---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/08/06: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Re: T-88 (Clif Dawson) 2. 12:24 AM - Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 3. 12:29 AM - CG-whats the sweet spot (JR) 4. 04:28 AM - Re: T-88 () 5. 04:33 AM - Re: T-88 () 6. 05:43 AM - Re: bungee cord (Phillips, Jack) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: CG-whats the sweet spot (gbowen@ptialaska.net) 8. 06:38 AM - Re: CG-whats the sweet spot (Jeff Boatright) 9. 06:45 AM - Re: CG-whats the sweet spot (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com) 10. 06:47 AM - Re: CG-whats the sweet spot (Phillips, Jack) 11. 07:07 AM - Re: CG-whats the sweet spot (Phillips, Jack) 12. 11:47 AM - Jack- you think you're old? (off topic) (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 12:39 PM - Jack- you think you're old? II (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 12:58 PM - Re: Jack- you think you're old? II (Phillips, Jack) 15. 01:07 PM - t-38 (shad bell) 16. 01:09 PM - T-38 Talon (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 17. 01:16 PM - Re varnish (Graham and Robyn) 18. 01:16 PM - fl ying from Oshkosh to Brodhead (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 19. 01:19 PM - Re: T-38 Talon (Phillips, Jack) 20. 02:37 PM - T88 (Jeff Hill) 21. 02:46 PM - Re: T-38 Talon (Jeff Boatright) 22. 08:29 PM - Re: Jack- you think you're old? II (James Dallas) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:49 AM PST US From: Clif Dawson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Yes, I would second that. Don't use a microwave. It heats the material internaly as opposed to an oven or pot of water. It is also heating rapidly and if the heated material cannot circulate itself fast enough due to high viscosity then a hotspot can develop and rapidly overheat and creat a gas bubble that can explode the still liquid material around it outwards. If you're lucky this will happen BEFORE you reach in to take the container out! Even water can be made to do this. 999 times out of a thousand that cup of tea you are reheating will be fine but there have been times when that water has been superheated and still liquid only to rapidly bubble into steam and boiling water all over the hand just reaching in to pick the cup up. I can attest that this is NOT funny. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 About the heating of t-88..I remember reading that somewhere in some literature that came with the glue, on the box or somewhere, but it WAS from the manufacturer. The newest batch I ordered didn't have that info with it, or I droped the pamphlet somewhere. But it stated "May crystalize below 40deg F. .......It is harmless and can be heated in a pot of hot water to get rid of the haziness......" Any way it worked good for me, I just used hot tap water, in a 2 Qt butter tub and let it sit in there for 20 min or so. I don't claim to be an expert, but, I would NOT use a microwave oven for this task. I have seen guys at work (for the airlines) put pro-seal (a 2 part sealant) in the microwave to heat it for a faster cure time, and some times it will bake the sealant hard as a rock in 10 seconds, with out even mixing in the catalyst. And the real bad thing is if and when the pressure builds up inside the bottles of glue they will explode all over the inside of your microwave (unless you take the lid off), rendering it useless for cooking food, as epoxy is very poisionous, hard to clean thuroughly ,and does't taste very good on popcorn. Just remember to bring that glue in side for the winter. My 1 1/2 cents Shad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/7/2006 1:31 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:53 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors Dear Listers, I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser only underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. The nice List gifts will be available on the site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your great gift. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Paul, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2006 List of Contributors current as of 12/7/06! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2006.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Kitlog Pro serial numbers should go out via email this weekend. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:47 AM PST US From: "JR" Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot Is there any type of consensus that the Pietenpol fly's better with the CG closer to the 15"mark or 20"mark behind the leading edge of the wing? I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its published limit. John Rocca Professional Aerial Photographer AngelWingsAviation.com Cell: 412-445-5995 Office: 412-835-5292 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietenpol-List Digest Server Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/07/06 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 06-12-07&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2006-12-07&Archive=Pietenpol =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/07/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:48 AM - Re: Wood varnish (Peter W Johnson) 2. 02:32 AM - Re: T-88 and urathane (HelsperSew@aol.com) 3. 03:09 AM - Re: T-88 and urathane (Jack T. Textor) 4. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: corvair wooden props (Hans Vander Voort) 5. 06:13 AM - Re: Wood varnish (Bill Church) 6. 07:15 AM - T-88 (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: T-88 () 8. 11:10 AM - Re: Wood varnish () 9. 12:09 PM - T-88 (Oscar Zuniga) 10. 01:31 PM - Re: T-88 (Graham Hansen) 11. 04:46 PM - Re: T-88 (shad bell) 12. 05:04 PM - (dslane@logical.net) 13. 05:08 PM - bungee cord (dslane@logical.net) 14. 07:18 PM - Re: bungee cord (Dick Navratil) 15. 10:34 PM - Weight and Balance (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:48 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Graham, You need something that will work with the covering system. I used poly fibre to cover so I used Wattyl Estapol for the varnish. Seems to be MEK resistant. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 5:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt "http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com "http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List 4:39 PM -- 4:39 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:20 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 and urathane Jeff, This happened to me also. Just heat it up gently with a heat gun and it goes back to normal. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 and urathane From: "Jack T. Textor" Happens to me also, I heat in a pan of warm water. Jack Textor www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re: corvair wooden props From: Hans Vander Voort Ted, Long fuse, full WW conversion but with Zenith carburetor Tennessee prop 64 x 34 Hans NX 15KV ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish From: "Bill Church" No, I'm pretty sure you can buy it one can at a time... Sorry, I couldn't resist. once again, DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:21 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 I put it in the microwave and that works great to "un-crystallize", with the caution that you don't want to overheat it. If you do, the liquid is so runny that it becomes difficult to meter it out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 From: Just a question;wouldn't the microwave cause the glue to change it's molecular properties and the glue change in such a way that it wouldn't have the same power.Just wondering here. Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: December 7, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 I put it in the microwave and that works great to "un-crystallize", with the caution that you don't want to overheat it. If you do, the liquid is so runny that it becomes difficult to meter it out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish From: Two pack;wasn't he a (wrapper)rapper?(;-ooooooooH Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: December 7, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish No, I'm pretty sure you can buy it one can at a time... Sorry, I couldn't resist. once again, DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:01 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Harvey; as far as I know, there is no chemical change happening when I microwave the epoxy component that has crystallized. The microwave energy only acts to heat up the material just like it does to a soy burger when you pop it in and beep it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:55 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Group, It doesn't seem to affect the T-88 resin (the white stuff) when it is heated to return it to a liquid state. I have some T-88 I bought back in the 1980's, and I have re-heated the resin perhaps ten times since then. For some time I have used it for non-aircraft applications and would not hesitate to use it on aircraft because it has always proved to be reliable when joining both hard and soft woods used in other projects. Granulation of the resin component is very similar to what can happen to honey after a time, and it can be liquified in exactly the same way: by heating the container. (I'd be a bit hesitant about using the microwave for this and have always placed the container in a pot of hot water.) Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:49 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 About the heating of t-88..I remember reading that somewhere in some literature that came with the glue, on the box or somewhere, but it WAS from the manufacturer. The newest batch I ordered didn't have that info with it, or I droped the pamphlet somewhere. But it stated "May crystalize below 40deg F. .......It is harmless and can be heated in a pot of hot water to get rid of the haziness......" Any way it worked good for me, I just used hot tap water, in a 2 Qt butter tub and let it sit in there for 20 min or so. I don't claim to be an expert, but, I would NOT use a microwave oven for this task. I have seen guys at work (for the airlines) put pro-seal (a 2 part sealant) in the microwave to heat it for a faster cure time, and some times it will bake the sealant hard as a rock in 10 seconds, with out even mixing in the catalyst. And the real bad thing is if and when the pressure builds up inside the bottles of glue they will explode all over the inside of your microwave (unless you take the lid off), rendering it useless for cooking food, as epoxy is very poisionous, hard to clean thuroughly ,and does't taste very good on popcorn. Just remember to bring that glue in side for the winter. My 1 1/2 cents Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:49 PM PST US From: dslane@logical.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:50 PM PST US From: dslane@logical.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord Hi, I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don Lane ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:14 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord Don Order 25 ft of 1/2" bungee. That will give you more than enough for both sides. You will need 4 wraps and you will have to play with it to give the right tension. Don't cut off the excess till you are really sure it's on for the last time. Having extra cord will save the back of the person doing the pulling. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord > > Hi, > I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the > original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord > and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I > also would like information about weight and balance limits on the > airplane. > Don Lane > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:53 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance In a message dated 12/7/2006 7:10:24 PM Central Standard Time, dslane@logical.net writes: I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don, You probably already realize that weight and balance is a term relative to the where the weight balances within the wing chord. Bernard Pietenpol said it should be between 1/4 and 1/3 of the wing chord. The chord is 60", therefore, the limits are between 15" and 20" behind the leading edge of the wing. I have all the loading configurations for my airplane listed on at the bottom of this page of my web site: http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 From: I was referring to when heated in the microwave.I know you can reheat it but doesn't the microwave change the molecular properties?I'm no scientist but I am an electronics technologist and I have a working knowledge of how the microwave functions.It isn't very different to how a radar station works.Magnitron,klystron mode etc.,very high freq.,so high that it won't run inside a wire.It uses a wave guide or in long wave it can use a cable.Been a long time since I actually worked on one but the microwave is just a miniature model of the radar transmitters.The thing I remember most was DON'T TOUCH THE KIPP RELAY or you won't live to tell about it.The microwave cooks from the inside out,not the outside in and it's very difficult to tell what's going on until it's too late.It also cooks in a pattern.That's why the old ones never cooked properly till they put in the rotating dish that gives more of an even overall spread of the microwaves.I find most food cooked in it doesn't taste right(thus the molecular change I'm reffering to).With most things it will remove the water very quickly and leave you with a dried up piece of whatever.Not very appetizing.Who knows what it's doing to the glue? -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Sent: December 7, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Group, It doesn't seem to affect the T-88 resin (the white stuff) when it is heated to return it to a liquid state. I have some T-88 I bought back in the 1980's, and I have re-heated the resin perhaps ten times since then. For some time I have used it for non-aircraft applications and would not hesitate to use it on aircraft because it has always proved to be reliable when joining both hard and soft woods used in other projects. Granulation of the resin component is very similar to what can happen to honey after a time, and it can be liquified in exactly the same way: by heating the container. (I'd be a bit hesitant about using the microwave for this and have always placed the container in a pot of hot water.) Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 From: It might be interesting to run a test of the glue function before and after microwaving it.I don't have any or I would try it.Stress factors etc.It may not appear to have made any change.Like I said in a previous letter,I'm no scientist but I would be interested in seeing the data on this.In the mean time don't fly through any radar waves (;o HAHAHAHA! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: December 7, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Harvey; as far as I know, there is no chemical change happening when I microwave the epoxy component that has crystallized. The microwave energy only acts to heat up the material just like it does to a soy burger when you pop it in and beep it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 060 1&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord From: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Don, Where in NC are you? My Pietenpol is based at Cox Field, in Apex NC, just southwest of Raleigh (about 6 miles south of RDU airport) Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dslane@logical.net Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord Hi, I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don Lane _- _________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:44 AM PST US From: "gbowen@ptialaska.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot John, It's dangerous to hang out at the aft cg envelope limit of any airfoil. A tail heavy flat stall spin is not recoverable, unless you crawl out of the back seat into the front during the spin, good luck with that. Especially during early trials of a new experimental, you should be near the front CG, that way as you burn off fuel you move back in CG but never come close to the aft CG. Heck this is a low and slow plane, it's designed to go stable and pokey over the scenery for the pure fun of flying. Any thing over 70 mph, your hair even hurts after a 1 hr flight, so slow down and enjoy. Gordon Original Message: ----------------- From: JR rocca@adelphia.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot Is there any type of consensus that the Pietenpol fly's better with the CG closer to the 15"mark or 20"mark behind the leading edge of the wing? I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its published limit. John Rocca Professional Aerial Photographer AngelWingsAviation.com Cell: 412-445-5995 Office: 412-835-5292 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietenpol-List Digest Server Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/07/06 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 06-12-07&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2006-12-07&Archive=Pietenpol =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/07/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:48 AM - Re: Wood varnish (Peter W Johnson) 2. 02:32 AM - Re: T-88 and urathane (HelsperSew@aol.com) 3. 03:09 AM - Re: T-88 and urathane (Jack T. Textor) 4. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: corvair wooden props (Hans Vander Voort) 5. 06:13 AM - Re: Wood varnish (Bill Church) 6. 07:15 AM - T-88 (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: T-88 () 8. 11:10 AM - Re: Wood varnish () 9. 12:09 PM - T-88 (Oscar Zuniga) 10. 01:31 PM - Re: T-88 (Graham Hansen) 11. 04:46 PM - Re: T-88 (shad bell) 12. 05:04 PM - (dslane@logical.net) 13. 05:08 PM - bungee cord (dslane@logical.net) 14. 07:18 PM - Re: bungee cord (Dick Navratil) 15. 10:34 PM - Weight and Balance (Rcaprd@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:48 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Graham, You need something that will work with the covering system. I used poly fibre to cover so I used Wattyl Estapol for the varnish. Seems to be MEK resistant. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 5:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt "http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com "http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List 4:39 PM -- 4:39 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:20 AM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 and urathane Jeff, This happened to me also. Just heat it up gently with a heat gun and it goes back to normal. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 and urathane From: "Jack T. Textor" Happens to me also, I heat in a pan of warm water. Jack Textor www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re: corvair wooden props From: Hans Vander Voort Ted, Long fuse, full WW conversion but with Zenith carburetor Tennessee prop 64 x 34 Hans NX 15KV ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:52 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish From: "Bill Church" No, I'm pretty sure you can buy it one can at a time... Sorry, I couldn't resist. once again, DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:21 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 I put it in the microwave and that works great to "un-crystallize", with the caution that you don't want to overheat it. If you do, the liquid is so runny that it becomes difficult to meter it out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 From: Just a question;wouldn't the microwave cause the glue to change it's molecular properties and the glue change in such a way that it wouldn't have the same power.Just wondering here. Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: December 7, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 I put it in the microwave and that works great to "un-crystallize", with the caution that you don't want to overheat it. If you do, the liquid is so runny that it becomes difficult to meter it out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish From: Two pack;wasn't he a (wrapper)rapper?(;-ooooooooH Do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: December 7, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish No, I'm pretty sure you can buy it one can at a time... Sorry, I couldn't resist. once again, DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:01 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Harvey; as far as I know, there is no chemical change happening when I microwave the epoxy component that has crystallized. The microwave energy only acts to heat up the material just like it does to a soy burger when you pop it in and beep it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:55 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Group, It doesn't seem to affect the T-88 resin (the white stuff) when it is heated to return it to a liquid state. I have some T-88 I bought back in the 1980's, and I have re-heated the resin perhaps ten times since then. For some time I have used it for non-aircraft applications and would not hesitate to use it on aircraft because it has always proved to be reliable when joining both hard and soft woods used in other projects. Granulation of the resin component is very similar to what can happen to honey after a time, and it can be liquified in exactly the same way: by heating the container. (I'd be a bit hesitant about using the microwave for this and have always placed the container in a pot of hot water.) Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:49 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 About the heating of t-88..I remember reading that somewhere in some literature that came with the glue, on the box or somewhere, but it WAS from the manufacturer. The newest batch I ordered didn't have that info with it, or I droped the pamphlet somewhere. But it stated "May crystalize below 40deg F. .......It is harmless and can be heated in a pot of hot water to get rid of the haziness......" Any way it worked good for me, I just used hot tap water, in a 2 Qt butter tub and let it sit in there for 20 min or so. I don't claim to be an expert, but, I would NOT use a microwave oven for this task. I have seen guys at work (for the airlines) put pro-seal (a 2 part sealant) in the microwave to heat it for a faster cure time, and some times it will bake the sealant hard as a rock in 10 seconds, with out even mixing in the catalyst. And the real bad thing is if and when the pressure builds up inside the bottles of glue they will explode all over the inside of your microwave (unless you take the lid off), rendering it useless for cooking food, as epoxy is very poisionous, hard to clean thuroughly ,and does't taste very good on popcorn. Just remember to bring that glue in side for the winter. My 1 1/2 cents Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:49 PM PST US From: dslane@logical.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:50 PM PST US From: dslane@logical.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord Hi, I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don Lane ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:14 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord Don Order 25 ft of 1/2" bungee. That will give you more than enough for both sides. You will need 4 wraps and you will have to play with it to give the right tension. Don't cut off the excess till you are really sure it's on for the last time. Having extra cord will save the back of the person doing the pulling. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord > > Hi, > I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the > original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord > and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I > also would like information about weight and balance limits on the > airplane. > Don Lane > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:53 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight and Balance In a message dated 12/7/2006 7:10:24 PM Central Standard Time, dslane@logical.net writes: I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don, You probably already realize that weight and balance is a term relative to the where the weight balances within the wing chord. Bernard Pietenpol said it should be between 1/4 and 1/3 of the wing chord. The chord is 60", therefore, the limits are between 15" and 20" behind the leading edge of the wing. I have all the loading configurations for my airplane listed on at the bottom of this page of my web site: http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html Chuck G. NX770CG -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:54 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot There was a nice article on this in the most recent BPA Newlsetter, but no mention of a sweet spot, only how sour things get when you're outside the limits. At 3:29 AM -0500 12/8/06, JR wrote: > >Is there any type of consensus that the Pietenpol fly's better with the CG >closer to the 15"mark or 20"mark behind the leading edge of the wing? >I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its >published limit. > >John Rocca >Professional Aerial Photographer >AngelWingsAviation.com >Cell: 412-445-5995 >Office: 412-835-5292 -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:40 AM PST US From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jboatri@emory.edu writes: I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its >published limit. I remember watching a King(?) video saying that flying with CG at aft limit could make your plane cruise faster and more economically. Something to the effect that it requires less elevator to control pitch..thereby reducing drag....just DON'T GO TOO FAR AFT!!!! Boyce ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:25 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot From: "Phillips, Jack" In mine, I generally fly solo with the CG about 1/2" to 1" ahead of the aft limit (I'm too fat). It's hard to say what the "sweet spot" is, because the only way to easily change the CG is to add weight up front in the baggage compartment or the front seat. Generally, the effects of more weight greatly overshadow the effects of a CG shift. I do notice that I have to reset the trim when carrying a load up front, but once re-trimmed, it flies about the same. I'd say the sweet spot covers the entire CG range, because the elevators (flippers) are extremely powerful and effective. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot There was a nice article on this in the most recent BPA Newlsetter, but no mention of a sweet spot, only how sour things get when you're outside the limits. At 3:29 AM -0500 12/8/06, JR wrote: > >Is there any type of consensus that the Pietenpol fly's better with the >CG closer to the 15"mark or 20"mark behind the leading edge of the >wing? I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft >of its published limit. > >John Rocca >Professional Aerial Photographer >AngelWingsAviation.com >Cell: 412-445-5995 >Office: 412-835-5292 -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu _________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot From: "Phillips, Jack" This is true. When I was a young engineer working on the F-16 program (scary to think that a plane I worked on in the mid 1970's is still a front line fighter) I learned the F-16 is designed with negative static stability. If the flight control computer were to fail, the plane would tumble end-over-end. This was done primarily to enhance maneuverability, but also to improve speed and fuel economy by eliminating "trim" drag. Most Pietenpols tend to fly with the trailing edge of the elevator down a bit, indicating that the horizontal tail is actually providing some lift, rather than the downforce required on most modern airplanes. I believe this has to do with the pitching moment of the Pietenpol airfoil. I can say with certainty that in my RV-4, I can really tell when I'm getting close to an aft CG situation. The plane becomes very "twitchy" in pitch. When my wife and I go on a trip, I've become very careful to limit her to a total of 35 lbs of baggage. Any more than that and the plane just gets too squirrely, particularly when low on fuel (the tanks in the RV-4 are ahead of the CG). With the Pietenpol, it doesn't seem to change the flight characteristics much to be right up against the aft limit. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:45 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jboatri@emory.edu writes: I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its >published limit. I remember watching a King(?) video saying that flying with CG at aft limit could make your plane cruise faster and more economically. Something to the effect that it requires less elevator to control pitch..thereby reducing drag....just DON'T GO TOO FAR AFT!!!! Boyce _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:48 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- you think you're old? (off topic) Jack; the F-16 is a relatively young pup compared to one of my all-time favorites... the T-38 Talon. It was designed in the mid-1950s, eleven years before Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard introduced their first computer and about the time that Bill Gates emerged from his mother's womb. The T-38 was the world's first supersonic trainer and continues in service FIFTY YEARS LATER as a supersonic jet trainer for military pilots and for NASA. It is a masterpiece of form and function; fast and beautiful. Here where I work (Southwest Research Institute) our engineers are fatigue testing T-38 airframes and sub-assemblies to assist the DOD in determining the life limits of various parts and assemblies... they want to keep them flying and so do I. do not archive Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday cash from MSN today! http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:01 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- you think you're old? II PS- A Pietenpol departs Oshkosh Wittman airfield, headed for Brodhead, about 120 miles away. At the same time a T-38 leaves Oshkosh headed west. By the time the Piet taxies off the runway at Brodhead, the T-38 is past Portland, Oregon, 1600 miles away and about to leave the continental U.S.... ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jack- you think you're old? II From: "Phillips, Jack" But how many times did the T-38 have to hit the tanker? I don't believe a T-38 can fly 1600 miles at 800 mph without refueling. Maybe at 400, but supersonic speeds require A/B, and A/B's burn a LOT of fuel. More than you can carry in those thin wings. An F-16 with no external tanks carries 1,000 gals (6,000 lbs) of fuel. At max A/B, it burns 60,000 lbs per hour (1,000 lbs per minute) so it carries enough fuel for exactly 6 minutes of flight at zone 5 afterburner. Think of that the next time you watch "Iron Eagle" or any other movie showing lots of dogfighting with flames coming out the tailpipe. Another favorite movie inaccuracy of mine is the machine gun on a modern jet fighter. An F-16 uses an M61 Vulcan minigun. It fires 6,000 20 mm rounds per minute (100 rounds per second). The sound is very similar to a chainsaw (which, coincidentally runs at about 6,000 RPM). But in the movies, the gun sounds like a world war II machine gun (rat-tat-tat-tat...). The F-16 carries 510 rounds of ammo in a drum behind the cockpit. Do the math. You've got just over 5 SECONDS of firing. Yet in the movies they just rat-a-tat all over the place for minutes at a time, while running that afterburner. They also never mention the fact that firing the gun makes you feel like you just flew into a wall (the M61 produces 3500 lbs of thrust). The F-16 has the gun mounted on the left side, firing alongside the cockpit, so every time you pull the trigger, you've got 3500 lbs of backwards thrust located about 2 feet off the centerline of the airplane. The rudder automatically kicks to the left when the gun fires, to offset the moment that firing the gun produces. Don't get me started on movie inaccuracies... For Heaven's sake, do not archive Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- you think you're old? II --> PS- A Pietenpol departs Oshkosh Wittman airfield, headed for Brodhead, about 120 miles away. At the same time a T-38 leaves Oshkosh headed west. By the time the Piet taxies off the runway at Brodhead, the T-38 is past Portland, Oregon, 1600 miles away and about to leave the continental U.S.... ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. _________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:49 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: t-38 I just saw a T-38 an hour ago while I was at work. The flight crew was borrowing our "huffer" cart for engine start. From the 509th. I had never previously seen one up close, man that wing is THIN! It must land at half power and at 160kts or so? That looks like it would be a blast to fly, even if it can't slow down to 40mph for a landing. Shad --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-38 Talon From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Long as we're talking older jets, while at the USAF Museum in Dayton Ohio this summer I couldn't get over how short the T-38 Talon's wings were. I stretched my arms out from the side of the fuselage and just 3 feet from my fingertips was the wingtip--- each wing panel is only about 8.5 feet long ! A Pietenpol wing panel is 13 feet long and we can't climb nearly as fast as a T-38 but can out-turn them every single time ! The T-38 has had a bunch of upgrades--the Air Force loves it and if you go to the link below they are continually upgrading it with newer technology for keeping pace with the training requirements for the Air Force Materiel Command. Plus the plane is downright sexy. The T-38 needs only 2,300 feet of runway for takeoff and can climb from sea level to nearly 30,000 feet in one minute. Student pilots fly the T-38A to learn supersonic techniques, aerobatics, formation, night and instrument flying and cross-country navigation. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=126 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:03 PM PST US From: "Graham and Robyn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re varnish By two pack I did not refer to two cans of the same product, but one can of the basic varnish & one can of hardener. As suspected if you use the Dacron Stitts process for covering & use the wrong varnish, the Polytac will react & may destroy the varnish. If this happens then the whole integrity of the covering may be affected. Graham Hewitt ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: fl ying from Oshkosh to Brodhead From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Jack Phillips is going to like this story because he can relate big time. (you froze your butt off too flying south from Oshkosh in 2005 after that nice, crisp, cool Canadian air moved in to Wisconsin) Upon departing Oshkosh one year (before the control tower even opened) I was headed for Brodhead and decided it was so cool I'd better put on a sweatshirt under my jacket. I discovered that my 1/2 gal. drinking water container had leaked on my clothing duffle bag. The sweatshirt wasn't too wet so I put in on anyway. Even at 2,000 feet cruising I was freezing cold and wish I was in a T-38 with a heated cockpit and vein drain tube for my little friend down south. I ended up having to stop at Blackhawk Airport in Madison, jumping out, watering the grass along the runway lights and then getting in the still idling Piet to takeoff again. It was so dead I never even taxied off the runway. There is something to be said for fast airplanes--they get to to the comfort stations mucho more quicko. (that is for you TexMex guys like Oscar down sawuth. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:24 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-38 Talon From: "Phillips, Jack" Makes you want to be an astronaut, just so you can fly one. I'd rather fly an F-16, though. It'll climb at 40,000 feet per minute, and will roll at 540 degrees per second. I flew a friend's Extra 300L a few times and its roll rate of 400 degrees per second was literally mind-boggling. I got to fly the F-16 simulator while I was working for General Dynamics and the roll rate was absolutely frighteneing - even in a simulator. I crashed it. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 4:08 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-38 Talon Long as we're talking older jets, while at the USAF Museum in Dayton Ohio this summer I couldn't get over how short the T-38 Talon's wings were. I stretched my arms out from the side of the fuselage and just 3 feet from my fingertips was the wingtip--- each wing panel is only about 8.5 feet long ! A Pietenpol wing panel is 13 feet long and we can't climb nearly as fast as a T-38 but can out-turn them every single time ! The T-38 has had a bunch of upgrades--the Air Force loves it and if you go to the link below they are continually upgrading it with newer technology for keeping pace with the training requirements for the Air Force Materiel Command. Plus the plane is downright sexy. The T-38 needs only 2,300 feet of runway for takeoff and can climb from sea level to nearly 30,000 feet in one minute. Student pilots fly the T-38A to learn supersonic techniques, aerobatics, formation, night and instrument flying and cross-country navigation. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=126 _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:33 PM PST US From: Jeff Hill Subject: Pietenpol-List: T88 Well, son of a bear!!! I had that big refill size of T88 resin and I put in some very hot water over night. The next morning - no crystalization; no p roblem. Works great. Thanks. Jeff in Texas _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:49 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-38 Talon As long as we're talking about Piets out-turning other airplanes, check out some of the videos I just uploaded to youtube. They're not very good, but better than nothing on a cold day! Piet tangles with Cassutt (this one is long): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7cS4FJeWg My first slip into runway 06 at Lenora: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzvk0lmr4O4 Last one in for the evening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LhkqIN35Y8 And yes, the trees and houses really are that close on approach to 06. Jeff At 3:08 PM -0600 12/8/06, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote: >Long as we're talking older jets, while at the USAF Museum in Dayton >Ohio this summer I couldn't get over how short the T-38 Talon's >wings were. I stretched my arms out from the side of the fuselage >and just 3 feet from my fingertips was the wingtip--- each wing panel >is only about 8.5 feet long ! A Pietenpol wing panel is 13 feet >long and we can't climb nearly as fast as a T-38 but can out-turn >them every >single time ! > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:22 PM PST US From: "James Dallas" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jack- you think you're old? II Next thing you know you will be picking on the greatest movie spoof of all........Airplane Jim Dallas ----- Don't get me started on movie inaccuracies... For Heaven's sake, do not archive Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:37 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- you think you're old? II --> > PS- A Pietenpol departs Oshkosh Wittman airfield, headed for Brodhead, about 120 miles away. At the same time a T-38 leaves Oshkosh headed west. By the time the Piet taxies off the runway at Brodhead, the T-38 is past Portland, Oregon, 1600 miles away and about to leave the continental U.S.... ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. _________________________________________________ www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.kitlog.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.