Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:13 AM - Re: radiators low? (Skip-Cinda Gadd)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: radiators low? (Jeff Boatright)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Model Pietenpol (Bill Church)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: First (and second) Flight (Hans Vander Voort)
5. 06:33 AM - Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Roman Bukolt)
6. 07:23 AM - Re: First (and second) Flight (shad bell)
7. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Isablcorky@aol.com)
8. 08:01 AM - FW: E-mail Infrastructure Upgrade (Rob Stapleton)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Alan Lyscars)
10. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Rick Holland)
11. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (amsafetyc@aol.com)
12. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Ed G.)
13. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (HelsperSew@aol.com)
14. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Rick Holland)
15. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Kip and Beth Gardner)
16. 01:40 PM - Re: First (and second) Flight (Peter W Johnson)
17. 03:00 PM - Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Don Emch)
18. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (johnwoods@westnet.com.au)
19. 08:08 PM - Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Don Emch)
20. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Roman Bukolt)
21. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Roman Bukolt)
22. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Roman Bukolt)
23. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil (Roman Bukolt)
Message 1
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Jeff,
I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said
the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has
any cooling issues.
If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be
real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for the
movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
Skip
>
> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
> performed otherwise?
> Jeff
Message 2
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Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his
Piet. I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will
get him to write more articles for the newsletter.
At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
>
>Jeff,
>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said
>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has
>any cooling issues.
>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be
>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for the
>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
>Skip
>
>
>>
>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
>> performed otherwise?
>
> > Jeff
>
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 3
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Scott and Wayne,
Thanks very much for the specific advice. This is exactly the type of
advice I was hoping for, from someone with first-hand experience. I'll
try the GWS IPS unit as-is, and if I feel I need more performance, I'll
upgrade to a brushless motor.
Bill C
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First (and second) Flight |
Peter,
Congratulations on your first and second flight.
The first one confirms all your years of hard work.
The second one builds character and makes you a better pilot.
I know you had some temperature issues before, and I would look there for
your engine trouble.
Plus most engine outs are fuel related.
High CHT could cause detonation resulting in power drop (200-300 RPM less)
what fuel do you use?
High under cowling temps could cause vapor lock in the fuel line, starting
with a drop in engine rpm or total stop.
My first flight advisor suggested a static 4 minute full power run with the
tail low before of the first flight (4 minutes of full power will get you
out of a lot of trouble)
Your engine should perform as advertised during this test, no high
temperatures, the Pietenpol is not a fast airplane so cooling will not
improve a whole lot with airspeed.
Engines cool down during cruise because they get throttled back, burn less
fuel and create less heat.
Welcome to the world of test pilots!
Hans
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Hi People!
Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred
radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he
thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the owner
and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in
Sullivan, Wi.
The plane had not been touched in two yrs.
Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it
running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a
military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a
renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it.
This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a really
well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer at
Brodhead.
About the airfoil!
Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not
build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing
airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil
designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612.
It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It
far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating.
Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a
thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5.
The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord
thickness.
Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the
front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the Piet
airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show.
At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed,
greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his plane
climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than any
of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full
throttle.
These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We
evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted
them out.
The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill Rewey
about these airfoils.
I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to
anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will build
one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not
been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built and
they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I hadn't
started assembling the wing yet.
Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low?
>
> Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his Piet.
> I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to
> write more articles for the newsletter.
>
> At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
>><csfog@earthlink.net>
>>
>>Jeff,
>>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said
>>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has
>>any cooling issues.
>>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be
>>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
>>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for
>>the
>>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
>>Skip
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
>>> performed otherwise?
>>
>> > Jeff
>>
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First (and second) Flight |
Peter, Which oil cooler are you using? We had the same problem with high oil
temp on our first few flights. Origionally, Dad had a 7 plate oil cooler installed,
but changed it to a 12 plate oil cooler. This only took an hour or so
to do, not counting the ground runs and leak checks. We flew all summer in 90+
degree days with no further trouble. I think dad ordered his cooler from clarks
corvair and it was less than $100 I believe, and installed it a week or
so after he ordered it. Also, I don't think we had to do any modification to
the baffling, just unbolt the old cooler and bolt on the new. As far as a prop
we have a Hegy 66-30 and get 3100rpm static, 3300 unloaded on climbout. Good
luck with the repairs, and don't woory about the patches in the fabric. They
add charactor, proud battle scars. You'll be flying again in a couple months
or so.
Shad
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Roman,
I am quite interested in the two full sized airfoils as mentioned. Please
give me a mailing address so I may send you my last $10.00.
Corky
625 Pierremont Rd
Shreveport, La 71106
Message 8
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| Subject: | FW: E-mail Infrastructure Upgrade |
FYI, I hope I don't loose the list over this...!
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: ACS Notices [mailto:noreply@acsalaska.net]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: E-mail Infrastructure Upgrade
Dear ACS Customer,
Due to our steadily increasing number of email customers, we must
occasionally
upgrade our system capacity to ensure that we continue to offer the most
robust
and competitive communication services available. The next upgrade is
scheduled
to begin Tuesday, December 19th and end Thursday, December 21st.
For your convenience, we've scheduled this upgrade during time periods that
typically show the lowest usage. Beginning at 10:00pm each evening, our
web-based mail services will not be available. Mail sent from non-web
clients,
i.e., Microsoft Outlook, will be queued for later delivery. Work will end
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No mail will be lost as part of this upgrade.
If you have any concerns or comments regarding this possible interruption,
please contact ACS at outages@acsalaska.net Any replies sent to
noreply@acsalaska.net are automatically deleted by the system.
For other Internet related issues, please feel free to contact our Internet
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Thank you for being an ACS customer.
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Roman,
Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot?
Al Lyscars
Portland, Maine
It is called a GA-30U-612.
> It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It
> far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Interesting, after I finish my Piet and start getting bored because I don't
have anything to build I can build a second wing. I will be sending you $10
also. I hate to even think about what the 'build it to the plans' purists
are going to say about this.
Rick
On 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net> wrote:
>
> conceptmodels@tds.net>
>
> Hi People!
> Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred
> radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he
> thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the
> owner
> and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in
> Sullivan, Wi.
> The plane had not been touched in two yrs.
> Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it
> running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a
> military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a
> renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it.
> This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a
> really
> well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer at
> Brodhead.
> About the airfoil!
> Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not
> build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing
> airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil
> designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612.
> It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It
> far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
> Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating.
> Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a
> thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5.
> The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord
> thickness.
> Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the
> front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the Piet
> airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show.
> At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed,
> greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his
> plane
> climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than
> any
> of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full
> throttle.
> These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We
> evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted
> them out.
> The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill
> Rewey
> about these airfoils.
> I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to
> anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will
> build
> one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not
> been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built and
> they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I
> hadn't
> started assembling the wing yet.
>
> Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low?
>
>
> >
> > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his
> Piet.
> > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to
> > write more articles for the newsletter.
> >
> > At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
> >><csfog@earthlink.net>
> >>
> >>Jeff,
> >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He
> said
> >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it
> has
> >>any cooling issues.
> >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be
> >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
> >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for
> >>the
> >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
> >>Skip
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
> >>> performed otherwise?
> >>
> >> > Jeff
> >>
> >
> > --
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> > mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Sounds like something of interest to me also, what's the address? I haven't started
building yet but always interested in improvements.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: alyscars@maine.rr.com
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Roman,
Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot?
Al Lyscars
Portland, Maine
It is called a GA-30U-612.
> It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It
> far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
________________________________________________________________________
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
So what address do we need to send the ten bucks to??? I would be interested
in at least looking it over..I saw Mr. Lowell's piet climb out at Brodhead
too, but thought it's great performance was just because of the large
diameter prop that he had on the big radial engine. ......Ed G.
>From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:08:45 -0700
>
>Interesting, after I finish my Piet and start getting bored because I don't
>have anything to build I can build a second wing. I will be sending you $10
>also. I hate to even think about what the 'build it to the plans' purists
>are going to say about this.
>
>Rick
>
>On 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net> wrote:
>>
>>conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>
>>Hi People!
>>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred
>>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he
>>thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the
>>owner
>>and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in
>>Sullivan, Wi.
>>The plane had not been touched in two yrs.
>>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it
>>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a
>>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a
>>renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it.
>>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a
>>really
>>well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer at
>>Brodhead.
>>About the airfoil!
>>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not
>>build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing
>>airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil
>>designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612.
>>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It
>>far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
>>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating.
>>Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a
>>thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5.
>>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord
>>thickness.
>>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the
>>front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the Piet
>>airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show.
>>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed,
>>greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his
>>plane
>>climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than
>>any
>>of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full
>>throttle.
>>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We
>>evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted
>>them out.
>>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill
>>Rewey
>>about these airfoils.
>>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to
>>anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will
>>build
>>one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not
>>been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built and
>>they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I
>>hadn't
>>started assembling the wing yet.
>>
>>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved)
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM
>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low?
>>
>>
>><jboatri@emory.edu>
>> >
>> > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his
>>Piet.
>> > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to
>> > write more articles for the newsletter.
>> >
>> > At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
>> >><csfog@earthlink.net>
>> >>
>> >>Jeff,
>> >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He
>>said
>> >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it
>>has
>> >>any cooling issues.
>> >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would
>>be
>> >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
>> >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for
>> >>the
>> >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
>> >>Skip
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
>> >>> performed otherwise?
>> >>
>> >> > Jeff
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > _____________________________________________________________
>> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
>> > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
>> > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
>> > mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Rick Holland
>
>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Shame, Shame on anybody even THINKING about using this morphodite,
parasitic, foreign airfoil. Bernie is rolling over in his grave!
Where do I send my ten bucks?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Hey Dan, to be safe send only cash (unmarked bills) and have the airfoil
plans sent to an anonymous post office box. Then go to the post office and
check for reception of the plans only between 2 and 3 in the morning and go
in a borrowed (or stolen) car. This will ensure you will not be castigated
for committing this abomination on the name of Piethood.
Rick
On 12/18/06, HelsperSew@aol.com <HelsperSew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> *Shame, Shame on anybody even THINKING about using this morphodite,
> parasitic, foreign airfoil. Bernie is rolling over in his grave!*
> **
> *Where do I send my ten bucks?
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Roman,
I'll be sending you my $10. Not suprised there's a better-performing
airfoil - the undercamber looks pretty on paper, but I never could
see what advantage there was - just adds drag I suspect. I think
Bernard settled on that airfoil just because he 'liked' the way it
looked.
Just finished my "traditional" rib jig, but what the heck!
Kip Gardner
At 8:31 AM -0600 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt wrote:
>
>Hi People!
>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred
>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me
>he thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of
>the owner and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at
>her hangar in Sullivan, Wi.
>The plane had not been touched in two yrs.
>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it
>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a
>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve
>her a renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it.
>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying
>a really well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it
>next summer at Brodhead.
>About the airfoil!
>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did
>not build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better
>performing airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who
>also did airfoil designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a
>GA-30U-612.
>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no
>undercamber. It far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor
>rating. Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil
>with even a thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5.
>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5%
>chord thickness.
>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from
>the front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness
>from the Piet airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5
>airfoil, it would show.
>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher
>speed, greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics.
>I saw his plane climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and
>double the altitude than any of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp
>wasn't even running at full throttle.
>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself.
>We evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we
>plotted them out.
>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by
>Bill Rewey about these airfoils.
>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is
>available to anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I
>definitely will build one of the two for my Piet. I understand that
>the 613.5 airfoil has not been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full
>set of the Piet ribs all built and they'll be available for sale at
>Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I hadn't started assembling the
>wing yet.
>
>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved)
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low?
>
>>
>>Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on
>>his Piet. I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher
>>will get him to write more articles for the newsletter.
>>
>>At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
>>><csfog@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>Jeff,
>>>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said
>>>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has
>>>any cooling issues.
>>>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be
>>>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
>>>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for the
>>>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
>>>Skip
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
>>>> performed otherwise?
>>>
>>> > Jeff
>>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________
>>Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
>>Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
>>Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
>>mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
North Canton, OH
Message 16
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| Subject: | First (and second) Flight |
Hans, Shad,
Thanks for the comments. I have the 8 plate cooler but have just ordered a
12 plate from Clarks.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander
Voort
Sent: Tuesday, 19 December 2006 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First (and second) Flight
<hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com>
Peter,
Congratulations on your first and second flight.
The first one confirms all your years of hard work.
The second one builds character and makes you a better pilot.
I know you had some temperature issues before, and I would look there for
your engine trouble.
Plus most engine outs are fuel related.
High CHT could cause detonation resulting in power drop (200-300 RPM less)
what fuel do you use?
High under cowling temps could cause vapor lock in the fuel line, starting
with a drop in engine rpm or total stop.
My first flight advisor suggested a static 4 minute full power run with the
tail low before of the first flight (4 minutes of full power will get you
out of a lot of trouble)
Your engine should perform as advertised during this test, no high
temperatures, the Pietenpol is not a fast airplane so cooling will not
improve a whole lot with airspeed.
Engines cool down during cruise because they get throttled back, burn less
fuel and create less heat.
Welcome to the world of test pilots!
Hans
--
3:17 PM
--
3:17 PM
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
I'm sure there are better airfoils out there but heck, that's part of the Pietenpol
legend! When people ask about the wing you won't be able to tell them all
about Mr. Pietenpol's highly technical research. Kidding aside the old one
ain't too bad either. On 65hp. I just flew my 230lb. dad and 185lb. me around
the other day at 78-80mph, out climbed the cub I used to fly, and landed at around
32mph or so. Not too bad for his trial and error engineering. I guess
I lean toward the purists though! :-)
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82310#82310
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Hi Roman,
I am just starting my Piet in Australia and am about to lay up the
wing ribs.
I would be interested in these Riblett airfoils.
Would you be able to post the co-ordinates for these airfoils?
Regards,
JohnW
---- Original Message ----
From: conceptmodels@tds.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
><conceptmodels@tds.net>
>
>Hi People!
>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred
>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he
>
>thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the
>owner
>and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in
>
>Sullivan, Wi.
>The plane had not been touched in two yrs.
>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it
>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a
>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve
>her a
>renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it.
>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a
>really
>well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next
>summer at
>Brodhead.
>About the airfoil!
>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did
>not
>build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better
>performing
>airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did
>airfoil
>designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612.
>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no
>undercamber. It
>far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor
>rating.
>Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even
>a
>thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5.
>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord
>
>thickness.
>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from
>the
>front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the
>Piet
>airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would
>show.
>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher
>speed,
>greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw
>his plane
>climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude
>than any
>of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full
>throttle.
>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We
>
>evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we
>plotted
>them out.
>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by
>Bill Rewey
>about these airfoils.
>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is
>available to
>anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely
>will build
>one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has
>not
>been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all
>built and
>they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I
>hadn't
>started assembling the wing yet.
>
>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved)
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low?
>
>
><jboatri@emory.edu>
>>
>> Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on
>his Piet.
>> I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get
>him to
>> write more articles for the newsletter.
>>
>> At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
>>><csfog@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>Jeff,
>>>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead.
>He said
>>>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think
>it has
>>>any cooling issues.
>>>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he
>would be
>>>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
>>>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert
>for
>>>the
>>>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
>>>Skip
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
>>>> performed otherwise?
>>>
>>> > Jeff
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
>> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
>> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
>> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
One thing to keep in mind, then I'll stop preaching, with other airfoils on the
Piet, is the rear most C.G. for that particular airfoil. Especially since Piets
tend to be tail heavy. Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil is fairly forgiving of rear
C.G.. Just be sure to know the limits.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82364#82364
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
RomanBukolt
6505 Urich Terrace
Madison, Wi 54719
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Hey Dan, to be safe send only cash (unmarked bills) and have the
airfoil plans sent to an anonymous post office box. Then go to the post
office and check for reception of the plans only between 2 and 3 in the
morning and go in a borrowed (or stolen) car. This will ensure you will
not be castigated for committing this abomination on the name of
Piethood.
Rick
On 12/18/06, HelsperSew@aol.com <HelsperSew@aol.com> wrote:
Shame, Shame on anybody even THINKING about using this morphodite,
parasitic, foreign airfoil. Bernie is rolling over in his grave!
Where do I send my ten bucks?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Roman Bukolt
6505 Urich Terrace
Madison, Wi. 53719
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
>
> So what address do we need to send the ten bucks to??? I would be
> interested in at least looking it over..I saw Mr. Lowell's piet climb out
> at Brodhead too, but thought it's great performance was just because of
> the large diameter prop that he had on the big radial engine. ......Ed G.
>
>
>>From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft@gmail.com>
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
>>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:08:45 -0700
>>
>>Interesting, after I finish my Piet and start getting bored because I
>>don't
>>have anything to build I can build a second wing. I will be sending you
>>$10
>>also. I hate to even think about what the 'build it to the plans' purists
>>are going to say about this.
>>
>>Rick
>>
>>On 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>conceptmodels@tds.net>
>>>
>>>Hi People!
>>>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred
>>>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he
>>>thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the
>>>owner
>>>and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in
>>>Sullivan, Wi.
>>>The plane had not been touched in two yrs.
>>>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it
>>>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a
>>>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a
>>>renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it.
>>>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a
>>>really
>>>well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer
>>>at
>>>Brodhead.
>>>About the airfoil!
>>>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not
>>>build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing
>>>airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil
>>>designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612.
>>>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber.
>>>It
>>>far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
>>>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating.
>>>Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a
>>>thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5.
>>>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord
>>>thickness.
>>>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the
>>>front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the
>>>Piet
>>>airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show.
>>>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed,
>>>greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his
>>>plane
>>>climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than
>>>any
>>>of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full
>>>throttle.
>>>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We
>>>evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted
>>>them out.
>>>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill
>>>Rewey
>>>about these airfoils.
>>>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to
>>>anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will
>>>build
>>>one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not
>>>been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built
>>>and
>>>they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I
>>>hadn't
>>>started assembling the wing yet.
>>>
>>>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved)
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
>>>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM
>>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low?
>>>
>>>
>>><jboatri@emory.edu>
>>> >
>>> > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his
>>>Piet.
>>> > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him
>>> > to
>>> > write more articles for the newsletter.
>>> >
>>> > At 7:13 AM -0500 12/18/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote:
>>> >><csfog@earthlink.net>
>>> >>
>>> >>Jeff,
>>> >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He
>>>said
>>> >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it
>>>has
>>> >>any cooling issues.
>>> >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would
>>>be
>>> >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about
>>> >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert
>>> >>for
>>> >>the
>>> >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes.
>>> >>Skip
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and
>>> >>> performed otherwise?
>>> >>
>>> >> > Jeff
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > _____________________________________________________________
>>> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
>>> > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
>>> > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
>>> > mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Rick Holland
>>
>>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Roman Bukolt
6505 Urich Terrace
Madison, Wi. 53719
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Sounds like something of interest to me also, what's the address? I
haven't started building yet but always interested in improvements.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: alyscars@maine.rr.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
<alyscars@maine.rr.com>
Roman,
Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot?
Al Lyscars
Portland, Maine
It is called a GA-30U-612.
> It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber.
It
> far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil |
Roman Bukolt
6505 Urich Terrace
Madison, Wi. 53719
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars@maine.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
> <alyscars@maine.rr.com>
>
> Roman,
>
> Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot?
>
> Al Lyscars
> Portland, Maine
>
> It is called a GA-30U-612.
>> It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber.
>> It
>> far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil.
>
>
>
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