Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:45 AM - Re: America Tour (Clif Dawson)
2. 05:16 AM - Re: twin piet (FTLovley@aol.com)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: twin piet (HelsperSew@aol.com)
4. 06:59 AM - Re: twin piet (FTLovley@aol.com)
5. 07:03 AM - Re: twin piet (HelsperSew@aol.com)
6. 07:27 AM - Twin Piet (Joseph Czaplicki)
7. 07:47 AM - Re: ohio gathering (shad bell)
8. 07:56 AM - Re: bending Lexan (shad bell)
9. 08:15 AM - Brass radiator (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
10. 08:25 AM - Re: Brass radiator (HelsperSew@aol.com)
11. 08:35 AM - OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!! (DJ Vegh)
12. 08:35 AM - Re: Brass radiator (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
13. 08:36 AM - NW mountain flying (BYD@att.net)
14. 08:56 AM - Re: Brass radiator (FTLovley@aol.com)
15. 08:58 AM - Re: NW mountain flying ()
16. 09:00 AM - NW mountain flying (BYD@att.net)
17. 09:15 AM - Re: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!! (DJ Vegh)
18. 09:16 AM - Re: Twin Piet (Bill Church)
19. 11:47 AM - Re: Brass radiator (Gene Rambo)
20. 12:17 PM - Re: America Tour (dloegering)
21. 12:30 PM - Re: Brass radiator (FTLovley@aol.com)
22. 03:01 PM - Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall (walt evans)
23. 04:18 PM - Pietenpol Twin (Larry Rice)
24. 04:27 PM - Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall (Rcaprd@aol.com)
25. 04:45 PM - A bit of Off Piet Topic humor (Rcaprd@aol.com)
26. 04:48 PM - Re: NW mountain flying (gbowen@ptialaska.net)
27. 08:06 PM - Re: Brass radiator (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
28. 10:06 PM - WAY off topic (Richard R. Ryburn)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: America Tour |
You want this!
http://www.mountainflying.com/bible1.htm
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 8:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: America Tour
That seems a bit extreme. I live and fly in Utah and Colorado and
Idaho. I started my flying lessons as a 15 year old in Broomfield
Colorado at 5000MSL. As you know I fly a 65hp cont powered piet all
summer long, and have made trips to Idaho and even Brodhead. I flew the
I-80 corridor. Density altitudes are over 10K' in the early mornings
near Rock Springs and Rawlins WY. I have fueled up in Rawlins a couple
of times. The runway is uphill, and it is a slow climb out. That is
the hard part. I climbed upto about 10,500' to have a few thousand feet
between me and the ground, and to cut corners going around the highest
peaks. This fall I set a new absolute altitude record for my piet.
12,200' with the assistance of ridge lift. It was actually un-nerving
to me as I flew away from the mountain over the valley which is 4500'.
There was no sensation of motion, just the ground over a mile below as I
looked over the side.
If you haven't done any mountain flying, take a course, and do some
reading up. It can be done safely, but you have to always leave
yourself an out. For me? No box canyons, be careful of lee side winds,
stay out of weather, supplemental O2, beware high density altitudes, add
survival gear, daylight hours only, stay light, be willing to turn
around. Oh, and bring a camera!
Steve E
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-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:10 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour
Greg
I have done a fair amount of mountain flying and other than basic VFR
minimums the safe answer is to make sure it won't possibly box you in
with no way out. More of a threat are the mountain winds which can be
horrible. One place in particular that was brought up on the talk of
west coast trip today was following I-90 west of Billings. That stretch
going to Bozeman can be very dangerous if you get to close to the
Absoraka Range.
To anyone really thinking of that kind of trip, going thru Wyoming,
following I-80 would be much easier. Remember the advice someone on the
list had a year or so ago. "When flying low lever thru Mont and Idaho,
fly along the roads, so they will be able to find your body."
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour
Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to
safely get through the mountains?
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour
Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here!
Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron
together!
Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A
couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an
actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big
Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get
over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization.
Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we
could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight.
Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore,
most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w
ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com"
>www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co
mhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-List
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12/3/2006 4:36 PM
Message 2
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The airplane Ben is talking about is the Pietenpol "Safety Twin" built by Joe
Halsmer. I believe he lived in Illinois or Indiana. It had two 65
Continentals...one direct drive prop, and one belt drive prop. He would hand prop
the
direct drive engine, and then use the belts to start the belt drive engine, I
believe. I think that after Joe passed away, his son converted the airplane
back to single engine and sold it. The number, N-12043, is listed as "Sale
Reported" in Kenosha WI.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
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Hi Forrest,
Are you still interested in making the brass radiators that were talked
about several months ago? If you are, I for one would still be on the list to
buy one. Please advise. Thanks.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 4
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Dan...You are on the list...and I just ordered the cores. After they get
here, I'll get at building the radiators.
Forrest Lovley
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Thanks Forrest,
Let me know when you need some money.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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Hi All
The Twin Piet lives ! But now it sports a single A65. She's hangered at ENW. She is group owned by several members of EAA Chapter 217 in Kenosha, WI. Information about her can be gotten from Tom Lubben at www.lub_sur@sbcglobal.net
Picture of her in present configuration can be seen at EAA chapter 217 web site, www.eaa217.com
Hope this helps. by the way, the Coupe site was mine.
JoeC in cold and white NE Illinois +9 deg and 12 " of the white stuff
Joseph Czaplicki
fishin3@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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Subject: | Re: ohio gathering |
Hello, Where are you located in Orient? Are you located close to Jim and Dondie
Miller's airport, Miller Time? I am just up the road in Centerburg OH, Maybe
I will make a little trip that way when the spring gets here. Are you building
a piet?
Shad
---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: bending Lexan |
Making a form out of aluminum and heating in the kitchen stove works. Just be
prepared to sleep on the couch if you get it too hot, IT STINKS UP THE WHOLE HOUSE!
But when done properly (as Tony Bingalis explains in his books), It produces
a nice tension free windscreen that you don't have to force around the mounts.
Shad
---------------------------------
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Forrest,
Is there any chance of getting on your "radiator list" for this run? If
not, it is OK. I think Dan said he would give me his.
Ron
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Subject: | Re: Brass radiator |
Ron,
NOT! VERY FUNNY!! I have been "on the list" for a long time!
I will be thinking of you when I am installing mine!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 11
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Subject: | OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!! |
I'm desparatley in need of a set of tail leafs for a Tcraft BC12D. New,
used, don't really care as long as they are airworthy.
DJ
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Subject: | Re: Brass radiator |
In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:27:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
HelsperSew@aol.com writes:
Ron,
NOT! VERY FUNNY!! I have been "on the list" for a long time!
I will be thinking of you when I am installing mine!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
That made belly laugh HARD, man. That truly was very funny.
Ron
do not archive
Message 13
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Subject: | NW mountain flying |
Greg C. asks,
Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through
the mountains?
This will bring some flame.
Greg a looong time ago an old timer made the statement that you can fly coast
to coast with out flying higher than 3,500 feet. Although this is technically
correct, it isnt physically possible or at least advisable. He sat me down and
showed me that Stampede Pass here in the Cascades is just at 3,500 feet, and
then went on to Mullen Pass in the Rockies I think and I forget the pass in
the East, but technically it is possible.
Both Dick N. and Steve E. have the key points. Although I prefer the northern
I-90 route, anytime in the mountains watch flying near ridges (wind) and project
your path as to always have a way out imagine doing a 180 in the space ahead
and avoid a New York canyon incident. You wont need oxygen, but you will want
to fly early mornings before temps and winds come up.
Plan ahead, be flexible, and above all please be safe. Its like anything, theres
risk involved, but from that theres reward.
Ben somewhere I have the picture of the stacked Continental Pietenpol you mentioned.
If memory serves, the props were at about 45-degrees to each other instead
of 90 and they were mounted on a common hub of some sort. Also, I have copies
of the IPA newsletter back when it was the National Pietenpol Association
(1977) put out by Janet Green in Brodhead. I still have a flight jacket with
the old rectangular IPA patch but my IPA newsletters stop in 1981. Ill contact
you off list to see if I could fill in the gap. Since youre at Blakesburg
say hi to Chad and your grandpa for me.
Pietenpolingly,
Bill Sayre
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Brass radiator |
Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a
radiator.
Forrest Lovley
20046 Xeon Ave So
Jordan MN 55352
Message 15
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Subject: | NW mountain flying |
If you fly 3500 ft above any surface I guarantee you'll miss it!There's
always a smart ass in the crowd eh!
Do not archive
Message 16
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Subject: | NW mountain flying |
My last post got me wondering so I pulled out a sectional and Stampede Pass is
3800 feet so it must have been Snoqualmie Pass at 3004 feet. I just remember
thinking youd surprise traffic on the freeway if you really flew the route at
the altitude he was suggesting.
Sorry for the confusion.
Pietenpolingly,
Bill Sayre
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!! |
nevermind.... all taken care of.
thanks!!!
DJ
Message 18
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I am having a great deal of difficulty trying to create a mental image
of the twin Pietenpol. I realize that it's Monday, or maybe it's just my
limited mental capacity, but it just ain't working. Here are a couple of
recent posts:
"If memory serves, the props were at about 45-degrees to each other
instead of 90 and they were mounted on a common hub of some sort. "
and
"The twin had counter rotating props if I remember correctly, (but I am
not positive). One engine mounted above the other and a belt driving
the front prop drive unit. It may have had a planitary gear drive for
prop to turn other direction."
Anyway, a few have mentioned that they have pictures of this unique
plane. Has anyone been able to dig out one of these photos? I think in
this case a photo would be worth more than the usual 1000 words. (I
would guess at least 1200).
It appears that the original configuration was built a bit tail heavy
(not likely a problem when you're putting two engines in the nose) but
when converted to a more conventional single engine arrangement, the
result brings to mind an anteater. "My Grandma, what a long nose you
have."
Picture of her in present configuration can be seen at EAA chapter 217
web site, www.eaa217.com
Bill C
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Brass radiator |
Forrest: Gene Rambo here . . I hope you still have me on your list for
a radiator on this run!!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: FTLovley@aol.com<mailto:FTLovley@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brass radiator
Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a
radiator.
Forrest Lovley
20046 Xeon Ave So
Jordan MN 55352
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: America Tour |
Being from Fargo, ND, I typically do not have to deal with mountian flying - actually
the elevation diference from one end of the runway to the other almost
9,000' away is a whopping 2'! That being said, the most memorable flight I have
partaken was a trip flying an Ercoupe from Seattle, WA to Hawley, MN. Followed
the I-90 corridor all the way back and had a huge high pressure bubble for
nearly the entire three day trip. Bozeman pass is the highest point at about
6,500' MSL and passing through at 8,000' there are peaks all around and above
you, but the "valley" at that point is plenty wide. Still had to circle over
two airports to climb out of the valleys following refueling stops though -
and the pictures were worth it! Can't wait to do it in a Piet.
--------
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79113#79113
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Brass radiator |
Gene WHOOOOO....??
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall |
You can use galvanized steel. (very cheap and proper) Regs say .016 or
.018" , not sure, you have to check. Just can't be aluminum.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and
firewall
I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the sheet
metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys
suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested in
the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be the
proper guage of stainless for the firewall?
-Scott Schreiber
Message 23
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It was built by some brothers in Indiana who also did a car/airplane
with an airfoil shaped fuselage (wings folded over the top). I met one
of them once, years ago, I think the other had passed away. I'll see if
I can find some info, I think I have something around.
Larry the micro mong guy
--
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall |
In a message dated 12/3/2006 8:36:42 PM Central Standard Time,
got22b@subarubrat.com writes:
What is the best option for the fittings?
Scott,
I'm not sure I understand your question. I will say that the fittings
should be built AFTER you have the wood portion built, and then do the fittings
to fit the wood. If you build the fittings first, you will likely be doing
some of them over.
However, I had this conversions stored in the bits & bytes of my
computer: (I think Greg Cardinal originally posted it)
Gage to decimal for TUBING
11 ga .120
12 ga N/A
13 ga .095
14 ga .083
16 ga .065
17 ga .058
18 ga .049
20 ga .035
22 ga .028
Gage to decimal for SHEET
11 ga .125
12 ga .100
13 ga .090
14 ga .080
16 ga .063
18 ga .050
20 ga .040
22 ga .032 or .025
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Message 25
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Subject: | A bit of Off Piet Topic humor |
This is a little bit off the 'Pietenpol' topic, and I think it's been around
the internet before, but all you Pro pilots and/or mechanics, will get a kick
out of this:
Qantas Airlines
Just in case you need a laugh:
After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a"gripe sheet,"
which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft.
The mechanics correct the problems, document their repairs on the form,and
then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight. Never
Let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual
maintenance complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots (marked with a
P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers.
By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never,ever, had an
accident.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.
P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.
P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.
P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.
P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.
P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.
P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.
P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what friction locks are for.
P: IFF inoperative in OFF mode.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.
P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.
P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.
P: Aircraft handles funny. (I love this one!)
S: Aircraft warned to: straighten up, fly right, and be serious.
P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.
P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.
And the best one for last..................
P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on
something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget.
Message 26
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Subject: | NW mountain flying |
We went thru this routine about trying to hump a Piete over the rock strewn
Rocky Mts. about two years ago. The lowest passes the interstates pass
thru in the NW is about 8900', ie. I-80 between UT thru WY to Nebraska is
above 7000' most passes and one near Laramie is 8950'. Same goes for lumpy
ground around Butte MT. Good luck with that chore. Heck it's cold enough
at 3000' here in FL this time of year, my hair is still hurtin' from
yesterday's flight.
Gordon Bowen
Original Message:
-----------------
From: BYD@att.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NW mountain flying
My last post got me wondering so I pulled out a sectional and Stampede Pass
is 3800 feet so it must have been Snoqualmie Pass at 3004 feet. I just
remember thinking youd surprise traffic on the freeway if you really flew
the route at the altitude he was suggesting.
Sorry for the confusion.
Pietenpolingly,
Bill Sayre
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http://mail2web.com/ .
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Brass radiator |
In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:58:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
FTLovley@aol.com writes:
Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a
radiator.
Forrest Lovley
20046 Xeon Ave So
Jordan MN 55352
I don't feel worthy, since Dan has been waiting for so long and so
patiently. But, what the heck. I'll get over it.
Ron Eisaman
81 E. New Rd.
Linden, PA 17744
412-894-8707- home
843-333-5185- cell
Thanks so very much, Forrest.
Ron
Message 28
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Forrest -
I need a new Marginal decal.
Ric Ryburn (of the Parsons Ryburns, now in Virginia)
Pietsrneat@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:58:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> FTLovley@aol.com writes:
>
> Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a
> radiator.
> Forrest Lovley
> 20046 Xeon Ave So
> Jordan MN 55352
>
> I don't feel worthy, since Dan has been waiting for so long and so
> patiently. But, what the heck. I'll get over it.
> Ron Eisaman
> 81 E. New Rd.
> Linden, PA 17744
> 412-894-8707- home
> 843-333-5185- cell
> Thanks so very much, Forrest.
> Ron
>
> *
>
>
> *
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