Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 12/04/06


Total Messages Posted: 28



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:45 AM - Re: America Tour (Clif Dawson)
     2. 05:16 AM - Re: twin piet (FTLovley@aol.com)
     3. 06:20 AM - Re: twin piet (HelsperSew@aol.com)
     4. 06:59 AM - Re: twin piet (FTLovley@aol.com)
     5. 07:03 AM - Re: twin piet (HelsperSew@aol.com)
     6. 07:27 AM - Twin Piet (Joseph Czaplicki)
     7. 07:47 AM - Re: ohio gathering (shad bell)
     8. 07:56 AM - Re: bending Lexan (shad bell)
     9. 08:15 AM - Brass radiator (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
    10. 08:25 AM - Re: Brass radiator (HelsperSew@aol.com)
    11. 08:35 AM - OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!! (DJ Vegh)
    12. 08:35 AM - Re: Brass radiator (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
    13. 08:36 AM - NW mountain flying (BYD@att.net)
    14. 08:56 AM - Re: Brass radiator (FTLovley@aol.com)
    15. 08:58 AM - Re: NW mountain flying ()
    16. 09:00 AM - NW mountain flying (BYD@att.net)
    17. 09:15 AM - Re: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!! (DJ Vegh)
    18. 09:16 AM - Re: Twin Piet (Bill Church)
    19. 11:47 AM - Re: Brass radiator (Gene Rambo)
    20. 12:17 PM - Re: America Tour (dloegering)
    21. 12:30 PM - Re: Brass radiator (FTLovley@aol.com)
    22. 03:01 PM - Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall (walt evans)
    23. 04:18 PM - Pietenpol Twin (Larry Rice)
    24. 04:27 PM - Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    25. 04:45 PM - A bit of Off Piet Topic humor (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    26. 04:48 PM - Re: NW mountain flying (gbowen@ptialaska.net)
    27. 08:06 PM - Re: Brass radiator (Pietsrneat@aol.com)
    28. 10:06 PM - WAY off topic (Richard R. Ryburn)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:45:39 AM PST US
    From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: America Tour
    You want this! http://www.mountainflying.com/bible1.htm Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: America Tour That seems a bit extreme. I live and fly in Utah and Colorado and Idaho. I started my flying lessons as a 15 year old in Broomfield Colorado at 5000MSL. As you know I fly a 65hp cont powered piet all summer long, and have made trips to Idaho and even Brodhead. I flew the I-80 corridor. Density altitudes are over 10K' in the early mornings near Rock Springs and Rawlins WY. I have fueled up in Rawlins a couple of times. The runway is uphill, and it is a slow climb out. That is the hard part. I climbed upto about 10,500' to have a few thousand feet between me and the ground, and to cut corners going around the highest peaks. This fall I set a new absolute altitude record for my piet. 12,200' with the assistance of ridge lift. It was actually un-nerving to me as I flew away from the mountain over the valley which is 4500'. There was no sensation of motion, just the ground over a mile below as I looked over the side. If you haven't done any mountain flying, take a course, and do some reading up. It can be done safely, but you have to always leave yourself an out. For me? No box canyons, be careful of lee side winds, stay out of weather, supplemental O2, beware high density altitudes, add survival gear, daylight hours only, stay light, be willing to turn around. Oh, and bring a camera! Steve E ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:10 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Greg I have done a fair amount of mountain flying and other than basic VFR minimums the safe answer is to make sure it won't possibly box you in with no way out. More of a threat are the mountain winds which can be horrible. One place in particular that was brought up on the talk of west coast trip today was following I-90 west of Billings. That stretch going to Bozeman can be very dangerous if you get to close to the Absoraka Range. To anyone really thinking of that kind of trip, going thru Wyoming, following I-80 would be much easier. Remember the advice someone on the list had a year or so ago. "When flying low lever thru Mont and Idaho, fly along the roads, so they will be able to find your body." Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization. Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight. Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore, most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long. Chuck G. NX770CG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com" >www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co mhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet enpol-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/3/2006 4:36 PM


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:16:44 AM PST US
    From: FTLovley@aol.com
    Subject: Re: twin piet
    The airplane Ben is talking about is the Pietenpol "Safety Twin" built by Joe Halsmer. I believe he lived in Illinois or Indiana. It had two 65 Continentals...one direct drive prop, and one belt drive prop. He would hand prop the direct drive engine, and then use the belts to start the belt drive engine, I believe. I think that after Joe passed away, his son converted the airplane back to single engine and sold it. The number, N-12043, is listed as "Sale Reported" in Kenosha WI. Forrest Lovley Jordan MN


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:20:14 AM PST US
    From: HelsperSew@aol.com
    Subject: Re: twin piet
    Hi Forrest, Are you still interested in making the brass radiators that were talked about several months ago? If you are, I for one would still be on the list to buy one. Please advise. Thanks. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:59:48 AM PST US
    From: FTLovley@aol.com
    Subject: Re: twin piet
    Dan...You are on the list...and I just ordered the cores. After they get here, I'll get at building the radiators. Forrest Lovley


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:03:57 AM PST US
    From: HelsperSew@aol.com
    Subject: Re: twin piet
    Thanks Forrest, Let me know when you need some money. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:27:37 AM PST US
    From: "Joseph Czaplicki" <fishin3@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Twin Piet
    Hi All The Twin Piet lives ! But now it sports a single A65. She's hangered at ENW. She is group owned by several members of EAA Chapter 217 in Kenosha, WI. Information about her can be gotten from Tom Lubben at www.lub_sur@sbcglobal.net Picture of her in present configuration can be seen at EAA chapter 217 web site, www.eaa217.com Hope this helps. by the way, the Coupe site was mine. JoeC in cold and white NE Illinois +9 deg and 12 " of the white stuff Joseph Czaplicki fishin3@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You.


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:47:14 AM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: ohio gathering
    Hello, Where are you located in Orient? Are you located close to Jim and Dondie Miller's airport, Miller Time? I am just up the road in Centerburg OH, Maybe I will make a little trip that way when the spring gets here. Are you building a piet? Shad --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:56:58 AM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: bending Lexan
    Making a form out of aluminum and heating in the kitchen stove works. Just be prepared to sleep on the couch if you get it too hot, IT STINKS UP THE WHOLE HOUSE! But when done properly (as Tony Bingalis explains in his books), It produces a nice tension free windscreen that you don't have to force around the mounts. Shad ---------------------------------


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:15:29 AM PST US
    From: Pietsrneat@aol.com
    Subject: Brass radiator
    Forrest, Is there any chance of getting on your "radiator list" for this run? If not, it is OK. I think Dan said he would give me his. Ron


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:25:24 AM PST US
    From: HelsperSew@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Brass radiator
    Ron, NOT! VERY FUNNY!! I have been "on the list" for a long time! I will be thinking of you when I am installing mine!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:35:03 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <dj@veghdesign.com>
    Subject: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!!
    I'm desparatley in need of a set of tail leafs for a Tcraft BC12D. New, used, don't really care as long as they are airworthy. DJ


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:35:03 AM PST US
    From: Pietsrneat@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Brass radiator
    In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:27:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, HelsperSew@aol.com writes: Ron, NOT! VERY FUNNY!! I have been "on the list" for a long time! I will be thinking of you when I am installing mine!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. That made belly laugh HARD, man. That truly was very funny. Ron do not archive


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:36:03 AM PST US
    From: BYD@att.net
    Subject: NW mountain flying
    Greg C. asks, Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? This will bring some flame. Greg a looong time ago an old timer made the statement that you can fly coast to coast with out flying higher than 3,500 feet. Although this is technically correct, it isnt physically possible or at least advisable. He sat me down and showed me that Stampede Pass here in the Cascades is just at 3,500 feet, and then went on to Mullen Pass in the Rockies I think and I forget the pass in the East, but technically it is possible. Both Dick N. and Steve E. have the key points. Although I prefer the northern I-90 route, anytime in the mountains watch flying near ridges (wind) and project your path as to always have a way out imagine doing a 180 in the space ahead and avoid a New York canyon incident. You wont need oxygen, but you will want to fly early mornings before temps and winds come up. Plan ahead, be flexible, and above all please be safe. Its like anything, theres risk involved, but from that theres reward. Ben somewhere I have the picture of the stacked Continental Pietenpol you mentioned. If memory serves, the props were at about 45-degrees to each other instead of 90 and they were mounted on a common hub of some sort. Also, I have copies of the IPA newsletter back when it was the National Pietenpol Association (1977) put out by Janet Green in Brodhead. I still have a flight jacket with the old rectangular IPA patch but my IPA newsletters stop in 1981. Ill contact you off list to see if I could fill in the gap. Since youre at Blakesburg say hi to Chad and your grandpa for me. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:56:41 AM PST US
    From: FTLovley@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Brass radiator
    Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a radiator. Forrest Lovley 20046 Xeon Ave So Jordan MN 55352


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:58:26 AM PST US
    Subject: NW mountain flying
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    If you fly 3500 ft above any surface I guarantee you'll miss it!There's always a smart ass in the crowd eh! Do not archive


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:00:02 AM PST US
    From: BYD@att.net
    Subject: NW mountain flying
    My last post got me wondering so I pulled out a sectional and Stampede Pass is 3800 feet so it must have been Snoqualmie Pass at 3004 feet. I just remember thinking youd surprise traffic on the freeway if you really flew the route at the altitude he was suggesting. Sorry for the confusion. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:15:03 AM PST US
    From: "DJ Vegh" <dj@veghdesign.com>
    Subject: Re: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!!
    nevermind.... all taken care of. thanks!!! DJ


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:16:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Twin Piet
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    I am having a great deal of difficulty trying to create a mental image of the twin Pietenpol. I realize that it's Monday, or maybe it's just my limited mental capacity, but it just ain't working. Here are a couple of recent posts: "If memory serves, the props were at about 45-degrees to each other instead of 90 and they were mounted on a common hub of some sort. " and "The twin had counter rotating props if I remember correctly, (but I am not positive). One engine mounted above the other and a belt driving the front prop drive unit. It may have had a planitary gear drive for prop to turn other direction." Anyway, a few have mentioned that they have pictures of this unique plane. Has anyone been able to dig out one of these photos? I think in this case a photo would be worth more than the usual 1000 words. (I would guess at least 1200). It appears that the original configuration was built a bit tail heavy (not likely a problem when you're putting two engines in the nose) but when converted to a more conventional single engine arrangement, the result brings to mind an anteater. "My Grandma, what a long nose you have." Picture of her in present configuration can be seen at EAA chapter 217 web site, www.eaa217.com Bill C


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:47:28 AM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Brass radiator
    Forrest: Gene Rambo here . . I hope you still have me on your list for a radiator on this run!! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: FTLovley@aol.com<mailto:FTLovley@aol.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brass radiator Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a radiator. Forrest Lovley 20046 Xeon Ave So Jordan MN 55352 www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>


    Message 20


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    Time: 12:17:03 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: America Tour
    From: "dloegering" <danl@odayequipment.com>
    Being from Fargo, ND, I typically do not have to deal with mountian flying - actually the elevation diference from one end of the runway to the other almost 9,000' away is a whopping 2'! That being said, the most memorable flight I have partaken was a trip flying an Ercoupe from Seattle, WA to Hawley, MN. Followed the I-90 corridor all the way back and had a huge high pressure bubble for nearly the entire three day trip. Bozeman pass is the highest point at about 6,500' MSL and passing through at 8,000' there are peaks all around and above you, but the "valley" at that point is plenty wide. Still had to circle over two airports to climb out of the valleys following refueling stops though - and the pictures were worth it! Can't wait to do it in a Piet. -------- Dan Loegering Fargo, ND Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79113#79113


    Message 21


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    Time: 12:30:35 PM PST US
    From: FTLovley@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Brass radiator
    Gene WHOOOOO....??


    Message 22


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    Time: 03:01:28 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
    You can use galvanized steel. (very cheap and proper) Regs say .016 or .018" , not sure, you have to check. Just can't be aluminum. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the sheet metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested in the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be the proper guage of stainless for the firewall? -Scott Schreiber


    Message 23


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    Time: 04:18:13 PM PST US
    From: Larry Rice <rice@iapdatacom.net>
    Subject: Pietenpol Twin
    It was built by some brothers in Indiana who also did a car/airplane with an airfoil shaped fuselage (wings folded over the top). I met one of them once, years ago, I think the other had passed away. I'll see if I can find some info, I think I have something around. Larry the micro mong guy --


    Message 24


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    Time: 04:27:22 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
    In a message dated 12/3/2006 8:36:42 PM Central Standard Time, got22b@subarubrat.com writes: What is the best option for the fittings? Scott, I'm not sure I understand your question. I will say that the fittings should be built AFTER you have the wood portion built, and then do the fittings to fit the wood. If you build the fittings first, you will likely be doing some of them over. However, I had this conversions stored in the bits & bytes of my computer: (I think Greg Cardinal originally posted it) Gage to decimal for TUBING 11 ga .120 12 ga N/A 13 ga .095 14 ga .083 16 ga .065 17 ga .058 18 ga .049 20 ga .035 22 ga .028 Gage to decimal for SHEET 11 ga .125 12 ga .100 13 ga .090 14 ga .080 16 ga .063 18 ga .050 20 ga .040 22 ga .032 or .025 Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 25


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    Time: 04:45:04 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: A bit of Off Piet Topic humor
    This is a little bit off the 'Pietenpol' topic, and I think it's been around the internet before, but all you Pro pilots and/or mechanics, will get a kick out of this: Qantas Airlines Just in case you need a laugh: After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a"gripe sheet," which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics correct the problems, document their repairs on the form,and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight. Never Let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots (marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers. By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never,ever, had an accident. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement. S: Almost replaced left inside main tire. P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough. S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft. P: Something loose in cockpit. S: Something tightened in cockpit. P: Dead bugs on windshield. S: Live bugs on back-order. P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent. S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground. P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear. S: Evidence removed. P: DME volume unbelievably loud. S: DME volume set to more believable level. P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick. S: That's what friction locks are for. P: IFF inoperative in OFF mode. S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode. P: Suspected crack in windshield. S: Suspect you're right. P: Number 3 engine missing. S: Engine found on right wing after brief search. P: Aircraft handles funny. (I love this one!) S: Aircraft warned to: straighten up, fly right, and be serious. P: Target radar hums. S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics. P: Mouse in cockpit. S: Cat installed. And the best one for last.................. P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer. S: Took hammer away from midget.


    Message 26


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    Time: 04:48:56 PM PST US
    From: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" <gbowen@ptialaska.net>
    Subject: NW mountain flying
    We went thru this routine about trying to hump a Piete over the rock strewn Rocky Mts. about two years ago. The lowest passes the interstates pass thru in the NW is about 8900', ie. I-80 between UT thru WY to Nebraska is above 7000' most passes and one near Laramie is 8950'. Same goes for lumpy ground around Butte MT. Good luck with that chore. Heck it's cold enough at 3000' here in FL this time of year, my hair is still hurtin' from yesterday's flight. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: BYD@att.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: NW mountain flying My last post got me wondering so I pulled out a sectional and Stampede Pass is 3800 feet so it must have been Snoqualmie Pass at 3004 feet. I just remember thinking youd surprise traffic on the freeway if you really flew the route at the altitude he was suggesting. Sorry for the confusion. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .


    Message 27


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    Time: 08:06:24 PM PST US
    From: Pietsrneat@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Brass radiator
    In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:58:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, FTLovley@aol.com writes: Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a radiator. Forrest Lovley 20046 Xeon Ave So Jordan MN 55352 I don't feel worthy, since Dan has been waiting for so long and so patiently. But, what the heck. I'll get over it. Ron Eisaman 81 E. New Rd. Linden, PA 17744 412-894-8707- home 843-333-5185- cell Thanks so very much, Forrest. Ron


    Message 28


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    Time: 10:06:43 PM PST US
    From: "Richard R. Ryburn" <ric@srclink.net>
    Subject: WAY off topic
    Forrest - I need a new Marginal decal. Ric Ryburn (of the Parsons Ryburns, now in Virginia) Pietsrneat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:58:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > FTLovley@aol.com writes: > > Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a > radiator. > Forrest Lovley > 20046 Xeon Ave So > Jordan MN 55352 > > I don't feel worthy, since Dan has been waiting for so long and so > patiently. But, what the heck. I'll get over it. > Ron Eisaman > 81 E. New Rd. > Linden, PA 17744 > 412-894-8707- home > 843-333-5185- cell > Thanks so very much, Forrest. > Ron > > * > > > *




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