---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/22/06: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:04 AM - Re: Lift strut vibration (Ed G.) 2. 07:21 AM - pirep on goggles (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 07:26 AM - Re: Strut vibration (Rick Holland) 4. 07:34 AM - Re: Strut vibration () 5. 07:41 AM - Engine selection questions (Jack T. Textor) 6. 07:44 AM - Re: Lift strut vibration (Rick Holland) 7. 07:48 AM - Re: Strut vibration (Rick Holland) 8. 09:02 AM - Wing Rib Lacing (Mike Luther) 9. 09:35 AM - Re: Engine selection questions (Mike Luther) 10. 09:57 AM - Re: Wing Rib Lacing (Hans Vander Voort) 11. 10:59 AM - Sky Gypsy Makes Aviation Week & Space Technology (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 12. 01:44 PM - Vibration (lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan)) 13. 03:40 PM - Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (Peter W Johnson) 14. 04:12 PM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (KMHeide) 15. 04:12 PM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (Rick Holland) 16. 06:06 PM - Re: Wing Rib Lacing (Mike Luther) 17. 06:14 PM - Re: Strut vibration (Rcaprd@aol.com) 18. 06:15 PM - Re: Wing Rib Lacing (Rcaprd@aol.com) 19. 06:19 PM - Re: Lift strut vibration (Rcaprd@aol.com) 20. 09:53 PM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (Javier Cruz) 21. 11:34 PM - Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. (Peter W Johnson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:41 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a great holiday season.....Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Leon Stefan To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) " Does this apply to the lower right strut as well?" Harvy: "leave a little slack" (words of BHP in the old news letter) applied to the lower end of all 4 lift struts. No problem up top because those"lolly pop" fittings are actually a hinge. I don't recall if the guy he was talking to used jury struts or no jurys. BHP as you know didn't so I'm sure he had vibration even though the streamline tubing he used was formed with the 4 stiffener ribs made into them. None of this may even be a problem with vibration dampening jury struts. It was interesting to look at Alan Rudolphs lift struts at Brodhead. If you get a chance to see these struts check them out. Interesting note on vibration--It's fun to watch the radio antenna on my pickup as I drive. Its made of thin wire and sometimes I see 3 waves of vibration in it as I drive. Dave Abramson--Sorry I couldn't read your question. Yours and many others have started showing up on my screen as dark blue text on a slightly darker blue back ground. Maybe Santa will bring me a new computer and a Hooters babe to show to use it. Rick--Your winter pictures kind of make us long for those mild Ohio winters don't it. Leon S. www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.kitlog.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:46 AM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: pirep on goggles Michael Silvius wrote- >These seem to be the best deal going for clasic flying goggles. >cant imagine anyone cheaper and at 15$ you can't beat the price. >available in black or chrome frame. > >http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=023612&Category_Code=23 I was looking for an inexpensive pair of flying goggles and purchased a pair of these, with the black frames. Have not flown with them yet. They appear to be foreign made (and I'm not talking Great Britain) judging from the broken English on the box, worth what I paid for them ($15). The lenses are acrylic or polycarbonate, not glass (which is fine). Trim pieces are stainless steel but with sharp edges (stamped). The box says the frames are padded leather; if so, it's quite thin leather but they do fit comfortably. Look like they might last one or two flying seasons, tops. I wear contact lenses and absolutely must have something to keep my lenses from drying out in the propblast. I have ski goggles as well, but wanted something that looked more like flying goggles. Not a bad deal for the money but certainly not authentic leather with glass lenses. If that's what you're expecting look elsewhere. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping Sales & Deals http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0639 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:43 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration Chuck Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. Rick On 12/21/06, Rcaprd@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, > lshutks@webtv.net writes: > > Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back > issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten > the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave > a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its > movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and > failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as > Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs > flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a > sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. > rather than east to Ks. > > Leon, > I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much > of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more > prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't > like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it > would wallow out the bolt holes. > That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is > still closed down from yesterday !! > > Merry Christmas to all !! > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > * > > > www.aeroelectric.com > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration From: I think he ment that if things were left loose that the holes would enlarge from wear over time. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: December 22, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration Chuck Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. Rick On 12/21/06, Rcaprd@aol.com < Rcaprd@aol.com > wrote: In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, lshutks@webtv.net writes: Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. rather than east to Ks. Leon, I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it would wallow out the bolt holes. That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is still closed down from yesterday !! Merry Christmas to all !! Chuck G. NX770CG www.aeroelectric.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine selection questions From: "Jack T. Textor" Merry Christmas All! I'm starting to look for a mid-time 0-200, or possibly C-85 or 90. Should I be looking for the F (flanged hub) designation? Are there other things I should be considering? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:16 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration Leon That kind of vibration is typical when using a "Kansas Radio Antenna" (a coat hanger). If you had a real antenna you wouldn't see that. Rick do not archive Interesting note on vibration--It's fun to watch > the radio antenna on my pickup as I drive. Its made of thin wire and > sometimes I see 3 waves of vibration in it as I drive. Dave > Abramson--Sorry I couldn't read your question. Yours and many others > have started showing up on my screen as dark blue text on a slightly > darker blue back ground. Maybe Santa will bring me a new computer and a > Hooters babe to show to use it. Rick--Your winter pictures kind of make > us long for those mild Ohio winters don't it. Leon S. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:26 AM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration The strut forks I purchased from ACS came with drilled short bolts and castle nuts. You could say that is a loose attachment since it can swing forward and backward. Rick On 12/22/06, harvey.rule@bell.ca wrote: > > I think he ment that if things were left loose that the holes would > enlarge from wear over time. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* December 22, 2006 10:26 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration > > > Chuck > > Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they > can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular > nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. > > Rick > > On 12/21/06, *Rcaprd@aol.com* < Rcaprd@aol.com> wrote: > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, > lshutks@webtv.net writes: > > Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back > issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten > the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave > a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its > movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and > failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as > Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs > flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a > sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. > rather than east to Ks. > > Leon, > > I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much > of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more > prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't > like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it > would wallow out the bolt holes. > > That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is > still closed down from yesterday !! > > > Merry Christmas to all !! > > > Chuck G. > > NX770CG > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > * > > > -- > > Rick Holland > > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.kitlog.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > * * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:37 AM PST US From: Mike Luther Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Lacing Hello everyone: Merry Christmas !! Anchorage is usually a beautiful ,snowy place, this time of year. I am using the Poly-Fiber system for covering my Piet. I read the Poly-Fiber book, watched the video and worked through the practice fabric frame. I have laced three ribs, so far , and am not having any technical problems. Any tips or helpful suggestions to speeeeeeed up this process would be appreciated. Thanks, ahead of time , for any good ideas. Mike Luther ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:03 AM PST US From: Mike Luther Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine selection questions There always seems to be a potential for lively discussion when engine selection is mentioned. I have never heard anything bad said about taper hub as opposed to flanged hub. The 90 seems to have a good reputation for durability, but I did not see many for sale when I was looking. C-85 was recommended to me because it was more available and less expensive, when I was looking, 5 years ago. O-200 engines have new replacement part$ available and the Marvel carb has a good reputation. Mike Luther ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack T. Textor" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine selection questions > Merry Christmas All! > > I'm starting to look for a mid-time 0-200, or possibly C-85 or 90. > Should I be looking for the F (flanged hub) designation? Are there > other things I should be considering? > > Thanks, > > Jack > > www.textors.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Lacing From: Hans Vander Voort Mike Stand the wing on its leading edge, about 2 feet up from the ground Make 12 needles, using welding rod (flat one end with hole, sharp the other) And do all the ribs at the same time, saves time walking around the wing for every stich. Even faster get a stich buddy, saves the walking altogether Have a merry christmas Hans ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Gypsy Makes Aviation Week & Space Technology From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" 2006 Art & Photography Issue (just came out) pages 84 AND 85. Honorable Mention: Paul Glenshaw Silver Spring, MD "Pietenpol flies over Xenia, Ohio" (pronounced Zeen-yah) Photo shows Frank Pavliga's Pietnepol in an air-to-air photo from a quartering-trail view off his starboard side roughly 500 feet agl over farmland in very hazy, sunless, daytime conditions. Very nice photo. I would have never seen this if we were not subscribed to AvWeek here at work and if you go to their web site you have to subscribe to look at the photos. Perhaps your local library carries Aviation Week if you'd like to see this one. December 18/25, 2006 Issue Mike C. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:33 PM PST US From: lshutks@webtv.net (Leon Stefan) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vibration Ed" Thanks for the reminder on the plans note. I'd forgot it was there. Rick> That coat hangar antenna came factory installed from Detroit! I'd always thought it was a Michigan thing. Leon S. Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:07 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. Hi Guys, I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes for the Piet/Corvair combination. Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- 1 Size of prop 2 Static RPM 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm 4 Full throttle speed and rpm 5 Empty weight of aircraft I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive pitch angles and Wooden Props? Thanks Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 6:45 PM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:19 PM PST US From: KMHeide Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. Peter, I would go a few steps further...What about Warp Drive (ground adjustable) three blade and/or two blade props for Pietenpol use? Any information on that manufacturer's prop and Pietenpols? Peter W Johnson wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes for the Piet/Corvair combination. Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- 1 Size of prop 2 Static RPM 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm 4 Full throttle speed and rpm 5 Empty weight of aircraft I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive pitch angles and Wooden Props? Thanks Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 6:45 PM __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:19 PM PST US From: "Rick Holland" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. William Wynne is the Corvair guru, and he had a Piet/Corvair. You can search his open email list for info on this. http://www.flycorvair.com/ On 12/22/06, Peter W Johnson wrote: > > vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> > > Hi Guys, > > I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes > for > the Piet/Corvair combination. > > Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- > > 1 Size of prop > 2 Static RPM > 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm > 4 Full throttle speed and rpm > 5 Empty weight of aircraft > > I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I > make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. > > Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive > pitch > angles and Wooden Props? > > Thanks > > Peter > Wonthaggi, Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -- > 6:45 PM > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:30 PM PST US From: Mike Luther Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Lacing Hans: Thanks for the information, especially the part about the welding rod needles. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Vander Voort Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Lacing > > Mike > > Stand the wing on its leading edge, about 2 feet up from the ground > > Make 12 needles, using welding rod (flat one end with hole, sharp the > other) > > And do all the ribs at the same time, saves time walking around > the wing > for every stich. > > Even faster get a stich buddy, saves the walking altogether > > Have a merry christmas > > Hans > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:56 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration In a message dated 12/22/2006 9:28:31 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Chuck Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. Rick The only place castle nuts are required is where there is a movable joint. I can only be sure, in time, the holes will elongate if the bolts are loose enough to allow movement, unless there is alowance for routine lubircation. I used locking nuts, and cinched them up with about 30 lbs of torque. The note in the plans has to do with 1020 steel, not 4130. Not sure if that makes a difference, but 4130 certainly has more tensile strength. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:13 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Lacing In a message dated 12/22/2006 11:58:58 AM Central Standard Time, hans.vander.voort@alfalaval.com writes: Mike Stand the wing on its leading edge, about 2 feet up from the ground Make 12 needles, using welding rod (flat one end with hole, sharp the other) And do all the ribs at the same time, saves time walking around the wing for every stich. Even faster get a stich buddy, saves the walking altogether Have a merry christmas Hans That's exactly how I did it, but I only had 5 needles. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:41 PM PST US From: Rcaprd@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration In a message dated 12/22/2006 9:07:15 AM Central Standard Time, flyboy_120@hotmail.com writes: There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a great holiday season.....Ed G. I'm keeping my lower struts tight. There's a thing called 'Modules of Elasticity', which means the metal will return to it's original dimension, as long as it does not exceed it's Modules of Elasticity. From what I understand, Steel will NOT fatigue, as long as it is not bent beyond it's Modules of Elasticity. Aluminum is a whole different animal. It will eventually fatigue, even if it does not exceed it's modules of elasticity. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:53 PM PST US From: Javier Cruz Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. Hi again Piets, sorry i forget something that can be usefull On the first runnings, i have problems whit the mixture control (maybe the altitud here) i was using a lever for adjust it (like yours Peter), i change it for a Vernier mixturecontrol and the engine perform much better, the mixture needs a fine adjust and i think that whit the lever it's very hard to get a good mixture.. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:00 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. Javier My mixture control on the NAS31A has been blanked off. Bit the same as hard wiring the lever to the rich position. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Javier Cruz Sent: Saturday, 23 December 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. Hi again Piets, sorry i forget something that can be usefull On the first runnings, i have problems whit the mixture control (maybe the altitud here) i was using a lever for adjust it (like yours Peter), i change it for a Vernier mixturecontrol and the engine perform much better, the mixture needs a fine adjust and i think that whit the lever it's very hard to get a good mixture.. -- 3:22 PM -- 3:22 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.