Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:25 AM - Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:47 AM - Re: Gorilla Glue (last post) ()
2. 05:07 AM - Icarus Plummet axle failure (HelsperSew@aol.com)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Icarus Plummet axle failure (Phillips, Jack)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending (Dick Navratil)
5. 07:22 AM - Re: Fuse questions... (Dick Navratil)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending ()
7. 08:17 AM - Re: heavy piet (Phillips, Jack)
8. 08:53 AM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending (Jack T. Textor)
9. 09:27 AM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending (Steve Glass)
10. 09:39 AM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending ()
11. 11:55 AM - Re: wing ribs (amsafetyc@aol.com)
12. 12:03 PM - Lexan bending (Oscar Zuniga)
13. 12:14 PM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending (Roman Bukolt)
14. 12:16 PM - Re: Lexan bending (Phillips, Jack)
15. 12:51 PM - room temp bending of Lexan (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
16. 12:58 PM - Re: Lexan bending (Jdavis2a@wmconnect.com)
17. 01:14 PM - Re: room temp bending of Lexan (Jack T. Textor)
18. 01:53 PM - Re: wing ribs (Kirk, Bruce)
19. 02:49 PM - Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol (Dale Johnson)
20. 02:53 PM - Re: heavy piet Lexan bending (Rcaprd@aol.com)
21. 02:55 PM - Re: wing ribs (Rcaprd@aol.com)
22. 05:16 PM - Re: Icarus Plummet axle failure (gcardinal)
23. 07:38 PM - Lexan bending (Oscar Zuniga)
24. 07:51 PM - Re: Is a firewall necessary? (Gene Hubbard)
25. 07:53 PM - Re: Fuse questions... (Gene Hubbard)
26. 08:01 PM - Re: Lexan bending (Gene Hubbard)
27. 08:04 PM - Re: wing ribs (Gene Hubbard)
28. 09:49 PM - Re: Fuse questions... (Clif Dawson)
29. 10:19 PM - Re: Lexan bending (Rcaprd@aol.com)
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Subject: | Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am now officially 43 years old... (arg...)
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and
no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support
their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way
to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
I will be posting the List of Contributors next week, so make sure your name is
on it! :-)
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly
appreciated.
List Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Gorilla Glue (last post) |
That might work on the velcrove that keeps coming off that holds my GPS
unit.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: November 29, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gorilla Glue (last post)
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
I did use Gorilla Glue (my hangar mate's, not mine) on one place on 41CC
and
it was an excellent application. I fabricated new metal straps to
support
the fuel tank from the X-members ahead of the passenger's panel and
needed
to reattach the strips of felt padding that came off the old straps.
Gorilla Glue! The felt is very coarse and porous and would have
required
gobbing on any other glue, but I simply dampened the felt, applied
Gorilla
Glue, and clamped the felt to the metal straps with some clothespins,
knowing that the glue would foam up into the felt and make it grab. It
did.
Like I said, it does have a place and this is one.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Icarus Plummet axle failure |
Jack,
I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall thickness
axle failure.
Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall thickness.
I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to use 12 gauge
chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall thickness. I wonder if your
axle failure was more a function of the welded guide tube (cracks) than it was
wall thickness of the axle. I am thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and
get it magna-fluxed after I weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill
through the axle, but just weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 3
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Subject: | Icarus Plummet axle failure |
The stress analysis I did indicates that a .120" axle will fail at a
load of 2.1 g's (assuming 1150 lbs gross weight). That did not take
into account any stress concentrations due to the welding or holes. As
long as you can guarentee you will never make a hard landing, it should
be fine.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:07 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure
Jack,
I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120
wall thickness axle failure.
Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall
thickness. I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to
use 12 gauge chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall
thickness. I wonder if your axle failure was more a function of the
welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall thickness of the axle. I am
thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it magna-fluxed after I
weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle, but just
weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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Subject: | Re: heavy piet Lexan bending |
MessageGene
Bending Lexan is rather easy. You will need a large size oven and an
understanding wife. Try the oven at about 225-250 deg. Don't set the
Lexan on any metal surfaces, it will leave marks. Cover surface with
paper, like a grogery bag. Try test peices first for timing. After
10+/- min. it will soften.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet
Jack,
Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine?
Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into
Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake
them in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of
the other) makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy
day. Rather than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the
middle with the sides at about 45 degrees.
Thanks
Gene
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Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
Roman
I was faced with the same thing, but instead of dead weight, I added a
battery on the firewall. I powers a belly strobe and my VHF and GPS. I
never worry about running out of power in flight.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels@tds.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
> <conceptmodels@tds.net>
>
> And I have a 35 lb. lead weight bolted to the top of my A-65 because this
> Piet was originally designed for a Corvair engine.
> Roman Bukolt.
> Actually with the added dead weight it now weighs 35lbs. more, empty, and
> mine is a long fuselage and a three piece wing spanning 30ft 5 ins.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
>
>
>> <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>>
>> Just to compare.
>>
>> My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece
>> wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
>> No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
>> center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
>>
>> That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a
>> similar setup.
>>
>> Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
>>
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> NX15KV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | heavy piet Lexan bending |
As you can see from my windows,they are sectionalized using aluminum
joints.Kind of gives it that retro look.I painted them black for extra
effect.My AME wanted me to change them to the lexan type that just curve
around but I like this type better.Makes it look like it came out of the
twenty's.
________________________________
Message 7
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Operator error. I had not been getting enough carb heat with my heat
muff arrangement, so I had added a wad of stainless steel wool to
increase the heat transfer area inside the heat muff. Tests indicated
the steel wool was secure, and I had flown with it for about 5 hours
with no problems. However, in all previous flights I had only turned
carb heat on just before going to idle power. On this flight, I was
picking up carb ice in level flight, so I turned the carb heat on and
continued to run the engine at cruise power or higher. The constant
suction from the carburetor was sufficient to suck the stainless steel
wook through a very small orifice and into the throat of the carburetor,
where it choked the engine to the point that it would only put out about
1200 RPM. The good news was, when I pulled the carb after the incident,
all the steel wool was still in the throat of the carb, and none of it
got into the engine.
Needless to say, during the rebuild the heat muffs received a lot of
attention.
BTW, the FAA was very good to work with throughout the whole experience.
They wanted a report when I figured out the cause of the engine failure.
Once I sent them that (with pictures) they were satisfied, and
congratulated me on the landing (and on not hurting anyone). No
repercussions. I had heard horror stories about what they would do to
you if you landed on a highway. I was glad I was alone, with a current
medical and BFR, and was well within the box they had asigned for my
testing (it was within the 25 hour test phase - the plane only had 7
hours on it at the time).
Jack
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Pietsrneat@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:43 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet
In a message dated 11/29/2006 3:10:45 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time, Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com writes:
By the time I got the plane rebuilt and was ready to
re-shoot thephotos, Private Pilot was no longer in business. The
author/photographer that was doing the story now writes freelance for
AOPA Pilot. He's trying to get some interest there for the story, but
they are much less interested in homebuilts.
Jack
And what was the story on the engine?
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Message 8
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Subject: | heavy piet Lexan bending |
Holy cow what a control stick!
Jack Textor
As you can see from my windows,they are sectionalized using aluminum
joints.Kind of gives it that retro look.I painted them black for extra
effect.My AME wanted me to change them to the lexan type that just curve
around but I like this type better.Makes it look like it came out of the
twenty's.
________________________________
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: heavy piet Lexan bending |
Hi Gene
If you just want to bend the lexan in a straight line, rather than form it,
you could do it with a strip heater. An old oven element would be enough as
I would think you are not talking much more than about 12". I would suggest
getting some offcuts and experimenting. A heat gun would also do the job.
You could clamp some plywood to each side of the bend and just leave 1/2"
exposed. Heat till soft and bend to a set angle let cool and do the other
side.
Best regards
Steve in maine
>From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Lexan bending
>Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:13:32 -0600
>
>MessageGene
>Bending Lexan is rather easy. You will need a large size oven and an
>understanding wife. Try the oven at about 225-250 deg. Don't set the
>Lexan on any metal surfaces, it will leave marks. Cover surface with
>paper, like a grogery bag. Try test peices first for timing. After 10+/-
>min. it will soften.
>Dick N
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gene & Tammy
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet
>
>
> Jack,
> Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine?
> Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into
>Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake them
>in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of the other)
>makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy day. Rather
>than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the middle with the sides
>at about 45 degrees.
> Thanks
> Gene
>
>
>_________________________________________________
>
>This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
>privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
>received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
>
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>
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>
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>received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
>
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>
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Message 10
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Subject: | heavy piet Lexan bending |
That was just there temporarily.My AME let me use a stick he had.We
wanted to see how a curved stick would do.I installed a straight stick
later that just misses the instrument panel by an inch.The curved
stick,only shorter would have gotten in the way(stuck in my belly etc.).
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T.
Textor
Sent: November 30, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Lexan bending
Holy cow what a control stick!
Jack Textor
As you can see from my windows,they are sectionalized using aluminum
joints.Kind of gives it that retro look.I painted them black for extra
effect.My AME wanted me to change them to the lexan type that just curve
around but I like this type better.Makes it look like it came out of the
twenty's.
________________________________
Message 11
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Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet material
rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms of strength
and weight? Is there a wing stress chart available, something that illustrates
the stress values at specific wing locations?
Thanks for your help
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com
Sent: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure
The stress analysis I did indicates that a .120" axle will fail at a load of 2.1
g's (assuming 1150 lbs gross weight). That did not take into account any stress
concentrations due to the welding or holes. As long as you can guarentee
you will never make a hard landing, it should be fine.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure
Jack,
I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall thickness axle
failure.
Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall thickness. I went
back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to use 12 gauge chrome moly
tube, which equates to only .109" wall thickness. I wonder if your axle failure
was more a function of the welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall
thickness of the axle. I am thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it
magna-fluxed after I weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle,
but just weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
ectric.com
">www.buildersbooks.com
og.com
builthelp.com
.matronics.com/contribution
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
_________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________
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My understanding was that Lexan (polycarbonate) could be bent without using
heat or anything else, just like sheet metal in a brake or around a form,
especially thinner stuff, and it would not break. Incorrect?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: heavy piet Lexan bending |
MessageLexan which is polycarbonate can be cold formed, unlike acrylic
A.K.A Plexiglas.
I've built many machine guards when I worked at Oscar Mayer out of
Lexan. Needless to say you have to way overbend because of spring back
but it can be done. I've found that heating with a heat gun can be
touchy because before you know it you might have heated too much and get
distortion in the bend.
Roman Bukolt
NX 20795
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Lexan bending
Gene
Bending Lexan is rather easy. You will need a large size oven and an
understanding wife. Try the oven at about 225-250 deg. Don't set the
Lexan on any metal surfaces, it will leave marks. Cover surface with
paper, like a grogery bag. Try test peices first for timing. After
10+/- min. it will soften.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet
Jack,
Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine?
Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into
Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake
them in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of
the other) makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy
day. Rather than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the
middle with the sides at about 45 degrees.
Thanks
Gene
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
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You can bend it, but at the bend it will turn white.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lexan bending
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
My understanding was that Lexan (polycarbonate) could be bent without
using
heat or anything else, just like sheet metal in a brake or around a
form,
especially thinner stuff, and it would not break. Incorrect?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | room temp bending of Lexan |
Oscar-- I bent my windshields without heat-- they are Lexan and held in
place with three aluminum brackets.
I cut the Lexan with a sabre saw, filed the edges with a metal file,
then sanded them smoother and drilled, using a regular drill bit, the
holes.
I ran a de-burr or counter sink by hand on the three drill holes (each
side) to help prevent any stress risers. Plexi is the bear to work
with
and will break if not warm bent. Bingelis explains the whole thing in
his books--what you can do with each type of plastic.
Mike
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Subject: | Re: Lexan bending |
I bent my windshields cold in a homemade brake. I used 3/16 material. The
other two piets on the field did theirs the same way. Seems to work fine.
Mine have ben on the plane since 1995 with no cracking or crazing. Jim
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Subject: | room temp bending of Lexan |
Mike,
I don't recall seeing the? Leather ? behind your cockpit, is that new?
Jack Textor
Oscar-- I bent my windshields without heat-- they are Lexan and held in
place with three aluminum brackets.
I cut the Lexan with a sabre saw, filed the edges with a metal file,
then sanded them smoother and drilled, using a regular drill bit, the
holes.
I ran a de-burr or counter sink by hand on the three drill holes (each
side) to help prevent any stress risers. Plexi is the bear to work
with
and will break if not warm bent. Bingelis explains the whole thing in
his books--what you can do with each type of plastic.
Mike
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John
Look at the Bowers Flybaby, it uses plywood ribs. The
conclusion
from what I looked into is that the Plywood rib is much
heavier than that of
the traditional builtup rib. A rib that is lighter than
that of the traditional method is one that I believe was
incorporated in the Longster of the 1930's. It uses no
gussets and two cap strips on top of the rib and two on
the bottom with the cross
members sandwiched in between.
Bruce
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol |
Gary
Are you sure it was caseine glue and not hide glue.
Most furniture used hide glue and still do.
Put it in a heat pot and spread it on.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
Sent: 11/29/2006 3:18:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. resorcinol
Just a short comment,
Lets remember that some of the old airplanes (some still flying) were glued with
pre resorcinol ot T-88 glues, like Caseine glue and few are still flying or
in museums in perfect shape.
I have a few family furniture bonded with Caseine Glue that is in better shape
that the newer with modern glues...
Barnishing and mantainance is very important will prevent any wood around the joint
to fail for moisture, the glue will be perfect but the wood around could
fail... like an old barn roof.
Good inspection every year to all wood, wood joints and ply is important for a
sound (wood) airplane. Dont forget proper installed dain holes and some venting.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours of
boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet!
This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are taverns,
hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol? I'll
settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very
endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about
proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick
curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation use
for a long time.
But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
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Subject: | Re: heavy piet Lexan bending |
In a message dated 11/30/2006 2:16:46 PM Central Standard Time,
conceptmodels@tds.net writes:
Lexan which is polycarbonate can be cold formed, unlike acrylic A.K.A
Plexiglas.
One of the drawbacks with Lexan (polycarbonate) is that if fuel comes in
contact with it, it will stress crack it. This happened to my first curved 1/8"
Lexan windshield, after I overfilled the cowling tank in flight. It had many
cracks around the three mounting points, but it never did break. It took
several days, or weeks, before the many little cracks showed up.
1/8" curved Lexan (no heat required), with three mount points, is the
simplest, lightest, toughest, and easiest to build...oh yeah...and it's to the
plans, too.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time,
amsafetyc@aol.com writes:
Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet
material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms of
strength and weight?
Plywood wing ribs are much heavier, and not all that much easier to build.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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Subject: | Re: Icarus Plummet axle failure |
MessageJack,
Did adding brakes force you to use an axle that is longer than the F&G
plans?
NX18235 is brakeless and is using 1 1/2 X .120 tubing. I have made some
horrifically hard landings at 1100 pounds with no sign of axle bending.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure
The stress analysis I did indicates that a .120" axle will fail at a
load of 2.1 g's (assuming 1150 lbs gross weight). That did not take
into account any stress concentrations due to the welding or holes. As
long as you can guarentee you will never make a hard landing, it should
be fine.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:07 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure
Jack,
I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall
thickness axle failure.
Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall
thickness. I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to
use 12 gauge chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall
thickness. I wonder if your axle failure was more a function of the
welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall thickness of the axle. I am
thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it magna-fluxed after I
weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle, but just
weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
ectric.com
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og.com
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Message 23
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Chuck wrote-
>1/8" curved Lexan (no heat required), with three mount points, is the
>simplest, lightest, toughest, and easiest to build...oh yeah...and it's to
>the
>plans, too.
Now you know better than that, Chuck! There warn't no sich thing as
polycarbo... parleycarbo...pollywhozis... you know what I mean (Lexan) back
in 1932 so how could Lexan be "to the plans"? ;o)
Corky built 41CC pretty darned close to what you describe (curved, 1/8"
thick, one-piece acrylic) except it has five mounting points per windscreen
rather than three. I just thought that if guys were going for the 3-panel
rectilinear windscreen and were already going to use metal angles at the
bends, they could bend the Lexan cold and cover the crazing or milky color
with the metal anyway. Some pop rivets and you're done. There is something
to be said for the 3-panel flat windscreen for that old-timey look, too.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Is a firewall necessary? |
You won't get enough heat from an engine fire to sustain burning
aluminum (it's also a component in solid rocket fuel), but aluminum
melts at just over a thousand degrees. It doesn't give much protection
after it drips out the bottom of your cowling...
Waiting for authorization for my final inspection on NX421GN. Otherwise
ready to fly.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego, CA
harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote:
>
>At a certain heat temperature,of which I cannot remember,aluminum will
>act like magnesium ignited and believe me you don't want that for a fire
>wall.The English found this out in the Fuaklins War(not sure of spelling
>here) when their ships burned quite quickly to the waterline.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
>Vander Voort
>Sent: November 29, 2006 11:04 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?
>
><hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
>Alan,
>
>Titanium is lighter than stainless,
>More corrosion resistant than stainless
>
>But has a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless, almost the
>same
>as Aluminum.
>Thus I would not recommend using it as the main objective of the
>firewall
>is insulation from heat not fire (the same reason we use fibrefrax)
>
>I work for a company that makes plate heat exchangers out of titanium,
>excellent material for that duty.
>
>Hans
>
>
>
>
> "Alan Lyscars"
>
> <alyscars@maine.r
>
> r.com>
>To
> Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> owner-pietenpol-l
>cc
> ist-server@matron
>
> ics.com
>Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall
>
> necessary?
>
> 11/29/2006 09:13
>
> AM
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Chuck,
>
>An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large
>enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless
>steel?
>
>Al in Portland Maine
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rcaprd@aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?
>
> In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time,
> HelsperSew@aol.com writes:
> What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls?
> Dan,
> Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that
>should
> be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less
>expensive
> Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used
> Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not
> into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough
> protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners
>and
> sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to
>collect.
> For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to
> protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit
>to
> the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless
>Steel
> firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not
>weave) I
> could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to
>back
> it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to
> fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of
>the
> FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my
>Tailwind.
> Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will
>Not
> burn.
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/chref="
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
That's consistent with mine--663 lb with a C-75, split-axle gear, three
piece wing, PolyFiber and long fuse. I have a flop panel, but didn't
lengthen the cabanes. Battery, but no starter.
Gene
Hans Vander Voort wrote:
>
>Just to compare.
>
>My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece
>wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
>No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
>center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
>
>That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a
>similar setup.
>
>Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
>
>
>Hans
>
>NX15KV
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Lexan bending |
I bent mine cold, in a brake, and didn't get any craziing. I used
single-weight lexan from home depot.
Gene
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
>You can bend it, but at the bend it will turn white.
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
>Zuniga
>Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:04 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lexan bending
>
>
>--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>My understanding was that Lexan (polycarbonate) could be bent without
>using
>heat or anything else, just like sheet metal in a brake or around a
>form,
>especially thinner stuff, and it would not break. Incorrect?
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
>
>
>_________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
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Don't get spooked by the ribs. Build a jig, and every day, build a new
rib. In a month, you'll be done. Everyone will complement you on your
workmanship.
Gene
Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time,
> amsafetyc@aol.com writes:
>
> Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood
> sheet material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the
> results in terms of strength and weight?
>
> Plywood wing ribs are much heavier, and not all that much easier to build.
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
There's all kinds of things you could put in the nose.
What about that tool roll I know you're all carrying
around. It's ballast until you need it for something
else.
If you do have to add ballast how about a lead ring
on the engine just behind the prop hub or a lead
button hub on the prop like you see on some
Tigermoths. The farther out, the lighter.
You could also seal the tail feathers and the dead
area behind the bellcrank and fill them with helium.
Granted it might be easier to stop eating lunch.
Hmmm, no, I think I'll go with the helium. :-)
Clif
Mister Corky, what's that syringe for?
Go way kid, I have to fill all these ping pong balls
with helium.
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> Roman
> I was faced with the same thing, but instead of dead weight, I added a
> battery on the firewall. I powers a belly strobe and my VHF and GPS. I
> never worry about running out of power in flight.
> Dick N.
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Subject: | Re: Lexan bending |
In a message dated 11/30/2006 9:40:31 PM Central Standard Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
Now you know better than that, Chuck! There warn't no sich thing as
polycarbo... parleycarbo...pollywhozis... you know what I mean (Lexan) back
in 1932 so how could Lexan be "to the plans"? ;o)
Ah, yes...ya caught me, Oscar !! Back then they must have called the clear
plastic - 'Parilin'. At least that's what he called out for the clear
inspection cover on the bottom of the wing, to see the two pulleys just ahead of
the
aileron horns. However, I think the Parilin was closer in characteristics to
Plexi-glass, than Lexan.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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