Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 12/16/06


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:02 AM - Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (Johnwoods)
     2. 07:21 AM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (gcardinal)
     3. 08:35 AM - surface tapes (RBush96589@aol.com)
     4. 08:36 AM - Re: more pictures of controls ()
     5. 09:00 AM - Re: surface tapes (walt evans)
     6. 10:01 AM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (HelsperSew@aol.com)
     7. 10:10 AM - Re: surface tapes (Dick Navratil)
     8. 10:13 AM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (Dick Navratil)
     9. 10:35 AM - GN-1 For Sale (Skip-Cinda Gadd)
    10. 01:07 PM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (Rcaprd@aol.com)
    11. 01:44 PM - surface tapes (RBush96589@aol.com)
    12. 02:07 PM - radiators low? (Jeff Boatright)
    13. 02:13 PM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (walt evans)
    14. 02:28 PM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (Jeff Boatright)
    15. 02:54 PM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (Johnwoods)
    16. 03:38 PM - radiators low? (Oscar Zuniga)
    17. 03:43 PM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (walt evans)
    18. 04:39 PM - Re: Ohio Piets (shad bell)
    19. 07:42 PM - Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib (Don Emch)
    20. 08:24 PM - Re: air tran to sun fun (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
    21. 09:51 PM - First (and second) Flight (Peter W Johnson)
    22. 10:45 PM - Re: First (and second) Flight (Scott Schreiber)
    23. 11:33 PM - Re: radiators low? (Michael Groah)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:02:38 AM PST US
    From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au>
    Subject: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    Can I have some advice please. I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of the strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with alum attached with epoxy and screws. What did others do? Thankyou, JohnW --


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:21:17 AM PST US
    From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    On NX18235 the leading edge is glued and bolted to the ribs. 1/16 plywood is attached to the ribs with T88. Bolting the leading edge to the ribs is prudent. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:35:04 AM PST US
    From: RBush96589@aol.com
    Subject: surface tapes
    Hello everyone, I am finishing up on covering and was wondering if it is necessary to put surface tapes on the stringers on the turtle deck, looking at some of my photos it does'nt look as if everyone does Thanks, Robert Bush Lexington TN


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:36:26 AM PST US
    Subject: more pictures of controls
    From: <harvey.rule@bell.ca>
    The white napkins you see spread around are actually Downy cloths that one would use in the dryer for softening clothes.They keep the mice out of the aircraft because they can't stand the smell.In the spring I throw them away when preparing the plane for service.In the pics you can see the pulleys,turnbuckles and cables.I don't use a stick in the front because I don't carry passengers and even if I did I wouldn't want them playing around with it.You can also see the pulleys and rudder set up.


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:00:36 AM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: surface tapes
    Robert, The norm is for wherever the fabric contacts solid frame, it's reinforced with tape . All fabric "moves" on the structure, and can potentially wear thru. Leaving the fabric job instantly useless. If you get the Poly Fiber manual, It'll explain this walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: surface tapes Hello everyone, I am finishing up on covering and was wondering if it is necessary to put surface tapes on the stringers on the turtle deck, looking at some of my photos it does'nt look as if everyone does Thanks, Robert Bush Lexington TN


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:01:39 AM PST US
    From: HelsperSew@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    Folks, I used small #10 machine screws and nuts to hold the leading edge to the ribs. Even if you don't need them for strength, they are nice to have to insure positive placement until the glue dries. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:10:38 AM PST US
    From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: surface tapes
    Rob In my opinion, the stringers are the place it is most necessary to use the tapes. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: surface tapes Hello everyone, I am finishing up on covering and was wondering if it is necessary to put surface tapes on the stringers on the turtle deck, looking at some of my photos it does'nt look as if everyone does Thanks, Robert Bush Lexington TN


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:13:01 AM PST US
    From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    John I also drilled and countersunk #8 ss screws. Then filled holes with wood putty. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:35:56 AM PST US
    From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog@earthlink.net>
    Subject: GN-1 For Sale
    Bert Conoly has his GN-1 up on Barnstormers, the ad says 1995, but I think he completed it 2005. I know he wrote into the list when he made the first flight. http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESSID=ccffb167bc80bfcfeea0258513e115d2 Skip


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:07:58 PM PST US
    From: Rcaprd@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    In a message dated 12/16/2006 7:04:08 AM Central Standard Time, johnwoods@westnet.com.au writes: Can I have some advice please. I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of the strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with alum attached with epoxy and screws. What did others do? Thankyou, JohnW John, By dry fitting the leading edge with screws before using the adhesive, you will be able to get it on nice and straight and faster, once you mix the adhesive, and the clock starts ticking. The mechanical fasteners are a good backup if you get a bird strike. Pietenpol's don't always take bird strikes from the rear !! :) Keep in mind that Aluminum expands and contracts much different rate than wood, which might be a factor when it's sitting out under the sun on a Hot day. I don't think you need anything on the bottom of the leading edge...that's just extra time, effort, and weight. Chuck G. NX770CG


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:44:27 PM PST US
    From: RBush96589@aol.com
    Subject: surface tapes
    thanks guys for the advice on surface tapes,I'm almost done with the covering ,just have to cover the center section and then it is ready for paint. Robert Bush do not archive


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:07:20 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: radiators low?
    I've really enjoyed Chet Peek's book and recommend it to the list. In the book there is mention of a Bernie installing the radiator on an A-powered Scout below the engine. The story notes that Bernie never did it again, but does not explain why. Does anyone know? I recall at Brodhead one year a Piet that was powered by a B (I think) that had two radiators under the engine with frame running fore and aft. Duct work directed airflow in from the front, then 90 degrees to run across the face of the radiators. The airflow exited through controlled slats on the lower sides of the cowling. I apologize if my memory is playing tricks on me. I've never even seen pix of this Piet since. Other than these two examples, I don't know of any Piets with radiators below the engine. Are there any? If not, why not? Thanks for any input, Jeff -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:13:47 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    John, Don't understand why you would use aluminum. Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? John, only constructive critisism <sp> :^) If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter bottles, you can staple right thru them. The next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of the strip and pull all the staples out in one strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes sealed. PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to the plans, (Bernard knew how to design), I never cut any corners, which means I never put on less then he designed. But I didn't add. Empty licenced weight,,,595# My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can still climb out comfortabally with fuel aboard, from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white knuckles here. Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:28:16 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    Walt, I don't know the answer for doing it, but the builder of our Piet used aluminum as John is planning to. Wow, 595 lbs empty! What engine are you using? John, I would not do it if I were you. On ours, the shrinking of the fabric caused the aluminum to go all wavy. I'm sure it cuts down on the efficiency of the wing and it is ugly. I'd stick with the plans, FWIW. Jeff At 5:12 PM -0500 12/16/06, walt evans wrote: >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > reply-type=original >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >John, >Don't understand why you would use aluminum. >Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. >Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . >Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? >John, only constructive critisism <sp> > >:^) > >If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter >bottles, you can staple right thru them. The >next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of >the strip and pull all the staples out in one >strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes >sealed. > >PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to >the plans, (Bernard knew how to design), I never >cut any corners, which means I never put on less >then he designed. >But I didn't add. >Empty licenced weight,,,595# >My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can >still climb out comfortabally with fuel aboard, >from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white >knuckles here. > >Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. > > >walt evans >NX140DL > >"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" >Ben Franklin >----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > >>Can I have some advice please. >> >>I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't >>necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of the >>strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. >>Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? >>I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with >>alum attached with epoxy and screws. >>What did others do? >> >>Thankyou, >> >>JohnW >> >>-- >> > > >Attachment converted: BoatG5:walt 223.jpg (JPEG/IC) (00A61656) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:54:18 PM PST US
    From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au>
    Subject: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    Thanks for the advice folks. I'll stick to the plans but will use 1/16 ply instead of cardboard on the top only. Walt, I do have a mantra (while I'm meditating in front of the plans)..... Keep it light, stick to the plans. Keep it light, stick to the plans.... But no doubt I'll be asking some more questions with obvious answers....Follow the plans.... JohnW -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Sunday, 17 December 2006 6:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib John, Don't understand why you would use aluminum. Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? John, only constructive critisism <sp> :^) If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter bottles, you can staple right thru them. The next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of the strip and pull all the staples out in one strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes sealed. PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to the plans, (Bernard knew how to design), I never cut any corners, which means I never put on less then he designed. But I didn't add. Empty licenced weight,,,595# My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can still climb out comfortabally with fuel aboard, from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white knuckles here. Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > > -- --


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:38:35 PM PST US
    From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: radiators low?
    Jeff, I assume that the main reason why the radiator should be placed high is so that air and steam (if any) will collect at the top, in the radiator top collector, rather than bubbling up the hose to where the water pump is. You don't want air or steam in the water pump. And of course the other reason is that you want the water pump drawing the coolest water, which is at the bottom of the radiator. If your radiator is down low, the pump has to pull it up rather than having gravity assist it. Let the water pump push the hot water to the radiator, which keeps pressure on it and prevents cavitation. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list.


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:43:54 PM PST US
    From: "walt evans" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    Jeff, I'm using an A-65. With 1.7 oz fabric and the Poly Fiber Process Guess I've brought this up over and over, and if the group is sick of it,,,sorry. I was lucky enough to meet an old timer,,AP,,the personal mechanic/AP/redesigner, of Leo Loudenschlager<sp> 3 time (I think) world champ aerobatic pilot. And he became my Mentor This guy is down to earth to the max. And , to me, his word/opinion was the Gospel. He's still going strong, and his words always rattled in my head about "keep it light" Jeff, Yeah the good thing about thin ply , is that you don't have to scallop the back, when the fabric gets tightened, it pulls it down real nice. Bernard talked about this in one of his articles. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib Walt, I don't know the answer for doing it, but the builder of our Piet used aluminum as John is planning to. Wow, 595 lbs empty! What engine are you using? John, I would not do it if I were you. On ours, the shrinking of the fabric caused the aluminum to go all wavy. I'm sure it cuts down on the efficiency of the wing and it is ugly. I'd stick with the plans, FWIW. Jeff At 5:12 PM -0500 12/16/06, walt evans wrote: >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > reply-type=original >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >John, >Don't understand why you would use aluminum. >Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. >Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . >Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? >John, only constructive critisism <sp> > >:^) > >If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter bottles, you can staple right >thru them. The next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of the strip and >pull all the staples out in one strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes >sealed. > >PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to the plans, (Bernard knew >how to design), I never cut any corners, which means I never put on less >then he designed. >But I didn't add. >Empty licenced weight,,,595# >My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can still climb out comfortabally >with fuel aboard, from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white knuckles >here. > >Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. > > >walt evans >NX140DL > >"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" >Ben Franklin >----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods@westnet.com.au> >To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > >>Can I have some advice please. >> >>I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't >>necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of >>the >>strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. >>Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? >>I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with >>alum attached with epoxy and screws. >>What did others do? >> >>Thankyou, >> >>JohnW >> >>-- >> > > >Attachment converted: BoatG5:walt 223.jpg (JPEG/IC) (00A61656) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri@emory.edu


    Message 18


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    Time: 04:39:30 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Ohio Piets
    Gene, I will let you know what and when I plan to attend as far as fly ins, as soon as I know which ones I will be going to. I hope to be able to attend as many as possible this spring/ summer. I have limmited experiance with the longer cross countries, but tennesee would be a long weekend trip. If you know of any really good fly ins down in your neck of the woods let me know and I'll think of heading down south of the old Mason Dixon Line. It's gonna take some real getting used to the rebuilt corvair before I tackle the Apalatation (spelling) mountians. I know these are considdered "Hills" to the far westerners on the list, but I don't want to tear up Dad's Piet trying to be Wiley Post. Have a merry Christmas, and to all a good night. Shad Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bellsouth.net> wrote: Shad, If you can, please post the dates of the differant fly-ins and locations for those of us that are fairly new to this part of the world. I live in Tennessee and as time permits I want to attend as many fly-ins as possible with my Piet. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: Pietenpol Discussion Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piets Hello All, Dad and I will more than likely be at the WACO fly in this year at Wyncoop in Mt Vrenon. If I am able I will also be at any other piet fly-ins in the area. The waco fly in is pretty good, MERFI is also pretty good. I like to see all the homebuilts and old "rag bags". As far as having to be an all piet fly-in I say we just call it a taildragger fly-in. If we have it at a "shorter" grass strip airport, say 2500- 3000ft runway (which some new hotshot jet jockys call short), we will attract simmilar airplanes. Or maybe we call it a homebuilt fly in, or grass roots fly in. I have a few guys here at Chapman Field who want to get a fly in calender togeather and fly to some fly ins as a group this summer. One has a Avid, one a Cub, And another few with an L-3, a colt, and a Stinson 108. If we had it on grass it would probably discourage the "Fast Glass" factory built "homebuilts". Although href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List __________________________________________________


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:42:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    Another thing I noticed is that the wing really stiffens up once the leading edge ply is glued to the leading edge and to the ribs. Many things on the plans work together and serve more purposes than just what might be first apparent. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82022#82022


    Message 20


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    Time: 08:24:29 PM PST US
    From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
    Subject: Re: air tran to sun fun
    I just booked non stop too and from sun fun for $218.60 on air tran using ther home page hope to see you ther mal michigan


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:51:56 PM PST US
    From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
    Subject: First (and second) Flight
    Hi Guys, Here is a quick story of my first two flights. Both are very memorable occasions...... I had finished the Pietenpol at the beginning of December and had the Certificate of Airworthiness issued on the 3rd December 2006. I had to wait a while for a new prop to be finished so I used my old home made prop for ground runs. During the last week I carried out some high speed taxi runs along the runway and found some temperature problems with the Corvair engine, both oil temp and cylinder head temps. I improved the baffleing and managed some better cooling figures. After a few high speed taxi runs the oil temp was near the high end of normal but the cylinder temps were OK. My old prop was developing 2500 rpm static. When the new one arrived, only 2300 rpm was realised. I also changed the castor angle on the tailwheel to make the rudder more responsive on the ground. Yesterday I managed to get a few flights down the runway with both props, all was looking good although the prop rpm was still less than I would have liked. Today dawned cool and calm so I decided the first flight was in order. I did a high speed taxi first and after that was Ok I decided it was time to fly. I applied full power and the Piet climbed gracefully into the circuit. The rpm improved a little but was still well below the power band of the Corvair. The aircraft handled well but with a need for slight left rudder to maintain the heading. A good landing followed and I taxied back to the hangar. On the way back to the hangar the oil temp was again climbing a little higher than I liked. I was feeling really good. After an hour or so my hangar mate asked if I was going to do another flight. He had missed the first one. I said yes and taxied out to the runway again. The outside temp had gone up a few degrees and a slight breeze had started, probably only a couple of knots or so. I taxied out to runway 22 (there are more out field landing areas at the end of 22 than on 04) and started the take off roll with just a tad of tailwind. A slow climb out followed with the feeling that the engine was not developing anywhere near the full power. The temps were starting to climb higher than normal so I made a tight circuit and lined up for a landing on the grass beside RW 22. The airspeed was a little high over the fence so I pulled back the power and pulled the nose slightly higher to reduce the speed. The flare was a little fast and a bounce followed. I was about to catch it with power when the engine quit. I hit the grass and with little airflow over the rudder, ground looped the Piet into the embankment at the side of the runway. The starboard undercarriage collapsed and I got a large ding in the leading edge of the starboard wing near the tip when it connected with the post of the electric fence along the top of the embankment. So much for a good second flight. With some help from the guys on the air field we managed to get the Piet back into the hanger on a trike trailer. Looks like I shall be buying some steel tubing for the undercarriage after Christmas and carrying out the repair on the wing. I have enough materials for that. The conclusions? make sure the plane is running correctly before flying and don't fly just to please someone else, especially in conditions that are not what you are happy with. I am still very happy that the first flight was successful and that the Piet flies like it should. I just need to get the correct prop sorted out and the repairs carried out and I will be a happy camper again. I have posted some pictures on my web site at http://www.cpc-world.com/main.php?insert_file=loop.php Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 5:39 PM


    Message 22


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    Time: 10:45:40 PM PST US
    From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b@subarubrat.com>
    Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
    Sorry to hear about the mishap. I do want to complement you on your great photos that cleared up a few questions I had and gave me some solutions. Your method for the turtle deck stringers was great, I could see doing that allot easier than cutting all those slots and such. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 12:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First (and second) Flight > <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> > > Hi Guys, > > Here is a quick story of my first two flights. Both are very memorable > occasions...... > > > I had finished the Pietenpol at the beginning of December and had the > Certificate of Airworthiness issued on the 3rd December 2006. I had to > wait > a while for a new prop to be finished so I used my old home made prop for > ground runs. During the last week I carried out some high speed taxi runs > along the runway and found some temperature problems with the Corvair > engine, both oil temp and cylinder head temps. I improved the baffleing > and > managed some better cooling figures. After a few high speed taxi runs the > oil temp was near the high end of normal but the cylinder temps were OK. > My > old prop was developing 2500 rpm static. When the new one arrived, only > 2300 > rpm was realised. I also changed the castor angle on the tailwheel to make > the rudder more responsive on the ground. Yesterday I managed to get a few > flights down the runway with both props, all was looking good although the > prop rpm was still less than I would have liked. > > Today dawned cool and calm so I decided the first flight was in order. I > did > a high speed taxi first and after that was Ok I decided it was time to > fly. > I applied full power and the Piet climbed gracefully into the circuit. The > rpm improved a little but was still well below the power band of the > Corvair. The aircraft handled well but with a need for slight left rudder > to > maintain the heading. A good landing followed and I taxied back to the > hangar. On the way back to the hangar the oil temp was again climbing a > little higher than I liked. > > I was feeling really good. > > After an hour or so my hangar mate asked if I was going to do another > flight. He had missed the first one. I said yes and taxied out to the > runway > again. The outside temp had gone up a few degrees and a slight breeze had > started, probably only a couple of knots or so. I taxied out to runway 22 > (there are more out field landing areas at the end of 22 than on 04) and > started the take off roll with just a tad of tailwind. A slow climb out > followed with the feeling that the engine was not developing anywhere near > the full power. The temps were starting to climb higher than normal so I > made a tight circuit and lined up for a landing on the grass beside RW 22. > The airspeed was a little high over the fence so I pulled back the power > and > pulled the nose slightly higher to reduce the speed. The flare was a > little > fast and a bounce followed. I was about to catch it with power when the > engine quit. I hit the grass and with little airflow over the rudder, > ground > looped the Piet into the embankment at the side of the runway. The > starboard > undercarriage collapsed and I got a large ding in the leading edge of the > starboard wing near the tip when it connected with the post of the > electric > fence along the top of the embankment. > > So much for a good second flight. > > With some help from the guys on the air field we managed to get the Piet > back into the hanger on a trike trailer. > > Looks like I shall be buying some steel tubing for the undercarriage after > Christmas and carrying out the repair on the wing. I have enough materials > for that. > > The conclusions? make sure the plane is running correctly before flying > and > don't fly just to please someone else, especially in conditions that are > not > what you are happy with. > > I am still very happy that the first flight was successful and that the > Piet > flies like it should. I just need to get the correct prop sorted out and > the > repairs carried out and I will be a happy camper again. > > > I have posted some pictures on my web site at > http://www.cpc-world.com/main.php?insert_file=loop.php > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > -- > 5:39 PM > > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 11:33:15 PM PST US
    From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: radiators low?
    Having the radiator set high also helps with a thermal siphoning effect. The Model T engines originally used no water pump at all. They relied on thermal siphoning. As the water in the engine heated it rose up the pipe into the top of the radiator where it was cooled and sank being taken back into the engine by the lower hose. My '14 T will run all day long in Central CA's 100+ summer heat without any heating problems. Model A's on the other hand had a pump but the thermal siphon effect has to do it's part. Jeff, I assume that the main reason why the radiator should be placed high is so that air and steam (if any) will collect at the top, in the radiator top collector, rather than bubbling up the hose to where the water pump is. You don't want air or steam in the water pump. And of course the other reason is that you want the water pump drawing the coolest water, which is at the bottom of the radiator. If your radiator is down low, the pump has to pull it up rather than having gravity assist it. Let the water pump push the hot water to the radiator, which keeps pressure on it and prevents cavitation. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. __________________________________________________




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