? If it's to make it look better I think the best looking solution is to add a metal tab to the top front of the cabane and and attach the tube to that as Jack P. and others has done. But I am too lazy to do that and will probably just smash, round, and edge weld the ends. Rick On 10/12/06, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/12/2006 9:49:58 AM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > Hey guys > > What size tubing did you guys use for the diagonal struts running from the > top engine mounts to the top of the front cabanes? Did you smash and weld > the ends? > > Hey Rick, > I've been working on those struts for a while now, because I'm at a > stumbling block on how to do the upper end. I'm using 5/8" X .065" wall > for the tubing. I didn't smash the tube at either end. I terminated the > lower end with a piece of 7/16" X .065 wall (perpendicular to strut) that > is reamed for the 5/16" bolt, then did a wrap around and up the tube kind of > finger patch, made from .063" flat 4130 steel. Just today I made a > cardboard templet for the upper end, that terminates at the upper bolt for > the cabane struts. I've got to do that end a little different. I am good > with the outboard .063" strap, but I don't like how I'll have to do the > inboard strap, because of the 'X' cables in front of the front windshield. > I will have to make a pretty big notch in that strap, because of the little > bracket that the fwd 'X' cables attach to....Any ideas on how I can make > that inboard strap at the upper end ?? > I already made and installed a bushing on the floor for the front seat > belt extension, so I can take my Fat buddies up for a ride... > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:27 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley That's funny Leon, I also finished my second wing right after Broadhead/Osh. Maybe it was that little tailgate party at Broadhead that got up all pumped up. And I am right where you are with the flying strut thing. I have been thinking about this since I started the project: "Just go into any hanger anywhere and you will find old Cub struts in great shape" - NOT! "Just get aluminum struts, only $50 each" - but you better have an engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues with age and steel does not. "Just use round 4130 tubing" - but I will lose at least one mph cruise speed and my Piet will look like an ultralight, and you guys will laugh at me if I ever make it to Broadhead. "Alright, just bite the bullet and buy NEW 4130 streamline" - but that will cost a fortune! Round and round I go. So I called Dillsberg the other day and 2.3 by 1.0streamline will cost me $27/ft. (for 8 foot lengths) and AS came in at $21.76 believe it or not, Wicks is about the same. By the way, I stopped at the Zenith booth at Oshkosh and looked at the struts on the 701 which is nearly identical gross weight. Looking at the plans I noticed the 4 round 4130 struts on it are 1 1/4" .035! Making .049 4130 streamline struts about two to four times that needed for utility class. Rick On 10/10/06, Leon Stefan wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several > notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at > the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s > airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much > more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah > Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my > head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the > directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After > Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. > I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to > get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from > early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple > of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string > the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on > it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there > around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over > there. Yoder is our Amish community Chuck. It's next to Hutchinson. See > you in the air. Leon S. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:20 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Pietenpol-List: The streamline strut tube end smash Question about streamline steel flying strut attachments. I noticed some people have smashed (flattened) the ends of their struts, something the plans do not show. If you do not smash the ends should washers be added inside the struts to keep it from sliding up and down? Rick -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:30 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut Chuck How about this solution to your upper diagonal strut attach problem, grind .065" off of the inside end of the horizontal tube that goes through the top of your cabane strut. Then your top diagonal strut tab can go inside the top cabane fitting instead of going against the outside of it where the cable attachment gets in the way? Rick On 10/12/06, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/12/2006 9:49:58 AM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > Hey guys > > What size tubing did you guys use for the diagonal struts running from the > top engine mounts to the top of the front cabanes? Did you smash and weld > the ends? > > Hey Rick, > I've been working on those struts for a while now, because I'm at a > stumbling block on how to do the upper end. I'm using 5/8" X .065" wall > for the tubing. I didn't smash the tube at either end. I terminated the > lower end with a piece of 7/16" X .065 wall (perpendicular to strut) that > is reamed for the 5/16" bolt, then did a wrap around and up the tube kind of > finger patch, made from .063" flat 4130 steel. Just today I made a > cardboard templet for the upper end, that terminates at the upper bolt for > the cabane struts. I've got to do that end a little different. I am good > with the outboard .063" strap, but I don't like how I'll have to do the > inboard strap, because of the 'X' cables in front of the front windshield. > I will have to make a pretty big notch in that strap, because of the little > bracket that the fwd 'X' cables attach to....Any ideas on how I can make > that inboard strap at the upper end ?? > I already made and installed a bushing on the floor for the front seat > belt extension, so I can take my Fat buddies up for a ride... > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley From: "Phillips, Jack" If anyone is interested, I have 4 old J-3 rear lift struts taking up space and leaking oil on the floor in my basement. I used front struts off two J-3's for my Piet. Rears are a little smaller but are much less trouble than the front struts (the front struts had the fairleads for the aileron cables which had to be removed and ground down). $50 plus shipping and they are yours. Shipping will have to be by truck if they are full length, or I can cut them down to 8' to be shipped by UPS. Be sure 8' will be enough for your installation before you tell me to cut them. I've been planning to put them on ebay, but want to offer them to the Piet family first. Jack Phillips NX899JP Looking forward to tomorrow - beautiful October weather and two fly-ins to go to in my Pietenpol -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley That's funny Leon, I also finished my second wing right after Broadhead/Osh. Maybe it was that little tailgate party at Broadhead that got up all pumped up. And I am right where you are with the flying strut thing. I have been thinking about this since I started the project: "Just go into any hanger anywhere and you will find old Cub struts in great shape" - NOT! "Just get aluminum struts, only $50 each" - but you better have an engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues with age and steel does not. "Just use round 4130 tubing" - but I will lose at least one mph cruise speed and my Piet will look like an ultralight, and you guys will laugh at me if I ever make it to Broadhead. "Alright, just bite the bullet and buy NEW 4130 streamline" - but that will cost a fortune! Round and round I go. So I called Dillsberg the other day and 2.3 by 1.0 streamline will cost me $27/ft. (for 8 foot lengths) and AS came in at $21.76 believe it or not, Wicks is about the same. By the way, I stopped at the Zenith booth at Oshkosh and looked at the struts on the 701 which is nearly identical gross weight. Looking at the plans I noticed the 4 round 4130 struts on it are 1 1/4" .035! Making .049 4130 streamline struts about two to four times that needed for utility class. Rick On 10/10/06, Leon Stefan wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:48 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley Get round tubing and streamline it with balsa and wrap it with fabric tape. Then it will be cheap and look more authentic. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley That's funny Leon, I also finished my second wing right after Broadhead/Osh. Maybe it was that little tailgate party at Broadhead that got up all pumped up. And I am right where you are with the flying strut thing. I have been thinking about this since I started the project: "Just go into any hanger anywhere and you will find old Cub struts in great shape" - NOT! "Just get aluminum struts, only $50 each" - but you better have an engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues with age and steel does not. "Just use round 4130 tubing" - but I will lose at least one mph cruise speed and my Piet will look like an ultralight, and you guys will laugh at me if I ever make it to Broadhead. "Alright, just bite the bullet and buy NEW 4130 streamline" - but that will cost a fortune! Round and round I go. So I called Dillsberg the other day and 2.3 by 1.0 streamline will cost me $27/ft. (for 8 foot lengths) and AS came in at $21.76 believe it or not, Wicks is about the same. By the way, I stopped at the Zenith booth at Oshkosh and looked at the struts on the 701 which is nearly identical gross weight. Looking at the plans I noticed the 4 round 4130 struts on it are 1 1/4" .035! Making 049 4130 streamline struts about two to four times that needed for utility class. Rick On 10/10/06, Leon Stefan > wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:21 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley Jack Jack, I will take them. And yes they can be cut down to 8 foot lengths for UPS shipment. Will send you separte email with shipping info. And please let me send you a case of good Guinness or something just for going to all the trouble. Rick do not archive On 10/13/06, Phillips, Jack < Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote: > > If anyone is interested, I have 4 old J-3 *rear* lift struts taking up > space and leaking oil on the floor in my basement. I used front struts o ff > two J-3's for my Piet. Rears are a little smaller but are much less trou ble > than the front struts (the front struts had the fairleads for the aileron > cables which had to be removed and ground down). $50 plus shipping and t hey > are yours. Shipping will have to be by truck if they are full length, or I > can cut them down to 8' to be shipped by UPS. Be sure 8' will be enough for > your installation before you tell me to cut them. > > > I've been planning to put them on ebay, but want to offer them to the Pie t > family first. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > > Looking forward to tomorrow ' beautiful October weather and two fly-ins to > go to in my Pietenpol > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] * On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Friday, October 13, 2006 2:31 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley > > > That's funny Leon, I also finished my second wing right after > Broadhead/Osh. Maybe it was that little tailgate party at Broadhead that got > up all pumped up. And I am right where you are with the flying strut thin g. > I have been thinking about this since I started the project: > > "Just go into any hanger anywhere and you will find old Cub struts in > great shape" - NOT! > > "Just get aluminum struts, only $50 each" - but you better have an > engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you > use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in > soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues wi th > age and steel does not. > > "Just use round 4130 tubing" - but I will lose at least one mph cruise > speed and my Piet will look like an ultralight, and you guys will laugh a t > me if I ever make it to Broadhead. > > "Alright, just bite the bullet and buy NEW 4130 streamline" - but that > will cost a fortune! > > Round and round I go. So I called Dillsberg the other day and 2.3 by 1.0s treamline will cost me $27/ft. (for 8 foot lengths) and AS came in at > $21.76 believe it or not, Wicks is about the same. > > By the way, I stopped at the Zenith booth at Oshkosh and looked at the > struts on the 701 which is nearly identical gross weight. Looking at the > plans I noticed the 4 round 4130 struts on it are 1 1/4" .035! Making .04 9 > 4130 streamline struts about two to four times that needed for utility > class. > > Rick > > > On 10/10/06, *Leon Stefan* < lshutks@webtv.net> wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several > notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at > the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s > airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much > more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah > Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my > head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the > directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After > Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. > I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to > get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from > early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple > of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string > the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on > it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there > around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile ged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. An y other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > > * > =========== > w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== =========== =========== > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:54 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley From: "Phillips, Jack" OK Rick - they're yours. I'll try to get them cut and prepared for shipping this weekend, and get them shipped out to you on Monday. Guinness, huh? I prefer Newcastle, or some of that "Aviator Red" that Rob Busch brought to Brodhead last year. I'll get my fill of Guinness from Chuck Gantzer anyway - he's bet me a Guinness that his Wittman Tailwind will be faster than my RV-4 with the same engine. This assumes he gets the Tailwind flying before I sell the RV-4. I'll cut off the bottom ends of the struts (that's where the rust will be, that caused the AD that made all these J-3 struts available), and will include the clevis forks with the struts (if they are still in place - I think they are. Those forks new from AS&S atre $87.50 each). If you want me to send the cutoff ends I will, but they'll have to be bagged in a plastic bag - they're full of grease and oil in a vain attempt to keep them from rusting. Are you SURE that 8' will be enough? It was for mine, but everybody's is different. I'll go ahead and ship the struts as soon as I get them prepared. I'll assume you'll be good for the money, and that way I can let you know what the shipping cost is. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley Jack Jack, I will take them. And yes they can be cut down to 8 foot lengths for UPS shipment. Will send you separte email with shipping info. And please let me send you a case of good Guinness or something just for going to all the trouble. Rick do not archive On 10/13/06, Phillips, Jack < Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com > wrote: If anyone is interested, I have 4 old J-3 rear lift struts taking up space and leaking oil on the floor in my basement. I used front struts off two J-3's for my Piet. Rears are a little smaller but are much less trouble than the front struts (the front struts had the fairleads for the aileron cables which had to be removed and ground down). $50 plus shipping and they are yours. Shipping will have to be by truck if they are full length, or I can cut them down to 8' to be shipped by UPS. Be sure 8' will be enough for your installation before you tell me to cut them. I've been planning to put them on ebay, but want to offer them to the Piet family first. Jack Phillips NX899JP Looking forward to tomorrow - beautiful October weather and two fly-ins to go to in my Pietenpol -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley That's funny Leon, I also finished my second wing right after Broadhead/Osh. Maybe it was that little tailgate party at Broadhead that got up all pumped up. And I am right where you are with the flying strut thing. I have been thinking about this since I started the project: "Just go into any hanger anywhere and you will find old Cub struts in great shape" - NOT! "Just get aluminum struts, only $50 each" - but you better have an engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues with age and steel does not. "Just use round 4130 tubing" - but I will lose at least one mph cruise speed and my Piet will look like an ultralight, and you guys will laugh at me if I ever make it to Broadhead. "Alright, just bite the bullet and buy NEW 4130 streamline" - but that will cost a fortune! Round and round I go. So I called Dillsberg the other day and 2.3 by 1.0 streamline will cost me $27/ft. (for 8 foot lengths) and AS came in at $21.76 believe it or not, Wicks is about the same. By the way, I stopped at the Zenith booth at Oshkosh and looked at the struts on the 701 which is nearly identical gross weight. Looking at the plans I noticed the 4 round 4130 struts on it are 1 1/4" .035! Making .049 4130 streamline struts about two to four times that needed for utility class. Rick On 10/10/06, Leon Stefan < lshutks@webtv.net > wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List k" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> turn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com "return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:13 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Hi Rick: Anyone who doesn't fly to Brodhead ought to drive in in pickup trucks. We could all gather at the trees, circle the pickups, tail gates inward, with beer coolers in the center. What a party! A bunch of drinking, pissing Piet builders telling lies about their construction and flying adventures. I could bring my barrel of do-over scrapped parts as a conversation starter. Yah, I think about all of those strut worries you mentioned. That is why I haven't ordered any material to build them yet. Another couple of options are round steel tube with that plastic streamline material to cover it. You would have to watch others who would grab a strut and help you push or pull. It strikes me as kind of fragile. Also something Doug Bryant did that worked quite well. He had a piece of flat steel bent in a V shape and welded to the back side of the strut tube. He ran it by engineers at Raytheon. (Beechcraft) who gave it their seal of approval. It was stiff enough that he didn't use jury struts. The V material also gave a streamlining effect. There is always a way, just which one to try. Leon S. Ks. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:58 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut From: I was even lazier,I had a machinist make anything like that which you talk of.It cost money but then it keeps the wheels of the system going around and I know it's been done properly.The machinist I speak of was referred to me by another pilot who used him extensively in the making of his Christavia.Just another idea. Do not archive unless you think it has merit. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: October 13, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut Chuck Are you making another Piet? I thought yours was done. Anyhow, how would welding two straps to either side of the tube and bolting that through the top cabane bolt be stronger than smashing the top end of the tube, drilling a hole in it and bolting that through the outside of the upper cabane bolt? If it's to make it look better I think the best looking solution is to add a metal tab to the top front of the cabane and and attach the tube to that as Jack P. and others has done. But I am too lazy to do that and will probably just smash, round, and edge weld the ends. Rick On 10/12/06, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/12/2006 9:49:58 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Hey guys What size tubing did you guys use for the diagonal struts running from the top engine mounts to the top of the front cabanes? Did you smash and weld the ends? Hey Rick, I've been working on those struts for a while now, because I'm at a stumbling block on how to do the upper end. I'm using 5/8" X .065" wall for the tubing. I didn't smash the tube at either end. I terminated the lower end with a piece of 7/16" X .065 wall (perpendicular to strut) that is reamed for the 5/16" bolt, then did a wrap around and up the tube kind of finger patch, made from .063" flat 4130 steel. Just today I made a cardboard templet for the upper end, that terminates at the upper bolt for the cabane struts. I've got to do that end a little different. I am good with the outboard .063" strap, but I don't like how I'll have to do the inboard strap, because of the 'X' cables in front of the front windshield. I will have to make a pretty big notch in that strap, because of the little bracket that the fwd 'X' cables attach to....Any ideas on how I can make that inboard strap at the upper end ?? I already made and installed a bushing on the floor for the front seat belt extension, so I can take my Fat buddies up for a ride... Chuck G. NX770CG ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List k" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://forums.matronics.com "return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://wiki.matronics.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:56 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley Jack, This is like a gift from the Pietenpol Gods. My measurements from the fuselage strut fitting bolt hole to the spar fitting hole is 7' 11". So wit h the forks and fittings sticking out of each end I will need something under eight feet. So eight feet is fine and I won't need the cut offs. So each of these struts has a threaded barrel welded to one end for the forks? Send m e your address and the shipping costs and I will get a check in the mail for $50 plus shipping plus the cost of a case of Guinness so you can get yourself some 'Aviator Red' or whatever, I don't think I have seen that stuff out here in Colorado. Thank you very much, Rick at7000ft@gmail.com do not archive On 10/13/06, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > OK Rick ' they're yours. I'll try to get them cut and prepared for > shipping this weekend, and get them shipped out to you on Monday. Guinne ss, > huh? I prefer Newcastle, or some of that "Aviator Red" that Rob Busch > brought to Brodhead last year. I'll get my fill of Guinness from Chuck > Gantzer anyway ' he's bet me a Guinness that his Wittman Tailwind will be > faster than my RV-4 with the same engine. This assumes he gets the Tailw ind > flying before I sell the RV-4. > > > I'll cut off the bottom ends of the struts (that's where the rust will be , > that caused the AD that made all these J-3 struts available), and will > include the clevis forks with the struts (if they are still in place ' I > think they are. Those forks new from AS&S atre $87.50 each). If you wan t > me to send the cutoff ends I will, but they'll have to be bagged in a > plastic bag ' they're full of grease and oil in a vain attempt to keep them > from rusting. > > > Are you SURE that 8' will be enough? It was for mine, but everybody's is > different. > > > I'll go ahead and ship the struts as soon as I get them prepared. I'll > assume you'll be good for the money, and that way I can let you know what > the shipping cost is. > > > Jack Phillips > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Friday, October 13, 2006 3:21 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley > > > Jack > > Jack, I will take them. And yes they can be cut down to 8 foot lengths fo r > UPS shipment. Will send you separte email with shipping info. And please > let me send you a case of good Guinness or something just for going to al l > the trouble. > > Rick > > do not archive > > On 10/13/06, *Phillips, Jack* < Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote: > > If anyone is interested, I have 4 old J-3 *rear* lift struts taking up > space and leaking oil on the floor in my basement. I used front struts o ff > two J-3's for my Piet. Rears are a little smaller but are much less trou ble > than the front struts (the front struts had the fairleads for the aileron > cables which had to be removed and ground down). $50 plus shipping and t hey > are yours. Shipping will have to be by truck if they are full length, or I > can cut them down to 8' to be shipped by UPS. Be sure 8' will be enough for > your installation before you tell me to cut them. > > > I've been planning to put them on ebay, but want to offer them to the Pie t > family first. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > > Looking forward to tomorrow ' beautiful October weather and two fly-ins to > go to in my Pietenpol > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* Friday, October 13, 2006 2:31 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley > > > That's funny Leon, I also finished my second wing right after > Broadhead/Osh. Maybe it was that little tailgate party at Broadhead that got > up all pumped up. And I am right where you are with the flying strut thin g. > I have been thinking about this since I started the project: > > "Just go into any hanger anywhere and you will find old Cub struts in > great shape" - NOT! > > "Just get aluminum struts, only $50 each" - but you better have an > engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you > use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in > soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues wi th > age and steel does not. > > "Just use round 4130 tubing" - but I will lose at least one mph cruise > speed and my Piet will look like an ultralight, and you guys will laugh a t > me if I ever make it to Broadhead. > > "Alright, just bite the bullet and buy NEW 4130 streamline" - but that > will cost a fortune! > > Round and round I go. So I called Dillsberg the other day and 2.3 by 1.0s treamline will cost me $27/ft. (for 8 foot lengths) and AS came in at > $21.76 believe it or not, Wicks is about the same. > > By the way, I stopped at the Zenith booth at Oshkosh and looked at the > struts on the 701 which is nearly identical gross weight. Looking at the > plans I noticed the 4 round 4130 struts on it are 1 1/4" .035! Making .04 9 > 4130 streamline struts about two to four times that needed for utility > class. > > Rick > > On 10/10/06, *Leon Stefan* < lshutks@webtv.net> wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > HI, the other Mike C. and Chuck: Steve Beasley had written several > notes in the old Buckeye newsletter (before Grant). I met him once at > the EAA meeting at Ellsworth, then again at a function at Wiebie"s > airport at Halsted. At that time he had a Model B engine and not much > more. This was a few years ago. Maybe he is doing something now. Yah > Chuck I've noticed the good fall flying weather. In fact I just hang my > head and cry when I think that I should be up there. I still have the > directions to your hangar. I'll get there one day. I promise. After > Brodhead and Osh. I got my ass in gear and built my right (2nd) wing. > I don't know if Brodhead inspired me or if I just realised I needed to > get with it. I worked most weekends and an hour or so each day from > early Aug. until a week ago when It is 98% done. I hope to get a couple > of good weekend days with no rain so I can stick the wings on, string > the cables and measure for the struts before it gets too cold to work on > it. EAA ch 88 is at Webies-Halsted this mo. I am going to be there > around noon after I get a little shut eye. Maybe you two could get over > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > > * * > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > > * * > > _________________________________________________ > > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile ged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. An y other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > > * * > > * * > > *.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank" onclick="re turn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">* > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *k" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">* > > * * > > *turn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com* > > *"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">* > > * * > > *rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com* > > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > * > > * * > > *_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">* > > * * > > ** > > *===========* > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile ged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. An y other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:15 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols Broadhead is a little far for me to drive my truck next year but bringing a cooler full of beer is no problem. Concerning the struts, I agree that the streamline plastic covers would be too fragile especially if you have a lot of people getting in and out of the front seat. Rick do not archive On 10/13/06, Leon Stefan wrote: > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) > > Hi Rick: Anyone who doesn't fly to Brodhead ought to drive in in pickup > trucks. We could all gather at the trees, circle the pickups, tail gates > inward, with beer coolers in the center. What a party! A bunch of > drinking, pissing Piet builders telling lies about their construction > and flying adventures. I could bring my barrel of do-over scrapped parts > as a conversation starter. Yah, I think about all of those strut worries > you mentioned. That is why I haven't ordered any material to build them > yet. Another couple of options are round steel tube with that plastic > streamline material to cover it. You would have to watch others who > would grab a strut and help you push or pull. It strikes me as kind of > fragile. Also something Doug Bryant did that worked quite well. He had a > piece of flat steel bent in a V shape and welded to the back side of the > strut tube. He ran it by engineers at Raytheon. (Beechcraft) who gave it > their seal of approval. It was stiff enough that he didn't use jury > struts. The V material also gave a streamlining effect. There is always > a way, just which one to try. Leon S. Ks. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:19 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The streamline strut tube end smash In a message dated 10/13/2006 1:49:07 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: If you do not smash the ends should washers be added inside the struts to keep it from sliding up and down? Don't smash the ends. The plans show on the inside of the STEEL lift struts, make the 'Lollypop Fittings' that terminate the upper ends of the Lift Struts. (Doug Bryant gave them that name) Then BRAZE a washer to the outside, but keep the I.D. of the washer small enough for a final ream to the size of the bolt. If you use these plans type 'Lollypop Fittings', there is No need to make adjustable lift struts. They are easy enough to make another one with slightly different length, in the event that the Incidence didn't come out just right. On my Tailwind, there is several places that leave them original diameter, and drill the ends to accept a .058" wall bushing to be welded in, with the I.D. of the diameter bolt needed. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:36 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut In a message dated 10/13/2006 1:52:23 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: .065" off of the inside end of the horizontal tube that goes through the top of your cabane strut. Can't do that, Rick, because there would be no material left there in the inboard side of the top of the cabane strut. Chuck ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:34 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Beasley In a message dated 10/13/2006 2:47:22 PM Central Standard Time, Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com writes: I=99ll get my fill of Guinness from Chuck Gantzer anyway =93 he =99s bet me a Guinness that his Wittman Tailwind will be faster than my RV-4 with the same engine. This assumes he gets the Tailwind flying before I sell the RV-4. Well, Jack, I've been hard after building on the Tailwind all summer...to th e point of forfeiting some fine flying weather to work on the W10. I've got some 'Top Secret Go Fast' ideas that will be used. I just hope you keep tha t spam can a few more years !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:41 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpols In a message dated 10/13/2006 4:25:41 PM Central Standard Time, lshutks@webtv.net writes: What a party! A bunch of drinking, pissing Piet builders telling lies about their construction and flying adventures. Hey !! I've got a couple stories to tell !! Did I ever tell ya about the time when I was flying along, all fat dumb & happy, when all of a sudden....well, never mind...haven't had enough beer yet. :) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:40 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut In a message dated 10/13/2006 12:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Are you making another Piet? I thought yours was done. No, not building another one, just doing some mods. I have always had the cables on the right side of the front pit, and would like to do away with them. Anyhow, how would welding two straps to either side of the tube and bolting that through the top cabane bolt be stronger than smashing the top end of the tube, drilling a hole in it and bolting that through the outside of the upper cabane bolt? If it's to make it look better I think the best looking solution is to add a metal tab to the top front of the cabane and and attach the tube to that as Jack P. and others has done. I like the way Corky did it (Oscar sent me a good picture of it), by welding the straps on each side of each front cabane strut, then attaching the slanted strut to that - that keeps the welds in shear. I don't like the tab on the front, because then the weld is in tension. What I was trying to describe DOES NOT smash any tubes...I don't like that idea at all. My present idea that I tried to describe, is to weld tabs to the upper ends of the slanted struts, and bolt them to the top cabane strut. The problem lies on the inboard side of the cabanes, where the front 'X' cable attach tabs are. My challenge is to do it without welding on the cabane struts, in order to save all of work of disassembly for welding. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:05 PM PST US From: Gene Beenenga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Gene Beenenga Has anyone ever tested the strength of the aluminum streamlined strut for use as cabane struts? I am not sure how one would conduct either a destructive test or a non destructive test. I am planing on using them on a GN-1. Gene in Springfield -----Original Message----- >From: Rcaprd@aol.com >Sent: Oct 13, 2006 5:06 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut > >In a message dated 10/13/2006 12:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, >at7000ft@gmail.com writes: >Are you making another Piet? I thought yours was done. >No, not building another one, just doing some mods. I have always had the >cables on the right side of the front pit, and would like to do away with them. > >Anyhow, how would welding two straps to either side of the tube and bolting >that through the top cabane bolt be stronger than smashing the top end of the >tube, drilling a hole in it and bolting that through the outside of the upper >cabane bolt? If it's to make it look better I think the best looking solution >is to add a metal tab to the top front of the cabane and and attach the tube to >that as Jack P. and others has done. >I like the way Corky did it (Oscar sent me a good picture of it), by welding >the straps on each side of each front cabane strut, then attaching the slanted >strut to that - that keeps the welds in shear. I don't like the tab on the >front, because then the weld is in tension. >What I was trying to describe DOES NOT smash any tubes...I don't like that >idea at all. My present idea that I tried to describe, is to weld tabs to the >upper ends of the slanted struts, and bolt them to the top cabane strut. The >problem lies on the inboard side of the cabanes, where the front 'X' cable >attach tabs are. My challenge is to do it without welding on the cabane struts, >in order to save all of work of disassembly for welding. > >Chuck G. >NX770CG ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:37 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hey Chuck Hello Chuck G, I talked briefly at Oshkosh with you in 03. My name is Shad Bell and my father has Piet NX92GB. (Gary Bell) We tried to get to Brodhead last year with out success this year but hopefully next year. If we make it next year I will buy the 1st round of beers, God knows I could have used 1 or 2 after the excitement (unwanted) I had last this year trying to get there. I would be interested in hearing about your tailwind. I live on a private airport community, and the owner of the airport built 1 or 2 tailwinds, one of them won something at oshkosh I think. His name is Bill See, and I live in Centerburg Ohio. I am building a Jungster-1 an all wood aero bipe that should be lots of fun. I hope to have it done for brodhead 08, and would love to fly up with dad in his piet. I don't care much to go to the "other fly-in" in WI. It is too comercialized and expensive. Even though I am not a piet builder (yet), I am a Piet flier, and I love the grass roots flying and hope to do some grass roots aero bipe flying in my Jungster over Brodhead in the next few years. I am 28 and don't see many grass roots aviators my age and only hope that they are out there some where. I am proud to be a Piet'er and a home builder and look forward to seeing you all next year at Brodhead 07. Excuse me getting sentimental ( it's the beer) Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:11 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hey Chuck Hey Shad, Yes, I've been keeping up with all your adventures, as you have posted them to the group. I'm glad you & your Dad made it home safely. I didn't make it to Brodhead this year, either. However, my reasons were the 40,000 tops around Kansas City...the ol' Piet just couldn't make it over them !! I think the Jungster-1 design has German roots, and is the plane that a guy built after failing to design & build a plane in 30 days - there was a video about it a few years ago. Looks like a really fun plane to fly, and has aerobatic capabilities. In my experience, there is no finer people out there, than those involved in grassroots aviation, and Brodhead is a fine example. I look forward to meeting you, and all the others there in '07 !! I'm working on finishing up the tail feathers, and control system, but you can see most of what I've got complete on my Tailwind at my web site: http://nx770cg.com/NextProjectTailwind.html Is Bill See still flying his Tailwind ? Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:01 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diagonal strut In a message dated 10/13/2006 7:16:26 PM Central Standard Time, kgbunltd@earthlink.net writes: Has anyone ever tested the strength of the aluminum streamlined strut for use as cabane struts? Personally, I don't like the thought of using aluminum struts on the Piet, for the reasons mentioned a little earlier today - - but you better have an engineer design the end fittings, wrong aluminum alloy and your dead, if you use steel you have dissimilar metal corrosion issues plus steel bolts in soft aluminum will wear the aluminum with time, plus aluminum fatigues with age and steel does not. Chuck G. NX770CG