Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:02 AM - Re: Is a firewall necessary? ()
2. 05:52 AM - Leather behind the cockpit (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
3. 06:41 AM - Re: wing ribs (Rick Holland)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: Fuse questions... (Rick Holland)
5. 07:57 AM - Re: Fuse questions... (Hans Vander Voort)
6. 08:07 AM - Re: wing ribs (amsafetyc@aol.com)
7. 08:44 AM - Re: Fuse questions... ()
8. 09:50 AM - Re: Fuse questions... (Rick Holland)
9. 10:03 AM - Light weight Pietenpol (Bill Church)
10. 10:09 AM - Re: Fuse questions... (Hans Vander Voort)
11. 11:14 AM - Re: Light weight Pietenpol (Jack T. Textor)
12. 11:40 AM - Re: Light weight Pietenpol (DJ Vegh)
13. 11:44 AM - meeting owners (Marshall Lumsden)
14. 11:49 AM - carb heat/steel wool/road landing (Tim Verthein)
15. 12:10 PM - Re: Light weight Pietenpol (Jack T. Textor)
16. 12:14 PM - Re: carb heat/steel wool/road landing (Gene & Tammy)
17. 12:48 PM - road landing (Oscar Zuniga)
18. 01:00 PM - Re: road landing (Phillips, Jack)
19. 01:09 PM - Re: meeting owners (Dave Abramson)
20. 01:29 PM - Re: meeting owners (Marshall Lumsden)
21. 01:39 PM - Re: road landing (walt evans)
22. 01:54 PM - Piet. propeller (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan))
23. 02:42 PM - Re: Piet. propeller (Dale Johnson)
24. 02:49 PM - Re: meeting owners (Dave Abramson)
25. 02:59 PM - Re: Piet. cables (Wizzard187@aol.com)
26. 04:57 PM - Re: Piet. propeller (Dick Navratil)
27. 05:11 PM - Re: Piet. cables (Dick Navratil)
28. 07:58 PM - Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol (Gary Gower)
29. 11:31 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
30. 11:35 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Is a firewall necessary? |
I knew the temp was high but I didn't know it was that high.Hell if the
fire did get that hot you'd just be a ball of fire hurtling across the
sky anyway.Flame on brother!A Pietenpol hurtling;right!(sarcasm
here)(not exactly a shuttle craft is it?)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Hubbard
Sent: November 30, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?
<enhubbard@sbcglobal.net>
You won't get enough heat from an engine fire to sustain burning
aluminum (it's also a component in solid rocket fuel), but aluminum
melts at just over a thousand degrees. It doesn't give much protection
after it drips out the bottom of your cowling...
Waiting for authorization for my final inspection on NX421GN. Otherwise
ready to fly.
Gene Hubbard
San Diego, CA
harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote:
>
>At a certain heat temperature,of which I cannot remember,aluminum will
>act like magnesium ignited and believe me you don't want that for a
fire
>wall.The English found this out in the Fuaklins War(not sure of
spelling
>here) when their ships burned quite quickly to the waterline.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
>Vander Voort
>Sent: November 29, 2006 11:04 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?
>
><hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
>Alan,
>
>Titanium is lighter than stainless,
>More corrosion resistant than stainless
>
>But has a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless, almost the
>same
>as Aluminum.
>Thus I would not recommend using it as the main objective of the
>firewall
>is insulation from heat not fire (the same reason we use fibrefrax)
>
>I work for a company that makes plate heat exchangers out of titanium,
>excellent material for that duty.
>
>Hans
>
>
>
>
> "Alan Lyscars"
>
> <alyscars@maine.r
>
> r.com>
>To
> Sent by: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> owner-pietenpol-l
>cc
> ist-server@matron
>
> ics.com
>Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a
firewall
>
> necessary?
>
> 11/29/2006 09:13
>
> AM
>
>
>
>
>
> Please respond to
>
> pietenpol-list@ma
>
> tronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Chuck,
>
>An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large
>enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to
stainless
>steel?
>
>Al in Portland Maine
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rcaprd@aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?
>
> In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time,
> HelsperSew@aol.com writes:
> What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls?
> Dan,
> Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that
>should
> be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less
>expensive
> Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used
> Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but
not
> into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough
> protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners
>and
> sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to
>collect.
> For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to
> protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward
retrofit
>to
> the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless
>Steel
> firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not
>weave) I
> could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to
>back
> it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to
> fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of
>the
> FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my
>Tailwind.
> Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will
>Not
> burn.
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ">http://www.matronics.com/chref="
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Leather behind the cockpit |
Jack-- I had to put that leather on because I was in too much of a hurry
and didn't think I should use finishing tapes over the stringers on my
turtle deck. Not good. With the 1.8 oz dacron I used getting in and
out of the cockpit rubbed those a bit raw atop my turtle deck and before
too long I had worn a tear in my fabric so I covered the entire affair
with a contact cement backed leather surface. Worked out well and
didn't
take away too much from the looks I don't think. Note to self: use
finishing tapes on all corners, underlying wood members that touch the
fabric.
Mike C.
Message 3
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|
And even if it takes two months to finish the ribs it really isn't slowing
down progress. There are a thousand other things you can be building in
parallel while you are waiting for the glue to set on your rib in the rib
jig. I would glue one together every day before going to work, then take it
out, turn it over and finish gluing the other side when I got home that
night.
Rick
On 11/30/06, Gene Hubbard <enhubbard@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Don't get spooked by the ribs. Build a jig, and every day, build a new
> rib. In a month, you'll be done. Everyone will complement you on your
> workmanship.
>
> Gene
>
> Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time,
> amsafetyc@aol.com writes:
>
> Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet
> material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms
> of strength and weight?
>
> Plywood wing ribs are *much* heavier, and not all that much easier to
> build.
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 4
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at
something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just
recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing
back to get your CG right?
Thanks
Rick
On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
>
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> Just to compare.
>
> My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece
> wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
> No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
> center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
>
> That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a
> similar setup.
>
> Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
>
>
> Hans
>
> NX15KV
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 5
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
Rick,
Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest.
The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back).
It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy.
Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back)
may be this winter.
FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the
plans and weight should not be a problem.
Hans.
"Rick Holland"
<at7000ft@gmail.c
om> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse
questions...
12/01/2006 08:52
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at
something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just
recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing
back to get your CG right?
Thanks
Rick
On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Just to compare.
My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece
wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a
similar setup.
Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 6
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|
Not really spooked by the ribs, I was more considering the idea of weight and strength.
From what I have read so far in my research is that the wing in over
built. I was wondering if you could reduce the weight of the wing and maintain
the same or similar strength with less wood from a thinner piece of plywood and
having no glue joints to present potential sources of failure.
The concept would be to use a router and saw to fashion the rib out of maybe 1/8
plywood if possible but leaving a bit more wood in the rib support cross member
and joint areas at the stress points. With the idea of reducing the weight
of the wings and possibly eliminating the need for gussets at the glue joints
. While maintaining the utmost safety in the entire wing structure.
>From what I have read it seems that there are not a lot of ways to increase the
usable load so I was more considering the idea of weight reduction without sacrificing
integrity or safety. Plus it makes for a great mental exercise to look
at alternatives in construction materials and methods!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: at7000ft@gmail.com
Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing ribs
And even if it takes two months to finish the ribs it really isn't slowing down
progress. There are a thousand other things you can be building in parallel while
you are waiting for the glue to set on your rib in the rib jig. I would glue
one together every day before going to work, then take it out, turn it over
and finish gluing the other side when I got home that night.
Rick
On 11/30/06, Gene Hubbard <enhubbard@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Don't get spooked by the ribs. Build a jig, and every day, build a new rib. In
a month, you'll be done. Everyone will complement you on your workmanship.
Gene
Rcaprd@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, amsafetyc@aol.com
writes:
Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet material
rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms of strength
and weight?
Plywood wing ribs are much heavier, and not all that much easier to build.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________
Message 7
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|
Subject: | Fuse questions... |
I remember seeing a biwing plane covered in clear mylar to save
weight.See pic.One thing about this idea,you would be able to see
anything that was broke inside.The problem with it is that mylar is
really UV sensitive and after one season in the sun she would be brittle
and easy to break.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: December 1, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Rick,
Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest.
The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back).
It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy.
Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning
back)
may be this winter.
FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the
plans and weight should not be a problem.
Hans.
"Rick Holland"
<at7000ft@gmail.c
om>
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse
questions...
12/01/2006 08:52
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at
something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just
recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your
wing
back to get your CG right?
Thanks
Rick
On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Just to compare.
My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three
piece
wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with
a
similar setup.
Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
One other question Hans, is your Corvair engine mount built to the plans, as
far as engine distance forward of the firewall?
Rick
On 12/1/06, Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
>
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> Rick,
>
> Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest.
>
> The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back).
> It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy.
> Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back)
> may be this winter.
>
> FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the
> plans and weight should not be a problem.
>
> Hans.
>
>
> "Rick Holland"
> <at7000ft@gmail.c
> om> To
> Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> owner-pietenpol-l cc
> ist-server@matron
> ics.com Subject
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse
> questions...
> 12/01/2006 08:52
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
> pietenpol-list@ma
> tronics.com
>
>
> This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at
> something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just
> recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing
> back to get your CG right?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
>
> On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
> hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
>
> Just to compare.
>
> My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece
> wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
> No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
> center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
>
> That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a
> similar setup.
>
> Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Light weight Pietenpol |
Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from
Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire
wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds...
Oh yeah, it's half-scale.
Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you would
have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a rudder bar,
fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real museum
piece.
ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930
S_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ
cmdZViewItem
Bill C
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
Rick,
Yes, I build the Pietenpol Corvair motor mount as per drawings.
But did slide the tabs that bolt to the engine 1/2" forward, so the engine
actually sits 1/2 more forward than the plans call for.
With the modern firewall requirements (stainless + fibrefrax on top of the
ply wood ) the oil filter will not clear the Stainless.
Alternatively, You could make a indentation of 1/2" in to the firewall, a
lot of work.
Or use longer motor mount fittings the ones that bolt on the wood at the
forward fuselage (to late for me)
Or use a remote Filter mount. (I did not like this)
Additionally I use the polyurethane vibration mounts that WW suggests.
This will raise the engine some what from what the plans call for (3/4")
So I do have some additional deviation from the plans, but none of them add
weight or reduce strength of the original design.
Hans
"Rick Holland"
<at7000ft@gmail.c
om> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse
questions...
12/01/2006 11:49
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
One other question Hans, is your Corvair engine mount built to the plans,
as far as engine distance forward of the firewall?
Rick
On 12/1/06, Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Rick,
Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest.
The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back).
It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy.
Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back)
may be this winter.
FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the
plans and weight should not be a problem.
Hans.
"Rick Holland"
< at7000ft@gmail.c
om>
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse
questions...
12/01/2006 08:52
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at
something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just
recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing
back to get your CG right?
Thanks
Rick
On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort < hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com> wrote:
hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Just to compare.
My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece
wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs.
No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch),
center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons
That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with
a
similar setup.
Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Light weight Pietenpol |
Bill,
I would be tempted to fly it!
Jack Textor
Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from
Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire
wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds...
Oh yeah, it's half-scale.
Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you would
have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a rudder bar,
fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real museum
piece.
ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930
S_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ
cmdZViewItem
Bill C
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: Light weight Pietenpol |
ohhhh my! I must own it!
DJ Vegh
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light weight Pietenpol
Bill,
I would be tempted to fly it!
Jack Textor
Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from
Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire
wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds...
Oh yeah, it's half-scale.
Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you
would have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a
rudder bar, fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real
museum piece.
ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930S
_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcm
dZViewItem
Bill C
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-List
Message 13
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My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol
owners in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance
writer who has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine.
I've suggested an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead
with it. I'm also interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers
or fly-ins anywhere in the country in the next six months.
My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa
and Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a
time when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.")
My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where
a neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He
taught himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto
a two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a
cultivator seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a
remarkable achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his
Pietenpol for good, but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat
farm landscape in a store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for
the rest of his long life.
The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing
slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Message 14
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Subject: | carb heat/steel wool/road landing |
Intersting post.
The new issue of "Aviation Safety" cover story is about landing on
roads and highways in an emergency. I was expecting to find at least a
paragraph telling of the FAA/DOT and whoever else would get excited and
the evils of doing this, but nothing of that sort was mentioned in the
article. How to do it, when not to do it, case stories, etc, but not a
word about regulatory issues related to this. There's lots of info on
how to do it safely, etc but not even a hint of "last resort" attitude.
Anyone know more that this magazine article failed to offer? Seemed
odd to me that a mag of this nature would NOT include legal troubles
caused by choosing road over an adjacent field, if there are in fact,
any issues. Perhaps the evils of regulatory troubles caused by an
emergency landing on a road are urban legends? I have no idea,
personally I always thought you'd be in heap big trouble, but not a
mention here!
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Message 15
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Subject: | Light weight Pietenpol |
I won't bdb on then DJ, I crashed to many RC's
Jack Textor
ohhhh my! I must own it!
DJ Vegh
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor <mailto:jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light weight Pietenpol
Bill,
I would be tempted to fly it!
Jack Textor
Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to
plans from Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered,
with wire wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65
pounds...
Oh yeah, it's half-scale.
Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos
you would have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a
rudder bar, fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real
museum piece.
ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930
S_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ
cmdZViewItem
Bill C
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
o
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: carb heat/steel wool/road landing |
Tim,
In some areas in the west and very often in Alaska, road landings are a way
of life. I know several pilots that keep their plane at home and use the
road for an airstrip every time they fly.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb heat/steel wool/road landing
> <minoxphotographer@yahoo.com>
>
> Intersting post.
> The new issue of "Aviation Safety" cover story is about landing on
> roads and highways in an emergency. I was expecting to find at least a
> paragraph telling of the FAA/DOT and whoever else would get excited and
> the evils of doing this, but nothing of that sort was mentioned in the
> article. How to do it, when not to do it, case stories, etc, but not a
> word about regulatory issues related to this. There's lots of info on
> how to do it safely, etc but not even a hint of "last resort" attitude.
> Anyone know more that this magazine article failed to offer? Seemed
> odd to me that a mag of this nature would NOT include legal troubles
> caused by choosing road over an adjacent field, if there are in fact,
> any issues. Perhaps the evils of regulatory troubles caused by an
> emergency landing on a road are urban legends? I have no idea,
> personally I always thought you'd be in heap big trouble, but not a
> mention here!
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
> ==
> You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
> ==
>
>
>
Message 17
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I'm not sure about other states, but I'll bet you a doughnut that if you
land an airplane on a California highway, they will find a way to tax or
fine you. After all, you didn't pay road use taxes on the fuel in that tank
(unless you're running autogas), and you sure didn't pay any excise tax on
those tires to help pay for the highways. Everything seems to be illegal in
CA except the things that should be ;o)
I wondered the same thing about operating a floatplane off of public
waters... lakes, impoundments, even rivers. I guess people do it but there
must be some prohibition about operating something other than a registered
watercraft on public waters.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
Message 18
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Actually, seaplane operations vary greatly by state. In North Carolina,
for instance, there are very few places where you can legally land a
seaplane. I live between two good sized lakes, Jordan Lake (14,000
acres) and Harris Lake (4,400 acres). Jordan is owned and operated by
the US Army Corps of Engineers and seaplane operations are forbidden.
Harris is owned by Progress Energy and seaplanes are allowed to operate
if they have written permission from Progress Energy.
The Seaplane Pilots Association published a Water Landing Directory with
regulations listed by state. I'll have to look at mine to see if
seaplane operations are allowed in California. I've already verified
that when I retire and move to Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia, sepalnes
are welcomed there. I wonder how a Pietenpol on floats would do?
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: road landing
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
I'm not sure about other states, but I'll bet you a doughnut that if you
land an airplane on a California highway, they will find a way to tax or
fine you. After all, you didn't pay road use taxes on the fuel in that
tank
(unless you're running autogas), and you sure didn't pay any excise tax
on
those tires to help pay for the highways. Everything seems to be
illegal in
CA except the things that should be ;o)
I wondered the same thing about operating a floatplane off of public
waters... lakes, impoundments, even rivers. I guess people do it but
there
must be some prohibition about operating something other than a
registered
watercraft on public waters.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
_________________________________________________
Message 19
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Hello Marshall,
I am living in Garden Grove, but building in Santa Maria. All I have here
are my wing ribs, my fuselage is at the Santa Maria Airport.
Where are you located?
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall
Lumsden
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners
My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol owners
in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance writer who
has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine. I've suggested
an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead with it. I'm also
interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers or fly-ins anywhere in
the country in the next six months.
My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa and
Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a time
when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.")
My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where a
neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He taught
himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto a
two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a cultivator
seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a remarkable
achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his Pietenpol for good,
but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat farm landscape in a
store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for the rest of his long
life.
The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing
slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents.
I look forward to hearing from you.
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: meeting owners |
Hi Dave: I'm in Malibu. Sometime before long I'd like to talk to you
about your involvement with Pietenpols. My phone number is
310-457-7511. Why are you building in Santa Maria, by the way?
ML
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners
Hello Marshall,
I am living in Garden Grove, but building in Santa Maria. All I have
here are my wing ribs, my fuselage is at the Santa Maria Airport.
Where are you located?
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall
Lumsden
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:44 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners
My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol
owners in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance
writer who has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine.
I've suggested an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead
with it. I'm also interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers
or fly-ins anywhere in the country in the next six months.
My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N.
Africa and Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques.
That was a time when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing
gear.")
My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan
where a neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans.
He taught himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage
onto a two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a
cultivator seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a
remarkable achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his
Pietenpol for good, but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat
farm landscape in a store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for
the rest of his long life.
The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an
amazing slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents.
I look forward to hearing from you.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.
Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this
year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric
www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
* Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP
www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your generous
support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: road landing |
Oscar,
Here in NJ water landing is a no-no. Think a few places at the shore in the
tidal waters it's legal. We even have Greenwood lake that's half in NJ and
half in NY. You can only taxi on the NJ side, and take off and land on the
NY side permissable
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: road landing
> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm not sure about other states, but I'll bet you a doughnut that if you
> land an airplane on a California highway, they will find a way to tax or
> fine you. After all, you didn't pay road use taxes on the fuel in that
> tank (unless you're running autogas), and you sure didn't pay any excise
> tax on those tires to help pay for the highways. Everything seems to be
> illegal in CA except the things that should be ;o)
>
> I wondered the same thing about operating a floatplane off of public
> waters... lakes, impoundments, even rivers. I guess people do it but
> there must be some prohibition about operating something other than a
> registered watercraft on public waters.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
>
>
>
Message 22
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Hi Dale: What did you and Greg do with with your rain damaged propeller?
Could you repair it after all? Leon S. do not archive
Message 23
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Leon Stefan
I am working on it now. Going to re profile the leading edge. It needed it.
Then will try some leading edge tape. Hope it works.
Dale
> [Original Message]
> From: <lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/1/2006 4:02:01 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet. propeller
>
>
> Hi Dale: What did you and Greg do with with your rain damaged propeller?
> Could you repair it after all? Leon S. do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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Hey Marshall, My Parents Live up in Santa Maria, and my father has a Cessna
150 there. Hanger rent was dirt cheap a few years ago so I got a hanger for
myself. Was planning to move up there a couple years ago but have not yet.
I will give you a call in the next few days!
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall
Lumsden
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners
Hi Dave: I'm in Malibu. Sometime before long I'd like to talk to you about
your involvement with Pietenpols. My phone number is 310-457-7511. Why are
you building in Santa Maria, by the way?
ML
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson <mailto:davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners
Hello Marshall,
I am living in Garden Grove, but building in Santa Maria. All I have here
are my wing ribs, my fuselage is at the Santa Maria Airport.
Where are you located?
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall
Lumsden
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners
My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol owners
in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance writer who
has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine. I've suggested
an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead with it. I'm also
interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers or fly-ins anywhere in
the country in the next six months.
My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa and
Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a time
when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.")
My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where a
neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He taught
himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto a
two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a cultivator
seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a remarkable
achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his Pietenpol for good,
but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat farm landscape in a
store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for the rest of his long
life.
The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing
slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents.
I look forward to hearing from you.
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
the Contribution link below to find out more about
this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
by:
* AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
* The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
* Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com>
* HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
List Contribution Web Site
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: Piet. cables |
Pieters, I wonder what cables you guys are using. 1/8th or 3/32 and do
you use stainless or the regular stuff. I know that there are different nicro
for each. Also which wire design is best like 7 x7 or something different.
Thanks, Ken in cool Iowa with some snow
Message 26
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|
Subject: | Re: Piet. propeller |
Dale
I have a roll of 6" leading edge tape. You are welcome to some.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet. propeller
> <ddjohn@earthlink.net>
>
> Leon Stefan
> I am working on it now. Going to re profile the leading edge. It needed
> it.
> Then will try some leading edge tape. Hope it works.
> Dale
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: <lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)>
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 12/1/2006 4:02:01 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet. propeller
>>
>>
>> Hi Dale: What did you and Greg do with with your rain damaged propeller?
>> Could you repair it after all? Leon S. do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Re: Piet. cables |
Ken
You will find differing opinions on this, as everything. I used 3/32"
galvanized on drag and anti drag in wing. 1/8" x 7/19galvanized on
controll cables, especially ones that have to make turns thru pulleys.
Stainless 1/8" on things that show in obvious places. Most importantly,
1/19x 1/8" on cross brace cables for fixed landing gear. Initially, I
used 7x19 and had a cable failure.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet. cables
Pieters, I wonder what cables you guys are using. 1/8th or 3/32
and do you use stainless or the regular stuff. I know that there are
different nicro for each. Also which wire design is best like 7 x7 or
something different. Thanks, Ken in cool Iowa with some snow
Message 28
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|
Subject: | Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol |
Maybe thats the one... There were some brown tablets that were probably boiled
in water, I was not alowed to ge to close at that age, I remember as a very
little boy probably 5, looking at Grampas shop...
Was bought by the weight, Went shoping with him several times. That old store
still sells some strange old products we now dont know what are for...Hope I
had keept his notes.
My point is that probably most of the modern glues will be more resistant to moisture
and time, that the wood they are bonding together, if not properly protected...
But in any case, the peace of mind of the pilot is first, Go for the better glue
(and wood) you can aford and find...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Dale Johnson <ddjohn@earthlink.net> wrote: Gary
Are you sure it was caseine glue and not hide glue.
Most furniture used hide glue and still do.
Put it in a heat pot and spread it on.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Gower
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: 11/29/2006 3:18:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. resorcinol
Just a short comment,
Lets remember that some of the old airplanes (some still flying) were glued with
pre resorcinol ot T-88 glues, like Caseine glue and few are still flying or
in museums in perfect shape.
I have a few family furniture bonded with Caseine Glue that is in better shape
that the newer with modern glues...
Barnishing and mantainance is very important will prevent any wood around the joint
to fail for moisture, the glue will be perfect but the wood around could
fail... like an old barn roof.
Good inspection every year to all wood, wood joints and ply is important for a
sound (wood) airplane. Dont forget proper installed dain holes and some venting.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours of
boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet!
This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are taverns,
hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol? I'll
settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very
endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about
proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick
curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation use
for a long time.
But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________ _________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
---------------------------------
Message 29
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 30
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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