Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:46 AM - Re: Phone number for Jim Corder (Hegy Props) (Isablcorky@aol.com)
2. 06:07 AM - Mag question (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: Looking for wood (Phillips, Jack)
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Looking for wood (Ben Charvet)
5. 08:18 AM - Re: Looking for wood (TJ Brown)
6. 09:00 AM - Looking for wood (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 09:15 AM - Re: Looking for wood (Jdavis2a@wmconnect.com)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: Looking for wood (shad bell)
9. 10:22 AM - Re: Looking for wood (Phillips, Jack)
10. 02:31 PM - Around Ft. Smith Arkansas (TJ)
11. 06:05 PM - Re: Looking for wood (Clif Dawson)
12. 08:52 PM - Hey buddy, is that a turboprop on your Pietenpol? (Mike Whaley)
13. 11:11 PM - Re: Hey buddy, is that a turboprop on your Pietenpol? (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Phone number for Jim Corder (Hegy Props) |
Dave,
You can find Jim at; 200 S 6th, Olathe, Co 81425. 970-323-6341. IF you can
catch him. He builds beautiful and efficient propellers but it will require
time and patience on your part.
Nathan
Message 2
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--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Chet wrote-
>I have a Ford Model A engine with a Slick mag model number 4032 left
>hand with a serial number 401006. I need a cross referance list number
>for a replacement mag.
I couldn't quickly Google up that model number, but Harry Fenton offers this
info that you might try:
>Unison Industries values feedback and encourages customers to contact
>the Slick Customer Service Department to obtain information on the products
>that they manufacture. For quick access to product support, contact the
>Unison
>Industries/Slick Aircraft Products Customer Service Department in Rockford,
>Il;
>(815) 965-4700, ext. 143; Fax: 815-965-2457;
>E-mail:Todd@UnisonIndustries.com.
Be sure to tell them it's for a farm tractor ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Looking for wood |
Let me add my two cents, and you will almost have a nickel's worth of
advice.
At the risk of starting another "What wood is best" war, I will say that
on a plane like a Pietenpol, 25 lbs makes a very noticeable difference
in flight characteristics. If I could easily shed 25 lbs in mine, I'd
do it in a heartbeat. I used spruce and enjoyed it's characteristics.
It is easier to work than douglas fir, doesn't stink (fir has a strong
turpentine smell when you cut it) and it doesn't split as easily as fir.
It also doesn't form splinters very easily. It is VERY expensive
compared to fir, but then the total cost of the wood in this project is
minimal.
I've got about $15,000 in my Pietenpol, of which half is engine. The
total cost of all the aircraft grade Sitka Spruce in the plane is about
$1,100. Using fir, you could probably make that figure $300, for a
savings of $800 - not chicken feed for sure, but carrying an extra 25
lbs around forever is a pretty high price to pay to save 5% on the total
cost of the plane. Using aircraft grade spruce also saves time having
to sort through lumber at the lumber yard and then plane the material
down to the size you actually need. From Wicks or AS&S you can get wood
already milled to the exact dimensions you need (and they are very
accurate), so all you ned to do is cut it to length.
Your choice. Let the flames begin!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Once we've put these flames out, we can discuss why Resorcinol is
superior to T-88.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimboyer@hughes.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:53 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for wood
Hi TJ
Go to your local lumberyard and pick up/select douglas fir and
use it. It is stronger, easy to work and only about 20% heavier and
since wood is a small part of the Piet it only adds about 25 pounds. It
is also about 25% the cost of spruce.
My two cents; my Piet is all Doug Fir. Cheers, Jim
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for wood |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
After building most of my Piet out of DF, I agree with everything Jack
said, except I haven't flown mine yet and can't comment on the flight
characteristics. I enjoyed searching local lumber yards for usable
lumber and was able to find an incredible deal locally. However, if you
don't have access to a planer I don't think you can get your lumber
dimensions smooth and accurate enough that I would be satisfied. I like
the smell of freshly cut Doug Fir, so that wasn't a problem for me. One
of the beauties of the Pietenpol is the many choices you get to make
along the way, and you won't know how it all worked out for years....
Ben Charvet
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Ben&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
Message 5
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| Subject: | Looking for wood |
Hi again everyone and thanks for the info. Does anyone still have their wood list
so I will know where to get started? The thing that bothers me about Aircraft
Spruce is that I'm really big on customer service and I feel like they are
a big company that doesn't care if I shop with them or not! The quickest way
to make me take my business elsewhere is to just blow me off and not return
emails or phone calls!!! When you don't return my emails in a couple of weeks
or a phone call in 3 days it kinda makes me feel like you don't care if you sell
to me or not! I am in Ft. Smith Arkansas for the next couple of days, if
there's anyone within a couple of hours of here that wouldn't mind me stopping
by asking a thousand questions and drooling over their plane or project. I sure
would appreciate it. Thanks again for all the info and hope to get to meet
some of ya'll soon!
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com> wrote:
Let me add my two cents, and you will almost have a nickel's worth of advice.
At the risk of starting another "What wood is best" war, I will say that on a
plane like a Pietenpol, 25 lbs makes a very noticeable difference in flight characteristics.
If I could easily shed 25 lbs in mine, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I used spruce and enjoyed it's characteristics. It is easier to work than
douglas fir, doesn't stink (fir has a strong turpentine smell when you cut it)
and it doesn't split as easily as fir. It also doesn't form splinters very
easily. It is VERY expensive compared to fir, but then the total cost of the
wood in this project is minimal.
I've got about $15,000 in my Pietenpol, of which half is engine. The total cost
of all the aircraft grade Sitka Spruce in the plane is about $1,100. Using
fir, you could probably make that figure $300, for a savings of $800 - not chicken
feed for sure, but carrying an extra 25 lbs around forever is a pretty
high price to pay to save 5% on the total cost of the plane. Using aircraft grade
spruce also saves time having to sort through lumber at the lumber yard and
then plane the material down to the size you actually need. From Wicks or
AS&S you can get wood already milled to the exact dimensions you need (and they
are very accurate), so all you ned to do is cut it to length.
Your choice. Let the flames begin!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Once we've put these flames out, we can discuss why Resorcinol is superior to
T-88.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimboyer@hughes.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for wood
Hi TJ
Go to your local lumberyard and pick up/select douglas fir and use it. It is
stronger, easy to work and only about 20% heavier and since wood is a small part
of the Piet it only adds about 25 pounds. It is also about 25% the cost of
spruce.
My two cents; my Piet is all Doug Fir. Cheers, Jim
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ics.com com .matronics.com/contribution
TJ Brown
Message 6
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| Subject: | Looking for wood |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
To everything that Jack said about Doug fir, I can wholeheartedly agree
except the smell. I like the smell of it except when you put it on the
sander and burn it. And I had access to a planer to work it to the
dimension I needed so that was not an issue. I will also add that the grain
layers (or whatever you want to call them) alternate very drastically
between the hard growth ring and the softer material in between, so when you
drill a hole through it the bit tends to want to follow the grain and not
your intended line. It's hard to drill a straight, clean hole with a small
diameter bit when you're not drilling perpendicular to the growth rings (as
if you were drilling right into a tree trunk, if you get my drift).
And you would think that a company with the name "Aircraft Spruce" would
highlight their service in that product! Over on the KRNet, many have said
that they prefer to work with Wicks for wood. And if you're in the PacNW
there are a few more sources that aren't readily available to others, unless
you can reduce the shipping cost. I've heard that Edensaw (
http://www.edensaw.com/ ) is a good one but I have not dealt with them
personally.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for wood |
My Piet is also built completely of Douglas Fir and came in at an empty
weight of 615 lbs. with a corvair engine. You can build a light airplane with
fir
if you avoid too many additions and "improvements" and watch the number of
coats on the fabric. Mine has been flying since 95. Have fun, it was a great
prodject
JIM
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for wood |
Hello Group, As far as my experiance goes I have found that gennerally wicks is
cheaper when it comes to spruce, but Aircraft spruce and spec. is cheaper on
hardware like nuts bolts etc. The only Issue I had from wicks was when I ordered
my spars for my Jungster 1 I am building. They sent them all in a 7 ft long
cardboard box and had them all (8 spars total) tightly wrapped with masking
tape to hold them togeather for shipping. TOO tight, it splintered off a small
area where the tape squeezed a little too tight on the corners, in 2 or 3 areas.
Luckily that area is laminated with the interplane strut spar plate and
the damage is not enough damage to cause structural concerns, but it annoys me
to look at it knowing what I paid for the wood. I believe Dad (Gary Bell),
liked dealing with Wicks a lot better than Spruce and Specialty.
Shad
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Looking for wood |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Beautiful project, Ben.
...One of the beauties of the Pietenpol is the many choices you get to
make
along the way, and you won't know how it all worked out for years....
Good point. I would have made some different choices regarding weight
had I known how heavy mine would end up. My empty weight is 745 lbs, or
about 100 lbs heavier than I expected. Climb performance really suffers
(with two 200 lb people on board on a 93 degree F day, it will climb at
100 feet per second, which is the definition of "Service Ceiling".
Problem is, that is at 400' MSL.).
What added so much weight?
Long Fuselage (the list of Pietenpol wts compiled at Brodhead a few
years ago showed the average long fuse Piet weighed about 720 lbs)
Wire Wheels (about 20 lbs heavier than aluminum aircraft wheels)
Wider fuselage (1" extra width added about 10 lbs worth of wood, fabric
and paint)
Wider centersection and bigger fuel tank
Straight Axle landing gear (don't know how much but the axle alone
weighs 20 lbs)
Avionics (radio, transponder, altitude encoder) 7 lbs
Bettery (no generator) 18 lbs
Polyurethane paint (60 lbs)
All of the above made it a more enjoyable airplane to fly, except for
the paint. If I ever recover it, I will use PolyTone rather than
polyurethane, and will save at least 40 lbs.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development
Clinical Technologies and Services
Cardinal Health
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Charvet
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for wood
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet
--> <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
After building most of my Piet out of DF, I agree with everything Jack
said, except I haven't flown mine yet and can't comment on the flight
characteristics. I enjoyed searching local lumber yards for usable
lumber and was able to find an incredible deal locally. However, if you
don't have access to a planer I don't think you can get your lumber
dimensions smooth and accurate enough that I would be satisfied. I like
the smell of freshly cut Doug Fir, so that wasn't a problem for me. One
of the beauties of the Pietenpol is the many choices you get to make
along the way, and you won't know how it all worked out for years....
Ben Charvet
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Be
n&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
_________________________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | Around Ft. Smith Arkansas |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "TJ" <mrclean9588@sbcglobal.net>
I will be here in Ft. Smith the next couple of days and wanted to see if anyone
lives within a couple of hours of here. I would like to see anyones Piet or
Piet project if they dont mind me asking a thousand questions or drooling on it.
Thanks a lot TJ!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70428#70428
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for wood |
MessageIf you check through our now massive message history there
has been tons of discussion on this wood issue. Being a
wood airplane this is reasonable of course. The softwoods
suitable for our use are Sitka spruce, Western Hemlock,
Douglas Fir(not fir at all!) Port Orford Cedar, True Firs, Yellow
Cedar(not really Cedar but Cypress) and possibly pine if you
can find it long and clear enough. If you will peruse the chart I
will give you in a moment you will see that the ratio of strength
verses weight is pretty close to the same across species.
Hemlock is a direct substitute for Sitka( AC43) and if you
reduce the size of fir in the proper dimension it will have the
same strength as Sitka and the same weight. In other words
you will lose that 25lb. Bill Rewey has done this. I agree that
Douglas Fir is a pain to work with, especially when one of those
infamous pitch pockets appears in that final cut!!
My fuselage and ribs are entirely Hemlock from many local yards.
I know what to look for and have a little anal retentivness in this
area. Out of a hundred pieces looked at I may choose one or
possibly two. There are many things to be careful of, one of which
relates to the original felling of the tree. If it is dropped across one
lying on the ground a dislocation of the grain will most likely occur.
Some of you may remember Dagwood and Blonde's dog with the
zig-zag tail that got that way when the door slammed on it. This will
appear similar to that. Basically the grain has been sheared.
Sometimes it's visible to the naked eye and sometimes not! But it
IS deadly! This doesn't happen often but one wood ladder company
was very glad to have a really good insurance policy when a whole
mess of ladders broke and hurt people due to this. There's so much
cross beam and ply in the fuselage that there wouldn't be much danger
if a piece of this was there. The spars are a different story as each is
complete unto itself, just like a ladder beam. 99% of the time you'll
be OK. Just take your time, go over each plank carefully, watch the
grain run-out and grain orientation, signs of knot wood and pitch
pockets and reject most of what you see. The looks I get in the
lumberyards as I pick out, go over and put back piece after piece. :-)
http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html
The wood chart is at the bottom of the page.
Halfway down is a wing load diagram for the Hershey Bar wing.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Looking for wood
Let me add my two cents, and you will almost have a nickel's worth of
advice.
At the risk of starting another "What wood is best" war, I will say
that on a plane like a Pietenpol, 25 lbs makes a very noticeable
difference in flight characteristics. If I could easily shed 25 lbs in
mine, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I used spruce and enjoyed it's
characteristics. It is easier to work than douglas fir, doesn't stink
(fir has a strong turpentine smell when you cut it) and it doesn't split
as easily as fir. It also doesn't form splinters very easily. It is
VERY expensive compared to fir, but then the total cost of the wood in
this project is minimal.
I've got about $15,000 in my Pietenpol, of which half is engine. The
total cost of all the aircraft grade Sitka Spruce in the plane is about
$1,100. Using fir, you could probably make that figure $300, for a
savings of $800 - not chicken feed for sure, but carrying an extra 25
lbs around forever is a pretty high price to pay to save 5% on the total
cost of the plane. Using aircraft grade spruce also saves time having
to sort through lumber at the lumber yard and then plane the material
down to the size you actually need. From Wicks or AS&S you can get wood
already milled to the exact dimensions you need (and they are very
accurate), so all you ned to do is cut it to length.
Your choice. Let the flames begin!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Once we've put these flames out, we can discuss why Resorcinol is
superior to T-88.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimboyer@hughes.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:53 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for wood
Hi TJ
Go to your local lumberyard and pick up/select douglas fir and use
it. It is stronger, easy to work and only about 20% heavier and since
wood is a small part of the Piet it only adds about 25 pounds. It is
also about 25% the cost of spruce.
My two cents; my Piet is all Doug Fir. Cheers, Jim
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ics.com
com
.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
10/26/2006
Message 12
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| Subject: | Hey buddy, is that a turboprop on your Pietenpol? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
OK, bet that subject line caused a few folks to spit their coffee all over
their computer screen... sorry...
I always figured that the Air Camper design has probably had more different
powerplants tried on it than almost any other aircraft... but I have yet to
hear of any Piets with a turboprop (or even better, a true jet.) I know, I
know... it would be wildly impractical, completely inappropriate, and
patently ridiculous. But since the dawn of aviation that's never been an
obstacle to the more adventurous aviators out there. Has anyone here ever
heard of such a thing?
PS - If you had sufficient money, time, skills, and lack of concern for
practicality to try out any concievable powerplant(s) on your Piet, what
would it be?
-Mike the Idly Curious
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hey buddy, is that a turboprop on your Pietenpol? |
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Two small turbojets on the nose, on stalks like the Cri-Cri.
Far enough in so as not to melt the wing and jury struts.
Far enough out so as not to burn off your elbows. :-)
Clif
Or maybe 500 Jetex motors. :-)
>
> I always figured that the Air Camper design has probably had more
> different
> powerplants tried on it than almost any other aircraft... but I have yet
> to
> hear of any Piets with a turboprop (or even better, a true jet.)
> PS - If you had sufficient money, time, skills, and lack of concern for
> practicality to try out any concievable powerplant(s) on your Piet, what
> would it be?
>
> -Mike the Idly Curious
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